djrip
Oneirographer
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- Apr 28, 2015
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- 1,857
The power of incest!
The Milestone thread...Brag here.
- Thread starter lovecraft68
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Devinter
The Dreamweaver
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- Jul 18, 2023
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- 893
Read it. Really good. The plot greatly reminded me of my Summer Lovin' story's first draft, actually! ( My Sweet Melody ) - Also about a pair of twins in a tent. Yours delivered exceptionally well for being a mere 1,5k words though. You write something like that for the Winter contest - just a bit longer - and I think you might win it. Food for thought!
EDIT: Also - a tip - use all 10 tags! It really helps people find your story once it falls off of the front pages. Even if they end up similar to other tags, still throw them in there!
SimonDoom
Kink Lord
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- Apr 9, 2015
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- 19,109
Dirty old men are all the rage, these days.
StillStunned
Scruffy word herder
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- Jun 4, 2023
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- 8,989
Thanks! I think the joking about King Arthur's Beard is probably what makes it work.
I'm not sure about the Winter contest. I want to finish The Rivals (chapter 5 is stubbornly refusing to work), and then the Pink Orchid.
But maybe I'll find some inspiration, who knows!
I'll check out your story in the meantime.
dmallord
Humble Hobbit
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- Jun 15, 2020
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- 4,672
Bragging rights are what you want them to be. Sure, add them in and smile about the notoriety among Lit readers!
Devinter
The Dreamweaver
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- Jul 18, 2023
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I've surpassed 250 followers! I know this number is quite insignificant to many of you old-timers around the site, but I feel like I got there much faster than I had expected, having only started writing in July of this year. Whilst I do not care much for outside approval, and ratings and whatnot doesn't really influence what type of stories I will write, it of course feels nice that there are individuals out there that appreciate my work. Hopefully it means that I am growing as a writer, and that my English is only getting better and better! (Hoping to publish non-erotic full-length novel in English within the next year or two!)
KeithD
Virgin
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- Jan 14, 2012
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Congrats. It would be nice if each one showed up for new stories and voted on them.
Devinter
The Dreamweaver
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Absolutely. And more comments would be lovely. Sometimes I put a lot of effort into trying a new style of approach to a story, and I have no idea if the ratings are going up or down because the readers like or dislike that writing style, or if they care much more about how sexually stimulating the story was, or merely that it included a specific kink that they loved and all else was actually quite irrelevant..
EroticCupcake
Just Tryin' to Write
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2022
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- 182
Absolutely. And more comments would be lovely. Sometimes I put a lot of effort into trying a new style of approach to a story, and I have no idea if the ratings are going up or down because the readers like or dislike that writing style, or if they care much more about how sexually stimulating the story was, or merely that it included a specific kink that they loved and all else was actually quite irrelevant..
I've noticed that chapters I've published that are high in conflict score worse than happy go lucky chapters, but they also generate more comments. This "makes sense" to me. I don't mind the worse score as long as I have a sense of why.
pink_silk_glove
Literate Smutress
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- Feb 6, 2018
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- 3,629
Literally getting lucky is the essence behind most male fantasy.
FifthEstate
California Lover
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- Feb 27, 2018
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- 541
I wish I could write that fast. I’m lucky to write one story of your 9-15k avg. in three months!
EroticCupcake
Just Tryin' to Write
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- Jan 19, 2022
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- 182
This may explain why I'm a writer. I don't feel that at all, in my actual life or in my fantasies.
pink_silk_glove
Literate Smutress
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- Feb 6, 2018
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Think about it, it's true. You can use the same plot over and over and just substitute one kink for another.
If the kink is mature ... some 60 year old guy is in his back yard trimming the hedges when the cute blonde 19 year old neighbor gives him the flirty eye, then jumps the fence (since she's probably a gymnast/cheerleader) and pushes him down behind the bushes and shags him. Through it all the guy says "What are you doing? This is wrong! My wife! Your parents!" but does nothing to stop her since he's always wanted to fuck the neighbor's young hot daughter yet has never acted on it, but she just comes over to make his lucky day anyway despite the fact that he does absolutely nothing to try turn her on.
