H.R. 899: “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2018.”

[4est_4est_Gump]

I decided it was better not to say it. France is being overwhelmed by Nihilism...


They're already terrorized enough.

 

[EternalFantasy]

Not that I would indulge that particular poster, but just for funsies I took a stab at it just to see what sort of stats are readily available.

As you say it's really a can of worms, because of the various metrics you might want to employ and the dearth of nationalised statistics. You would think they would be reams of information available post DOE that were not available prior to that. Oddly, I found the opposite to be true, which in and of itself says something, no?

I thought that perhaps looking at literacy rates in various groups of people might be interesting I found a PDF and went down that rabbit hole reading quite a bit and what was fascinating was how literacy was improving in the US at by a decade by decade accounting but this particular piece stops its table in 1979. What the hel???l something I can access on the internet stops reporting in 1979?

Given that the entire time that the NEA has had the DOE doing its PR work about the worth and value of teachers specifically what it is that we pay them they have continually every single year cried out that they're being paid not enough and that children are suffering. If the Department of Education had somehow improved education wouldn't the children now be suffering less?

Yep. Exactly. You can't find such stats. Only observant opinions.

The no child left behind was surprising from a right wing admin. Maybe it was to kill that beast that it was fed. But it forced a situation where school boards lowered the standards of the tests so as to appear better, so they can receive funds.

The province of Quebec, home of the largest nazi-test-lab-on-unaware-human-beings-being-treated-as-rats, has a standard culture of using in-house psychologist to misdiagnose children with ADHD & Autism for the sake of getting extra funds which they can redistribute in hours on other kids.

Basically the cause is lack of funding, so some kids with very little difficulty and need a nudge, are given that conditional that they take the diagnosis label for the sake of others, or else they get ignored.

What people do not understand is, there is nothing for free. The left is its own victim. Is it's own persecutor and oppressor. Is its own jailer.

But if you tell them that, they call you stingy, greedy, mean, and insane

Hey I think i found my signature

 

[EternalFantasy]

I decided it was better not to say it. France is being overwhelmed by Nihilism...


They're already terrorized enough.

lol .. not merely enough yet though.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They have elections looming.


We'll see...

 

[oggbashan]

They have elections looming.


We'll see...

With one of the mainstream Presidential candidates possibly facing trial for fraud in public office (which is not a surprise in France) Marine Le Pen is looking like the front runner.

She wants to leave NATO, take France out of the Euro, and...

I remember the 1950s and 60s when French and Government were two terms that seemed incompatible.

 

[Conager]

Yep. Exactly. You can't find such stats. Only observant opinions.

The no child left behind was surprising from a right wing admin. Maybe it was to kill that beast that it was fed. But it forced a situation where school boards lowered the standards of the tests so as to appear better, so they can receive funds.

The province of Quebec, home of the largest nazi-test-lab-on-unaware-human-beings-being-treated-as-rats, has a standard culture of using in-house psychologist to misdiagnose children with ADHD & Autism for the sake of getting extra funds which they can redistribute in hours on other kids.

Basically the cause is lack of funding, so some kids with very little difficulty and need a nudge, are given that conditional that they take the diagnosis label for the sake of others, or else they get ignored.

What people do not understand is, there is nothing for free. The left is its own victim. Is it's own persecutor and oppressor. Is its own jailer.

But if you tell them that, they call you stingy, greedy, mean, and insane

Hey I think i found my signature

You can safely bet that if the Department of Education could show specific instances where their uggested policies or implementation of said policies had made a positive, measurable difference, there would be tables and graphs readily available to showcase that. I guarantee you it's been studied to death with large amounts of grant money.

NCLB Seems to have had a net negative effect on test scores but of course one still can't know that definitively because you're talking about a different set of students with a different set of parents living in a different time with different distractions.

The best one could argue is that student achievement would have been even worse without NCLB. kind of like When it was pointed out that Obamacare in fact increased premiums, rather than reduced them as promised, that they would have somehow magically risen even more if the expensive conditions imposed by Obamacare had not been imposed.

I just remember the circumstances that led to the release of the report on the effectiveness of the Head Start program. I'm pretty surprised that that report ever saw the light of day. Because it very clearly and unequivocally showed that Headstart, which is essentially just a babysitting program, had no effect at all on future academic achievement. The program is essentially government paid for daycare and what was discovered was that children in Head Start actually underperform those that stayed home. Which makes sense, because Mom can read to them at home and they are simply warehoused at headstart.

