Female-Led Relationships

[eroticspank]

She begins by saying that D/S and FLR are the same for her, which I disagree with. Much of my perspective has been formed lurking around boards like the BSDM forums here on Lit, which seems to be different than my experience with my wife

Then she continues



Again, not my experience but to each his (her) own.

My wife paints a picture of what she wants and sees as possible, and inspires and engages me to turn that sometimes abstract vision into reality. From lurking around discussion boards, I gather that a dominant may feel no need to share her vision (if there even is one), expecting only subservience and compliance. My wife thinks beyond what each of us does individually and sees what we can do together. It seems that a dominant may focus only on controlling actions and situations. What can the submissive do.

My wife embraces change and knows that even if things are working, we can always improve our relationship. Sometimes that create waves and we learn to steady the boat together. Dominants seem to tend to stick with what works, refining rewards and punishments to get the results that she wants.

My wife is willing to be herself and let our relationship ebb and flow. If the D&S boards I've lurked on are any indication, dominants seem to want to mimic things they learn from others and adopt a definition rather than defining the relationship herself.

My wife knows that I can solve problems or find solutions. She doesn't tell me what to do or how to do it. I often have answers, can work through problems, or am able to learn and apply myself - sometimes making mistakes. She knows that a mistake is not a failure. I'm competent and making the best of a situation encourages me to do better and try harder. Dominants seem to assign tasks and dictate how to do them, and reward or punish based on the results. Anything else would be considered a breakdown of authority. She must remain in control.

I am well beyond just following my wife's leadership; I'm her raving fan, cheerleader, and running back. If the boards are any indication, submissives seem to want to follow directions and seek to please the boss.

But, not considering myself a submissive I really am not in any position to say.

I understand your comments and examples but don't completely agree. In fact, I can see how some couples have a relationship like yours above but may not call it a FLR, and I think there are others that would call it a FLR. Each FLR is different in my mind because the relationship fits the personalities and the habits of the two involved. What I see in common is FLRs is that the woman runs the relationship....the definition of that, what it means, and what areas it covers is what makes it hazy....not everyone sees it the same way.

ES

 

[SlutAddicted]

My husband and I were in the grocery store weeks ago, and I was in a hurry. Jason stopped to look at barbecue sauce, which we didn't need, and so with a roll of my eyes, I took the basket and kept moving. By the time he caught up to me, I was almost finished checking out. He looked at magazine covers while I paid the bill, so the checkout boy didn't realize that we were together. The checkout boy handed me the receipt, and leaving the bags on the counter, I began to walk out.

"Ma'am! Ma'am!" the checkout boy called, "you're forgetting your groceries!"

I glanced back at Jason and then turned to the checkout boy.

"I don't carry groceries," I replied, and out the door I went.

That is a great anecdote. When my wife does stuff like that it is such a thrill. It feeds my submissive cuckold side in a way that not many people understand.

A lot of people would observe that type of interaction and pass judgment on you or your husband based upon a traditional paradigm, a few might acknowledge your prerogative as the leader in the relationship, but only a very select few understand what you did for him.

It is not in most people's understanding to recognize the submissive thrill. When my wife does things like that - comparatively subtle but powerful - I feel a bolt of electricity shoot down my spine. I can put myself in that situation and feel the eyes of the observers on me, each one adding to that electricity. I can feel my cock swelling. I can see myself pausing worried that my erection might show, then realizing it won't because I am caged as always. Then that realization thrills me further. It is a feedback loop that leaves me frozen for just a moment basking in submission - until she snaps me out of it with a command to move. As I scurry to pick up the grocery bags my submission and my humiliation are complete....my whole body and mind buzzes as I focus solely on obedience.

There is something liberating about being compelled to shed normal expectations. When my wife adopts that dominant role, especially in public, I can play the husband role as others expect or I can please my dominant wife. It is a clear choice and I can't cling to both. For me the choice is clear - being submissive to her. Somehow being compelled to do that in front of others compels me to own it and makes it that much more intensely satisfying. Most people see a humiliation in that and I suppose there is some of that but for me it is more of a sort of commitment - to submit to her without reservation.

 

[SlutAddicted]

She begins by saying that D/S and FLR are the same for her, which I disagree with. Much of my perspective has been formed lurking around boards like the BSDM forums here on Lit, which seems to be different than my experience with my wife

Then she continues



Again, not my experience but to each his (her) own.

