Chaotic Coffee Klatch (tea also available)

[PlanetaryNebula]

If anyone remembers the old Golden Girls episodes, there's an epic moment when Blanche realizes that missionary makes her face look great but her boobs look awful. Truth!

I WAS THINKING OF THIS VERY EPISODE!!!!!
“Only on your back Blanche.”- Dorothy Zbornak

 

[Diosax]

I did not get the memo on the new version of the game

My bad Jordan. I was in charge of letting you know and I went to your AmPic thread to let you know but I got really distracted with your pictures and then I forgot! You can blame my adhd

but who defines decent? Decent to some is much different than decent to others. So it is an arbitrary label of the acceptable standard based on the opinions of the most influential of the masses in that locale. Which I am sure is an excellent scale for people who are represented by the masses. Not so great for the outliers. And the masses' definition of this perceived acceptable standard changes every few years. It is why heavy women are a lot less likely to be hired and earn much less than thin peers. It is why neurodivergent people have a more difficult time gaining and staying employed. Plus, I find the expectation of meeting the standard mass definition of acceptable decency causes the outliers to try to blend, but I prefer the outliers, so they become harder for me to find them.

Soo true!

Oh, I am! . I'm not upset. Doing well. I just hold firm to my boundaries

I fucking love this! Respect

So...I don't really disagree with this at all on a fundamental level. (Plus I'm really interested in the history of clothing, etc., and you can't study that much without seeing the effect of class and race and gender on clothing norms).

But on the other hand, I love wearing dresses.

And I personally think that everyone should wear what she/he/they want on their own time, and that everyone should choose professions in which the clothing norms fit well with one's own clothing desires if at all possible.

But I also think that while one may want to smash the patriarchy, and hey, who doesn't?, you have to pick your battles, and clothes signal something about you, especially when you're young and just establishing yourself as what you want to be. If I were an artist, I would not wear a business suit because that would be out of place. If I'm going to work on Wall St, I'm going to wear that suit.

I'm for practical patriarchy-smashing, and one of the things that I do is contribute both financially and with clothes to a couple of organizations that provide professional clothes for young women (mostly) who can't afford them. And then when they all get their cool jobs, we can smash the patriarchy from inside.

I'm not saying you shouldn't wear dresses. I'm saying wear what you want!

And also the main thing was the white supremacy/anti-Blackness thing

And I didn't mean to kill the thread as usual

 

[Mika1215]

I WAS THINKING OF THIS VERY EPISODE!!!!!
“Only on your back Blanche.”- Dorothy Zbornak

I love that you remember this.

Also with you on, I know that I look better in some ways that others, and I like it when I look better. It's not giving myself a hard time; it's true. Everyone looks better in some ways than others, and when you see those casual shots of beautiful people you really realize how absolutely everyone looks nicer with careful camera. Just true.

I've spent my whole life loathing pics of me because I'm genuinely not that photogenic. Some people, the camera loves. Me, no. But in the age of the selfie, I've learned to take a pic of myself that pleases me, and that also helps me just appreciate myself more, so win-win.

 

[MsNatalie99]

And also the main thing was the white supremacy/anti-Blackness thing

And I didn't mean to kill the thread as usual

It's ok. I'm only 75% the problem by those standards

 

[Diosax]

I’m not gonna lie, I feel like my comment you are quoting doesn’t apply to this response. Mostly because I’m just saying I don’t like the way I look in most clothes. I’m too self absorbed to even fathom what other people are thinking. But while I’m here I will say I agree that our appearance should not be an indication of our skills! If one is so shallow to judge based on appearance, one’s judgement is rather invalid imho.
On the flip side, looking appealing to “the patriarchy” or men in general, brings in more dick Diosa! Sure I’m delicious when you take a bite, but you don’t want to bite me if I look like ocra

I quoted it to say something I don't even remember now but when i realized it was way too many quotes I just responded as a whole.

I've never had a problem getting dick dressing thr way i do if that's what I really want
Also.not the point

It's ok. I'm only 75% the problem by those standards

I don't mean you or each of us individually.

 

[Mika1215]

I'm not saying you shouldn't wear dresses. I'm saying wear what you want!

And also the main thing was the white supremacy/anti-Blackness thing

And I didn't mean to kill the thread as usual

Well yeah, but I agree with the white or maybe male or maybe class supremacy thing.

I was joking about the dresses although I do love wearing them! But what I was really trying to say is something that I can't quite figure out how to put into words about where things start versus where things end up, and that dresses can be a way of hobbling women in 1850 (year picked at random) and a way of empowering women in 2022. Clothes can be power if you use them right.

But that probably makes no sense.

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

I love that you remember this.

Also with you on, I know that I look better in some ways that others, and I like it when I look better. It's not giving myself a hard time; it's true. Everyone looks better in some ways than others, and when you see those casual shots of beautiful people you really realize how absolutely everyone looks nicer with careful camera. Just true.

