Inclusivity and hair color

[stickygirl]

I heard it became the name for a group of gorillas

 

[onehitwanda]

I heard it became the name for a group of gorillas

I heard it was a name for a sort of custard.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

At its start, the whole PC culture was well meaning and reasonable, and has helped us find better ways to communicate and to avoid stigmatizing certain groups. After so many years, that same PC culture has failed to put any reasonable boundaries, so today it is enough for one to claim that something is offensive for her/him, or to present oneself as a victim, and that is considered as a valid argument in itself.

What the whole cancel-culture movement boils down to is this: "I let other people define me and that hurts my feelings, so instead of just taking responsibility for my own feelings and defining myself, I'm going to force everyone else in society to tiptoe around my feelings for me."

And of course our institutions (governments, corporations, media) love this and support it since it plays right into their strategies for controlling how we think by shaming those who don't keep their thoughts and opinions on the chosen road that is narrowing by the day. Freedom of thought and expression is a dangerous thing to them and being PC stamps that out.

Start looking after your own feelings and self esteem. By trying to force everyone else around you to look after it for you all you're doing is disempowering yourself. And there are 7 billion of us all with different emotions opinions and triggers, so it's just not practical or even possible for us all to walk around every day minding 6,999,999,999 others' feelings. It's a vain pursuit, literally pursuing the vanity of the butthurt. So just drop it already and get on with your life.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Instead 'he couldn't decide if she was dark haired given that she'd clearly shaved her flange that morning

Ah, so that is what 'flange' means. You and your slang... I feel so excluded. I demand you stop this at once, because it is insulting towards my ignorance in English slang! Be more PC!

 

[EmilyMiller]

What the whole cancel-culture movement boils down to is this: "I let other people define me and that hurts my feelings, so instead of just taking responsibility for my own feelings and defining myself, I'm going to force everyone else in society to tiptoe around my feelings for me."

And of course our institutions (governments, corporations, media) love this and support it since it plays right into their strategies for controlling how we think by shaming those who don't keep their thoughts and opinions on the chosen road that is narrowing by the day. Freedom of thought and expression is a dangerous thing to them and being PC stamps that out.

Start looking after your own feelings and self esteem. By trying to force everyone else around you to look after it for you all you're doing is disempowering yourself. And there are 7 billion of us all with different emotions opinions and triggers, so it's just not practical or even possible for us all to walk around every day minding 6,999,999,999 others' feelings. It's a vain pursuit, literally pursuing the vanity of the butthurt. So just drop it already and get on with your life.

You make an argument for moderation, not for abjuring certain obvious offensive words. I’m sure you are not arguing that historical descriptions of African Americans are OK. At least I hope not.

But - and this is my point - overreach delegitimizes worthwhile sensitivity and provides a way for bigots to write off trying to be nice to each other as cancel culture.

Em

 

[R. Richard]

Truly a fate worse than death.

If Blackpool is a fate worse than death, try South Central Los Angeles. If a person dies in South Central Los Angeles and goes to Hell, it's an upgrade. Actually, I upgraded South Central Los Angeles; I done split clean.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You make an argument for moderation, not for abjuring certain obvious offensive words. I’m sure you are not arguing that historical descriptions of African Americans are OK. At least I hope not.

But - and this is my point - overreach delegitimizes worthwhile sensitivity and provides a way for bigots to write off trying to be nice to each other as cancel culture.

Em

That is why reason and boundaries are needed in this whole process. One person claiming to be offended by something can't possibly be enough for that to be accepted right away, or for the people questioning it to be "cancelled" by the media zealots. I hope one day reason and science will be allowed into the whole process, so PC culture can start "working as intended." As someone said in another thread, what we have today is basically a minority of zealots on both sides completely ruling the discourse and bullying everyone else who doesn't agree with them. Reasonable people are staying silent mostly, out of fear of being bullied/called out by those same zealots and the media they control.

 

[AlinaX]

I use this trope a lot in my stories, for example in 'Banging Cousin Becky In Blackpool' the narrator Ian's cousin Becky is blonde as is her younger brother; his twin sister Jenny is a brunette while Ian also has brown hair; and his other cousins Katie and Sam both have red hair.

She was wondering what exactly was amusing about the amusement park when she turned a corner and her mouth fell open. "So that's why it's called the big dipper," she said.

