Abortion

[KimGordon67]

There is no reason for either of us to chat respectfully with one another if you feel you need to resort to name calling. Everything you say beyond that point is irrelevant to me.

How handy for you.

 

[Lorilei]

There probably is some version of this that wouldn't be a bad idea, if vasectomies were completely reversible ... but they kind of aren't. Sometimes, but not with any reliability.

That should be a price men are willing to pay to make sure there are no abortions, right? I mean, since they feel so strongly about it.

 

[badbabysitter]

That should be a price men are willing to pay to make sure there are no abortions, right? I mean, since they feel so strongly about it.

Nope, the woman is always to blame

As a Catholic that's been taught to me since day one

 

[Lorilei]

Nope, the woman is always to blame

As a Catholic that's been taught to me since day one

As a former Methodist, I say fuck that shit.

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

You clearly missed the point that many pregnancies that don't go to term do so 'naturally' ... why are we putting more energy into minimising the chances of that happening, if we're so concerned about the sanctity of 'human life'.

Many lives end in heart attacks. Maybe heart research should be defunded. But then we aren't talking about naturally occurring means of death, are we? We are talking about the conscious choice to end a life.

 

[Hal9000_]

I personally would not choose an abortion for myself, but I can't dictate what another woman does with her body. It's her life.


The problem is that these Deplorables are against vital programs which help children once they shoot out of the womb, cutting important social programs.

They are against sex education in schools, teaching kids about the consequences of unprotected sex.


That's the hypocrisy. The Deplorables have no benevolent feelings for anyone, they simply wish to control others.


They are incapable of simple empathy.

Not to mention being against birth control.

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

Not to mention being against birth control.

Hey. I'm all for wrapping that weenie. I think you are referring to fundamentalists or olde tyme Catholics.

 

[badbabysitter]

Many lives end in heart attacks. Maybe heart research should be defunded. But then we aren't talking about naturally occurring means of death, are we? We are talking about the conscious choice to end a life.

If a fetus was a person, it would be

But its not

so it isnt

 

[Kantarii]

Nope, the woman is always to blame

Only you have said that.

 

[Hal9000_]

Hey. I'm all for wrapping that weenie. I think you are referring to fundamentalists or olde tyme Catholics.

Do you think private insurance should cover the costs of BC?

 

[docoral]

Nope, the woman is always to blame

As a Catholic that's been taught to me since day one

I've always wrote that the man bears as much responsibility if not more. Men are more aggressive and in many cases are more to blame, but to say that some women would take that as describing women being weak, not the case. As a Catholic boy in Catholic schools we were made to be the bad guy for the most part. I do agree back in the day the girl and family bore the societal shame and that was unfair. Forced a lot of marriages. Times have changed.

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

Do you think private insurance should cover the costs of BC?

As a matter of economics or theology? Rubbers are cheaper than babies.

 

[juttjaw]

That's the 'It's not OK unless I say it's OK' philosophy.

To me, there are only two, maybe three people that should even know, let alone decide. The patient, the doctor and in some cases, maybe the partner.

Definitely never the Church or any activists. The Government only to the extent of mandating that medical safety guidelines be followed, the same as any other licensing and safety issue for any part of medicine.

That was not ment to be a reflection on his general view of abortion, or mine for that matter. It was mearly an observation I've made over the last month or so. I feel he would use the "I was born at night, but not last night!" defense and think it was quippy. I wanted to extend my condolences. It must feel very unfortunate.

As for the topic at hand? My beliefs? Not my body, not my decision. And yes, she had my 1st child when we were still teenagers. The subject certainly came up. We made the best choice for our child and what we thought was for us as well. Every situation is different. And every other decision since our decision is none of my bizz.

 

[KimGordon67]

Many lives end in heart attacks. Maybe heart research should be defunded. But then we aren't talking about naturally occurring means of death, are we? We are talking about the conscious choice to end a life.

