"GOD"--the biggest conspiracy theory of all

[Conager]

Why is it that some of the most intellectually stunted individuals make broad, sweeping philosophical pronouncements as if it is they that stumbled across Atheism.

Penn Gillette is one of the smartest artest Atheists I know, and I can't imagine him feeling the need to make self-aggrandizing statements like these. Maybe Butters can get religion off the GB next!

I'd love to see Butters debate a Benedictine. -or anyone, really.

What a stupid bait thread.

<Dumbutters Mode>
-view post-
<insert justification for viewing post>
Oh, yeah? You posted in my bait thread therefore I win!
</end Butters> (from my lips to God's ears)

 

[hobbit.]

Maybe we can get Laurel to purge all the religious people off the GB too.

We have bonfire night here, its basically a night spent burning effigies of papists who tried to blow up the King.

With some imagination it could be enlarged to just burn all religious people though.

 

[Conager]

We have bonfire night here, its basically a night spent burning effigies of papists who tried to blow up the King.

With some imagination it could be enlarged to just burn all religious people though.

It's a thought.The coals from the political book-burning are still warm here, be little effort at all to throw on the religious tracts to stoke the flames.

 

[hobbit.]

It's a thought.The coals from the political book-burning are still warm here, be little effort at all to throw on the religious tracts to stoke the flames.

good idea. However, im still getting my head around this concept of ''do atoms exist'' (might write to the Mayor of Hiroshima for his/her view on that one.) and how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Why would angels want to sit on a pin?

 

[Conager]

Virginity. they aren't prepared to sit in the laps of amply endowed gentlemen such as <modestly> ourselves.

 

[hobbit.]

Virginity. they aren't prepared to sit in the laps of amply endowed gentlemen such as <modestly> ourselves.

an 'angel' said that to me many years ago ''should i sit on your lap and we can chat about whatever pops up'' teachers would get sacked and put on a register for that now.

Put me right off angels that kind of behaviour.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Why is it that some of the most intellectually stunted individuals make broad, sweeping philosophical pronouncements as if it is they that stumbled across Atheism.

Penn Gillette is one of the smartest artest Atheists I know, and I can't imagine him feeling the need to make self-aggrandizing statements like these. Maybe Butters can get religion off the GB next!

I'd love to see Butters debate a Benedictine. -or anyone, really.

What a stupid bait thread.

<Dumbutters Mode>
-view post-
<insert justification for viewing post>
Oh, yeah? You posted in my bait thread therefore I win!
</end Butters> (from my lips to God's ears)

You don't know Penne or butters yeah here you are.

 

[butters]

It's people like FGB who can post on religion and then still lay down what other ungodly (and un-Christlike) tripe he posts to this board that makes me abandon his form of religion. If the god he believes in doesn't do something to him for posting the inhumane crap he does, then it isn't a god I want.

yeah, pretty much had it worked out by the time i was 11

Actually, your idea that God is a conspiracy, could be a conspiracy that there is a conspiracy involving God.

The biggest loss I can conceive of is being separated from God forever.

hi, tryharder

it's not exactly my idea... it's a common enough debate out and about and can be discussed reasonably and without malice. it was a little surprising that people seemed to think i was making a clear statement about my own beliefs and, thereby, somehow telling others how they should think the whole idea of the post was to voice a way of looking at things, speak to how human nature might be at work, and invite others to extrapolate on these angles in a discussion. should have known better

thought i made my own views clear enough in the op/responses, that i have no issue with others following their own personal faith just so long as they don't feel i/others need to think the same way or use it to manipulate people in any way.

given your personal faith-choices, i understand your final statement; i do. as i said before, a roman-catholic upbringing schooled me in the indoctrinations of such religious thinking

given mine, i find that losing my own humanity...my ability to love other human beings more than a (to me) nebulous concept...would be the saddest loss. that doesn't mean i'm closed to what may be revealed in the future, or an acceptance of the knowledge there will be so many things in my own lifetime i'll NEVER get to understand/know but exist beyond my sensory capabilities. natural things. things so amazing that, whilst perfectly natural and glimpsed at (through science, through other creatures, through the amazing minds of inventors) will never be unveiled to me. but the future comes.

be well

 

[butters]

I think there is a qualitative difference between the two. One is fighting established reality. Claims there is a secrets kept from you, but even their "truths" are ultimately mundane.