 

[EternalFantasy]

I think this new idea of semi private schools to replace those rusted school boards can be a good thing. And let competition reign. Then quality education will be back.

 

[water505]

I think this new idea of semi private schoolsto replace those rusted school boards can be a good thing. And let competition reign. Then quality education will be back.

Competition is a dirty word to leftists. It's not inclusive enough and elevates top performers at the expense of average and below average performers.

It's just not fair.

 

[Shagly]

With one of the mainstream Presidential candidates possibly facing trial for fraud in public office (which is not a surprise in France) Marine Le Pen is looking like the front runner.

She wants to leave NATO, take France out of the Euro, and...

I remember the 1950s and 60s when French and Government were two terms that seemed incompatible.

...now if NATO would just dissolve.

 

[BotanyBoy]

...now if NATO would just dissolve.

That only happens when the US pulls out of it.

Without the US, NATO is a joke.

 

[Sean]

I think this new idea of semi private schools to replace those rusted school boards can be a good thing. And let competition reign. Then quality education will be back.

Like Michigan, you mean?

 

[oggbashan]

...now if NATO would just dissolve.

France has been out of NATO before but cooperated on exercises.

 

[oggbashan]

I think this new idea of semi private schools to replace those rusted school boards can be a good thing. And let competition reign. Then quality education will be back.

It doesn't appear to be working in England. We have turned failing public schools into 'Academies' who are controlled by commercial providers (and get more funding).

All that seems to happen is the building infrastructure improves and the school as an 'Academy' is still 'failing'.

On the other hand new Head Teachers can turn a school around if they can motivate the parents and the students. That can happen whether the school is still publicly owned or an Academy.

There is a measure about pupil progress, not just crude examination results. If the school is sited in a low achieving area and its pupils start school with low abilities and motivation, the measure records how much improvement has happened while at school.

If a child starts a secondary school and is functionally illiterate at age 11, being able to read to the average standard of a 9 year old by age 14 would be a massive improvement. The school's overall examination results might be poor compared with a national average but if every pupil has improved their measured ability - that school is a success.

 

[Conager]

It doesn't appear to be working in England. We have turned failing public schools into 'Academies' who are controlled by commercial providers (and get more funding).

All that seems to happen is the building infrastructure improves and the school as an 'Academy' is still 'failing'.

On the other hand new Head Teachers can turn a school around if they can motivate the parents and the students. That can happen whether the school is still publicly owned or an Academy.

There is a measure about pupil progress, not just crude examination results. If the school is sited in a low achieving area and its pupils start school with low abilities and motivation, the measure records how much improvement has happened while at school.

If a child starts a secondary school and is functionally illiterate at age 11, being able to read to the average standard of a 9 year old by age 14 would be a massive improvement. The school's overall examination results might be poor compared with a national average but if every pupil has improved their measured ability - that school is a success.

I agree with that methodology. teachers can only work from where the students starts but if a student isn't showing measurable improvement there's something wrong with the teacher or there's something wrong at home.

 

[Conager]

Like Michigan, you mean?

Where over 1/2 the population left leaving a high concentration 9f underforming students and disengaged parents?

Go ahead, cite the NEA "statistics" on charter schools in poor, black neighborhoods compared to public schools in wealthy Grosse Pointe. Because that shows real academic integrity.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Yep. Exactly. You can't find such stats. Only observant opinions.

The no child left behind was surprising from a right wing admin. Maybe it was to kill that beast that it was fed. But it forced a situation where school boards lowered the standards of the tests so as to appear better, so they can receive funds.

The province of Quebec, home of the largest nazi-test-lab-on-unaware-human-beings-being-treated-as-rats, has a standard culture of using in-house psychologist to misdiagnose children with ADHD & Autism for the sake of getting extra funds which they can redistribute in hours on other kids.

Basically the cause is lack of funding, so some kids with very little difficulty and need a nudge, are given that conditional that they take the diagnosis label for the sake of others, or else they get ignored.

What people do not understand is, there is nothing for free. The left is its own victim. Is it's own persecutor and oppressor. Is its own jailer.

But if you tell them that, they call you stingy, greedy, mean, and insane

Hey I think i found my signature

I can guarantee you that never happened because local school boards don't write standards and no one got any extra money for the quality of their standards under NCLB.