I've spent my whole life loathing pics of me because I'm genuinely not that photogenic. Some people, the camera loves. Me, no. But in the age of the selfie, I've learned to take a pic of myself that pleases me, and that also helps me just appreciate myself more, so win-win.

Same! The camera is not my friend. Remember 35mm film? 1 pic out of 48 might be worth framing. Woof.

Ummm… I pretty much know every line to every episode of the golden girls, verbatim. . Big fan

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

I was gonna respond to all these but since it's all the same topic I'm just gonna respond to them as a whole. I actually know why there are all these "rules" about what "professionalalism" is and "professional" attir

And the answer is...drum roll please... (hold on let me find a gif)

It's because of white Supremacy and anti-Blackness.

Are those of you saying we should dress a certain way and what not racist? I hope not, probably not. But you (and I and most ppl) have been raised in this culture so there is a lot of internalized racism and anti-Blackness. Are you a bad person for thinking/judging what professional attire and what not? No! But you do have a lot of internal work to do. And SO DO I!

Same things with dresses, it's all a tool of the patriarchy! That we (women) have to dress a certain way TO APPEAL TO MEN...guess what? We don't have to do any of that. My existance is not to appeal to men (or anybody)...and just like that, we have to challenge what we think professionalism looks like. Because at the end of the day, professionalism is the skills and experience necessary to complete the job. Is not what I wear, it's not my hairdo etc.

And I'll prob get some eyerolls and pushback. That's ok. You can google this. I could find an article that talks about it but google is free

no eye rolls from me. I never really thought of it that way when I trashed the standard long ago. I decided it was elitism, creating an arbitrary standard of the most influential, to represent a standard, to exclude outlying classes. However elitism, classism, racism are very intertwined. I had a hard time identifying racism when I was young, as I interpreted it as classism. I saw the income and education variances. Then when I learn I could fake my way into the elite, I labelled it "pretty girl privilege" because they were primarily men who were buying it, so that was the leg up why I could fake it and others couldn't. But then I saw women bought it too. It took a while to identify all the ways the let me blend when others couldn't and race is a big one. Certain very specific features, where just a minor physical change when I was younger, would have completely changed the outcome of my life, and race is one of them, so I believe you.

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

I quoted it to say something I don't even remember now but when i realized it was way too many quotes I just responded as a whole.

I've never had a problem getting dick dressing thr way i do if that's what I really want
Also.not the point

I don't mean you or each of us individually.

Umm… Dick is always the point . Just kidding. But you were being soooooo serious.
Also, I’ve seen you.. you could wear a potato sack and the boys would flock to ya

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

If anyone remembers the old Golden Girls episodes, there's an epic moment when Blanche realizes that missionary makes her face look great but her boobs look awful. Truth!

I know. it is impossible to find a great angle for everything. The amount of pictures and videos I've taken, I've tried them all lol.

 

[Mika1215]

Same! The camera is not my friend. Remember 35mm film? 1 pic out of 48 might be worth framing. Woof.

Ummm… I pretty much know every line to every episode of the golden girls, verbatim. . Big fan

I think there are two kinds of people, the ones who know that all the great truths in life exist somewhere in the Golden Girls and can quote verbatim, and the unenlightened.

Weirdly I look better in video than in stills. I don't mind Zoom etc really at all. But when I record lectures, there's always some random still on the front of the video because I'm too lazy to put in a proper title card, and it is invariably hideous.

 

[MsNatalie99]

I don't mean you or each of us individually.

I know. It just sucks being the villain from birth. I know you don't mean everyone, but we say men, and not most men, or many men. We say white people, and not some, not many. So there is still occasionally a sting

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

People are just people. We feed the hate machine by constantly addressing all of our superficial differences. I’m not saying racism, elitism and the like don’t exist, but I bet if you looked at the small scale daily interactions amongst the different races and classes across the globe, it would look a lot better and kinder than what the media and shit make it out to be. Our anger/arguments/protests fuel the fire. Rise above and spread the love. (Copyright PlanetaryNebula Ltd)

 

[MsNatalie99]

If only we could predict every response. I even try to rehearse phone calls I have to make and I always forget something I want to say or sound like a moron

You don't sound like a moron. Stop putting yourself down two. You're my friend and hearing people putting my friend down is very upsetting. Even more so since I can't cuss the person out without chewing out the friend I'm defending

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

I think there are two kinds of people, the ones who know that all the great truths in life exist somewhere in the Golden Girls and can quote verbatim, and the unenlightened.

Weirdly I look better in video than in stills. I don't mind Zoom etc really at all. But when I record lectures, there's always some random still on the front of the video because I'm too lazy to put in a proper title card, and it is invariably hideous.

So I take it you are enlightened!?
Funny you mentioned zoom. I did a zoom thingy once and was blown away that I didn’t break everyone’s camera!!