The other tries to make sense of established mystery. The things we all agree are unknowable and unknown. Afterlife, the nature of good and evil, and so on.

A conspiracy theory is the theory that there is a conspiracy. It's in the name. I don't know what the God conspiracy would be in that case.

hmmn... well, where one side is the physical, the other metaphysical... let me see. For the sake of discussion, I would propose that the conspiracy of the latter is about keeping (select) groups of humans under a certain type of control; behave a certain way, accept you cannot ever understand 'god' (works in mysterious ways/is omnipotent/the alpha and the omega) or you'll never get to 'know'. Isn't that a way of keeping things from people with a 'promise' that all will be revealed once we die? Isn't it a conspiring of those wielding the power?

Isn't it, on a more basic level, a conspiracy to con our own minds into letting go of what we can't change, by requiring us to accept it as 'the will of God'? I'm aware I'm framing a lot of this in a christian-related manner but these basic tenets seem to cross religious barriers, one creed to the next. Loss, particularly through death, is probably the biggest driver of the motivation to seek solace in religious thinking. The human mind has the hardest time to imagine a cessation of its own existence. If it cannot imagine it, it's obviously difficult to imagine it for others; so it would seem a logical assumption that rather just accepting loss we try to fill in the gaps, create some sort of 'ending' a human mind can make some kind of sense out of. If that is some happy place after death, it brings comfort; let's face it, there's nothing wrong with needing comfort in our losses. But if there's the controlled thinking (religion and whatever religion used to be known by) of what this place is and how we must behave in order to attain that peace/bliss, it's absence or mirror-opposite is the stick to the former's carrot.

 

[butters]

You, her, FGB....it is a long list.

I'm apologising that my wording has you thinking this is my intent. it's entirely the opposite... a statement of a point of view, how human thinking might attribute it, and an invitation for people to discuss their own points of view. i am more than content for anyone to pursue their own beliefs, without feeling any need to justify them, so long as they hurt no others and aren't force-fed as the only 'true way' to be one of the chosen ones.

all purely for a thread devoted to a passing thought on a topic that's not unique but maybe of interest to others. it was as much to examine and clarify (to myself) my own thoughts on the topic.

 

[butters]

You don't know Penne or butters yeah here you are.

when someone like him or harpy call me stupid or dumb (or any of their other, more vitriolic bull), i simply consider the source... and dismiss it as worthless.

 

[butters]

belief systems seem largely based upon the common concepts of:

• you are insignificant but, if you adhere to how we say you should behave your status will be elevated...once you're dead.
  
• wanna be in my gang? we're smart enough to lnow how to be more important than everyone else... whom we can pity but if they won't join in, sucks to be them
  
• don't think for yourself, we've got it all worked out; we'll tell you bits but you can't expect us to tell you everything because you won't understand it... we have priests/shaman/visionaries who graciously stand between you and 'god', and if we use languages you don't understand or write letters you are kept from learning how to read or use symbolism you are not elevated enough to understand, it's critical you trust us to decide for you. banishment from a tribe/society/civilisation's not a good option for you.

 

[Liar]

hmmn... well, where one side is the physical, the other metaphysical... let me see. For the sake of discussion, I would propose that the conspiracy of the latter is about keeping (select) groups of humans under a certain type of control; behave a certain way, accept you cannot ever understand 'god' (works in mysterious ways/is omnipotent/the alpha and the omega) or you'll never get to 'know'. Isn't that a way of keeping things from people with a 'promise' that all will be revealed once we die? Isn't it a conspiring of those wielding the power?

Ah, but this is you saying that there is a conspiring of those wielding the power, to promote religion and the God explanation, as a way to control the masses.

That makes you the conspiracy therorist, does it not?

 

[butters]

Ah, but this is you saying that there is a conspiring of those wielding the power, to promote religion and the God explanation, as a way to control the masses.

That makes you the conspiracy therorist, does it not?

not if it's historically proven, as has happened over and over

latin -just look at the fight over that little beaut!

