Do you own your body?

[stickygirl]

Nothing more narcissistic than an ectopic pregnancy and sepsis... vanity, vanity

 

[RandyRebecca]

The majority of men who are against abortion think of it as a control issue. It is simply a matter of ego that a woman can undo what they believe they did. And they don't like that.

Tough luck for those anti-choice conservatives in the internet age. Anyone who is ignorant about something doesn't have to stay that way for long.

What I find funny is that a lot of people don't seem to realize that pro-choice people don't force their views on anyone. We basically say "Have an abortion if you want one, or else don't".

People can be anti-abortion morally, and pro-choice legally, and that used to be how the Republican Party viewed it before Reagan was close to being president. The attitude of the Republicans back then was "Abortion is a matter between the woman and her doctor, and has nothing to do with government". Since the evangelical crazies took over so much in the Republican base, the anti-choice fanatics say "We are against abortion, and we don't care if you disagree with our opinions, but you aren't having the legal right to abortion either", so the anti-choice people are basically forcing their views on people who disagree with those views. Pro-choice people never force pro-abortion views on people who are morally against abortion.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Every pro life person I know, in and out of my family, thinks the same.

People like adrina try to claim it's about controlling women's bodies, but that isn't the case at all. It's a belief about human life and how abortion is killing it. Pro abortion people like her are just coming at it from their narcissistic point of view and trying to make it solely about them.

Do you have the same views about life when it comes to US military warmongering with their genocidal friends Israel?

Or how about Americans at home suffering in financial poverty, living from paycheck to paycheck, or worse?

I'm honestly sick of anti-choice crazies going on about the sanctity of life for unborn babies, and not giving a damn about children's, or people's, financial wellbeing once they out of the uterus.

 

[adrina]

Tough luck for those anti-choice conservatives in the internet age. Anyone who is ignorant about something doesn't have to stay that way for long.

What I find funny is that a lot of people don't seem to realize that pro-choice people don't force their views on anyone. We basically say "Have an abortion if you want one, or else don't".

People can be anti-abortion morally, and pro-choice legally, and that used to be how the Republican Party viewed it before Reagan was close to being president. The attitude of the Republicans back then was "Abortion is a matter between the woman and her doctor, and has nothing to do with government". Since the evangelical crazies took over so much in the Republican base, the anti-choice fanatics say "We are against abortion, and we don't care if you disagree with our opinions, but you aren't having the legal right to abortion either", so the anti-choice people are basically forcing their views on people who disagree with those views. Pro-choice people never force pro-abortion views on people who are morally against abortion.

They don't care about the truth. They care about the control. They use hysteria and hyperbole to get that control.

Don't ever expect it to be about logic.

Men don't like that it is the woman's role to control pregnancy. They think it forces them into submission to support a child. (We won't even talk about the male aversion to birth control, equal pay, access to health care and social supports that would free them from such burdens. Heh.)

So they want control. So they won't be forced to abide by any woman's decision - after they made theirs to lose control of their sperm.

 

[adrina]

 

[BrandNewKelly]

Rick owns my body

 

[butters]

Rick owns my body

*sigh*
the playground is thataway->

 

[TastySuckToy]

Men don't like that it is the woman's role to control pregnancy. They think it forces them into submission to support a child.

That's actually the case and enforced by government through laws for things like child support payments. Men can actually go to jail for not making them, and proof of actually being the biological father isn't even necessary.

So they want control. So they won't be forced to abide by any woman's decision - after they made theirs to lose control of their sperm.

This just demonstrates your hypocrisy and dishonesty, where you champion women's right to have zero responsibility for children they don't want, while the government will enforce such responsibilities on men.

Your excuse effectively being "men made their choice when they had sex", but applying the exact same standard to women is a monstrous violation of their rights according to you.

 

[SevMax2]

That's actually the case and enforced by government through laws for things like child support payments. Men can actually go to jail for not making them, and proof of actually being the biological father isn't even necessary.

This just demonstrates your hypocrisy and dishonesty, where you champion women's right to have zero responsibility for children they don't want, while the government will enforce such responsibilities on men.

Your excuse effectively being "men made their choice when they had sex", but applying the exact same standard to women is a monstrous violation of their rights according to you.

Paternity fraud is certainly wicked and a form of financial scam that should be prevented and punished, but that is no reason to prosecute women and medical staff over abortion.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Paternity fraud is certainly wicked and a form of financial scam that should be prevented and punished, but that is no reason to prosecute women and medical staff over abortion.