 

[stickygirl]

That is why reason and boundaries are needed in this whole process. One person claiming to be offended by something can't possibly be enough for that to be accepted right away, or for the people questioning it to be "cancelled" by the media zealots. I hope one day reason and science will be allowed into the whole process, so PC culture can start "working as intended." As someone said in another thread, what we have today is basically a minority of zealots on both sides completely ruling the discourse and bullying everyone else who doesn't agree with them. Reasonable people are staying silent mostly, out of fear of being bullied/called out by those same zealots and the media they control.

wtf does "cancelled" mean anyway? The only people I hear use it these days are those already in power stamping their feet because not everyone agrees with them, like DeSantis. "cancelled by media zealots" what the fuck does that mean, actually? Someone has stopped reporting on a bigot being a cunt?? Sheesh - the snowflake right and their woke paranoia. How many schoolchildren has woke killed this year in the US?

 

[AlinaX]

Whining about cancel culture and overreach just makes you sound like all the other reactionary idiots out there.

I have certainly thought, "Oh, please," often enough at things that seemed like political correctness gone mad. I've even had a sensitivity reader complain about perceived racism in my writing that has left me seriously scratching my head. ("How did you read that into what I wrote?") The simple truth is that this is a big world and something that might seem inconsequential to one person might be severely triggering for another.

Throwing words like policing and censorship around doesn't help. People talk about cancel culture as if its a form of terrorism, when mostly it's just people desperately trying to be heard in a world where mainstream media platforms dickheads and ignores minorities. Very few people have been successfully cancelled by cancel culture, but a fuck-lot of people have had their voices ignored by people with actual power.

 

[djrip]

That is why reason and boundaries are needed in this whole process. One person claiming to be offended by something can't possibly be enough for that to be accepted right away, or for the people questioning it to be "cancelled" by the media zealots. I hope one day reason and science will be allowed into the whole process, so PC culture can start "working as intended." As someone said in another thread, what we have today is basically a minority of zealots on both sides completely ruling the discourse and bullying everyone else who doesn't agree with them. Reasonable people are staying silent mostly, out of fear of being bullied/called out by those same zealots and the media they control.

For me, one person being offended by something is reason enough to not say that thing *to them*, usually. I mean I won't avoid insulting Nazis because a Nazi is offended. But generally, when talking to an individual, I will tailor my speech within reason to avoid saying something I already know offends that particular person.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You make an argument for moderation, not for abjuring certain obvious offensive words. I’m sure you are not arguing that historical descriptions of African Americans are OK. At least I hope not.

But - and this is my point - overreach delegitimizes worthwhile sensitivity and provides a way for bigots to write off trying to be nice to each other as cancel culture.

Em

What I'm saying is that I don't need anyone else to tell me not to use the n-word in everyday conversation. I don't use it because I choose to respect the black people in my life. I don't need anyone to force me not to. Those who refuse to laugh at Dave Chappelle jokes are missing out. That's their choice, but they can't force me to opt out with them with their righteous PC scorn. I'm an adult. The PC crowd, not so sure about that.

 

[AlinaX]

Sounding pretty righteous there yourself.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Whining about cancel culture and overreach just makes you sound like all the other reactionary idiots out there.

I have certainly thought, "Oh, please," often enough at things that seemed like political correctness gone mad. I've even had a sensitivity reader complain about perceived racism in my writing that has left me seriously scratching my head. ("How did you read that into what I wrote?") The simple truth is that this is a big world and something that might seem inconsequential to one person might be severely triggering for another.

Throwing words like policing and censorship around doesn't help. People talk about cancel culture as if its a form of terrorism, when mostly it's just people desperately trying to be heard in a world where mainstream media platforms dickheads and ignores minorities. Very few people have been successfully cancelled by cancel culture, but a fuck-lot of people have had their voices ignored by people with actual power.

You are all, once again, talking about people who are part of those bullying minorities and not about reasonable people whose voice basically can't be heard due to the cacophony created by zealots on both sides. I am not saying censorship or anything like that. Actually, what some of those zealots are doing is censorship in a way. I am saying let common sense and first of all science rule instead. If you claim calling you a "librarian" (silly example, but I can't be bothered thinking of something better) is offensive to you, then go ahead and make some reasonable case - prove that word, which we used for centuries, is somehow offensive. If you can't prove it, then I retain my right to keep using librarian however I see fit and you throwing fits over it is just you exercising your right to throw fits and not really my concern. What I am saying is that critical thinking and reason and proof should be allowed into the whole process, instead of relying on someone's "feelings" as a measure of validity of certain claims.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Sounding pretty righteous there yourself.

