Trump’s Wall

[Oblimo]

Oblimo....from The Land Intelligence Forgot.

What am I missing?

 

[Emerson40]

Not much at map-reading are you? Those big blue areas on the map are water. You got to have a boat to traverse it. See that big land mass to the north? That's Canada. Canadians don't sneak into the country to take advantage of our safety net since they already have a better one there in Canada.

Illegal aliens have a couple of milk jugs refilled with water tied together with a string and some rubber-tired sandals.

Every single section of wall that is actually constructed will have the exact same effect as a wall has in controlling movement in any other parts of the world; gravity isn't different in different parts of the world. Where you put a wall you direct people around that wall into an area where you can interdict them.

You don't even understand the basics of just hiking. Never mind whether it's a man-made obstacle. You're much better off for example going around a log then you are going over it because of the energy and effort expended. A wall is sure as hell more of an obstacle than a log.

There's nothing about sections of wall that's going to make it easier for Democrats to import voters. That's the point. And why Democrats don't want it, plain and simple.

To busy bodies point: why was it that until it became Trump's wall the Democrats were willing to spend 25 billion dollars on a wall? Did they only recently come to this "wisdom" that you now possess? Wisdom that you acquired from the very idiotic me.es you have been posting to defend your nonsensical position that walls are not a hindrance?

Newsflash...most of the illegal immigrants in the US do not arrive with water-filled milk jugs and tire sandals. That's the Kool-Aid talking, not facts.

A good number arrive with passports and documents - some these are fake, and some are real and belong to other folks.
They arrive in cars and trucks by land, and planes and boats (see red arrows on above map, that you're struggling with).
Some even via Canada. They carry visas and visiting permits, then overstay. Upwards to 1/2 of all illegal immigrants in the US arrive this way, and will continue to do so, even if the proposed wall were to get erected.
They arrive in shipping containers, on ships that travel "Those big blue areas on the map are water"

I'm talking about illegal immigrants. All of them.

You're talking about stopping the brown folks from scurrying across your wee desert. They make up a small percentage of the total illegal immigration problem.

I'm suggesting you take funding for border control and illegal immigration - which. BTW, is in the proposed budget, I believe, only with a caveat that Trump not use it on a wall - and use it to improve patrols, training, staffing, and security or ALL the borders and points of entry. A far better ROI on security and immigration than the proposed wall would be.

But the tribal partisanship that you are actively part of can't reconcile that in your brain. You see only wall and Trump and Republican, and potential Democrat (bad, bad Dems!) voters streaming unfettered through your desert.

Tell me more about what I don't know about maps and hiking, and the importation of Democrat voters. Remarkable, ridiculous stuff!

 

[bellisarius]

Why yes. I suspect undocumented border crossers are taking the path of least resistance.

Which, apparently, is Klinkster's back yard.

Texas is NOT a sanctuary state, like CA. With the exception of short sections of the river, the Big Bed, and a state park all of the land is privately held and relatively densely populated as compared to AZ. and NM. The local law enforcement has the resources to round them up and turn them over to ICE. And then there's the Border Patrol.

The cockroaches primarily funnel into CA. knowing that if they can make it in they can disappear into the woodwork.

Walls work, even high ranking democrats admit that. The only reason I can see why the Pelosi's etc. are against a wall is because it's Trumps idea and they don't want to give him a 'win', fuck the US citizens. This is a power struggle at the expense of the nation as a whole.

 

[Que]

It does if the Trump admin wants to include the Rio Grande in their count of miles of the border that need a physical barrier, to stop migrants fording the river. (Which Que seems to be suggesting is happening, while bellisarius seems to be suggesting they don't.)

The Rio Grande itself is not much of a barrier the problem is the terrain leading to and from the Rio Grande.