Or the other way ... some 18 year old geek loser (who happens to have a strapping physique with a huge cock) is in his back yard cleaning the swimming pool when the 50 year old milf Mom of his best friend next door happens to be gardening in a low cut top and short skirt. He waves and she comes over, pushes him into the jacuzzi and climbs aboard for a hot tub romp. Through it all the geek loser says "What are you doing? This is wrong! You're my best friend's Mom!" but does nothing to stop her since he's always wanted to fuck Mrs Daniels yet has never acted on it, but she just comes around to make his lucky day anyway despite the fact that he does absolutely nothing to try to turn her on.
If the kink is incest ... some dude sits on the couch watching the game when his sister suddenly walks into the room stark naked, yanks down his pants and mounts on. Through it all he says "What are you doing? This is wrong! You're my sister!" but does nothing to stop her since he's always wanted to fuck his sister yet has never acted on it, but she just comes down to make his lucky day anyway despite the fact that he does absolutely nothing to try turn her on.
If the kink is cheating ... some married professional is home alone when his neighbor's wife that he has known for years and has always been 'innocently flirty' with drops by to borrow a cup of sugar and when he leads her into the kitchen she climbs him like a honey-glazed jungle gym. Through it all the guy says "What are you doing? This is wrong! We're both married!" but does nothing to stop her since he's always wanted to fuck his neighbor's wife yet has never acted on it, but she just drops by to make his lucky day anyway despite the fact that he does absolutely nothing to try turn her on.
If the kink is exhibition ... some guy has the misfortune of being stuck packed in the backseat of the car with the hottie that he's been crushing on, so close that she has to sit in his lap, while they and two more friends in the front seat head off on a road trip. Then suddenly she starts undoing his pants and jerking him off, eventually she straddles him for a fuck (girl on top is extremely popular in these stories) while the two in front very obviously watch all the hanky-panky going on with the use of the rear view mirror. Through it all he whispers "What are you doing? This is wrong! We're not alone!" but does nothing to stop her since he's always wanted to fuck the hottie that he's been crushing on but now reveals herself to be a total skank yet has never acted on it, but she just takes matters into her own hands to make his lucky day anyway despite the fact that he does absolutely nothing to try turn her on.
Shall I go on?
Sure there are many other fantasies, but this one is easily the most rampant out there in the litverse ... and it's boring as fuck.
EroticCupcake
Just Tryin' to Write
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- Jan 19, 2022
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- 182
You may be correct in an 80/20 kind of way, but it doesn't bother me. I'm still "new" at this, but everything I've written so far is the opposite, and readers seem encouraging. I can tell you don't want to be a mindless stroke writer. Great! Why the anger?
If 99% of the market is a specific thing, and you can supply the 1% that isn't available... isn't that good? I received below comment on a story. I suspect you've received similar feedback.
Your comment did cause me to question "what is wrong with me." I literally can't find a fantasy where I have sex with a stranger without understanding backstory and consequences. It's possible I grew up in a world where sex was dangerous in terms of STD's and then traveled so much that physical safety became an issue (if this beautiful person is coming on to you and you don't know why, it is dangerous) that it warped my brain. Seeing the world like this may not help me get view, but I think it makes me either a better writer or a at least a unique voice. Either way I'll lean in to it.
theWollstonecraftWoman
Virgin
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- Sep 13, 2022
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Two of my stories still have red Hs! I'm thrilled.
pink_silk_glove
Literate Smutress
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- Feb 6, 2018
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There's no anger. Although I do have a disdain for these plots personally (and I'm hardly the only one), it always amazes me just how many there are. I might judge that they are 'bad' but I don't judge that they are 'wrong' (although I might if this were a paywalled site). I accept lit for what it is - essentially a place where all are welcome to attend a sports day meet where everyone gets a participation ribbon. The proliferation of these plots is truly astounding. And coupling this with my experiences in chat (this exact fantasy is rampant there too), this fantasy is literally what the majority of men (at least men clicking porn online) are looking for. This is merely an observation, which I also find a rather humorous one. Hence I shared this observation in what I felt was a humorous way. I guess no one got the joke.
