High School Shooting In Florida

[Dribble]

Nope. That's the wrong chart. What we're looking for here is, How many guns, used in murders, were purchased lawfully."

Perfectly correct chart for this thread. How did people vote...and for what. Lot of information there. Have fun .

 

[Que]

Since you are interested in lawful gun pirchases:

"A 2000 report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms found that in 1998, more than 85 percent of gun dealers had no guns used in crimes trace back to them. By contrast, 1 percent of dealers accounted for nearly 6 in 10 crime gun traces that year." -miami herald quoting BATF report.

Get that?

85% of dealers have NEVER had a gun traced back to them. that would include guns that they sold legitimately to an obviously responsible party who then through no fault of his own had it actually stolen enter the black market and then be used in a crime. 85% of dealers have never even had that happen.

Care to guess where the 1% of the dealers account for 60% of all gun crimes are located and what their clientele look like? they aren't rednecks. Just a hint.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

See above: re The Dumb Shit Argument.

And yes, drunk driving laws do "work".

Drunk Driving Fatalities

\

Yea....we have them already and they don't work.

d:

 

[Hypoxia]

You both demonize the other party instead of trying to understand where they're coming from.

No demonization; simple truth. More firearms in circulation means more firearms deaths. That's amply supported by facts. Accepting more firearms in circulation means accepting more firearms deaths. Those who support that policy, own it. How would you characterize those who accept slaughter as a way of life? I call them scum.

 

[Que]

See above: re The Dumb Shit Argument.

And yes, drunk driving laws do "work".

Drunk Driving Fatalities

Why is it that the left has to lie and distort and use ridiculous and analogies but then they deny the right of the other side to use actual logical correct analogies. When they want to talk about accidents with Firearms we can't talk about accidents with pools even those those those are directly analogous.

Drivers aren't getting safer or more sober car accidents are more survivable due to modern materials, manufacturing techniques, crash testing, advanced computer modeling, advanced engineering, and modern equipment such as airbags.

Trauma medicine has improved as well.

Along those lines, this tragedy and every weekend in Chicago would be more deadly if not for the ignorance about ammunition and shooting that most criminals and psychos fortunately suffer from.

 

[BotanyBoy]

See above: re The Dumb Shit Argument.

And yes, drunk driving laws do "work".

Drunk Driving Fatalities

From your own source...

" For every 100,000 Americans under the age of 21, 1.2 people were killed in drunk driving fatalities in 2016."


Apparently not.

 

[Que]

No demonization; simple truth. Less LEGAL firearms in circulation means more rape, robbery, assault, and murder. That's amply supported by facts. Restricting LEGAL firearms in circulation means accepting more firearm preventable crimes. Those who support that policy, own it. How would you characterize those who accept assault, rape, robbery, and slaughter as a way of life? I call them scum.

I'll take it a step further: anyone who would deny a law abiding person the right to legally defend themselves with the most suitable equipment available deserve any crime visited upon them.

 

[BobBalouski]

Tff...

Watching a show online where a conservative host, a conservative guest and a progressive guest are discussing gun control issues because of Parkland, with the prog totally gun control, the con guest total no gun control, and the con host injecting the biggest problem is cultural. What's interesting about this discussion is that there's blatantly obvious, shared frustrated hostilities boiling and their just about to start brawling when the host starts wrapping it up, which prompts the prog to proclaim...

Surely one thing we can all agree on is that Nikolas Cruz and [the Las Vegas shooter] deserve to rot in hell!

...and all 3 do agree.



Yep: different statist labels, very same statist bottle pouring forth even more of its natural love for its ever-vengeful culture of death.

 

[Hypoxia]

blah blah

USA has by far the most firearms floating around. USA has by far the most firearms deaths. Connect the dots.

 

[Que]

Tff...

Watching a show online where a conservative host, a conservative guest and a progressive guest are discussing gun control issues because of Parkland, with the prog totally gun control, the con guest total no gun control, and the con host injecting the biggest problem is cultural. What's interesting about this discussion is that there's blatantly obvious, shared frustrated hostilities boiling and their just about to start brawling when the host starts wrapping it up, which prompts the prog to proclaim...

Surely one thing we can all agree on is that Nikolas Cruz and [the Las Vegas shooter] deserve to rot in hell!

...and all 3 do agree.



Yep: different statist labels, very same statist bottle pouring forth even more of its natural love for its ever-vengeful culture of death.

I dunno. I'm thinking just for subjecting me to the same tired arguments I am ready to join hypoxia in calling for outright torture.

Revulsion makes strange bedfellows.

On a semi serious note about crowd psychology I think the best way to discourage a future shooter is to allow this one to accidentally end up in the prison general population and televise the results.