 

[Curmudgeonly]

Collectivists most certainly abused more people than religion ever aspired to.

belief systems seem largely based upon the common concepts of:

• you are insignificant but, if you adhere to how we say you should behave your status will be elevated...once you're dead.
  
• wanna be in my gang? we're smart enough to lnow how to be more important than everyone else... whom we can pity but if they won't join in, sucks to be them
  
• don't think for yourself, we've got it all worked out; we'll tell you bits but you can't expect us to tell you everything because you won't understand it... we have priests/shaman/visionaries who graciously stand between you and 'god', and if we use languages you don't understand or write letters you are kept from learning how to read or use symbolism you are not elevated enough to understand, it's critical you trust us to decide for you. banishment from a tribe/society/civilisation's not a good option for you.

Sounds like the religion of collectivism.

 

[Tryharder62]

yeah, pretty much had it worked out by the time i was 11

hi, tryharder

it's not exactly my idea... it's a common enough debate out and about and can be discussed reasonably and without malice. it was a little surprising that people seemed to think i was making a clear statement about my own beliefs and, thereby, somehow telling others how they should think the whole idea of the post was to voice a way of looking at things, speak to how human nature might be at work, and invite others to extrapolate on these angles in a discussion. should have known better

thought i made my own views clear enough in the op/responses, that i have no issue with others following their own personal faith just so long as they don't feel i/others need to think the same way or use it to manipulate people in any way.

given your personal faith-choices, i understand your final statement; i do. as i said before, a roman-catholic upbringing schooled me in the indoctrinations of such religious thinking

given mine, i find that losing my own humanity...my ability to love other human beings more than a (to me) nebulous concept...would be the saddest loss. that doesn't mean i'm closed to what may be revealed in the future, or an acceptance of the knowledge there will be so many things in my own lifetime i'll NEVER get to understand/know but exist beyond my sensory capabilities. natural things. things so amazing that, whilst perfectly natural and glimpsed at (through science, through other creatures, through the amazing minds of inventors) will never be unveiled to me. but the future comes.

be well

When I said this:

Actually, your idea that God is a conspiracy, could be a conspiracy that there is a conspiracy involving God.

It was suppose to be a joke. Obviously unsuccessful!

Classic discussions: God didn't make man vs man made Gods. That discussion always seems to center on man's finite mind making up a God to answer seemingly unanswerable questions. What if it is a man's finite mind simply acknowledging that there is more out there than what meets the senses? With God the possibilities are limitless.

Live Long and Prosper, (Get it)

 

[Tryharder62]

I believe in the God of Spinoza.

Takes a lot of faith...

 

[rae121452]

because people like joe hill and ghandi and che are still heroes to me:

Any copyrighted material on these pages is used in "fair use", for the purpose of study, review or critical analysis only, and will be removed at the request of copyright owner(s).

The IWW concentrated much of their efforts on organizing the migratory and casual laborers of the lumber and construction camps. In between jobs these migrants would gather in the Skid Rows of Chicago, Portland, Seattle and other cities they used as a "base of operations." There on the street corners was the inevitable Salvation Army band anxious to save lost Wobbly souls.

But the Wobblies were more interested in filling their stomachs than in saving their souls, and they ridiculed the Salvation Army hymns with biting parodies aimed at what came to be known as "pie in the sky" preaching....

The most successful of these parodies was Joe Hill's masterpiece, "The Preacher and the Slave," more widely known as "Pie in the Sky" -- a devastating take-off on the hymn "Sweet Bye and Bye."

Edith Fowke and Joe Glazer, Songs of Work and Protest, New York, NY, 1973, p. 157.

First published in the Jul 6, 1911 edition of the Industrial Worker "Little Red Songbook" as "Long Haired Preachers,", credited to F. B. Brechler (subsequently credited to Joe Hill in Mar 6, 1913 fifth edition)

Long-haired preachers come out every night,
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
But when asked how 'bout something to eat
They will answer with voices so sweet:

CHORUS:
You will eat, bye and bye,
In that glorious land above the sky;
Work and pray, live on hay,
You'll get pie in the sky when you die.

