Let's talk about fascism

[BotanyBoy]

There was no semblance of "socialism" under any fascist regime.

You mean other than that whole iron fisted government control over the means of production, exchange and distribution of goods?

The social control right down to peoples very thoughts......

Nah...it's TOTALLY different when Socialist engage in the EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR.

Bumping this for the people who need a clue.

LOL......trying to convince more people that socialism = good shtuff (D)'s like and Fascism = evil things like republicans and white people???

 

[Que]

Bumping this for the people who need a clue.

That's a really weird comment. You obviously knew nothing about what fascism is and isn't when you started the thread, several people in the thread tried to explain it to you, you still don't understand it , nd you bumped the thread for the clueless?

 

[richard_daily]

That's a really weird comment. You obviously knew nothing about what fascism is and isn't when you started the thread, several people in the thread tried to explain it to you, you still don't understand it , nd you bumped the thread for the clueless?

I know what fascism is. So do most people who don't lean that direction, and who want to hide their proclivities.

What do you think fascism is?

 

[richard_daily]

You mean other than that whole iron fisted government control over the means of production, exchange and distribution of goods?

The social control right down to peoples very thoughts......

Nah...it's TOTALLY different when Socialist engage in the EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR.




LOL......trying to convince more people that socialism = good shtuff (D)'s like and Fascism = evil things like republicans and white people???

Which socialists call or the jailing of gay people, trade unionists, and violent uprisings based on nationality and race?

 

[Disgustipated]

I know what fascism is. So do most people who don't lean that direction, and who want to hide their proclivities.

What do you think fascism is?

He thinks the same way Ken does. Not really surprising.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Which socialists call or the jailing of gay people, trade unionists, and violent uprisings based on nationality and race?

They call for the jailing of capitalist, free thinkers and any uprisings that challenge the current political dogma.

Different motivations, same behavior.

Fascism is just a different genre of socialism, both anti-liberal and anti-capitalist....anti-American.

 

[richard_daily]

They call for the jailing of capitalist, free thinkers and any uprisings that challenge the current political dogma.

Different motivations, same behavior.

Fascism is just a different genre of socialism, both anti-liberal and anti-capitalist....anti-American.

No, fascism and liberal socialism are diametrically opposed.

No one is calling for the jailing of capitalists "free-thinkers", and any uprisings that challenge the current political dogma. I challenge you to show me any mainstream socialist, democratic, or liberal viewpoint that offers that.

It is not the same behavior.

You're defending people who would have you killed based on your heritage. That's your choice. There was once a black nazi who lived near me. He didn't get it either.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, fascism and liberal socialism are diametrically opposed.

"Liberal socialism" is an oxymoron and doesn't really exist and is as funny as "liberal fascism" lol.

There is nothing liberal about socialism.

No one is calling for the jailing of capitalists "free-thinkers", and any uprisings that challenge the current political dogma. I challenge you to show me any mainstream socialist, democratic, or liberal viewpoint that offers that.

Seriously? LOL yes there are.....
http://www.berkeleyside.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC4923-900x601.jpg

Check the hate speech laws in a lot of other 1st world western socialist states like Canada and the UK......conform to the "progressive" socialist way of thought or we'll put you in jail.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jai...rome..69i57.4159j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You're defending people who would have you killed based on your heritage.

I'm not defending anyone, being a liberal I can't stand either brand of power thirsty control freak. Fuck both brands of tyrannical bullshit.

I just don't think the racists are any better or worse than people who would have me killed (or effectively killed through incarceration) for daring to make a living for myself or not being politically correct or offending one of the pet classes or just for being born to a white woman maybe?

Besides the left isn't far off from wanting to jail white people for being white.

Gotta check that privilege!!

It is not the same behavior.

Bullshit...both psycho control freaks out to control my mind and my money via government force.

 

[richard_daily]

"Liberal socialism" is an oxymoron and doesn't really exist.

There is nothing liberal about socialism.



Seriously? LOL yes there are.....
http://www.berkeleyside.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC4923-900x601.jpg

Check the hate speech laws in a lot of other 1st world western socialist states like Canada and the UK......conform to the "progressive" socialist way of thought or we'll put you in jail.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jai...rome..69i57.4159j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



I'm not defending anyone, being a liberal I can't stand either brand of power thirsty control freak.

I just don't think the racists are any better or worse than people who would have me killed (or effectively killed through incarceration) for daring to make a living for myself or not being politically correct.



Bullshit...both psycho control freaks out to control my mind and my money via government force.

You're equating a guy burning a sign with the actions of nazis, and other ultra-right nationalists?

That's a pretty weak comparison.

I challenge you to find any group which protests nazis that wants to have you jailed for "daring to make a living for (your)self and not being politically correct".

 

[BotanyBoy]

You're equating a guy burning a sign with the actions of nazis, and other ultra-right nationalists?


That's a pretty weak comparison.

Well if you want to get all historical instead of talking about just the last few years let's talk about what the left has been up to in the past 200 years.

Should we start with the cannibalism in Soviet Russia or the labor camps Mao slaved millions to death in??