My wife paints a picture of what she wants and sees as possible, and inspires and engages me to turn that sometimes abstract vision into reality. From lurking around discussion boards, I gather that a dominant may feel no need to share her vision (if there even is one), expecting only subservience and compliance. My wife thinks beyond what each of us does individually and sees what we can do together. It seems that a dominant may focus only on controlling actions and situations. What can the submissive do.

My wife embraces change and knows that even if things are working, we can always improve our relationship. Sometimes that create waves and we learn to steady the boat together. Dominants seem to tend to stick with what works, refining rewards and punishments to get the results that she wants.

My wife is willing to be herself and let our relationship ebb and flow. If the D&S boards I've lurked on are any indication, dominants seem to want to mimic things they learn from others and adopt a definition rather than defining the relationship herself.

My wife knows that I can solve problems or find solutions. She doesn't tell me what to do or how to do it. I often have answers, can work through problems, or am able to learn and apply myself - sometimes making mistakes. She knows that a mistake is not a failure. I'm competent and making the best of a situation encourages me to do better and try harder. Dominants seem to assign tasks and dictate how to do them, and reward or punish based on the results. Anything else would be considered a breakdown of authority. She must remain in control.

I am well beyond just following my wife's leadership; I'm her raving fan, cheerleader, and running back. If the boards are any indication, submissives seem to want to follow directions and seek to please the boss.

But, not considering myself a submissive I really am not in any position to say.

It seems like you are perceiving the role of the D's as an observer but the FLR relationship as a participant. So your perspective on the formal is anecdotal while on the latter it is experiential. I think that the observer can never really understand the lived dynamic. What you see written on the boards doesn't fully capture a D's dynamic - it just captures what those who like talking about it choose to talk about.

That said, IMO there is a difference. One can lead without dominating. In most of life the best leaders seek to inspire or blaze a path. Very few good leaders actually seek to dominate because outside of authoritarian circumstances that doesn't work. Absent the ability to force people to comply most leaders need to convince them too follow. Meanwhile to dominate suggests control by force. That force may be physical, mental, emotional or otherwise but it isn't the same as leadership. And to the extent that it overlaps with leadership it is but one type.

Seems to me the two are like a Venn diagram. One can dominate without actually leading - in fact most times we think of one person dominating another they are likely exploiting them more so than leading them. And one can lead without dominating - as most leaders do. There is an intersection of leadership through domination. And one might say that in D's context a "good Dom" (whatever that means) seeks to lead rather than exploit. But I think they are very different things

 

[lady_jennaxx]

It's nice to see my thread has still been active in my absence.

I appreciate the ❤ from those who are truly seeking.

 

[littlecordelera]

That is a great anecdote. When my wife does stuff like that it is such a thrill. It feeds my submissive cuckold side in a way that not many people understand.

A lot of people would observe that type of interaction and pass judgment on you or your husband based upon a traditional paradigm, a few might acknowledge your prerogative as the leader in the relationship, but only a very select few understand what you did for him.

It is not in most people's understanding to recognize the submissive thrill. When my wife does things like that - comparatively subtle but powerful - I feel a bolt of electricity shoot down my spine. I can put myself in that situation and feel the eyes of the observers on me, each one adding to that electricity. I can feel my cock swelling. I can see myself pausing worried that my erection might show, then realizing it won't because I am caged as always. Then that realization thrills me further. It is a feedback loop that leaves me frozen for just a moment basking in submission - until she snaps me out of it with a command to move. As I scurry to pick up the grocery bags my submission and my humiliation are complete....my whole body and mind buzzes as I focus solely on obedience.

There is something liberating about being compelled to shed normal expectations. When my wife adopts that dominant role, especially in public, I can play the husband role as others expect or I can please my dominant wife. It is a clear choice and I can't cling to both. For me the choice is clear - being submissive to her. Somehow being compelled to do that in front of others compels me to own it and makes it that much more intensely satisfying. Most people see a humiliation in that and I suppose there is some of that but for me it is more of a sort of commitment - to submit to her without reservation.

It's nice to see that someone else "gets it." Just as you said, "It feeds [his] submissive cuckold side in a way that not many people understand." That is true, and it should be noted that there is a fine line between what has that desired effect and what is too much.

I really like this thread. It is more about people than sex. Reading this thread has made me take notice of the things that go on between us.

Jason was driving that day, and on the drive home, it was completely silent in the car. I intentionally didn't pull out my phone or distract myself in any way. I sat up, erect, with my legs crossed, looked out the windshield, and let the silence linger. I knew that Jason knew that I was basking in what had just happened. The sexual tension in the car grew to be intense, and to make it all the more obvious, I began clicking my gum.

