How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Tryharder62]

We have archeological evidence that people have had religious beliefs for at least 30,000 years. What do you think happened to the people that died before JC .

I am not a Buddhist but the most Christian person I have ever known in morals, ethics, and every Christian value you can think of was a devout Sri Lankan Buddhist. I would have a pretty dim view of any god who rejected that guy. Any thoughts?

You are thinking about Jesus as just his ministry on earth. Christians believe that Christ was with God and the Holy Spirit and has always been and will always be.

Before Christ's earthly ministry people sacrificed, followed Old Testament Law, and did good works. Christ's Death and Resurrection paid the price for sin so you only need to believe and ask him to guide your life.

Some people believe that it has always been about faith alone. But faith in what? Abraham and Job mention waiting for the Messiah. They already believed in him. Interesting!

What about people of other faiths and beliefs? I asked this question at one time or another to a pastor and then to a missionary.

The pastor said that we tend to think of Jesus being in heaven trying to keep people out, but in reality he was reaching down to bring people in.

The missionary said that he connected with an old man who was a recluse. He told him about Jesus and the man said "So that is his name. I knew who he was". Makes me wonder ~ Can we know him through his creation?

For me, I made the decision just to follow Jesus. I try to live my life so other people don't think Christ followers are morons, and I trust that my Loving God will do what is best.

 

[Tryharder62]

If God loves why would let us suffer?

I am glad that you posted on this thread and you have asked a question that I still ask sometimes when terrible things happen. It's hard for me because if I were God I would not do it this way. I have been a Christian 33 years. (I have said, jokingly, many times in this thread that I would make everybody love me and that I would have a tiara!)

This is only what I think. I think that God created everything perfect but that we had choices and we have made some bad ones through time. He could have only solved this by making us with no choice.

I admit sometimes I don't get why he lets things happen. I have seen some reasons, in my life, for some of the things that have happened to me, but not all. I really don't think we will know this side of heaven for some things. I am not sure God will be ready for all the questions I have.

 

[Tryharder62]

No magic arts! What are miracles and healing lepers and stuff anything but magic? Divine magic maybe but still magic.

Magic or sorcery is the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures, and language with the aim of exploiting supernatural forces.

The supernatural includes all that cannot be explained by science or the laws of nature, including things characteristic of or relating to ghosts, gods, or other types of spirits and other non-material beings, or to things beyond nature.

What's the difference between some druid in a cloak covered in stars and moons with his staff intoning in some long lost Celtic dialect. And some priest in his robes, rod and mitre intoning away in old Latin turning wine and biscuits into blood and human flesh.

How many folk did Jesus feed with a few fish and a basket of bread. Sounds magical to me. If not a bit fishy.
And the ultimate magic raising the dead. Always guaranteed to impress the masses.


Magic is about faith in symbols and the ability of positive thinking. If you think it is about ABRACADABRA, POOF you're a newt. I suggest you go tell it to the Inquisition.

Don't make me get my wand!!!:

 

[Hard_Rom]

Don't make me get my wand!!!:

Wanna see my staff?

 

[Tryharder62]

Wanna see my staff?

Actually..... (Just Kidding....maybe not)

 

[Noor]

15.44% of those who voted say Yes. Check the poll and you will get your answer.



DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?
YES 23 15.44%
NO 75 50.34%
I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BEFORE 38 25.50%
OTHER 13 8.72%

That question does not say why they say yes.
If the question was worded, based solely on this thread do you do you accept ...
then you might have something to talk about.

So far we have no one stepping up and saying "Because of xfrodobagginsx's thread, How To Get To Heaven When You Die, I now accept Jesus and believe he died and rose again for my sins."

Maybe I should start a poll.

 

[Hard_Rom]

baggin's arguments for believing in God and Jesus are some of the lamest around. Purely circular logic based on quoting the bible. His knowledge of theology is pitiful. His theories on man walking with dinosaurs is laughable. If his lack of respect for real science is any indication, he is a danger to a child in need of medical attention. Comes across as more of a faith healing type than antibiotics. Would be surprised if he holds with those of African descent being descended of the sons of Ham.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

That question does not say why they say yes.
If the question was worded, based solely on this thread do you do you accept ...
then you might have something to talk about.

So far we have no one stepping up and saying "Because of xfrodobagginsx's thread, How To Get To Heaven When You Die, I now accept Jesus and believe he died and rose again for my sins."

Maybe I should start a poll.

They don't have to say why they say yes. What matters is that they accept Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for their sins. That's all that's required. Your logic is flawed. You are complicating something simple.

 

[Noor]

xfrodobagginsx, have you converted anyone?


Is there anyone here who has changed their beliefs based on this thread?

15.44% of those who voted say Yes. Check the poll and you will get your answer.



DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?
YES 23 15.44%
NO 75 50.34%
I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BEFORE 38 25.50%
OTHER 13 8.72%

That question does not say why they say yes.
If the question was worded, based solely on this thread do you do you accept ...
then you might have something to talk about.

So far we have no one stepping up and saying "Because of xfrodobagginsx's thread, How To Get To Heaven When You Die, I now accept Jesus and believe he died and rose again for my sins."

