How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[ishtat]

False. If you look at the actual writings, they do not contain those details. Show me a copy of the actual writings saying that, not some guy who says that they say that. Just like the guy who claimed Horus walked on water, died and resurrected in 3 days, had 12 disciples, ect. Then you look at the ACTUAL writings about Horus and NONE of those details are in there. It was all a lie fabricated to try and discredit Jesus Christ.

Now where did I mention Horus? My comment mentioned the Sumerian writings and you might notice that DCL provided an original text a couple of posts back.

And if what you said about Horus was remotely correct it doesn't get around the fact that Horus and his story are way older than JC. But if it's any comfort, the Jesus myths are no more truthful or false than the myths of earlier or later creeds.

 

[Led_Astray]

Actually, it occurs to me that we have been remarkably generous with even providing alternative examples of ressurection to refute the claims that its the thing that puts Christianity ahead of other religions in the quest to be the one true religion.

Because, sorry Christians, you don't have "The Resurrection of Christ" as part of your "proof". You have a book. The story of the resurrection appears in one book. Your book. There are no contemporary historic accounts of it (and you'd think *somebody* in the roman bureaucracy would have considered all something like that worth writing down), all we have is its mention in the bible.

So we come down to - You have a book, which you believe to be true.

But so does almost every other religion. Whether it be the Torah, the Q'ran, the Guru Granth Sahib, The Vedas, The Tripitaka, The Agam Literature, The Kojiki... Not to mention The Catholic Bible (73 canonical books) or the Protestant Bible ( 66 canonical books)

So, back to my original question: Give us something, anything, from your religion to show it is the correct one that somebody following a different religion could not also give us.

Or, to put it anther way, if I have to choose a religion, and it has to be a monotheistic one, why should I be Christian instead of, say, Sikh?

 

[Tryharder62]

This doctrine has been meshed and pieced together from a variety of conflicting and contradictory bible verses, so it's not surprising that only the evangelical, Protestant, fundamentalists actually believe it. Only by means of taking entire passages out of context and ignoring others does one actually arrive at this hastily strung together dogma of "salvation by grace through faith."

Or perhaps Protestants read Ephesians

Ephesians 2:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[phrodeau]

Or perhaps Protestants read Ephesians

Ephesians 2:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I like that one. It takes the deal completely out of our hands. God can either allow us into Heaven or not, and there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Or perhaps Protestants read Ephesians

Ephesians 2:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Again ignoring contradictory passages in James, such as James 2:14-24

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

 

[Tryharder62]

I like that one. It takes the deal completely out of our hands. God can either allow us into Heaven or not, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Not true - you can always say no. If you don't believe why are you worried about heaven?

 

[God_Above]

Now where did I mention Horus?

Whores? Where? Bring them on!

 

[Tryharder62]

Again ignoring contradictory passages in James, such as James 2:14-24

Absolutely not ignoring James.

Paul is saying that we can be saved through faith alone. James is saying that the evidence of that faith should be good works. Good works but no faith is not going to bring a person salvation.

This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

 

[colddiesel]

Sola Fide - Resurrection by faith alone

This song/hymn was written by a Norwegian Lutheran in collaboration with an Irish Catholic. First successfully performed by a Jew, in this instance it is performed by a Moslem, a black Baptist and with support from assorted, Confucians, Buddhists and Taoists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvUwLSOyfA

All are singing the praises of God and I suspect he finds their devotion far more acceptable than that of fundamentalist buffoons.

The pernicious notion of Salvation by faith alone is confined to protestant sects particularly fundamentalists like Xfrodo and Tryharder. Despite the fact that all the people in this video are singing the praises of God, Xfrodo and Tryharder condemn them to eternal damnation Xfrodo and Tryharder together, with their fellow so called Christians have the unparraleled arrogance to set themselves up as the gatekeepers of Gods Kingdom. I suspect he might reserve that decision to himself .

This doctrine has had numerous vicious spinoffs. Racism for example is a characteristic of fundamentalist protestantism . It is comparatively rare in Catholic societies for example. At its worst the doctrine divides people into an elect and 'others' who are destined to hell. From that point it is all too easy to discriminate against those who do not conform to this evil doctrine.

Tryharder and Xfrodo are going to hell, a hell of their own making founded on this utterly "unchristian" doctrine.

I'm not surprised that you did not click on the link Ishtat provided. It shows clearly that "other" religions have faith too - just as legitimate as yours. Listen to these people and get outside of your comfort zone for a few seconds.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Now where did I mention Horus? My comment mentioned the Sumerian writings and you might notice that DCL provided an original text a couple of posts back.