We've been married almost 20 years, so I didn't need to check. I know that within five minutes of that car ride, his little baby gherkin was hard as a rock.

I love having that kind of power.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

I'm glad that this thread has sparked interest (maybe even introspection) and questions. It's nice to see contributions from so many

As I've mentioned in other threads, I welcome PMs from single, unattached men. Thanks for understanding

 

[SlutAddicted]

It's nice to see that someone else "gets it." Just as you said, "It feeds [his] submissive cuckold side in a way that not many people understand." That is true, and it should be noted that there is a fine line between what has that desired effect and what is too much.

I really like this thread. It is more about people than sex. Reading this thread has made me take notice of the things that go on between us.

Jason was driving that day, and on the drive home, it was completely silent in the car. I intentionally didn't pull out my phone or distract myself in any way. I sat up, erect, with my legs crossed, looked out the windshield, and let the silence linger. I knew that Jason knew that I was basking in what had just happened. The sexual tension in the car grew to be intense, and to make it all the more obvious, I began clicking my gum.

We've been married almost 20 years, so I didn't need to check. I know that within five minutes of that car ride, his little baby gherkin was hard as a rock.

I love having that kind of power.

Awesome. The little details and subtleties really make it work and a wife really needs to know how to play it properly. As you say, knowing where the line is between desired effect and too much. Also knowing what works. I find that the intensity of my wife's power over me is strongest when she can exercise it with a subtle look or gesture. The only time she is aggressive or "bossy" is if she is going for a very specific effect, not because she needs to be.

I note that in your anecdote you did not need to instruct Jason to carry the bags as your words were directed to the clerk not Jason - I assume because he already know that is his job. Likewise you didn't wait to ensure his compliance - you simply walked away knowing he would comply (that kind of power move makes me hard).

The way you describe the ride home is consistent with my wife's practice of generally not acknowledging my obedience. It is expected and nothing more is necessary. When she does acknowledge it she does so in a perfunctory way that is a reflection of her own good mood or in a haughty way that makes it clear that I must remember my place.

Do you know what Jason is thinking in those moments? In that circumstance I would also be rock hard and would surely wish for some kind of indulgence of my stimulation but I would not dare voice that desire unless asked. It simply isn't permitted. My wife seems to see right through me so she knows I am stimulated and if she is inclined to indulge me she will do so and probably come up with something far more exciting than what I had in mind. If she is not inclined to do so then that is that. Importuning for what I want without first being asked is viewed as akin to disobedience.

It can be frustrating at times when I so desperately desire her or her attention or whatever. But there is something calming about having clear direction and rules. I don't spend energy fussing over what I want. I just focus on her and being obedient to her and in return she provides all that I want and more. All I had to do was stop trying to direct and control things and let it be on her terms. For her it isn't all about self-indulgence getting what she wants. Leadership has it privileges but she carries a significant burden to be a good leader.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I feel this is the best male audience to pose a question to.

Would a female led relationship appeal to you and, if so, what would it look like? I realize there are many variances to this particular theme and the 2 people involved can make it whatever they choose, but are there key components that would draw you to this particular dynamic?

My question extends beyond the sexual component, of course. Being a strong woman with a slightly "sub" man is nothing new of course...but I am not speaking of a D/s type interaction. Ordering someone around and expecting your bidding to be done without question isn't my thing. I prefer a much more cerebral, gentle dynamic where my strength isn't used to wield punishment, moreso guidance and nurturing.

Any of you out there currently enjoying such a dynamic? Hoping to or actively searching for such a thing? Would love to discuss the ins and outs and get a real life feel of how this manifests in your day-to-day lives.

As always, PM's are not only welcome, but encouraged

I feel as though the equality in a marriage is the source of a lot of discord. Each partner is equal in value as a person and the happiness of each partner is equally important. But equal/shared authority is often not effective and does not reflect the abilities and personalities of the two individuals.

The equality we see often seems to be a formulaic response to the advance of women's rights and the repudiation of anachronistic ideas of gender roles. Reality is that in virtually any well run group or organization there are lines of authority. A qualified leader with everyone's best interest at heart is necessary. Even in fully democratic societies it isn't functional to make every decision by committee or plebiscite.