I suspect there would be little resistance to my idea in, as you rightly point out, our culture that puts no value on life.

it's why no one really wants to do anything about Chicago or Baltimore or any other hell hole. For the most part nobody really cares about any of the perpetrators or victims and it adds a boogey man for the pro Law & Order on the right and it provides statistical fodder to vilify the NRA from the left look at all these people being killed with guns isn't that awful let's ban the NRA. as if crimes committed by criminals with guns that they committed a crime to obtain in the first place has any part of lawful discussion about law-abiding citizens keeping and bearing arms.

No one really cares about most crime victims. It's what makes these victims stand out.

 

[Que]

USA has by far the most firearms floating around. USA has by far the most firearms deaths. Connect the dots.

The US also has far and away the most criminals discouraged or outright executed with a firearm during the commission of a crime. Thats why you are scum. Leaving the poor and the vulnerable to be assaulted, robbed, raped, and/or murdered.

how about we split the difference? Would you agree that it be okay for a woman who's been raped once to keep and bear arms, so long as she passes a rigorous background check and psyche evaluation and appropriate training.

Like have a 1 rape rule. Once you've been raped once you can demonstrate to the state that you have a need to protect yourself. We can't just let any old person carry around a firearm in public unless they're part of the militia of course.

maybe do the same for robbery and assault if you can document that you've been robbed or assaulted in the past you can demonstrate that you have a need for a firearm. Murder you probably wouldn't be able to get one for because of course you've already been killed.

so what is a militia in your mind anyway? it's just a group of citizens that drill and March around with rifles in an organized fashion right? You know who has a really nice militia down in Mexico? In, amongst the unarmed populace? Yeah that would be the Zetas. They've got a great militia.

if the Obama administration's Fast and Furious program had worked as intended you would be able to fire back yeah all that violence in Mexico is only because of those unsavory American gun dealers. Except for we now know that was a lie.

But scum you and your ilk are. You seem rather fond of suggesting public hangings for this and that. what would you suggest be done with those willing to violate the Bill of Rights?

 

[BotanyBoy]

The US also has far and away the most criminals discouraged or outright executed with a firearm during the commission of a crime. Thats why you are scum. Leaving the poor and the vulnerable to be assaulted, robbed, raped, and/or murdered.

Progressive/leftist degenerates like Hypoxia WANT everyone to be a victim just like them.

They don't want to be responsible for their security so they must disarm everyone else and leave them as helpless as they are....

EQUALITY!~!
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wltz.gif

how about we split the difference? Would you agree that it be okay for a woman who's been raped once to keep and bear arms, so long as she passes a rigorous background check and psyche evaluation and appropriate training.

Nope...she needs to take that rape and hope for the best.

Not even the cops should have guns, because IN EUROPE!!!

Reports should be filed afterwards, but nobody should do anything to stop the actual rape, that might offend the rapist.

 

[St_mAnn]

The US also has far and away the most criminals discouraged or outright executed with a firearm during the commission of a crime. Thats why you are scum. Leaving the poor and the vulnerable to be assaulted, robbed, raped, and/or murdered.

how about we split the difference? Would you agree that it be okay for a woman who's been raped once to keep and bear arms, so long as she passes a rigorous background check and psyche evaluation and appropriate training.

Like have a 1 rape rule. Once you've been raped once you can demonstrate to the state that you have a need to protect yourself. We can't just let any old person carry around a firearm in public unless they're part of the militia of course.

maybe do the same for robbery and assault if you can document that you've been robbed or assaulted in the past you can demonstrate that you have a need for a firearm. Murder you probably wouldn't be able to get one for because of course you've already been killed.

so what is a militia in your mind anyway? it's just a group of citizens that drill and March around with rifles in an organized fashion right? You know who has a really nice militia down in Mexico? In, amongst the unarmed populace? Yeah that would be the Zetas. They've got a great militia.

if the Obama administration's Fast and Furious program had worked as intended you would be able to fire back yeah all that violence in Mexico is only because of those unsavory American gun dealers. Except for we now know that was a lie.

But scum you and your ilk are. You seem rather fond of suggesting public hangings for this and that. what would you suggest be done with those willing to violate the Bill of Rights?

^^^ Someone's hittin' the meth pipe pretty hard tonight.

Looks like he's got a derping buddy!

 

[BotanyBoy]

^^^ Someone's hittin' the meth pipe pretty hard tonight.

Not even once...not ever.

I may have spent a night or two in the trailer park but I'm not from it.




Edit: on the edit:


My mistake....tbf thought you didn't have a quote up so I was left to assume your ^^ were for me.