And if what you said about Horus was remotely correct it doesn't get around the fact that Horus and his story are way older than JC. But if it's any comfort, the Jesus myths are no more truthful or false than the myths of earlier or later creeds.

I NEVER said you mentioned Horus. I compared the situation to Horus which was also a fake. The Bible really is true and the God of the Bible really is the true God. All of the evidence is going to point that way and does.

 

[God_Above]

The Bible really is true and the God of the Bible really is the true God. All of the evidence is going to point that way and does.

Are you willing to bet your Soul on that?

 

[Tryharder62]

The pernicious notion of Salvation by faith alone is confined to protestant sects particularly fundamentalists like Xfrodo and Tryharder. Despite the fact that all the people in this video are singing the praises of God, Xfrodo and Tryharder condemn them to eternal damnation Xfrodo and Tryharder together, with their fellow so called Christians have the unparraleled arrogance to set themselves up as the gatekeepers of Gods Kingdom. I suspect he might reserve that decision to himself .

This doctrine has had numerous vicious spinoffs. Racism for example is a characteristic of fundamentalist protestantism . It is comparatively rare in Catholic societies for example. At its worst the doctrine divides people into an elect and 'others' who are destined to hell. From that point it is all too easy to discriminate against those who do not conform to this evil doctrine.

Tryharder and Xfrodo are going to hell, a hell of their own making founded on this utterly "unchristian" doctrine.

I'm not surprised that you did not click on the link Ishtat provided. It shows clearly that "other" religions have faith too - just as legitimate as yours. Listen to these people and get outside of your comfort zone for a few seconds.

Yes, of course, believing in Christ is an Un-Christian doctrine.

You know you declaring that I am going to hell had me laughing so hard I almost peed my pants. So it is not OK with you to discriminate against people of other beliefs, but since I am a protestant it is OK to discriminate against me.

Listen, you write like you know me and you don't. It is so funny. My Catholic friends are wonderful. In fact my job is running the health ministry of a Catholic Church. They know I am Protestant. Glad they don't discriminate like you do.

I did listen to the Ishtat's song. Again you don't know me because I thought it was beautiful. I don't judge people for the path they chose to follow in this life. I have just decided the path for my life is Jesus. I do want to share the good news of that because when I find something so life altering and special I want everyone to have it.

Not ashamed to say I believe and I have been redeemed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzGAYNKDyIU

 

[Led_Astray]

Are you willing to bet your Soul on that?

I already traded my soul for a unicorn.

 

[colddiesel]

Yes, of course, believing in Christ is an Un-Christian doctrine.

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzGAYNKDyIU

Yes, proclaiming a belief in Christ is distinctly un-christian when the supposed believer seeks to brand his or her particular product as the only right one. You and Xfrodo do this every other post - every post in Xfrodo's case. You claim to be inclusive on one hand and then adhere to fundamental doctrinal exclusivity on the other. Can't do both.

 

[Tryharder62]

Yes, proclaiming a belief in Christ is distinctly un-christian when the supposed believer seeks to brand his or her particular product as the only right one. You and Xfrodo do this every other post - every post in Xfrodo's case. You claim to be inclusive on one hand and then adhere to fundamental doctrinal exclusivity on the other. Can't do both.

All I can say is that no matter who you are God loves you and will welcome you. You are right in that you do have to make a choice at some point. There is no "feel good" philosophy that anything you choose to do is OK.

So colddiesel what is your truth? What do you believe?

 

[God_Above]

You know you declaring that I am going to hell had me laughing so hard I almost peed my pants.

You won't be laughing when the time comes. Trust me.

The pee thing .... you're on the right website for that kind of fetish.

 

[Tryharder62]

You won't be laughing when the time comes. Trust me.

The pee thing .... you're on the right website for that kind of fetish.

I just go with the flow.

 

[Led_Astray]

Or, to put it anther way, if I have to choose a religion, and it has to be a monotheistic one, why should I be Christian instead of, say, Sikh?

Feel like I'm being ignored. Is the question too difficult?

 

[runsilent]

Found a typo.

sector14/7k/d47



It does say I had sex my daughters in a cave while but they drugged me. It was their idea. Roofies in ancient times

Says ignore that

I love to play with super happy fun ball.

OK. That might say the same thing.

 

[tiny_tits]

I must admit, I thought this thread would die after the first few posts.
Shows what I know.

 

[Tryharder62]

Feel like I'm being ignored. Is the question too difficult?

The Billy Graham Association says it best.

