How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Tryharder62]

How? We have a species called a horse. We have remains (not fossils, they are too recent to have fossilized) of an extinct species called eohippus. If biologists observe significant anatomical similarities and the DNA the eohippus would have if ancestral to horses, and if evolution is known to exist (and admitted by creationists to exist, at least within species), is it not a reasonable conclusion that the eohippus is ancestral to the horse? Which would mean either that species do speciate through evolution; or, even though the previous statement fits the evidence perfectly, they instead speciate by occasional insertion of the finger of God, as Intelligent Design (which I capitalize because it's really another name for God) theorists posit. But at any rate we do know very well that they speciate, that one species occasionally becomes another species somehow or other.



That is the point of the classic proofs of Natural Theology, but all are flawed (and the ontological argument is almost laughable).

No, it is not a reasonable conclusion. It is a + b= z. It simply means that a species with anatomical similarities and DNA to the horse is extinct. (You say it is extinct.) Maybe it couldn't adapt! You do not know very well that they speciate! Your conclusion that one species occasionally becomes another species somehow or another is surely going to win me to the other side. Not! Yes, most Christians do believe in adaptation and mutation (part of evolution theory but not the main assertion) within a species. Not that species "somehow" jump and become another species.

I only go by the Kathy theory of a higher power that I call God.

 

[Tryharder62]

I wish that my friends and loved ones would go see A Case for Christ that is in theaters for a short time. One man's journey to prove the resurrection of Christ is false.

SO GOOD: A movie based on a true story! The book comes to the big screen.

A SEASONED JOURNALIST CHASES DOWN THE BIGGEST STORY IN HISTORY - Is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God? Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates who are specialists in the areas of old manuscripts, textual criticism, and biblical studies. Strobel challenges them with questions like; How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event? Strobel s tough, point-blank questions make this bestselling book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it is not fiction. It is a riveting quest for the truth about history s most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?

It was so good.

 

[phrodeau]

My verdict?

Jesus lived.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You do not know very well that they speciate!

See post #1771.

I only go by the Kathy theory of a higher power that I call God.

Who's Kathy?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

My verdict?

Jesus lived.

He also lives...

 

[phrodeau]

He also lives...

Not here he doesn't. The Bible says so.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Not here he doesn't. The Bible says so.

The Bible says that He lives. He went to heaven and actually ascended up there in front up hundreds of people and will return to this earth.

 

[phrodeau]

The Bible says that He lives. He went to heaven and actually ascended up there in front up hundreds of people and will return to this earth.

Yep, so he ain't here on Earth no more.

 

[Iceprincess12]

It's probably already been mentioned, but can never be repeated often enough. Just get a mormon to show you the secret handshake. The one they practice when you pretend you are on your way to godhood. Someone stands behind a white sheet and sticks out his hand, waiting for the over, under, pump, clasp.

I'm sure if you get it wrong you can request a do over. Reincarnation is just as believable as a secret handshake. If that's the only thing we needed, someone sure spent a lot of time writing a book for nothing!

 

[Tryharder62]

https://phys.org/news/2016-11-biologists-speciation-laboratory-flask.html

See post #1771.


Who's Kathy?

So what you and Phrodeau are giving me as the only "proof" you have is a study for a small amount of time (ONE MONTH) that starts out with a virus and ends up with........yep, a virus. It doesn't change species. Was a virus......still is a virus.


Kathy = me

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4c/1b/fa/4c1bfa16f863a3c624e0db32fb7f7dd1.jpg

 

[Tryharder62]

Yep, so he ain't here on Earth no more.

Ahhhhh the wonderful complexities of the Trinity. God the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Jesus will be back though. Until then enjoy the holy spirit!

But now I am going back to the Father who sent Me, and none of you asks Me where I am going. You are very sad from hearing all of this. But I tell you that I am going to do what is best for you. That is why I am going away. The Holy Spirit cannot come to help You until I leave. But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you. - John 16:5-7 CEV

 

[Tryharder62]

Cool song included in the movie....remember this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZJui3aPoQ


This was written by Kansas guitarist Kerry Livgren. According to Livgren, the song was not written to express anything specifically religious, though it certainly expresses spiritual searching and other ideas.

Livgren became an evangelical Christian in 1980, and has said that his songwriting to that point was all about "searching." Regarding this song, he explained: "I felt a profound urge to 'Carry On' and continue the search. I saw myself as the 'Wayward Son,' alienated from the ultimate reality, and yet striving to know it or him. The positive note at the end ('Surely heaven waits for you') seemed strange and premature, but I felt impelled to include it in the lyrics. It proved to be prophetic."