Rather than replacing relationships where men held all the authority with ones where nobody holds authority, we need to recognize that women are just as capable of exercising authority as men. Instead of presuming that all relationship should have no leader, we need to accept the fact that for many it works best when there is a leader but it can be either partner.

There are male led relationships that work very well. The fallacy is in the premise that men are more naturally leaders. That isn't true. And a lot of us do a piss poor job of leading because it isn't in our nature to do so.

Meanwhile for either gender leadership isn't about being know-it-all or dominant or bossy. Throughout society great leaders are beloved and respected by their followers and rarely have to resort to aggressive measures. My own anecdotal experience is that most people who think they are leaders are not. As the saying goes "Watch out for people who are always bragging about who they are. A lion will never have to tell you it's a lion." Likewise those that view leadership as all perks and power don't know what it is to be a leader. It comes with the burden of responsibility.

Firm leadership provides guidance, minimizes friction and allows both partners to pull in the same direction. For many couples that is more important than each partner being 50% of every decision. And for those who prefer a leadership model it is quite clear that women are at least as capable of leading.

 

[eroticspank]

We've been married almost 20 years, so I didn't need to check. I know that within five minutes of that car ride, his little baby gherkin was hard as a rock.

I love having that kind of power.

Wow great comments and sharing in this thread. It really helps to understand the day to day FLR dynamic instead of just bedroom stories. And I bet "he" likes that you have that kind of power too!

ES

 

[lady_jennaxx]

So many men who claim to want this kind of dynamic makes me wonder how many take the steps to find it?

 

[bitslinger]

So many men who claim to want this kind of dynamic makes me wonder how many take the steps to find it?

While it may be possible to go looking for it or put it on the shopping list, in my experience it is either something you stumble into or an organic evolution of a relationship as we communicate and negotiate what works for each of us and both of us. I think that having an intimate foundation in place helps open up the possibilities. It takes the relationship to a higher plane.

 

[Kitschshaman]

So many men who claim to want this kind of dynamic makes me wonder how many take the steps to find it?

I greatly suspect it's largely a serendipitous process, like any good relationship. And as a bit of hard-won wisdom, just because you think you're in love doesn't mean that person is the healthiest emotionally speaking. Acceptance, recognition of boundaries, true compassion are essential elements. The foundation and magic of such a union is the fact that both are engaging with full knowledge and full acceptance of the other just the way they are.

How did you two meet and find that this was the relationship that you both wanted and enthusiastically pursued?

 

[pplwatching]

So many men who claim to want this kind of dynamic makes me wonder how many take the steps to find it?

A lot of material on the internet about the subject is along the lines of "how to make your husband more attentive" (etc). Here's an interesting read on the subject, from a woman advocating using it to improve aspects of a marriage.

http://wonder-woman.info/ds/Taking Back Your Marriage - Georgia Ivey Green.pdf

While this may or may not have actually been written by a women, web sites like it seem to sell "what you'll get out of it for the investment you put in it" and not really how it might be a natural fit that both people enjoy. If it's just more work in an already unbalanced relationship, it's probably not going to be smooth or enjoyable.

 

[littlecordelera]

I can't imagine two people just out-of-the-blue deciding one day to try living as an FLR. If their personalities are not already of the sort required, their new FLR relationship would only be role play. It seems to me that would get old, quickly. But then I'm not one to be judging role play situations. I can't bring myself to do it. It feels silly.

 

[Kitschshaman]

I can't imagine two people just out-of-the-blue deciding one day to try living as an FLR. If their personalities are not already of the sort required, their new FLR relationship would only be role play. It seems to me that would get old, quickly. But then I'm not one to be judging role play situations. I can't bring myself to do it. It feels silly.

I would think the appeal of role-play would be the same thing that appeals to folks who want to be actors. They want to play someone else for a while, be inside another person's skin to see what it feels like. They may do it to try something to see if they like it. If they don't, likely wouldn't be repeated. I do have to agree that if the personalities are not already aligned to the FLR bent, it won't work, at least in the long term. That said, I have been in a relationship that swung back and forth, with her wanting to be submissive on one occasion and dominant in the next, depending on what life was dealing her. On occasions when she'd been depended on heavily to tell people what to do, she enjoyed being bound and taken care of. On other occasions when she'd felt completely without control she enjoyed taking the reins. I'm not sure it's a thing set in stone and every relationship, like every recipe in a cooks arsenal, is a different blend. Some blends work, some don't. One thing is for certain, that conflict, low key as it may be, will always be present. If two people agree on everything, one of them is unnecessary.