The starvation army they play,
They sing and they clap and they pray
'Till they get all your coin on the drum
Then they'll tell you when you're on the bum:

Holy Rollers and jumpers come out,
They holler, they jump and they shout.
Give your money to Jesus they say,
He will cure all diseases today.
If you fight hard for children and wife --
Try to get something good in this life --
You're a sinner and bad man, they tell,
When you die you will sure go to hell.

Workingmen of all countries, unite,
Side by side we for freedom will fight;
When the world and its wealth we have gained
To the grafters we'll sing this refrain:

FINAL CHORUS:
You will eat, bye and bye,
When you've learned how to cook and to fry.
Chop some wood, 'twill do you good,
And you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye.

 

[colddiesel]

Apse Anu, Bel, Marduk, Ahura Mazda, Yahweh, Zeus, Amun-ra, Allah, and the Rainbow Serpent were all the same number 1 god and all become forgotten in time.

 

[Dribble]

Apse Anu, Bel, Marduk, Ahura Mazda, Yahweh, Zeus, Amun-ra, Allah, and the Rainbow Serpent were all the same number 1 god and all become forgotten in time.

The Bishop Okham was excommunicated for asking, "if God is ever-powerful and all things come from God, and God is ever-loving...why is there evil in the World?"

Good question.

I will ask a different question...If God is truly omnipotent, why does he/she/it care what they are called? And why would anyone in their right mind think only one message form (religion) would reach all people?

 

[Liar]

not if it's historically proven, as has happened over and over

latin -just look at the fight over that little beaut!

I didn't say your theory of conspiracy was unfounded. Just that it's a theory of conspiracy. And that it is you claiming conspiracy, not the God Squad.

Religion is not a conspiracy theory. It might be a conspiracy. See the difference?

 

[Tryharder62]

The Bishop Okham was excommunicated for asking, "if God is ever-powerful and all things come from God, and God is ever-loving...why is there evil in the World?"

Good question.

I will ask a different question...If God is truly omnipotent, why does he/she/it care what they are called? And why would anyone in their right mind think only one message form (religion) would reach all people?

Well....By calling "Him" God believers are simply acknowledging "Him" for who He is. It puts our relationship with God in perspective. (God isn't really assigned a sex.) If we give Him honor and praise we are affirming that He is who He says He is. It connects Him with what He has done for us..by giving us life....by being by our side through life...and continuing it with Him through eternity if we want to.

It's kind of like with my mother...If I would have called her Yvonne that would have gotten me the parental stare. You know the one that makes you say "Oh crap." By calling her mom it establishes our relationship and it ensures that I give her the proper respect she deserves.

God deserves respect.

Well.... I'd like to think that I am in my right mind but there are days I wonder. The truth is there is a message...all you have to do is want it and believe.

 

[butters]

I didn't say your theory of conspiracy was unfounded. Just that it's a theory of conspiracy. And that it is you claiming conspiracy, not the God Squad.

Religion is not a conspiracy theory. It might be a conspiracy. See the difference?

and now my head hurts

in its broadest sense:

conspiracy theory
[kənˈspirəsē ˈTHiərēˈTHirē]
NOUN
conspiracy theory (noun) · conspiracy theories (plural noun)
a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
"they sought to account for the attacks in terms of a conspiracy theory"

ok, i am baked (and not in a good herbal way!) from burning a YUGE brush pile that threw out so much heat it may as well been an opening straight into hades.

i was kind of hoping this topic expanded away from the god-centrist title into ripples of how the human psyche addresses issues that confront it, and maybe why it chooses to do so using forms of religious/faith behaviours. seems it pretty much got stuck, though, and that's probably down to me for the title of the thread.

*cold apple juice... deep gulps*

 

[Dribble]

and now my head hurts

in its broadest sense:

ok, i am baked (and not in a good herbal way!) from burning a YUGE brush pile that threw out so much heat it may as well been an opening straight into hades.

i was kind of hoping this topic expanded away from the god-centrist title into ripples of how the human psyche addresses issues that confront it, and maybe why it chooses to do so using forms of religious/faith behaviours. seems it pretty much got stuck, though, and that's probably down to me for the title of the thread.

*cold apple juice... deep gulps*

why do you think it hasn't? I see a lot about the human psyche in these answers.

 

[Dribble]

God deserves respect.

:

I am curious why I was quoted for this response?