 

[Dribble]

Since you are interested in lawful gun pirchases:

"A 2000 report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms found that in 1998, more than 85 percent of gun dealers had no guns used in crimes trace back to them. By contrast, 1 percent of dealers accounted for nearly 6 in 10 crime gun traces that year." -miami herald quoting BATF report.

Get that?

85% of dealers have NEVER had a gun traced back to them. that would include guns that they sold legitimately to an obviously responsible party who then through no fault of his own had it actually stolen enter the black market and then be used in a crime. 85% of dealers have never even had that happen.

Care to guess where the 1% of the dealers account for 60% of all gun crimes are located and what their clientele look like? they aren't rednecks. Just a hint.

Should I school you in stats? Lets simplify things. How many gun stores are in Wyoming? Now...how many people are in Wyoming? Yet, crime is surprisingly high. But if I told you that the majority of gun stores in Wyoming do not have guns traced back to them...why do you think this is?

Answer...the guns are being purchased in high population areas. The majority of gun stores in Wyoming...are in the middle of fucking no where. There is no crime there...cause people don't steal cattle much anymore.


Same applies to your data.

 

[Hypoxia]

I dunno. I'm thinking just for subjecting me to the same tired arguments I am ready to join hypoxia in calling for outright torture.

Revulsion makes strange bedfellows.

Thanks for that much!

On a semi serious note about crowd psychology I think the best way to discourage a future shooter is to allow this one to accidentally end up in the prison general population and televise the results.

No, the best way to discourage future shooters is to block their existence by denying them deadly firearms. A member of a well-regulated militia tasked to defend the nation, carrying under strict conditions, is fine. Anyone else is a rogue, an explicit danger to society.

That concept will eventually sink in. America will eventually tire of kids and other citizens being slaughtered in an epidemic of gunpowder addiction, a serious mental disease. America will eventually figure out that the "citizen militia" model preferred over a standing army is obsolete. The rationale for bearing personal arms no longer exists. The invented excuses, protection and resistance, don't work. More personal guns means less security, not more, and rednecks with AKs and ARs won't outgun the feds. Cf. Waco.

No, I don't advocate confiscation or bans, or annulling the 2nd amendment. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But a SCOTUS ruling to ENFORCE the entire 2nd can make all the difference. While they're at it, they can stop gov't funds going to churches, a clear violation of the 1st. But that's another matter.

 

[BotanyBoy]

A member of a well-regulated militia tasked to defend the nation, carrying under strict conditions, is fine.

That concept will eventually sink in.

It's also not a prerequisite to 2A rights.

And no it won't because the USA has a high literacy rate, a demographic you're clearly not part of.

But a SCOTUS ruling to ENFORCE the entire 2nd can make all the difference.

They already do, you just can't read.

 

[Que]

Not even the 1 robbery rule?

Because my state is sensible I haven't really kept up with the other states because I am aware of the difference between shall issue and May issue language in various laws regarding the basically unconstitutional concept of having people apply for a permit to carry.

Open carry is pretty stupid because it is both rude it is provocative and you're going to be the first guy shot in the head in the middle of a robbery. I mean I guess if you get enough cowboys walking around openly "heeled" old west-style then I suppose it might be a deterrent. I actually have seen real cowboys in working leather chaps and regular old west style, low-slung, tooled-leather holsters carrying colts, probably carring snake-shot to wow the tourists with...

anyway where I was going with this is concealed weapons permit back when it was hard to get one and they weren't really procedures and classes and shall issue where people that could show that they regularly carted around enough stuff to make it worth robbing them. Which is pretty stupid because when your car turnaround stuff worth a lot of money you don't try to go around looking like you're worth robbing but on the other hand anybody is a potential robbery Target. the juicy targets don't look like juicy targets when you get robbed it's just happenchance.

you almost had to show that you had had a robbery attempt or were highly likely to have a robbery attempt in order to get a permit. long before I knew anything at all about guns I met a guy who was the one that introduced me to guns but he had one because he used to chaperone Jewelers that needed to get jewels from this store to the next and so forth. this led to him doing some executive protection we just met him tagging along with someone who just felt a little more comfortable having someone with a gun who knew how to use it tagging along with them.

as you correctly pointed out it is the height of elitism to suggest that only people that can afford to hire other people that know how to use guns should have protection.

that's where we're going with everything you have to have the government say it's okay for that guy to be hired by you to cut your hair or to grow your food or to sell the food to you or to prepare the food for you or whatever. It's absurd. All of it..

 

[BotanyBoy]

as you correctly pointed out it is the height of elitism to suggest that only people that can afford to hire other people that know how to use guns should have protection.

that's where we're going with everything you have to have the government say it's okay for that guy to be hired by you to cut your hair or to grow your food or to sell the food to you or to prepare the food for you or whatever. It's absurd. All of it..

Where we're going?