Carry On!!!!

 

[Hard_Rom]

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170406-this-obscure-religion-shaped-the-west

The obscure religion which shaped the west.

It is generally believed by scholars that the ancient Iranian prophet Zarathustra (known in Persian as Zartosht and Greek as Zoroaster) lived sometime between 1500 and 1000 BC. Prior to Zarathustra, the ancient Persians worshipped the deities of the old Irano-Aryan religion, a counterpart to the Indo-Aryan religion that would come to be known as Hinduism. Zarathustra, however, condemned this practice, and preached that God alone – Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Wisdom – should be worshipped. In doing so, he not only contributed to the great divide between the Iranian and Indian Aryans, but arguably introduced to mankind its first monotheistic faith.

The idea of a single god was not the only essentially Zoroastrian tenet to find its way into other major faiths, most notably the ‘big three’: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The concepts of Heaven and Hell, Judgment Day and the final revelation of the world, and angels and demons all originated in the teachings of Zarathustra, as well as the later canon of Zoroastrian literature they inspired. Even the idea of Satan is a fundamentally Zoroastrian one; in fact, the entire faith of Zoroastrianism is predicated on the struggle between God and the forces of goodness and light (represented by the Holy Spirit, Spenta Manyu) and Ahriman, who presides over the forces of darkness and evil. While man has to choose to which side he belongs, the religion teaches that ultimately, God will prevail, and even those condemned to hellfire will enjoy the blessings of Paradise (an Old Persian word).

How did Zoroastrian ideas find their way into the Abrahamic faiths and elsewhere? According to scholars, many of these concepts were introduced to the Jews of Babylon upon being liberated by the Persian emperor Cyrus the Great. They trickled into mainstream Jewish thought, and figures like Beelzebub emerged.

And the late Farrokh Bulsara – aka Freddie Mercury – was intensely proud of his Persian Zoroastrian heritage. “I’ll always walk around like a Persian popinjay,” he once remarked in an interview, “and no one’s gonna stop me, honey!”

 

[EternalFantasies]

Mankind has struggled with understanding it's own creation, raison d'etre and code of conduct for a long time. How we conceptualize that innate need over time in our lifetime, and how do we relate to others and propagate intelligent life in a productive fashion on our planet, are priorities that go hand in hand.

An example is in the oldest known origin, the Sumerians, that had such a complete system and enjoyed an enlightened golden age, and eventually, perished and got extinct. This only means one thing to me: they somewhere went wrong. My guess is too idealistic.

The Persians invaded them and the Akkadians. and it goes on and on as it always went.

One needs to compare how life became, versus previous contexts. is it better or worse? and why and due to what kind of life organisation in all facets. And try and make it better.

Not bark up the tree all the time shitting over what has helped them - and I suppose in ways they are unable to realize; even with all the historical knowledge, for some reason... .

 

[Tryharder62]

Hard Rom,

Ahh the classic question: What came first the chicken or the egg, or in this forum, who came first Christ or Zoroaster.

Did Judaism and Christianity borrow the Messiah, the resurrection, and final judgment from Zoroastrianism / Mithra? Many doctrines of the Christian faith have parallels in Zoroastrianism, e.g., the virgin birth, the son of God, and resurrection. Some scholars say that Zarathustra (a.k.a. Zoroaster) lived around 600–500 BC. If that is the case, David, Isaiah, and Jeremiah (all of whom mention the Messiah, the resurrection and the final judgment in their writings), lived and wrote before Zarathustra. Some scholars say that Zoroaster lived sometime between 1500 and 1200 BC. If that is the case, the case for Christianity borrowing from Zoroastrianism would be stronger, but the fact is we don’t know when Zarathustra lived (hence the disagreement among scholars), and so this argument is speculative at best. The Greek historian Herodotus (5th century B.C.) doesn’t mention Zoroaster in his treatise on the Medo-Persian religions, though Plato, who was born roughly around the time Herodotus died, does mention him in his Alcibiades (see Wikipedia’s entry on Zoroaster;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster).