Once you cross the Rio Grande you still have to get somewhere you have to actually get to civilization at some point get picked up and taken on to your way. Denying the coyotes the ability to get vehicles into areas where they can pick up illegal aliens is going to impede the trade

Tijuana used to be the most common illegal entry point. Except for now there's a nice big wall there. Tada! Suddenly, they stopped crossing there. Now they cross in Arizona because it was the next easiest place to cross. Hardening a lot of the places that they cross in Arizona will shift them towards the Rio Grande. Which is longer and farther and harder to get to, or they would be doing it in greater numbers now.

Rivers might not be a great way to deny access but they sure are an easy thing to patrol. You have to come up for air sooner or later and you can't tunnel under a river. Unless you've got a Schwimvaagen you can't cross the river in a vehicle that's going to take you down the road. Rivers by definition are in the low point of a valley. That means you're easily visible as you make your way down to the river, and The observers are on an elevated position in order to be able to look down at the river and across to the other side.

Not at all like skirting your way through a shallow desert wash in the desert.

 

[Oblimo]

Flat terrain with enough vegetation to provide cover for hiding from patrols and shade in the hottest part of the day, but no so much that you have to pioneer a trail.

He's not kidding about ranches that have nothing but barb wire designed to keep cows in to keep people out. There is no difficulty at all getting past fences like that. Ranchland is pretty easy to get across by definition all that grazing keeps the vegetation down to where you can get through pretty easily.

Sounds like exactly the kind of territory that would greatly benefit from a physical barrier to me.

How many miles is it?

 

[Klinkster]

Newsflash...most of the illegal immigrants in the US do not arrive with water-filled milk jugs and tire sandals. That's the Kool-Aid talking, not facts.

A good number arrive with passports and documents - some these are fake, and some are real and belong to other folks.
They arrive in cars and trucks by land, and planes and boats (see red arrows on above map, that you're struggling with).
Some even via Canada. They carry visas and visiting permits, then overstay. Upwards to 1/2 of all illegal immigrants in the US arrive this way, and will continue to do so, even if the proposed wall were to get erected.
They arrive in shipping containers, on ships that travel "Those big blue areas on the map are water"

I'm talking about illegal immigrants. All of them.

You're talking about stopping the brown folks from scurrying across your wee desert. They make up a small percentage of the total illegal immigration problem.

I'm suggesting you take funding for border control and illegal immigration - which. BTW, is in the proposed budget, I believe, only with a caveat that Trump not use it on a wall - and use it to improve patrols, training, staffing, and security or ALL the borders and points of entry. A far better ROI on security and immigration than the proposed wall would be.

But the tribal partisanship that you are actively part of can't reconcile that in your brain. You see only wall and Trump and Republican, and potential Democrat (bad, bad Dems!) voters streaming unfettered through your desert.

Tell me more about what I don't know about maps and hiking, and the importation of Democrat voters. Remarkable, ridiculous stuff!

You must be from the same town as Oblimo.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Once you cross the Rio Grande you still have to get somewhere you have to actually get to civilization at some point get picked up and taken on to your way. Denying the coyotes the ability to get vehicles into areas where they can pick up illegal aliens is going to impede the trade

No, it won't. They'll just have vehicles on both sides of the wall.

 

[cowslinger64]

Texas is NOT a sanctuary state, like CA. With the exception of short sections of the river, the Big Bed, and a state park all of the land is privately held and relatively densely populated as compared to AZ. and NM. The local law enforcement has the resources to round them up and turn them over to ICE. And then there's the Border Patrol.

The cockroaches primarily funnel into CA. knowing that if they can make it in they can disappear into the woodwork.

Walls work, even high ranking democrats admit that. The only reason I can see why the Pelosi's etc. are against a wall is because it's Trumps idea and they don't want to give him a 'win', fuck the US citizens. This is a power struggle at the expense of the nation as a whole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ta-show/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c852eecb9785

But illegal border crossings represent a relatively small share of the number of people who enter the country, legally or otherwise, in any given year, according to the Department of Homeland Security's data.