We're already there man....we're shooting farmers for feeding homeless people without a licence and SWAT teaming 9 y/o girls lemonade stands and lawn boys.

If California does it and the SCOTUS doesn't bitch slap them for it? Everyone else follows suit.

It's just a matter of time before Texans need permits to wipe their own ass or 10,000 dollar fine for not hiring a "professional" ass wiper who's licensed through the state to do it for them.

 

[coachdb18]

TNo, I don't advocate confiscation or bans, or annulling the 2nd amendment. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But a SCOTUS ruling to ENFORCE the entire 2nd can make all the difference.

I do believe we have an advocate for amending Obamacare, to require everyone to buy and carry a gun for their personal health protection, or pay a fine and face an IRS penalty. Enforce the second amendment by requiring every citizen be armed, and thus EVERY citizen then becomes a member of the militia.

 

[Que]

Not even once...not ever.

I may have spent a night or two in the trailer park but I'm not from it.




Edit: on the edit:


My mistake....tbf thought you didn't have a quote up so I was left to assume your ^^ were for me.

I'd have said the same, except why bother, and the only times I've lived in a trailer was owned on an acre, and borrowed on a windy bluff.

Not that my current digs in the Barrio would be a step up from the trailer park but I just don't have a lot of white trash in my vicinity. I'm the lone blanco vato loco.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

So let's be clear then.

In order for a law to "work," that means no one ever breaks it, ever. (according to you)

From the same article:

since the advent of tough DUI laws in the early 80s (because of MADD and a bunch of other things) drunk driving deaths went down 51% in adults and 80% in 21 and under.

By that definition, a law is "working" when it significantly lowers the deaths or occurrences associated with it. If had no effect on the statistics, I'd say it wasn't "working."

DUMB SHIT ARGUMENT #2: No laws work because crime.

From your own source...

" For every 100,000 Americans under the age of 21, 1.2 people were killed in drunk driving fatalities in 2016."


Apparently not.

 

[Que]

Thanks for that much!


No, the best way to discourage future shooters is to block their existence by denying them deadly firearms. A member of a well-regulated militia tasked to defend the nation, carrying under strict conditions, is fine. Anyone else is a rogue, an explicit danger to society.

That concept will eventually sink in. America will eventually tire of kids and other citizens being slaughtered in an epidemic of gunpowder addiction, a serious mental disease. America will eventually figure out that the "citizen militia" model preferred over a standing army is obsolete. The rationale for bearing personal arms no longer exists. The invented excuses, protection and resistance, don't work. More personal guns means less security, not more, and rednecks with AKs and ARs won't outgun the feds. Cf. Waco.

No, I don't advocate confiscation or bans, or annulling the 2nd amendment. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But a SCOTUS ruling to ENFORCE the entire 2nd can make all the difference. While they're at it, they can stop gov't funds going to churches, a clear violation of the 1st. But that's another matter.

Yeah, I'll see your tanks at Waco and raise you an insurgency and I EDs CF. OK city. You lose.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

This is what I read:


blah blah blah THE LEFT blah blah blah blah blah

Why is it that the left has to lie and distort and use ridiculous and analogies but then they deny the right of the other side to use actual logical correct analogies. When they want to talk about accidents with Firearms we can't talk about accidents with pools even those those those are directly analogous.

Drivers aren't getting safer or more sober car accidents are more survivable due to modern materials, manufacturing techniques, crash testing, advanced computer modeling, advanced engineering, and modern equipment such as airbags.

Trauma medicine has improved as well.

Along those lines, this tragedy and every weekend in Chicago would be more deadly if not for the ignorance about ammunition and shooting that most criminals and psychos fortunately suffer from.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'd have said the same, except why bother, and the only times I've lived in a trailer was owned on an acre, and borrowed on a windy bluff.

Not that my current digs in the Barrio would be a step up from the trailer park but I just don't have a lot of white trash in my vicinity. I'm the lone blanco vato loco.

Meh....I don't even care at this point...spending money on what? A bunch of nice shit that just sits and rots, costs money.

I'm about to go find a cheap ass 1b1b with a workshop somewhere it gets cold AF and stays that way.

I miss being chino loco....but I don't miss Tejas's summers LOL fuck that noise.

So let's be clear then.

In order for a law to "work," that means no one ever breaks it, ever.

Well if the law worked would people break it?

By that definition, a law is "working" when it significantly lowers the deaths or occurrences associated with it.

Ohhhh is there a citation for that???

If had no effect on the statistics, I'd say it wasn't "working."

Ahh so it's just opinion here, with yours smelling just as bad as any other.

DUMB SHIT ARGUMENT #2: No laws work because crime.

That would be a dumb shit argument, why did you come up with it?