The difference between the religions you’ve been studying and Christianity can be summarized in two words: Jesus Christ. He is the center and foundation of the Christian faith, and He also is the reason why Christianity is different from all the other religions that people follow.

Let me explain it this way. All the religions you’ve been studying have one thing in common: they all are searching for God (even if they don’t call Him God, or they think there may be many gods and goddesses). They do this in a multitude of ways—but they’re all trying to find God and gain His favor by their sacrifices and good deeds.

But Christianity is different. Instead of us searching for God—God is searching for us! Instead of us reaching up to God—God is reaching down to us! This is why Jesus is so important, because He came down from Heaven to do for us what we could never do for ourselves: bring us to God. God is perfect and holy, and we are separated from Him by our sins. No matter how hard we try, we cannot erase the stain of sin by ourselves. But by His death and resurrection Christ did this for us.

I sense that down inside you are searching for God. But God is also searching for you!

 

[phrodeau]

God is searching for me? I'm pretty sure He has my address. His sales reps come to my doorstep often enough.

 

[Led_Astray]

The Billy Graham Association says it best.

The difference between the religions you’ve been studying and Christianity can be summarized in two words: Jesus Christ. He is the center and foundation of the Christian faith, and He also is the reason why Christianity is different from all the other religions that people follow.

"Our religion is different because our book describes a special person who founded it."

Sorry, no. Again, that's true for many religions. Islam and Sikhism in particular have a specific person who, after being given a message from god, spread the word.

Any claim you make about Jesus "I feel him in my heart, he has spoken to me, etc) can be made about their own significant religious figures by pretty much any other religion.

Let me explain it this way. All the religions you’ve been studying have one thing in common: they all are searching for God (even if they don’t call Him God, or they think there may be many gods and goddesses). They do this in a multitude of ways—but they’re all trying to find God and gain His favor by their sacrifices and good deeds.

Again, no.

The old Testament is, in part, an adaption of the Torah. if you believe in the old testament, then you believe that the Jewish people of that time were regularly being given instructions directly from God. How then are they trying to find god? They found him - and in many cases, conversed with him - long before Jesus was even born.

In Islam, Muhammad was visited by an angel sent by god (Gabriel, to be exact) who gave him quite clear revelations. These revelations continued throughout his life. So again, rather than Muslims trying to find god, it appears God actively sought out and fount Muhammad

And the founder of Sikhism vanished for three days whilst bathing in a river, leading his friends to believe he had somehow drowned. Three days later he emerged from the river, having spent those three days with god, receiving instructions. So again, God sought out Guru Nanak, so his followers have already been found by god.

***

Of course, you could claim that there books are just made up stories, (except you can't do that for Judaism, for the reason already given above) but I can say exactly that about the bible with just as much authority.

I sense that down inside you are searching for God. But God is also searching for you!

I'm not searching for that genocidal, baby murdering, slavery-condoning, mysogynistic, jealous lunatic, thank you. I have no need of his arbitrary rules (I hate growing beards, and enjoy sea-food too much to give up shellfish).

Pretty sure he's not searching for me. Because if he is omnicogniscent, he already knows exactly where I am. Plus, of course, the minor detail that he almost certainly doesn't exist.

 

[Tryharder62]

God is searching for me? I'm pretty sure He has my address. His sales reps come to my doorstep often enough.

God wants a relationship with you!

"Our religion is different because our book describes a special person who founded it."

That seems like a no-brainer to me.

Pretty sure he's not searching for me. Because if he is omnicogniscent, he already knows exactly where I am. Plus, of course, the minor detail that he almost certainly doesn't exist.

He wants a relationship with you too. It's interesting to me that after all your negative ranting the sentence you end with doesn't say there's absolutely no God, but it says that he almost certainly doesn't exist. I think. Hmmm almost. What if he does?

Some good reading if you want to look into it further is The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel was an atheist that worked for the Chicago Tribune. He was not thrilled when his wife became a Christian. He began on a journey of looking at the evidence for Christ. Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels by J. Warner Wallace is another good one. J. Warner Wallace was an atheist homicide detective who decided to look at the case for Christ like a cold Case. Lastly is a book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. As a young man, Josh McDowell considered himself an agnostic. He truly believed that Christianity was worthless. However, when challenged to intellectually examine the claims of Christianity, Josh discovered compelling, overwhelming evidence for the reliability of the Christian faith.

The additional evidence that I can give is a life changed.......mine. I truly wish you every happiness in your journey.

Kath

 

[IG_88]

Maybe there's a God above
But all I've ever learned from love
Was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya