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Would Hay-soos bake a cake for a gay couple?

hsnh said:
Don't be paranoid and combative. :rolleyes: I'm not a homophobe, nor am I trying to defend homophobes.
I'm just expressing my opinion with the full knowledge that I might well be wrong.


Of course there are some bakers who refuse it out of homophobia. I bet they refuse other services to gay couples too, so they are easy to recognize.
But as far as a wedding cake is concerned:

I wonder if some do it simply because they were told in Church/Mosque that the Bible/Kuran only recognize marriages between men and women. And if they would bake the cake aka go against what their parishoner preached, there would be negative consequences for them in the religious community.

-- I wouldn't demonise those bakers if they explained politely their conandrum and tried to helped the customers by directing them to a nearby baker who wpuld be able to help them.
As long as they weren't the only bakers in the area.


I think that, for those who are upset about these occurrences,
the real battle should occur at the level of Church and Mosques: those who preach, not those who simply enforce those teachings.
Click to expand...
You're arguing about something entirely different than my point.

You don't sell a product to "a wedding" or "a couple". You sell it to a person. What the person does with the product when he owns the product is that person's business.

Let's say it's a cake.

The customer can take his cake (it's his now, he bought it) and serve it at a Jesus-approved Christian opposite sex wedding...
...or an abominable ghey wedding...
...or use it as a movie prop...
...or serve it at the annual summer bash of the local Ku Klux Klan...
...or just eat it himself...
...or fuck it...
...or perform a statanic ritual with it in his basement...

If someone is uncomfortable with the idea that products he sell to the public may be used by the public in (legal) ways he doesn't approve of... maybe he shouldn't be in the business of selling products to the public?

"I'm sorry, I refuse to sell you this car, because I fear you may use it to transport lesbians. Or Catholics. Or even worse, lesbian Catholics."

It's just not, you know, reasonable.
 
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Liar said:
You're arguing about something entirely different than my point.

You don't sell a product to "a wedding" or "a couple". You sell it to a person. What the person does with the product when he owns the product is that person's business.

Let's say it's a cake.

The customer can take his cake (it's his now, he bought it) and serve it at a Jesus-approved Christian opposite sex wedding...
...or an abominable ghey wedding...
...or use it as a movie prop...
...or serve it at the annual summer bash of the local Ku Klux Klan...
...or just eat it himself...
...or fuck it...
...or perform a statanic ritual with it in his basement...

If someone is uncomfortable with the idea that products he sell to the public may be used by the public in (legal) ways he doesn't approve of... maybe he shouldn't be in the business of selling products to the public?

"I'm sorry, I refuse to sell you this car, because I fear you may use it to transport lesbians. Or Catholics. Or even worse, lesbian Catholics."

It's just not, you know, reasonable.
Click to expand...

You're 100% right in the case of those employed in the public sector.
(The Christian governmental employee who refused to give permits for gay couples was rightfully fired).

But I wonder about the private sector, especially those Non-vital jobs that are on every other street corner.

Dunno much about the law, so I might be wrong. But I suspect it's more of a grey area.
 
Would Jesus build a pergola for an outdoor, gay wedding?

We'll need a ouija board to confirm.
 
hsnh said:
You're 100% right in the case of those employed in the public sector.
(The Christian governmental employee who refused to give permits for gay couples was rightfully fired).

But I wonder about the private sector, especially those Non-vital jobs that are on every other street corner.

Dunno much about the law, so I might be wrong. But I suspect it's more of a grey area.
Click to expand...

Well. The law is apparently not clear, or the SCOTUS wouldn't be hearing the case. I was talking more about the principles that should apply, IMO.

You should be able to specify what you sell. For instance "I only sell wedding cakes with a bride and groom on top." Or a party planner can specialize in Bar Mitzvas but don't offer to arrange Quinceañeras. Or a caterer should get to specify that ALL their food contains bacon, and offer no menu for jews, muslims and vegetarians. In my opinion.

The law is pretty clear that you can't discriminate based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation et al, who you sell it to. If a gay man want to buy a straight themed cake, you can't refuse to sell it to him just because he's gay.

You should, imo, also not have a say in how the product you've sold is used.

There is some leeway there. For instance, you might stipulate that you don't accept any complaint once the customer tampers with the product (for instance, replace the bride-and-groom figurines). But that's pretty much the extent of your reach, and if the customer agrees, sell the damn cake.
 
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Saint Peter said:
Your definition of me changes nothing.

The line isfuzzy to me. If the carpenter does not want to put a deck on my house he can choose not to. If he chooses not to because I am gay, I have cats, my house is a big piece of shit, or he is allergic to my garden I am good with the decision. What if the grocery store refuses to sell food to me because I am gay or my house is ass? Should I expect to go without food and service in a community that hates my guts?
Click to expand...

Go to another grocery store. You don't have a right not to be inconvenienced. If you live in a community that hates your guts I doubt the community is the problem.

Move.
 
water505 said:
Go to another grocery store. You don't have a right not to be inconvenienced. If you live in a community that hates your guts I doubt the community is the problem.

Move.
Click to expand...

Yours is a compelling point, the owner of the bakery could have chosen to open his business in another state.
 
SgtSpiderMan said:
You call your own post supid, I ask you why and you call me names, makes sense.
Click to expand...

I said you were stupid, not your post.

You have a basic inability to process information. If a normal person asked you for the time of day you'd say you love spaghetti.

Go somewhere else and ask dumb shit.
 
water505 said:
I said you were stupid, not your post.

You have a basic inability to process information. If a normal person asked you for the time of day you'd say you love spaghetti.

Go somewhere else and ask dumb shit.
Click to expand...

You called your post stupid. If you don't like what you write, don't write it.
 
SgtSpiderMan said:
You called your post stupid. If you don't like what you write, don't write it.
Click to expand...

You just can't shut up, can you?

If you don't like what I wrote either stop reading it or quit whining.

Jesus, dude.

Snappy comeback in 5...4...3...
 
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