Maybe I should start a poll.

They don't have to say why they say yes. What matters is that they accept Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for their sins. That's all that's required. Your logic is flawed. You are complicating something simple.

Perhaps if you reread my original question and your reply as I have quoted above, you will discover that it is your logic not mine that is flawed.

 

[rocket_surgery]

I am glad that you posted on this thread and you have asked a question that I still ask sometimes when terrible things happen. It's hard for me because if I were God I would not do it this way. I have been a Christian 33 years. (I have said, jokingly, many times in this thread that I would make everybody love me and that I would have a tiara!)

This is only what I think. I think that God created everything perfect but that we had choices and we have made some bad ones through time. He could have only solved this by making us with no choice.

I admit sometimes I don't get why he lets things happen. I have seen some reasons, in my life, for some of the things that have happened to me, but not all. I really don't think we will know this side of heaven for some things. I am not sure God will be ready for all the questions I have.

We have free will. All there is to it.
If we used that free will and all got together to cure cancer, it would be cured.
If we used it to feed the hungry, solve world peace and find a way to distant stars then that's what would happen.
The problem isn't God, it's people deciding that weapons, wars and fun are more important anything else.
God gave us everything we need and has let us choose what we do with it. I for one am sorely disappointed in us.

 

[Tryharder62]

We have free will. All there is to it.
If we used that free will and all got together to cure cancer, it would be cured.
If we used it to feed the hungry, solve world peace and find a way to distant stars then that's what would happen.
The problem isn't God, it's people deciding that weapons, wars and fun are more important anything else.
God gave us everything we need and has let us choose what we do with it. I for one am sorely disappointed in us.

You are right we have free will. I said it as choice for the reason that sometimes just the two words free will set people off.

I googles this: Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action. It is closely linked to the concepts of responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgments which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.


We haven't done so well with our choices.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Perhaps if you reread my original question and your reply as I have quoted above, you will discover that it is your logic not mine that is flawed.

No yours is. You asked if anyone here was actually converted and I responded with 15.44% who said that they were. Although it is possible that they are lying, I doubt that they are. Since none of us are God and capable of knowing a man's heart, all we can do is take their word for it. Even if it was 0.0%, I would still keep this discussion going. How many people haven't voted that could have possibly prayed that prayer accepting Jesus's free gift of salvation? It also encourages people who are already believers. So, it has a lot of benefits.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

You are right we have free will. I said it as choice for the reason that sometimes just the two words free will set people off.

I googles this: Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action. It is closely linked to the concepts of responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgments which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.


We haven't done so well with our choices.

I believe it's actually Free Will and Predestination happening at the same time.

 

[phrodeau]

I believe it's actually Free Will and Predestination happening at the same time.

Yeah, so did Forrest Gump.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I believe it's actually Free Will and Predestination happening at the same time.

Wyrd!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Yeah, so did Forrest Gump.

I agree with Forrest on that one.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Archaeological Support The Bible:

https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/does-archaeology-support-the-bible/

 

[KingOrfeo]

I believe it's actually Free Will and Predestination happening at the same time.

Actually, one or the other reigns every day, as determined by a coin toss, which method also fortunately gives Free Will and Predestination one more thing to argue about endlessly.

 

[phrodeau]

Archaeological Support The Bible:

https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/does-archaeology-support-the-bible/

They skipped right over the important stuff.

And then there's this:

The ten plagues or judgments against the leading gods of Egypt (Exodus 12:12) are seen as real judgments, with a leading god of Egypt selected for judgment with each of the plagues.

Do you think those Egyptian gods were real?

 

[KingOrfeo]

As we say in the Church of the SubGenius: "The difference between Hell and Heaven is which end of the pitchfork you're on."

From Revelation X: The "Bob" Apocryphon, Chapter 8: "Heaven and Hell":

Everything written regarding Hell in all bibles, from the Zoroastrian up through Dante to Chick Comics, is literally true (except the name of the author). The traditional Hell exists, complete with Lake of Fire, demons, and eternal torment; they aren't lying about that. What they don't tell you is that only religious people go there.

It's a rare SubGenius that ends up in this Normal Hell, the lowest rung of the Ladder of Beforelives. THE HELL CLAUSE states that Hell is reserved for those who believe in it, and the lowest Circle is for those who think that if they don't believe in it, they'll go there. Hell is JHVH-1's revenge on those who insult His intelligence by thinking He is as simple-minded, cruel and vengeful as THEY are. The Devil's job is to pester them, to milk out every last drop of human faith and credence. Satan manages Hell, and it's a very busy place these days, but his responsibilities regarding earthly life cover only religious nuts. JHVH-1 assigned him to create some kind of secondary Hell on earth, so Satan devised the idea of multiple religions, all believing in his existence but hating each other even more than they hate him. (In the end it doesn't really matter whether those Normals are "good" or "bad" in life; Satan and JHVH-1 divvy up the souls 50-50, at random.)

<snip>

Pink Heaven (frequently misidentified as Christian Heaven or Islamic Paradise) is nothing but a more sophisticated Hell, with air conditioning. In many ways, it is far worse. At least in Hell, you know where you stand. The sheep in Heaven can't even guess how utterly doomed they truly are.