Think what you want of me. It's called freedom of thought speech and expression, which I am standing up for. Even for you who disagrees with me.

Which is the opposite of PC culture movement. It's terribly hypocritical. The PCer thinks that they are a lesser person by what others think and say about them, basically they judge themselves by how others judge them. They walk around saying 'dont judge me' but then try to control how others judge them by shaming their thoughts opinions and words so that they can go on continuing to judge themselves by what others think of them. In this way, PC culture is an inherently broken concept.

 

[AlinaX]

You have no idea how much I wish for more critical thinking and scientific consciousness in discussions like these.
Also, dismissing feelings as irrelevant is utterly absurd; feelings make us human instead of machines.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Feelings contradict reason in many ways. Feelings have no place in science, as heartless as that sounds. Compassion is the only feeling that is needed and the rest should be left to science, as it is the only thing where people might eventually find common ground and reconcile.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You have no idea how much I wish for more critical thinking and scientific consciousness in discussions like these.
Also, dismissing feelings as irrelevant is utterly absurd; feelings make us human instead of machines.

Who dismissed feelings? I never did. I merely advocate that it is better for everyone, most of all yourself, if you look after your own and stop expecting others to do it for you.

 

[djrip]

You are all, once again, talking about people who are part of those bullying minorities and not about reasonable people whose voice basically can't be heard due to the cacophony created by zealots on both sides. I am not saying censorship or anything like that. Actually, what some of those zealots are doing is censorship in a way. I am saying let common sense and first of all science rule instead. If you claim calling you a "librarian" (silly example, but I can't be bothered thinking of something better) is offensive to you, then go ahead and make some reasonable case - prove that word, which we used for centuries, is somehow offensive. If you can't prove it, then I retain my right to keep using librarian however I see fit and you throwing fits over it is just you exercising your right to throw fits and not really my concern. What I am saying is that critical thinking and reason and proof should be allowed into the whole process, instead of relying on someone's "feelings" as a measure of validity of certain claims.

It's not about proof. It's about every individual deciding where the line is, for themselves, in dialog with the rest of society. The PC crowd pushes society in the direction that has lead to us not using the N word much anymore over the past 5 decades or so. It has pushed our society into accepting same sex marriage, and holding people like Weinstein a little more accountable. Does it push too hard or too far sometimes? Sure. It is made up of millions of individuals who don't all think the same about everything. Some of them are going to be more extreme than you or I. But I certainly value the direction they have moved us in over the past several decades. I, like everyone else, draw my own line. But I draw my line differently now than I did when I was a teen, and that is in large part due to the conversations I've had over the years about why certain things are offensive to certain people.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Feelings contradict reason in many ways. Feelings have no place in science, as heartless as that sounds. Compassion is the only feeling that is needed and the rest should be left to science, as it is the only thing where people might eventually find common ground and reconcile.

Feelings very much have a place in science. Science is starting to figure that out. I think you mean that in analyzing actual data, science is objective (when it's not funded by corporate agenda), and I would agree with you there.

 

[djrip]

Feelings very much have a place in science. Science is starting to figure that out. I think you mean that in analyzing actual data, science is objective (when it's not funded by corporate agenda), and I would agree with you there.

The ideal with science is objectivity. But scientists are people. There is no such thing as absolute objectivity among humans. Thus, peer review and other processes designed to attempt to somewhat mitigate bias and human fallibility.

 

[EmilyMiller]

The ideal with science is objectivity. But scientists are people. There is no such thing as absolute objectivity among humans. Thus, peer review and other processes designed to attempt to somewhat mitigate bias and human fallibility.

Are blondes allowed to be scientists - or ex-scientists at least?

Em

 

[AlinaX]

Blondes are awesome.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Are blondes allowed to be scientists - or ex-scientists at least?

Em

Assistants, maybe... But only those with glasses.

 

[onehitwanda]

Are blondes allowed to be scientists - or ex-scientists at least?

Em

are you an ex-scientist or a sex scientist? I'm asking for Science, of course.