Because on that scale team lefty makes the Nazis look like cub scouts.

I challenge you to find a single person in any of the anti-nazi protest that wants to have you jailed for "daring to make a living for (your)self and not being politically correct".

They openly support anti-free speech laws man, wake up and read something other than an SJW propaganda rag for once.

That group protesting the Nazi's is the same group of dipshit leftist burning the free speech sign at Berkeley.

They are the same people that want to SWAT team lawn boys and little kids for lemonade stands....evil little capitalist pigs!!! They fucking HATE capitalism and want it banned, so yes they do want me jailed for making a living for myself.

 

[water505]

Richard is back. Here come the lies, willful ignorance, and stupidity. Nobody does it better.

 

[Disgustipated]

Richard is back. Here come the lies, willful ignorance, and stupidity. Nobody does it better.

That's not true, miles. Your comeback was especially terrible. Don't short change yourself!

 

[Que]

I know what fascism is. So do most people who don't lean that direction, and who want to hide their proclivities.

What do you think fascism is?

Where to begin?

You obviously don't even have the basics about what fascism is and are conflating things that fascist regimes engaged in with the underpinnings of what fascism is.

This leads to you spouting the following nonsense, still:

Which socialists call or the jailing of gay people, trade unionists, and violent uprisings based on nationality and race?

No, fascism and liberal socialism are diametrically opposed.

No one is calling for the jailing of capitalists "free-thinkers", and any uprisings that challenge the current political dogma. I challenge you to show me any mainstream socialist, democratic, or liberal viewpoint that offers that.

It is not the same behavior.

You're defending people who would have you killed based on your heritage. That's your choice. There was once a black nazi who lived near me. He didn't get it either.

Cognitive dissonance.

"Behavior" of those running an authoritarian regime is not a system of governance. Yes, one can assume that any authoritarian regime of any stripe is eventually going to engage in atrocities because that's what authoritarians do. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Your exampkes above are like saying that just because Stalin sent people to the gulag, the communism is about direct slavery which it isn't. The atrocities that any form of authoritarian state engages in (because it can) does not make it the raison d'etre of that system.

Why don't you start with strasserism and work your way forward untll you have a basic understanding of the differences and similarities between different ideas about governance from that family tree. I only suggest that you compare strasserism and hitlerism as a basis because you seem to think that fascism was invented and rose in Nazi Germany. Wouldn't want to confuse you with Mussolini's version.

But to directly answer your question fascism always involves a totalitarian, controlling state with control of industry. It has a lot more in common with socialism than it has differences which is why the National Socialist Party embraced it.

Yhe only reason the term is fascist as being thrown around is because it's an easy way to get around the problem of violating Godwin's law when you're calling your opponent a nazi, which is sort of the point of this whole discussion.

Since you have some actual fans of the Third Reich involved in this latest little brouhaha why not simply call them Nazis and not bother with your fascist label?

 

[BotanyBoy]

But you directly answer your question fascism involves a always a totalitarian state and control of industry. It has a lot more in common with socialism than it has differences which is why the National Socialist Party embraced it.

You're talking to someone who thinks no amount of iron fisted regulation and control over the markets/industries is socialism, only official state ownership is socialism.

Effective state control =/= socialism, that's capitalism because rich people have too much money n' stuff!!

Oh and that the US currently operates under a capitalist economic system.

LOL

 

[Que]

You're talking to someone who thinks no amount of iron fisted regulation and control over the markets/industries is socialism, only official state ownership, no effective state ownership = socialism.

Oh and that the US currently operates under a capitalist economic system.

LOL

I was reading an interesting article today by a liberal Professor who was bemoaning the fact that his liberal students are not prepared to debate anything that they only want to announce their spot in identity politics and shut out any other debate because you can't know who they are or not qualified to have a debate about a subject that only a black person can speak about black issues and so on.

The problem is their ideas and opinions can't stand up to actual debate so they avoid it at all costs.

There are no labels that ever apply because they're constantly rebranding as if the same ideas repackaged are different. No historic label that any collectivist, socialist, communist redistributist is willing to accept because anytime you put a label on their ideas you can point to some place with the same label where they tried their ideas and those ideas failed. Their itired ideas are always n"ew and improved."

my favorite is social democracy. The idea that we're just going to vote ourselves to be good little socialist a little bit at a time. As if we won't eventually have to vote ourselves some commissars, some political putity officers in vote on how big are gulags should be to contain our malcontents who keep bucking for Freedom at expense of the state.

There really isn't an alternative beyond freedom of the individual or absolute power of the state.

People like that cannot grasp the concept that the best thing for the greater good is the greater potential for all.

 

[richard_daily]

Where to begin?

You obviously don't even have the basics about what fascism is and are conflating things that fascist regimes engaged in with the underpinnings of what fascism is.

This leads to you spouting the following nonsense, still:





"Behavior" of those running an authoritarian regime is not a system of governance. Yes, one can assume that any authoritarian regime of any stripe is eventually going to engage in atrocities because that's what authoritarians do. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Your exampkes above are like saying that just because Stalin sent people to the gulag, the communism is about direct slavery which it isn't. The atrocities that any form of authoritarian state engages in (because it can) does not make it the raison d'etre of that system.