"Heaven" is only the second rung up the Beforelife ladder, and, like Hell, is reserved for believers. It consists of an absence not only of pain, but also of pleasure.

Great deal, huh? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Disobedient souls burn in Hell forever, but obedient souls "belong to God." As if making you an employee all your LIFE wasn't bad enough, you're enslaved in the AFTERLIFE as well! You get all the joy of a fundamentalist's lifestyle, with no hope of release -- not even death!

<snip>

In "Heaven" there dwell certain hungry, rapacious predator spirits, called Theocrats, which vampirize the PPQF of weaker spirits in order to "live" forever at the expense of their victims.

"The Theocrats enslave other spirits to provide psychic energy, just as slaves or employees on Earth provide physical labor . . . They obtain these victims by posing as gods and persuading the religious believers to come to them voluntarily after death thinking they are entering "eternal bliss in Heaven."

"Many notorious tyrants, conquerors, evil religious leaders, black magicians and criminals have become Theocrats after death, but so have some saints and benign geniuses. Power corrupts and the prospect of achieving immortality corrupts even more. Many people with highly developed souls, whose earthly lives were lived quite ethically, chose to become Theocrats after death . . . This has been especially true for people who were religiously devout, then found out the horrible truth about the gods after death.

"The daily activities of a Fundamentalist Theocratic band organized as Heaven are similar to a church service as such sects hold them on Earth, except that they go on perpetually. The Theocrat in charge poses as the Lord God Jehovah, and subordinate Theocrats pose as Christ, various Angels and Apostles, and so forth. "God" quotes the same Biblical passages and preaches the same sermons as preachers in the same sect do on Earth, and the congregation joins in singing the same hymns. . . . The Theocratic leaders then channel this collective psychic energy . . . For instance, there are dead Christians who think they are in Heaven, sitting around the throne of Jehovah "eternally singing his praises," when they're really just his slaves and possibly his dinner as well. Now you understand the real significance of "Holy Communion."

". . . As fanatical belief in organized religion declines in the modern era, the Theocrats have even devised ways to persuade atheists and agnostics to join Theocratic bands after death. The most common is simply to invite them to join what appears to be a community of spirits that includes some of their previously-deceased relatives or friends, or some famous person they greatly admire . . . There are also "Heavens" whose "gods" claim to be politicians, movie stars, writers, scientists, rock stars, or even fictional characters."

-- excerpted from Kyle Griffith's War in Heaven.

The most insidiously cruel aspect of Pink Heaven/Normal Hell is that it's all self-inflicted punishment. Nothing happens to those souls that they didn't ask for, that wasn't self-devised down to the smallest detail. And nastiest of all, just as their store of anguish is about to be used up, they are TOLD they could escape if only they would stop believing -- BUT THAT ONLY MAKES IT WORSE. For, there they are, right in the thick of it, with flames searing their skin, or etheric vampires slowly devouring their very essence . . . so it's just a bit difficult NOT to believe in it.

But there is hope! Now you can save your soul from Heaven! Just send it with $30 for shipping & handling costs to:

The Church of the SubGenius
c/o Reverend Ivan Stang
P.O. Box 181417
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118-1417

Eternal salvation guaranteed -- OR TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Do you think those Egyptian gods were real?

There is an ancient Christian tradition that pagan gods are real -- real demons, that is.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Actually, one or the other reigns every day, as determined by a coin toss, which method also fortunately gives Free Will and Predestination one more thing to argue about endlessly.

That's not how it is. God in His infinite power and wisdom, looked down through eternity and with His brilliant mind, determined things to happen that we would also choose, but He also allowed for us to choose things that would not be according to His highest purpose, but can still use the things according to His permissive will.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

There is an ancient Christian tradition that pagan gods are real -- real demons, that is.

Yes, I believe that. I have encountered demons via deliverance meetings and many of them are pegan gods, however, not all demons are pagan gods. Many demons are named for the sin that they specialize in, eg. hate, anger, rage, wrath, ect. tend to travel in groups, lust, fornication, adultry, pornography, ect. types tend to travel together. They specialize in trying to get us to sin certain sins.

It's also Biblical that many of the pagan gods are demons/devils:

Le 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

Ps 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,

 

[KingOrfeo]

That's not how it is. God in His infinite power and wisdom, looked down through eternity and with His brilliant mind, determined things to happen that we would also choose, but He also allowed for us to choose things that would not be according to His highest purpose, but can still use the things according to His permissive will.

What I said actually made a lot more sense than that.

 

[Tryharder62]

They skipped right over the important stuff.

And then there's this:
Do you think those Egyptian gods were real?

Personally, I think He was talking about idols. False things that people were worshiping instead of the true God.

Exodus 12:12. Dreadful work was to be made this night in Egypt: all the firstborn of man and beast were this night to be slain, and judgment to be executed upon all the gods of Egypt — Their idol-gods. The images made of metal were, probably, melted, those of wood consumed, and those of stone broken to pieces. To this Isaiah 19:1, and Jeremiah 43:13, have been thought to allude. It may also signify, that God destroyed their sacred animals.