My point is that if men are expected to accept their choice of having sex means they have to accept the responsibility of parenthood (even if only financial), then it is entirely fair to apply the same standard to women, especially if one asserts men and women should be treated as equals.

 

[Bn2f]

That's actually the case and enforced by government through laws for things like child support payments. Men can actually go to jail for not making them, and proof of actually being the biological father isn't even necessary.

This just demonstrates your hypocrisy and dishonesty, where you champion women's right to have zero responsibility for children they don't want, while the government will enforce such responsibilities on men.

Your excuse effectively being "men made their choice when they had sex", but applying the exact same standard to women is a monstrous violation of their rights according to you.

Uh, yeeeaaaaah
When you post crap like this trying to equivocate paternity with bodily autonomy one easily gets why women telling men to STFU are right.

 

[Bn2f]

My point is that if men are expected to accept their choice of having sex means they have to accept the responsibility of parenthood (even if only financial), then it is entirely fair to apply the same standard to women, especially if one asserts men and women should be treated as equals.

I feel for you.
I mean it hurts me sitting here reading your stupid. It must be terribly debilitating for you to suffer in your own skin.

Here, I’ll make it simple for even you to understand: Paternity payments can go both ways. Ask Britney Spears about that.
Abortion does not.

 

[adrina]

Fathers, brothers, husbands, boyfriends across the country are choosing Trump over their daughters, sisters, wives and girlfriends.

Trump is more important than women to them.

 

[MajorRewrite]

 

[TastySuckToy]

Fathers, brothers, husbands, boyfriends across the country are choosing Trump over their daughters, sisters, wives and girlfriends.

As usual, you pretend one group's opinion doesn't count:

PS: the group you're conveniently ignoring is the darker blue one.

 

[adrina]

 

[RobDownSouth]

As usual, you pretend one group's opinion doesn't count:
View attachment 2405648
PS: the group you're conveniently ignoring is the darker blue one.

Hey I gotta Vox graph too!
https://i.imgur.com/WOVB84M.png
and unlike you, I'm man enough to link to my source! LINK

 

[Lance_Castro]

They should come up with a way to remove a baby without killing it.

That way, the abandoned embryo could go full term in a pod and sue.

 

[SimonDoom]

No society has ever believed or abided by a philosophy or legal system based on the idea you have unlimited absolute control or ownership over your body. We limit the way humans "own" their bodies in countless ways--what they say, where they can go, what medicinal drugs they can take, medical procedures they can choose, cosmetic medical procedures, recreational drugs they can ingest, how they use their labor and the fruits of their brain, whom they can marry, whether they can have sex for money, etc., etc. People all across the political spectrum, except the most extreme libertarians, who are a tiny minority of the population, have advocated limits on people's "ownership" of their bodies since the beginning of time.

I'm fairly far toward the end of the spectrum that says you should be able to do what you want with a body, and that includes a woman's right to choose, which is why I am pro-choice, but am willing to consider the authority of states to regulate late-term abortions so long as they do not unduly interfere with a woman's safety or considerations like the non-survivability of the fetus after birth.

I think it's not logically or philosophically sound simply to deny that there is any legitimate interest other than the woman's. To keep saying "No, it's all about the woman's right," is not to make an argument, it's just making an assertion and refusing to deal with the opposing argument. You're basically just saying, "This is how I feel. Neeners." And there's a bit of grandiosity in the statement, too, because it doesn't recognize that most people think there should be at least some regulation on abortion at a certain point, and the liberal majority of the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade back in 1973 recognized that at a certain point in the pregnancy the fetus acquires a "life interest" that the state has a legitimate interest in protecting if it wants to.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Fathers, brothers, husbands, boyfriends across the country are choosing Trump over their daughters, sisters, wives and girlfriends.

Trump is more important than women to them.

Trump did better with women of all races in 2020 (when he lost) compared to 2016 (when he won).

White women:
2016: 43% for Clinton, 52% for Trump
2020: 44% for Biden, 55% for Trump

Black women:
2016: 94% for Clinton, 4% for Trump
2020: 90% for Biden, 9% for Trump

Latina women:
2016: 68% for Clinton, 26% for Trump
2020: 69% for Biden, 30% for Trump

In fact, the only gender racial group that backed Trump more in 2016 than in 2020 was white men, i.e. 31% for Clinton and 62% for Trump in 2016, and 38% for Biden and 61% for Trump in 2020.