 

[twister947]

I can't imagine two people just out-of-the-blue deciding one day to try living as an FLR. If their personalities are not already of the sort required, their new FLR relationship would only be role play. It seems to me that would get old, quickly. But then I'm not one to be judging role play situations. I can't bring myself to do it. It feels silly.

This. All of it.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

This. All of it.

Agreed.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Mid week bump

 

[eroticspank]

So many men who claim to want this kind of dynamic makes me wonder how many take the steps to find it?

I feel like a lot of men go about it the wrong way. They probably already have in their mind what they think a FLR is, based on stories, Porn, etc. Then they seek it out in areas probably not fit to find a great partner, Strip clubs, etc, or they seek Kink before personality. Meeting a woman who is interested in a FLR usually involves meeting a woman with a certain type of personality. Seek the personality first, then find chemistry, and later talk on thoughts of FLRs. And finally it is about being open, humble, and vulnerable to the woman. Many of us guys, RUN at the first slight of a comment or criticism of us, vs thinking about her comments and maybe realizing she is correct.

ES

 

[lady_jennaxx]

I feel like a lot of men go about it the wrong way. They probably already have in their mind what they think a FLR is, based on stories, Porn, etc. Then they seek it out in areas probably not fit to find a great partner, Strip clubs, etc, or they seek Kink before personality. Meeting a woman who is interested in a FLR usually involves meeting a woman with a certain type of personality. Seek the personality first, then find chemistry, and later talk on thoughts of FLRs. And finally it is about being open, humble, and vulnerable to the woman. Many of us guys, RUN at the first slight of a comment or criticism of us, vs thinking about her comments and maybe realizing she is correct.

ES

Very well said thank you eroticspank

 

[twister947]

Sometimes it's as simple as getting out of the way, and leaving space for a new leader.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

There have been many good examples in this thread; some not my particular cup of tea, but that's the great part about sharing, you get exposure to concepts you might not have thought of before. Compatibility will ALWAYS come before anything else (for me) and finding the proper balance in the dynamic is a joint effort

 

[lady_jennaxx]

I was speaking more along the lines of some of the early comments saying "yeah I was in an FLR without knowing it", "my wife turned it into one" ... I don't see how it can be an ethical FLR while being a unilateral decision!

Some aren't as concerned with terminology. Just because there hasn't been mutual discussion or acknowledgement doesn't mean the dynamic is less valid. It's whatever works in their circumstance.

 

[Kitschshaman]

I feel like a lot of men go about it the wrong way. They probably already have in their mind what they think a FLR is, based on stories, Porn, etc. Then they seek it out in areas probably not fit to find a great partner, Strip clubs, etc, or they seek Kink before personality. Meeting a woman who is interested in a FLR usually involves meeting a woman with a certain type of personality. Seek the personality first, then find chemistry, and later talk on thoughts of FLRs. And finally it is about being open, humble, and vulnerable to the woman. Many of us guys, RUN at the first slight of a comment or criticism of us, vs thinking about her comments and maybe realizing she is correct.

ES

'Seek the personality first, then find chemistry, and later talk on thoughts of FLRs.'...I find the prospect of being in a relationship that works is a very serendipitous thing, as the chemistry happens first, then good conversation will establish whether the personalities mesh well, then the first tendrils of discussion about 'FLR' will emerge naturally, both feel the heartbeat swell, the 'I can't believe this wonderful thing is happening' moment, and then the full-blooded, honest explorations that set the relationship on its track. For that to happen, not a small amount of magic is necessary, it's going to happen by searching for it. Indeed, more often than not the times I've searched for a relationship are the very times the relationship I want eludes me.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Sorry, I'm not meaning to be contrary, I think we're coming at this from mostly the same place. I'm not talking about terminology but about abuse, like the second comment in the thread:



Or this one:



These are examples where it is clearly not working in their circumstance because only one person wanted the dynamic. This isn't something specific to FLR but to any relationship... it's not any more okay for the male partner to be the one who suddenly becomes controlling and doesn't give their partner any space to exist.

For me, a healthy FLR would require communication about what that means. Not necessarily everything spelled out, but the knowledge "yes, she leads this relationship because she knows best for both of us".

I understand where you're coming from and am in agreement. As I stated in the post that started this thread, my definition isn't what most assume a FLR is. I can't/won't force my definition or expectations on anyone. The "female-led" is only part of the relationship, not the be all and end all. I am seeking a relationship after all, not a dictatorship