Why don't you start with strasserism and work your way forward untll you have a basic understanding of the differences and similarities between different ideas about governance from that family tree. I only suggest that you compare strasserism and hitlerism as a basis because you seem to think that fascism was invented and rose in Nazi Germany. Wouldn't want to confuse you with Mussolini's version.

But to directly answer your question fascism involves a always a totalitarian state and control of industry. It has a lot more in common with socialism than it has differences which is why the National Socialist Party embraced it.

Yhe only reason the term is fascist as being thrown around is because it's an easy way to get around the problem of violating Godwin's law when you're calling your opponent a nazi, which is sort of the point of this whole discussion.

Since you have some actual fans of the Third Reich involved in this latest little brouhaha why not simply call them Nazis and not bother with your fascist label?

Wow, there's some serious conflation and misrepresentation of terms here...

Do you believe that Stalin was a fascist?

Do you understand what authoritarianism, fascism, and totalitarianism are?

I really, sincerely doubt it, based on your incorrect usages of all of these terms.

You still didn't give me what you believe the definition of fascism is... Mine is the correct usage of the term. let's hear yours.

 

[Que]

Wow, there's some serious conflation and misrepresentation of terms here...

Do you believe that Stalin was a fascist?

Do you understand what authoritarianism, fascism, and totalitarianism are?

I really, sincerely doubt it, based on your incorrect usages of all of these terms.

You still didn't give me what you believe the definition of fascism is... Mine is the correct usage of the term. let's hear yours.

Where did I say anything about Stalin being fascist? Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just see the word Stalin in there and decided that that was some sort of a victory?

as for my definition of fascism why don't you reread the paragraph that begins, "To directly answer your question.." wherein I directly answered your question.

You don't read very well at all do you?

 

[BotanyBoy]

You still didn't give me what you believe the definition of fascism is... Mine is the correct usage of the term.

Stuff "progressive" democrats don't want to hear!!!!

 

[richard_daily]

Where did I say anything about Stalin being fascist? Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just see the word Stalin in there and decided that that was some sort of a victory?

as for my definition of fascism why don't you reread the paragraph that begins, "To directly answer your question.." wherein I directly answered your question.

You don't read very well at all do you?

But to directly answer your question fascism involves a always a totalitarian state and control of industry.

That's your definition?

Hahahah....

All the typos and grammar issues notwithstanding, you do realize that my first post laid all of that out, right? You're also missing quite a lot of the other factors.

I wonder why you left all the rest out? Maybe it's a specific agenda to try to paint fascism as left-leaning...

 

[richard_daily]

Stuff "progressive" democrats don't want to hear!!!!

There has never been a left-leaning fascist state, nor will there ever be one.


If you want to talk about totalitarianism of Stalin or Mao Tse Tung, start a thread and have at it. I'll discuss the issues with those pieces of shit all day long as well.

 

[BotanyBoy]

There has never been a left-leaning fascist state, nor will there ever be one.

The only thing not left about fascism is SOME of the social aspects.

Economically it's just one of many flavors of socialism.

If you want to talk about totalitarianism of Stalin or Mao Tse Tung, start a thread and have at it. I'll discuss the issues with those pieces of shit all day long as well.

I'm not the one who started reaching back in history referencing Nazi's to make the modern fan club look better.

 

[richard_daily]

The only thing not left about fascism is SOME of the social aspects.

Economically it's just one of many flavors of socialism.

No. That's absolutely, and unequivocally false. Your issue is that you assign the term "socialism" to just about everything that you don't like.

You mis-use the term more than most posters, and I expect more out of you. Seriously, read up on what socialism actually is. It's not "regulations", and it's not "totalitarianism".

I'm not the one who started reaching back in history referencing Nazi's to make the modern fan club look better.

Nazis, far-right racists, and the KKK are a part of modern history.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Your issue is that you assign the term "socialism" to just about everything that you don't like.

No. That's absolutely, and unequivocally false.

I assign the term to government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.

You mis-use the term more than most posters, and I expect more out of you. Seriously, read up on what socialism actually is.

If it's not government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services then what is it?

It's not "regulations", and it's not "totalitarianism".

If regulations giving the government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services isn't socialism then what is it?

Nazis, far-right racists, and the KKK are a part of modern history.

Then so are Stalin, Mao, Pot, Castro, Kim and several other LOVELY socialist.

I was talking about USA, last 30 years....much closer to modern L v R issues and for more representative of current events. But if you want to go a full century worth of "which team has the biggest jerks" that's cool too!

 

[Que]

...and no I'm not going to draw you a Venn diagram about fascism and authoritarian control.

Are you under the impression that you can have fascism without authoritarian control?

 

[richard_daily]

...and no I'm not going to draw you a Venn diagram about fascism and authoritarian control.

Are you under the impression that you can have fascism without authoritarian control?

Fascism is not possible without authoritarian, right-leaning, militaristic control.