A September 2017 Office of Immigration Statistics data brief estimated that in fiscal year 2016, the latest year for which complete data is available, there were 170,000 successful illegal border crossings occurring outside of authorized ports of entry. That's down roughly 90 percent since 2000, and it's about one-seventh of the roughly 1.2 million immigrants who obtained lawful permanent resident status via a green card, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

 

[Bill_Cosplay]

MY QUESTION. If it’s going to help the Yanks in the long run and pay for itself eventually, why is it that people don’t want him to build it?

The people who oppose need a cause. They need to fight. They're the ones that gravitated to the protesters in the history books, loved the fight against injustice, wanted to be in the pictures with the people who defied racism, etc.

Building a wall would be controlled acceptance. A filtering process for who the US says is good enough to enter and who the US says isn't good enough to be here. Well, that's not fair! Everyone deserves to be here! That's not true.

At some point you have to stop the fighting the battles that have been won and moved forward so that you can progress and build off what the generations that came before have accomplished.

The problem is that there aren't any more causes to really fight for. That's done in the US. But a wall and all the divide and separation that a wall symbolizes, well now that's something to STAND UP against.

 

[Que]

Newsflash...most of the illegal immigrants in the US do not arrive with water-filled milk jugs and tire sandals. That's the Kool-Aid talking, not facts.

A good number arrive with passports and documents - some these are fake, and some are real and belong to other folks.
They arrive in cars and trucks by land, and planes and boats (see red arrows on above map, that you're struggling with).
Some even via Canada. They carry visas and visiting permits, then overstay. Upwards to 1/2 of all illegal immigrants in the US arrive this way, and will continue to do so, even if the proposed wall were to get erected.
They arrive in shipping containers, on ships that travel "Those big blue areas on the map are water"

I'm talking about illegal immigrants. All of them.

You're talking about stopping the brown folks from scurrying across your wee desert. They make up a small percentage of the total illegal immigration problem.

I'm suggesting you take funding for border control and illegal immigration - which. BTW, is in the proposed budget, I believe, only with a caveat that Trump not use it on a wall - and use it to improve patrols, training, staffing, and security or ALL the borders and points of entry. A far better ROI on security and immigration than the proposed wall would be.

But the tribal partisanship that you are actively part of can't reconcile that in your brain. You see only wall and Trump and Republican, and potential Democrat (bad, bad Dems!) voters streaming unfettered through your desert.

Tell me more about what I don't know about maps and hiking, and the importation of Democrat voters. Remarkable, ridiculous stuff!

Arizona is full of Canadians. And guess what they have money and they're not dependent on government largesse. We don't give a damn about anybody overstaying their visa that has the money to support themselves. I'd be for open and unfettered immigration if we had no welfare state.

It is absolutely nothing to do with the color of their skin it has to do with their actual ability to contribute to society as opposed to being a net drain on our schools on our Section 8 programs on our food stamp programs and in other thing that we spend money on trying to win this alleged war on poverty.

When we talk about 20 million illegal aliens in this country we aren't talking about Canadians overstaying their visas. People that have the resources to do as you suggest are not the problem. Not only that they can easily go back with suitcases of money (,or wire transfers) to wherever they came from and do it all over again if they're in here participating with our society making money and spending money it's perfectly fine.

And no, you really don't know anything about hiking if you think you can carry a ladder through the desert to some wall get your jugs of water up and over the wall and continue on your way undetected.

Why exactly do you think the Democrats are opposed to spending money on a wall? They've never seen a boondoggle they didn't want to spend money on. Except this one.

 

[BotanyBoy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ta-show/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c852eecb9785

But illegal border crossings represent a relatively small share of the number of people who enter the country, legally or otherwise, in any given year, according to the Department of Homeland Security's data.

Yes, they are also some of the shadiest and most crime filled.

Not that anything like that matters to an open borders/immigration fan boy of the DNC.

 

[Adre]

Oh good. You have been to the border.

Not.

So I need to travel to the sun to know that it’s hot?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Arizona is full of Canadians. And guess what they have money and they're not dependent on government largesse. We don't give a damn about anybody overstaying their visa that has the money to support themselves. I'd be for open and unfettered immigration if we had no welfare state.

