University/college experience

[Sean]

What does good manufacturing process and clinical experience have to do with your suggestion that doctors are bought and paid for by bid pharma? Or with your other suggestion that every prescription has to be for good medical purposes. None of what you say relates to anything else. Even the two extremes you mentioned aren't mutually exclusive of each other.

"Clinical experience" goes directly to the argument about doctors being paid shills for big pharma. What difference does clinical expertise make when you're pumping out product for GSK or Napp? And what other reason for a prescription would there be other than good medical purposes?

 

[sigh]

We learned in nursing school that 2000-2010 was the year of studying Pain, just as you said. Pain became a vital sign, and we had to give numbers on a pain scale before and after pain medication was given. And while that sounds reasonable, it led to people believing that they should never experience pain. At all. Even after a major outpatient operation. So people's expectations of pain medicine went over the top, as well as physician's feeling responsible to meet that expectation.

It was a fuckeroo from the start. Pain is necessary for the body to function and to be able to communicate.

Oh, I like that we ask people about pain, at least in hospitals. I've had three surgeries since early March, and a half dozen lesser procedures in the surgeon's office in between, and there's been a whole lot of pain throughout. When a nurse asks me about pain, I'm grateful. If we wait until the patient asks, we usually wait too long and then have to use even more pain killers to get them back on keel.

But you're absolutely right that we went too far. We created problems for some where none existed and and are masking symptoms in others where it'd be best to know them up front. We'll settle somewhere in the middle soon, I hope.

People tend to look at failures in medicine as the work of evil, and in some cases they are, but I think most practitioners look at them an opportunity to learn.

 

[sigh]

"Clinical experience" goes directly to the argument about doctors being paid shills for big pharma. What difference does clinical expertise make when you're pumping out product for GSK or Napp? And what other reason for a prescription would there be other than good medical purposes?

I have no idea what you're asking or how you expect me to respond.

 

[girlsmiley]

I have no idea what you're asking or how you expect me to respond.

You are not Robinson Crusoe, darl.

And as for Bot and Luk... They don't know if they're Arthur or Martha.

You are so patient with them. I am not.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Okay, now you're talking about abuse. That's not where this conversation started. Junkies are junkies, no matter what they abuse. Fine, we have no conflict there.

But there are legitimate reasons for needing opiates. As in life saving reasons. We use tons in intensive care every day. And if you need to buy an opiate, I STRONGLY suggest you go through legitimate means. There is no question that the quality of product, the clinical experience, and the comfort level of the doctor prescribing it are all hugely in favor of the Pfizer product (actually, I'd go with a generic, but you brought up Pfizer). And yes, selling a product for a legitimate purpose, in order to alleviate suffering, is (in my opinion) an ethical step up from selling an uncontrolled product to anybody, for any reason, just for money.

And that's about all I'm going to say about it. This argument is getting silly.

I'm not talking about selling, never have been. You keep looking at this from the distribution/manufacturing perspective.

I'm talking about the individual consumers decision to take opium being the same weather you're a rich person in a luxury clinic taking name brand pills or some destitute sack shooting up in an empty rail car.

The reasons and choice for use are no different. There is no moral or ethical difference in choosing to take pills, shoot goop or smoke tar. Only a consumer budget and arbitrary (economic) legal difference.

They all take opium to kill the pain. Some emotional some physical but they all do it to kill the pain and get that warm fuzzy. Nobody takes opium to be productive and successful. That's what Adderall/Cocaine are for.

 

[Jennifer]

Oh, I like that we ask people about pain, at least in hospitals. I've had three surgeries since early March, and a half dozen lesser procedures in the surgeon's office in between, and there's been a whole lot of pain throughout. When a nurse asks me about pain, I'm grateful. If we wait until the patient asks, we usually wait too long and then have to use even more pain killers to get them back on keel.

But you're absolutely right that we went too far. We created problems for some where none existed and and are masking symptoms in others where it'd be best to know them up front. We'll settle somewhere in the middle soon, I hope.

People tend to look at failures in medicine as the work of evil, and in some cases they are, but I think most practitioners look at them an opportunity to learn.

We love science but the marketing depts of pharmaceutical companies put us st a great disadvantage to providing appropriate care. Most patients want a narcotic when a strong NSAID will cover their pain.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You are not Robinson Crusoe, darl.

And as for Bot and Luk... They don't know if they're Arthur or Martha.