Now everyone here probably knows my stance that the scores are meaningless. I don't care about them, but almost everyone else here does, at least in some small way. So I'll also share with you that the majority of these poorly plotted pieces ... have Red Hs. So if you care about scores in any way, you might want to listen.
If you want a higher score, then at some point you're going to have to give the audience a little something more of what they are looking for. A few weeks back we had a very hotly debated thread where one of the writers here was venting that their 'brilliant' stories containing elements and themes wildly different than the norm were getting poor scores, and the writer was freaking out livid that the readership was not recognizing their brilliance and even changing their ideals to match their own. This writer literally said the readership had an obligation to actually convert their ideals and their beliefs. This writer was literally insisting that they change their minds and attitudes to conform with the author's. I can't state enough just how arrogant it all was. We're talking about attitudes and themes that heavily violated lit rules. And when the masses didn't play ball and the site rejected several of the pieces, this writer threw a tantrum here in AH. And what did the AH tell this writer? We told them that a writer has to have some sort of understanding of the audience and be willing to engage them halfway, or quarter way, or at least take a step towards them.
So for all those here who want to improve the score or want a broader appeal. Here is an understanding of the audience. Most of us agree that the majority (perhaps even the vast majority) of readers are men - even in lesbian. Well, the most common element in male fantasy is: literally getting lucky. I'm not saying that anyone should go write one of these crappy plots with utterly dull characters (speaking as a woman myself, the men in these stories are especially completely and thoroughly unsexy), but if you're looking to broaden your audience or your appeal, understand that the number one thing the audience wants is a guy getting lucky. You don't have to give them that, but if you want to take a step towards that audience at least you know which way to step.
And you even say 'in an 80/20' kind of way. Of course it is. Absolutely there are readers out there who want strong plot, deep characters, imaginative worlds, tension and strife, emotional roller coasters. Absolutely they appreciate good prose, clever dialogue, nuance, immersive details. And if you write that kind of stuff, sooner or later they will find you. But they are the minority. 80/20 as you say, or 65/35, or whatever ratio that you really feel that it is, the bigger number are guys wanting to stroke to women who make their day.
If you write good stuff and get good scores, great! That niche audience has found you. If you write good stuff and get low scores, don't complain. There are two remedies: 1) be patient, keep writing good stuff that you believe in and raise your profile so that you audience can find you or 2) start pandering to the audience at least in some way. Even though I may personally roll my eyes at method 2, neither way is wrong.
Why do people get upset with my assertions? I have a pretty strong idea why but I don't need to voice it. I don't need to poke the bears. Bestiality is against lit rules anyways.
MediocreAuthor
You can call me "M"
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2022
- Posts
- 1,530
I'd argue that getting lucky is the essence of virtually all fantasy (erotic, or not) regardless of gender.
Hell, luck plays a huge part into the hero's journey.
Think about it, if a main character goes out fiercely seeking anything (especially things like glory, sex, or wealth) we call it hubris, and we're less likely to side with them.
But of they aren't seeking these things, and yet luckily the opportunity falls in their lap, then we want them to make the best of this opportunity that they luckily were given.
Find me a story that doesn't involve the main characters getting lucky or having good fortune at a critical time.
I'm sure they exist, but off the top of my head, I couldn't think of any.
"Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine."
- Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca (how fortunate
)
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 45,657
The strokers don't bother me because TBH my expectations when I came here was that would be the majority of the site and I didn't know that my stories which have some depth and slow burn would be welcome. I quickly found out there is an audience for that as well, so don't really worry about what the readers want and the writers write. Its a vast site with varied tastes.There's no anger. Although I do have a disdain for these plots personally (and I'm hardly the only one), it always amazes me just how many there are. I might judge that they are 'bad' but I don't judge that they are 'wrong' (although I might if this were a paywalled site). I accept lit for what it is - essentially a place where all are welcome to attend a sports day meet where everyone gets a participation ribbon. The proliferation of these plots is truly astounding. And coupling this with my experiences in chat (this exact fantasy is rampant there too), this fantasy is literally what the majority of men (at least men clicking porn online) are looking for. This is merely an observation, which I also find a rather humorous one. Hence I shared this observation in what I felt was a humorous way. I guess no one got the joke.