Let's see what the stats in 2024 show next month in comparison to the above.

 

[ll74]

Trump did better with women of all races in 2020 (when he lost) compared to 2016 (when he won).

White women:
2016: 43% for Clinton, 52% for Trump
2020: 44% for Biden, 55% for Trump

Black women:
2016: 94% for Clinton, 4% for Trump
2020: 90% for Biden, 9% for Trump

Latina women:
2016: 68% for Clinton, 26% for Trump
2020: 69% for Biden, 30% for Trump

Let's see what the stats in 2024 show next month in comparison to the above.

"Grab em by the pussy"

Women love it

 

[adrina]

Trump did better with women of all races in 2020 (when he lost) compared to 2016 (when he won).

White women:
2016: 43% for Clinton, 52% for Trump
2020: 44% for Biden, 55% for Trump

Black women:
2016: 94% for Clinton, 4% for Trump
2020: 90% for Biden, 9% for Trump

Latina women:
2016: 68% for Clinton, 26% for Trump
2020: 69% for Biden, 30% for Trump

In fact, the only gender racial group that backed Trump more in 2016 than in 2020 was white men, i.e. 31% for Clinton and 62% for Trump in 2016, and 38% for Biden and 61% for Trump in 2020.

Let's see what the stats in 2024 show next month in comparison to the above.

Your figures are off for the first group so I know you're going by exit polling. There was actually only a 2% differential for Trump/Clinton rather than 9%.

The reality is that men majority went for Trump in 2016 and 2018. White men by a staggering margin.

For the anti-abortion laws, the overwhelming vast majority of them were sponsored by, voted on and signed into law by men.

Women have been taught misogyny too. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[butters]

Florida threatens to criminally charge TV stations airing abortion rights ad

Florida’s health department threatened criminal charges for television stations that run a political ad calling for the repeal of the state’s six-week abortion ban, one of the nation’s strictest.

At least two stations received cease-and-desist letters Thursday written by John Wilson, general counsel from the Florida Department of Health, demanding they pull the advertisement.

Wilson wrote that running the 30-second spot was a violation of Florida’s “sanitary nuisance” law, which is commonly used to charge people with overflowing septic tanks or unclean slaughterhouses. He ordered the stations to remove the ads within 24 hours or open themselves up to a second-degree misdemeanor charge, which in Florida carries a sentence of imprisonment up to 60 days and a fine up to $500.

In the ad, Caroline Williams describes how Florida’s current abortion ban would have put her in an early grave if it had been enacted a couple of years ago.

“Doctors knew that if I did not end my pregnancy, I would lose my baby, I would lose my life and my daughter would lose her mom. Florida has now banned abortion, even in cases like mine,” she says in the ad.

She had stage-4 cancer, a brain tumor which was being 'supercharged' by her pregnancy. She didn't have enough time to grow the fetus to where it could be reliably delivered before dying, and without losing her own life. Her choice was between her second expected child and more time, via treatment, with her husband and their living child. Everyone agreed that an abortion was the best path forward.

 

[SevMax2]

The most fascinating aspect of the 2016 figures that I recall was that Hillary won both married and unmarried women...and single men. Trump just won married men. You can interpret that any way that you like. Speaking of myself as a married man, who was also married back then (I'm approaching my seventeenth anniversary, which is on November 3rd), and who has voted for the Democratic opponent both times that Trump was on the ballot in the past, I'm not sure how that exactly works. Then again, my wife doesn't vote, has never voted, and I have voted in every Presidential election where I could so far, and all but two of the mid-terms (both failures caused by red tape caused by moves). So, yeah, I'd have to get a focus group of the married men who voted for Trump back then to find out why (resentment against their wives, whether valid or not?...or married men are just more given to traditional religion, perhaps?).

 

[Bn2f]

So, yeah, I'd have to get a focus group of the married men who voted for Trump back then to find out why.

Just my lil opinion here:

1. The demographics of our population is changing and it’s projected that 2050 will be the end of whites in America being the majority. There’s no subtlety to trump - his appeal registered with those who claim to love American principles on equality but fear actually making attempts to share. He convinced them that this was their last and best chance to secure their supremacy.

2. The historic election of America’s first black president convinced many good Americans into giving ourselves a pat on the back that then turned into complacency. Despite the warning signs blaring right there in front of our faces, it led many of us to underestimate toxic white male privilege and/or the greed for power of the Republican Party which is invariably much stronger than any love reserved for wife, daughters, or mother.