Define 'naturally occurring'. If I'm unknowingly pregnant and drink a litre of vodka a day (pretty much the level you need to cause proven harm to a fetus), and have a miscarriage as a result of that, have I 'consciously chosen' to end a life, or was the miscarriage 'naturally occurring' because the environment was too hostile?
What about if I know I might be pregnant, but haven't taken a pregnancy test yet?
What if I know I am pregnant?

The 'defunding heart research' argument is specious at best. I'm all in favour of medical interventions to maintain embryo's/fetuses for parents that want to have babies.

 

[badbabysitter]

Only you have said that.

You clearly aren't catholic

 

[KimGordon67]

Just out of interests sake, if I have a contraception failure (which has happened to me), and I take the morning after pill (which I did), and there had actually been a conception (which is unknown, but let's say for the argument there was), am I still a 'baby killer'?

 

[badbabysitter]

Just out of interests sake, if I have a contraception failure (which has happened to me), and I take the morning after pill (which I did), and there had actually been a conception (which is unknown, but let's say for the argument there was), am I still a 'baby killer'?

Well, duh, of course you are. Birth control is murder

 

[Hal9000_]

As a matter of economics or theology? Rubbers are cheaper than babies.

Rubbers, pills, IUDs, all of them.

Vasectomies and tube ties, too.

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

Define 'naturally occurring'. If I'm unknowingly pregnant and drink a litre of vodka a day (pretty much the level you need to cause proven harm to a fetus), and have a miscarriage as a result of that, have I 'consciously chosen' to end a life, or was the miscarriage 'naturally occurring' because the environment was too hostile?
What about if I know I might be pregnant, but haven't taken a pregnancy test yet?
What if I know I am pregnant?

The 'defunding heart research' argument is specious at best. I'm all in favour of medical interventions to maintain embryo's/fetuses for parents that want to have babies.

The justice system defines different degrees in regards to the taking of human life. Different degrees of murder, homicide even justifiable homicide. What say we apply those to all forms of murder? You may be able to argue that if a fetus is killing the mother, terminal force may be justified. Arbitrarily denying the unborn their constitutional rights seems....unconstitutional.

 

[KimGordon67]

Rubbers, pills, IUDs, all of them.

Vasectomies and tube ties, too.

Actually, vasectomies are way cheaper than tubal ligations.

Fun fact - if you haven't had babies and you want a tubal ligation, it's incredibly difficult to get one. So yay for (a) giving women bodily autonomy and (b) making it easy for women to avoid unwanted pregnancies. (Hint - I'm being a bit sarcastic there.)

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

Just out of interests sake, if I have a contraception failure (which has happened to me), and I take the morning after pill (which I did), and there had actually been a conception (which is unknown, but let's say for the argument there was), am I still a 'baby killer'?

Who are you asking? I think you know the answer.

 

[KimGordon67]

The justice system defines different degrees in regards to the taking of human life. Different degrees of murder, homicide even justifiable homicide. What say we apply those to all forms of murder? You may be able to argue that if a fetus is killing the mother, terminal force may be justified. Arbitrarily denying the unborn their constitutional rights seems....unconstitutional.

You didn't actually answer my question ... possibly I should have been clearer that I'm not drinking the vodka with the intention of inducing a miscarriage - in two of the three scenarios, I don't even know (for sure) that I'm pregnant. I just happen to really like vodka.

 

[KimGordon67]

Who are you asking? I think you know the answer.

Right ... so although contraception works a lot of the time, when it doesn't, we're just going to proceed with the pregnancy.

That seems reasonable, and not at all likely to result in people doing things that are not only unsafe for their 'precious baby', but also for themselves.

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

You didn't actually answer my question ... possibly I should have been clearer that I'm not drinking the vodka with the intention of inducing a miscarriage - in two of the three scenarios, I don't even know (for sure) that I'm pregnant. I just happen to really like vodka.

I did answer the question. Involuntary manslaughter. Sucking the baby out with a cannula, murder 1.

 

[badbabysitter]

I did answer the question. Involuntary manslaughter. Sucking the baby out with a cannula, murder 1.

A woman is always to blame