Now everyone here probably knows my stance that the scores are meaningless. I don't care about them, but almost everyone else here does, at least in some small way. So I'll also share with you that the majority of these poorly plotted pieces ... have Red Hs. So if you care about scores in any way, you might want to listen.
If you want a higher score, then at some point you're going to have to give the audience a little something more of what they are looking for. A few weeks back we had a very hotly debated thread where one of the writers here was venting that their 'brilliant' stories containing elements and themes wildly different than the norm were getting poor scores, and the writer was freaking out livid that the readership was not recognizing their brilliance and even changing their ideals to match their own. This writer literally said the readership had an obligation to actually convert their ideals and their beliefs. This writer was literally insisting that they change their minds and attitudes to conform with the author's. I can't state enough just how arrogant it all was. We're talking about attitudes and themes that heavily violated lit rules. And when the masses didn't play ball and the site rejected several of the pieces, this writer threw a tantrum here in AH. And what did the AH tell this writer? We told them that a writer has to have some sort of understanding of the audience and be willing to engage them halfway, or quarter way, or at least take a step towards them.
So for all those here who want to improve the score or want a broader appeal. Here is an understanding of the audience. Most of us agree that the majority (perhaps even the vast majority) of readers are men - even in lesbian. Well, the most common element in male fantasy is: literally getting lucky. I'm not saying that anyone should go write one of these crappy plots with utterly dull characters (speaking as a woman myself, the men in these stories are especially completely and thoroughly unsexy), but if you're looking to broaden your audience or your appeal, understand that the number one thing the audience wants is a guy getting lucky. You don't have to give them that, but if you want to take a step towards that audience at least you know which way to step.
And you even say 'in an 80/20' kind of way. Of course it is. Absolutely there are readers out there who want strong plot, deep characters, imaginative worlds, tension and strife, emotional roller coasters. Absolutely they appreciate good prose, clever dialogue, nuance, immersive details. And if you write that kind of stuff, sooner or later they will find you. But they are the minority. 80/20 as you say, or 65/35, or whatever ratio that you really feel that it is, the bigger number are guys wanting to stroke to women who make their day.
If you write good stuff and get good scores, great! That niche audience has found you. If you write good stuff and get low scores, don't complain. There are two remedies: 1) be patient, keep writing good stuff that you believe in and raise your profile so that you audience can find you or 2) start pandering to the audience at least in some way. Even though I may personally roll my eyes at method 2, neither way is wrong.
Why do people get upset with my assertions? I have a pretty strong idea why but I don't need to voice it. I don't need to poke the bears. Bestiality is against lit rules anyways.
But I admit that when I see a title that is so porno it makes your eyes roll and see it way up on a top list (Look at some of Silkstockinglovers titles and she is far and away the most popular writer on the site) or the ridiculous obsession within the I/T category with Mom on the son's lap stories(one of the most unrealistic and laziest tropes there is) it can be a little frustrating when you feel you're making more of an effort.
Most of my library here in my first two years was a long brother sister story that was a dark romance and one hell of a depressing train wreck. I wrote some of it for catharsis as it dealt with death, violence, abuse, addiction, mental illness etc...and poured my blood into this thing. The scores were good, but the votes? Imagine living and breathing a story, daring to write something that set the category on it s ear, nothing else like it...and getting 50 votes and 5 comments on the sites biggest category while stories like "My sister has tits!" was getting 1k votes and a 90 comments?
But I stayed with it, finished it, and wrote some different things after that and I've done well here over the years, but not because of that story and its the one I'm still most proud of. The strokers can have their penthouse letters pure insecure male fantasies(because that's what that audience is) and more power to them.