 

[EternalFantasy]

Competition is a dirty word to leftists. It's not inclusive enough and elevates top performers at the expense of average and below average performers.

It's just not fair.

lol

 

[EternalFantasy]

Like Michigan, you mean?

Actually I didn't even know they started that somewhere. I looked it up. it seem it started in Minnesota, then Michigan in 94.

yes, I do think if its nationalized with a well planned approach, this can be amazing. Have all these unionized gangsters start brushing up on their people skills, and teaching skills, and competing for job.

It's the kid's future at stake.

I can guarantee you that never happened because local school boards don't write standards and no one got any extra money for the quality of their standards under NCLB.

In the previous post that i mentioned this, which was a reply to you I think, I did say 'state' not school board. Sorry made a mistake here.

It's the state's the lowered the test quality to show better proficiency. I believe it was Mississippi that did that. And it's an example.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Actually I didn't even know they started that somewhere. I looked it up. it seem it started in Minnesota, then Michigan in 94.

yes, I do think if its nationalized with a well planned approach, this can be amazing. Have all these unionized gangsters start brushing up on their people skills, and teaching skills, and competing for job.

It's the kid's future at stake.



In the previous post that i mentioned this, which was a reply to you I think, I did say 'state' not school board. Sorry made a mistake here.

It's the state's the lowered the test quality to show better proficiency. I believe it was Mississippi that did that. And it's an example.

It's not an example of what you claimed. You're changing your story. First you said standards and now you're saying test quality.

 

[EternalFantasy]

It doesn't appear to be working in England. We have turned failing public schools into 'Academies' who are controlled by commercial providers (and get more funding).

All that seems to happen is the building infrastructure improves and the school as an 'Academy' is still 'failing'.

On the other hand new Head Teachers can turn a school around if they can motivate the parents and the students. That can happen whether the school is still publicly owned or an Academy.

There is a measure about pupil progress, not just crude examination results. If the school is sited in a low achieving area and its pupils start school with low abilities and motivation, the measure records how much improvement has happened while at school.

If a child starts a secondary school and is functionally illiterate at age 11, being able to read to the average standard of a 9 year old by age 14 would be a massive improvement. The school's overall examination results might be poor compared with a national average but if every pupil has improved their measured ability - that school is a success.

I think it depends on what you mean by "we did the same in England". It feels you changed financing for the same system - just different heads. But i got zero knowledge on that.

What we're talking about here is eliminating school boards and bureaucracy and centralized decision making, to outsource to licensed providers and they compete with each other. (i think that's what it is at least).

 

[EternalFantasy]

It's not an example of what you claimed. You're changing your story. First you said standards and now you're saying test quality.

The standards of the test / or its quality, its the same thing.


You need to get laid man.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

The standards of the test / or its quality, its the same thing.


You need to get laid man.

Not what you were quoted saying. Nice try.

 

[OldJourno]

In the previous post that i mentioned this, which was a reply to you I think, I did say 'state' not school board. Sorry made a mistake here.
.

Nevada did just that a few years ago. Softened the standards then touted the amazing improvement by students.
I don't think anyone was fooled.

 

[oggbashan]

I think it depends on what you mean by "we did the same in England". It feels you changed financing for the same system - just different heads. But i got zero knowledge on that.

What we're talking about here is eliminating school boards and bureaucracy and centralized decision making, to outsource to licensed providers and they compete with each other. (i think that's what it is at least).

And that is what academies in England are supposed to do. They are commercial providers independent of the politicians at the equivalent of City Hall - unlike non-academies.

But we don't have US style school boards. We have governors who are from the community but they have no role in deciding what is taught. That is set by the National Curriculum by our equivalent of the Education Department.

Our governors are more concerned with the school infrastructure and staffing.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It's not an example of what you claimed. You're changing your story. First you said standards and now you're saying test quality.

AJ: I live in an oak forest...

fs: AJ, I'm standing in front of this tree and it's clearly a walnut, you don't live in an oak forest.

AJ: A forest will have more than one type of tree, but one usually predominates.

fs: All I see is this fucking Walnut tree! You're misusing the term Oak. It's just a forest.

AJ: 90% of the trees are oak.

fs: Now, you're just redefining the terms... We can't go any further with this conversation until you admit that this is a walnut tree...

AJ: Yes firespin, it's a walnut tree.

fs: Then you lied, you're stupid, you're inconsistent, and you make NO sense what-so-ever...

Don't waste your time on Spidey...