Scholars differ considerably about the date of Zoroaster’s birth. Greek sources place Zoroaster at 6000 years before the death of Plato, that is, about 6350 B.C. Archeological remains in Turfan, China, state that Zoroaster was born “2715 years after the Great Storm,” placing his birth at 1767 B.C. The latest dates for his life come from Persian writings that place him 258 years before Alexander, that is, about 600 years B.C. Many other scholars place Zoroaster’s birth between 1500 and 1200 B.C.


No one will question Zoroantrianism though.

Christ- with God and the Holy Spirit- has always been and will always be.

I wish Freddie the best though!

 

[phrodeau]

We're coming up on Good Friday, the day when Jesus Christ was sacrificed for the sins of all the people of Earth.

- He was not killed in a temple on an altar of acacia wood with bronze utensils.
- He was not burned in a fire that was to be kept fueled at all times.
- He was not one of the specified animals to be exclusively used for sacrifices.
- His blood was, and still is, given to be drunk by the congregation, in violation of Leviticus 3:17 and other scriptures.
- He didn't stay dead.

Numbers 15:11-13 If you are a native Israelite, you must obey these rules each time you offer a bull, a ram, or a goat as a sacrifice.
14 And the foreigners who live among you must also follow these rules.
15-16 This law will never change. I am the Lord, and I consider all people the same, whether they are Israelites or foreigners living among you.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

This one is for 90 Minutes in heaven with Don Piper. Click on one of the ones that are about an hour long. That way you can get the full story. He is a southern Baptist preacher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0aJFu-GlYg

 

[Tryharder62]

We're coming up on Good Friday, the day when Jesus Christ was sacrificed for the sins of all the people of Earth.

- He was not killed in a temple on an altar of acacia wood with bronze utensils.
- He was not burned in a fire that was to be kept fueled at all times.
- He was not one of the specified animals to be exclusively used for sacrifices.
- His blood was, and still is, given to be drunk by the congregation, in violation of Leviticus 3:17 and other scriptures.
- He didn't stay dead.

You do love the Old Testament don't you? The law didn't change. Jesus fulfilled it. Check out the second part of the book. It is really good.

Mathew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

You don't have to be a slave to sin and do all these things to pay your debt. Jesus paid it in full. Pretty cool huh!!

 

[Tryharder62]

This one is for 90 Minutes in heaven with Don Piper. Click on one of the ones that are about an hour long. That way you can get the full story. He is a southern Baptist preacher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0aJFu-GlYg

I just got this story on DVD. Looking forward to checking it out.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Battle Drill #8: Conduct Initial Breach of a Mined Obstacle

 

[KingOrfeo]

No, it is not a reasonable conclusion. It is a + b= z. It simply means that a species with anatomical similarities and DNA to the horse is extinct. (You say it is extinct.) Maybe it couldn't adapt! You do not know very well that they speciate! Your conclusion that one species occasionally becomes another species somehow or another is surely going to win me to the other side. Not! Yes, most Christians do believe in adaptation and mutation (part of evolution theory but not the main assertion) within a species. Not that species "somehow" jump and become another species.

The pattern in the fossil record of species disappearing and apparently related ones emerging is clear and overwhelming. ID theorists accept speciation (but believe an "Intelligent Designer," never named as God but obviously something with the same skill set, arranges it, because in their view some features of organisms show "irreducible complexity" that a purely random evolutionary process could not have produced). Why is it so hard for you?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Battle Drill #8: Conduct Initial Breach of a Mined Obstacle

Preach it, Brother Bot! Oo-rrrahhlelujah!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I just got this story on DVD. Looking forward to checking it out.

It's a fascinating true story. This guy actually came and visited my Church and told his story. I believe him. The evidence is compelling.

 

[Tryharder62]

The pattern in the fossil record of species disappearing and apparently related ones emerging is clear and overwhelming. ID theorists accept speciation (but believe an "Intelligent Designer," never named as God but obviously something with the same skill set, arranges it, because in their view some features of organisms show "irreducible complexity" that a purely random evolutionary process could not have produced). Why is it so hard for you?

It's not hard for me at all. I just don't believe it. But, if your only explanation is the theory of some, but not most of those who believe in Intelligent Design, I say go for it. Stick around long enough and you just might find yourself loving ya some Jesus!!

 

[phrodeau]

You do love the Old Testament don't you? The law didn't change. Jesus fulfilled it. Check out the second part of the book. It is really good.

Mathew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

You don't have to be a slave to sin and do all these things to pay your debt. Jesus paid it in full. Pretty cool huh!!

How does blatant violation of the law mean fulfilling the law?