That's the problem though.....they want the unfettered immigration AND the welfare state.

 

[Kirkrapine]

The problem is that there aren't any more causes to really fight for. That's done in the US.

There's single-payer health care and a great deal besides.

 

[Que]

That's the problem though.....they want the unfettered immigration AND the welfare state.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Oh wait I think they call that the future of California.

 

[BotanyBoy]

There's single-payer health care and a great deal besides.

Yes, the cause of fucking other people and oppressing them unfairly so things can feel more fair to those who fucked up.


Totally the same as fighting against injustice and for civil rights.



Comrade.....put the DMT down.

 

[Klinkster]

So I need to travel to the sun to know that it’s hot?

Also from Oblimo's home country.

Since you are too s-l-o-w to understand.....

If you want to know what's going on at the border, GO THERE!

You won't learn it from watching CNN.
Proving then....you won't learn anything when your mind is closed, and you only will believe what you want to hear.

 

[phrodeau]

Arizona is full of Canadians. And guess what they have money and they're not dependent on government largesse. We don't give a damn about anybody overstaying their visa that has the money to support themselves. I'd be for open and unfettered immigration if we had no welfare state.

It is absolutely nothing to do with the color of their skin it has to do with their actual ability to contribute to society as opposed to being a net drain on our schools on our Section 8 programs on our food stamp programs and in other thing that we spend money on trying to win this alleged war on poverty.

When we talk about 20 million illegal aliens in this country we aren't talking about Canadians overstaying their visas. People that have the resources to do as you suggest are not the problem. Not only that they can easily go back with my suitcases of money to wherever they came from and do it all over again if they're in here participating with our society making money and spending money it's perfectly fine.

And no, you really don't know anything about hiking if you think you can carry a ladder through the desert to some wall get your jugs of water up and over the wall and continue on your way undetected.

Why exactly do you think the Democrats are opposed to spending money on a wall? They've never seen a boondoggle they didn't want to spend money on. Except this one.

Exactly how many billions will we taxpayers save on Section 8 and SNAP if we buy a southern border wall? I'm sure you can give us the amount, since you think people can say exactly how much CO2 will lead to a degree of global temperature change.

 

[Kirkrapine]

It is absolutely nothing to do with the color of their skin it has to do with their actual ability to contribute to society as opposed to being a net drain on our schools on our Section 8 programs on our food stamp programs and in other thing that we spend money on trying to win this alleged war on poverty.

That ended with the Johnson Admin.

 

[phrodeau]

Also from Oblimo's home country.

Since you are too s-l-o-w to understand.....

If you want to know what's going on at the border, GO THERE!

You won't learn it from watching CNN.
Proving then....you won't learn anything when your mind is closed, and you only will believe what you want to hear.

I have been to the border. I saw a few native Americans, but every other person was descended from immigrants.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Since you are too s-l-o-w to understand.....

If you want to know what's going on at the border, GO THERE!

Why don't you just tell us?

You won't learn it from watching CNN.

Lie.

 

[Klinkster]

Exactly how many billions will we taxpayers save on Section 8 and SNAP if we buy a southern border wall? I'm sure you can give us the amount, since you think people can say exactly how much CO2 will lead to a degree of global temperature change.

I posted a link on a study from the Center of Immigration Stuidies.

Find it Einstein....and read it.

No wait....don't....it may not agree with your left wing lunacy.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That ended with the Johnson Admin.

Then how come (D)'s have been riding that line for nearly 50 years?

How come they are pushing it now harder than ever?

 

[Oblimo]

The cockroaches primarily funnel into CA. knowing that if they can make it in they can disappear into the woodwork. Walls work, even high ranking democrats admit that.

California's border is already walled. But I'm having a hard time finding hard facts as to how much of the CA border's physical barriers are contiguous, or what condition they are in. But it sounds like you don't think they're not working.

 

[Klinkster]

Why don't you just tell us?

Tried. You, and others just tell me it's not true.

And being there....that's the real deal.