But we don't have to write them, or like them and that's all that matters.
BTW, I can't imagine the type of brain dead knuckle dragger or gross creepy stalker is in the chat forums here. Then again the AH does boast one of the forums sickest bastards so we'll always have that.
pink_silk_glove
Literate Smutress
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2018
- Posts
- 3,629
No, not the essence. Often a factor, yes. Sometimes a larger factor, sometimes not so much.
Here's another kind of cookie cutter plot, equally bad. This is super common female fantasy - the paperback romance - the harlequin.
Woman, through absolutely no fault of her own, is in a bad situation. She is a perfect damsel, denied the blissful happiness that she so rightly deserves. Her situation is caused by really bad luck, the sinister acts of a villain just as perfectly unredeemable as our damsel is perfectly innocent, or some combination of both. Our hero comes along, a perfect white knight to rescue her, but they are kept apart because "it's complicated" and these complications are caused by the meddling of the villain to create some sort of misunderstanding between our destined lovebirds. At some point the villain makes some error that exposes the truth (his own folly proving that his ways are wrong), his scheme falls and the hero swoops in to complete the rescue and we dance away to HEA.
Our heroes win with no luck on their side at all. In fact they win in spite of all bad luck and treachery around them because they are just so perfectly good and deserving. This plot is pure fantasy and is so bad that it makes me want to vomit. And there are hundreds of thousands of these out there in print.
So no, good luck is not central to every fantasy.
MediocreAuthor
You can call me "M"
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- Nov 1, 2022
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- 1,530
That sounds very lucky for our protagonists.
That said, I took a look at some other stories, and I'm actually kind of inclined to agree with you. Luck is not always a central focus in stories
Out of curiosity, I decided to use my stories as a sample, because they are the only stories that I know for certain were not written with luck in mind.
Test Subjects: A man and a woman are trapped in a sterile white room by aliens and forced to engage in sexual activity. You could maybe call this lucky for the man, because he gets mostly guilt free sex, but it comes at a hell of a cost.
Women's World: An impressionable teenage young man is convinced by an older classmate that she loves him, in order to get sex from him. You could also consider him lucky, depending on your views on sex, but he is heart broken when in the 3rd (as of yet unpublished) chapter, he learns that she did not care about him at all.
Rescuing the Fallen. I'm gonna say that luck doesn't play much of a part in this story, unless you want to relate to the villains. All of the protagonists are very unlucky, (with the exception of one FMC who gets very lucky in chapter 4... but even that is relatively short lived)
Fucky Friday: A man non-con's his wife, and when their souls magically swap bodies, she returns the favor. I don't think this story involves any luck. Not really. The sequel has a bit of luck... but still not much. And more
Eldritch Pact: A man makes a deal with a demigoddess to keep him alive, but she abuses him sexually as a result. There is a little luck near the end, but it's relatively minor, I think, and a bit of a double edged sword.
The Price of Embezzlement: A woman steals from her company, and her boss extorts her. Lucky for him, maybe depending on your viewpoint. But that's definitely not the focus.
The Understudy: A successful actor hires a reluctant struggling actress as his live in maid (among other things)
Yeah, there's not really any luck involved here.
In summation, I agree with you that luck does not play as big a part in fantasy stories as I thought, BUT these stories are very popular on the site. So readers are willing to accept stories that aren't about getting lucky. I don't know what the break down of my fans are, but the majority of my commenters and followers are male.
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
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- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 45,657
Overnight I had sale #30,000 on Smashwords
MillieDynamite
Millie'sVastExpanse
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- Jun 5, 2021
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- 9,824
That's how many sales I had on Smashwords in October. Nooo! It isn't. LOL Gradulations. 
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
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Took 12 years. I remember my first e-book went up for sale March 22nd 2011 and my first royalty payment was $13. Thought it was the best $13 I ever made.That's how many sales I had on Smashwords in October. Nooo! It isn't. LOL Gradulations.
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