 

[Mika1215]

I know. It just sucks being the villain from birth. I know you don't mean everyone, but we say men, and not most men, or many men. We say white people, and not some, not many. So there is still occasionally a sting

It's the hard thing, isn't it? Because it isn't all men, and it isn't all white people, and it isn't all rich people, but at the same time, there is a systemic thing that IS, in a way, all of those things. And so we want to exclude ourselves because we're the good ones, or whatever, but the more we exclude ourselves, the more we also shrug off responsibility for changing the system.

Spoken as a pretty privileged, excessively white female from a whole New England WASP background, so...

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

You don't sound like a moron. Stop putting yourself down two. You're my friend and hearing people putting my friend down is very upsetting. Even more so since I can't cuss the person out without chewing out the friend I'm defending

You have never heard me talk in person!! You’ve only ever heard me sing happy birthday to you on vocaroo and trust me , the one I posted was like take #6.
Omg you should see me when I have a gorgeous client. Goober mode activated.
But I’m not trying to be hard on myself. Just saying I FEEL awkward sometimes

 

[Mika1215]

So I take it you are enlightened!?
Funny you mentioned zoom. I did a zoom thingy once and was blown away that I didn’t break everyone’s camera!!

Yeah although my stepdaugher is really the genius at the quoting.

Best thing with Zoom is to try like hell not to watch yourself. You probably do look better than you think. Also you can adjust the settings a bit!

 

[MsNatalie99]

Beauty isn't an angle. Being beautiful doesn't change because you got older, or you had kids, something I personally have always wished I had been able to do, and it certainly not something that can be judged by the naked eye. Some of the ugliest people I've ever met in my life, could have been on the covers of magazines.

You have never heard me talk in person!! You’ve only ever heard me sing happy birthday to you on vocaroo and trust me , the one I posted was like take #6.
Omg you should see me when I have a gorgeous client. Goober mode activated.
But I’m not trying to be hard on myself. Just saying I FEEL awkward sometimes

Feeling awkward, isn't being a moron. And an unflattering photo isn't being ugly or on attractive. Speaking from experience as someone with a penis oh, if you have a good angle, I'll still poke you at a bad one. Intelligence is subjective. You may be awkward to talk to, but you're humor still on point. You may say silly things, but you still have the ability to trip people up in conversation. I'm not trying to say that everyone is beautiful, only that those who aren't choose to be. It's all in how you carry yourself, and treat the people around you.

 

[hotoldrguy]

If only we could predict every response. I even try to rehearse phone calls I have to make and I always forget something I want to say or sound like a moron

I even do that to the extent of if I am going to a store and have to talk to someone there about what I want; I rehearse it all the way there. If there is some issue that I know will lead to a discussion, I rehearse in my mind what I am going to say IF the conversation ever comes up.

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

Yeah although my stepdaugher is really the genius at the quoting.

Best thing with Zoom is to try like hell not to watch yourself. You probably do look better than you think. Also you can adjust the settings a bit!

Ohhhh? I did not know this. I only really use it now for telehealth appts and I don’t give a shit what my doctor thinks about my on screen attractiveness

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

Beauty isn't an angle. Being beautiful doesn't change because you got older, or you had kids, something I personally have always wished I had been able to do, and it certainly not something that can be judged by the naked eye. Some of the ugliest people I've ever met in my life, could have been on the covers of magazines.

Feeling awkward, isn't being a moron. And an unflattering photo isn't being ugly or on attractive. Speaking from experience as someone with a penis oh, if you have a good angle, I'll still poke you at a bad one. Intelligence is subjective. You may be awkward to talk to, but you're humor still on point. You may say silly things, but you still have the ability to trip people up in conversation. I'm not trying to say that everyone is beautiful, only that those who aren't choose to be. It's all in how you carry yourself, and treat the people around you.

I’ve said this time and time again- you are theee wisest 25 year old I have ever met

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

It's the hard thing, isn't it? Because it isn't all men, and it isn't all white people, and it isn't all rich people, but at the same time, there is a systemic thing that IS, in a way, all of those things. And so we want to exclude ourselves because we're the good ones, or whatever, but the more we exclude ourselves, the more we also shrug off responsibility for changing the system.

Spoken as a pretty privileged, excessively white female from a whole New England WASP background, so...

Well said fellow new englander

 

[MsNatalie99]

I’ve said this time and time again- you are theee wisest 25 year old I have ever met

24... but thank you. Now stop taking shots at yourself, like there ain't at least half a dozen people who have wanked off to your photos, or laughed at your jokes.

 

[Mika1215]

Ohhhh? I did not know this. I only really use it now for telehealth appts and I don’t give a shit what my doctor thinks about my on screen attractiveness

Should you ever need to know, it's in the video settings. You can have fun and give yourself blue lipstick or a fox head, too!