You are so patient with them. I am not.

Oh look the bigot chimes in. how cute.

 

[Disgustipated]

I am not.

There, there. You've been acknowledged.

 

[girlsmiley]

There, there. You've been acknowledged.

*view post

Do you wonder why sigh didn't bother responding to your last post, puk?

I don't.

 

[girlsmiley]

I wish I hadn't read this this thread. It's hard to see everyone talking about the great time they had. But for me, it was 2 years of hell.

I wasn't college material in the first place, but my social worker and guidence counselor both made me apply. I have no idea how I got in because my grades were so bad in high school and I had really low ACT score. Everything was hard. The classes were hard, having to work full time was hard, it was hard not knowing how to make friends, and everything. I tried using the tutors they had but they didn't help either. After my first year, I was on academic probation. I passed like three classes in total all year, and they were with D's. I basically had to repeat freshman year last year, and it was pretty much the same thing.

So after 2 years, I have nothing to show for going to college, except for a ton of debt that I will probably never pay off. I wish I had never gone.

I absolutely smashed it in high school. Primary, intermediate... I was awarded a full scholarship for an elite boarding school when I turned 10.

The only problem was my mum was sick and it was so far away. So I didn't end up going. But as I said. I smashed it at high school.

After, I took a break. Well...sorta took a break. I had a government job and I did a lot of travelling. Mainly between NZ and AUS. Studying and working full time.

Perhaps you just need a little break like that. Actually, I'm almost certain we've spoken about this before, yeah?

 

[Disgustipated]

*view post

Do you wonder why sigh didn't bother responding to your last post, Adonis?

I don't.

I did not. Why did you, psycho?

 

[Que]

Des' experience, san the poetry reading sounds idyllic.

 

[girlsmiley]

I did not. Why did you, psycho?

I didn't. Bloody hell.

Get off the shit, man!

I would say you aren't very smart, but that would be an understatement.

Stick to posting nonsensical shit because your reading skills are at Smoot level, and ain't nobody got time fo dat.

 

[Samuelx]

I started college in Massachusetts in 2003, graduated a few years later, took a big break, continued with it in 2012 in Ontario, Canada, and now I'm close to getting my Law degree. Good times.

 

[Mike_Yates]

Forrest Gump was good at football. If you're good at sports, they'll find a way to pass you.

Football and ping pong.

 

[sigh]

I'm not talking about selling, never have been. You keep looking at this from the distribution/manufacturing perspective.

I'm talking about the individual consumers decision to take opium being the same weather you're a rich person in a luxury clinic taking name brand pills or some destitute sack shooting up in an empty rail car.

The reasons and choice for use are no different. There is no moral or ethical difference in choosing to take pills, shoot goop or smoke tar. Only a consumer budget and arbitrary (economic) legal difference.

They all take opium to kill the pain. Some emotional some physical but they all do it to kill the pain and get that warm fuzzy. Nobody takes opium to be productive and successful. That's what Adderall/Cocaine are for.

Sometimes it's called false equivalence. Sometimes moral equivalence. You say tomato...and so forth. But it means the same either way and what it means is that you're full of shit.

You are so wrong, on so many levels, on so many details of a system you don't understand at all. It's all evil big pharma to you. For instance, if you think that people don't use opiates to be productive, you've never really needed them. If the pain is so great that you can't produce, then yes, opiates will help you be more productive. I know that both personally and professionally. I see more, and live more, medication use every week than you'll experience in a lifetime and I know your assumptions are wrong. I've explained why I believe that many times already, so goodbye. I'm sure you'll respond again, but I won't.

The legal piece is hardly arbitrary, by the way. Your ignorance is showing again.

 

[Noor]

Sometimes it's called false equivalence. Sometimes moral equivalence. You say tomato...and so forth. But it means the same either way and what it means is that you're full of shit.

You are so wrong, on so many levels, on so many details of a system you don't understand at all. It's all evil big pharma to you. For instance, if you think that people don't use opiates to be productive, you've never really needed them. If the pain is so great that you can't produce, then yes, opiates will help you be more productive. I know that both personally and professionally. I see more, and live more, medication use every week than you'll experience in a lifetime and I know your assumptions are wrong. I've explained why I believe that many times already, so goodbye. I'm sure you'll respond again, but I won't.

The legal piece is hardly arbitrary, by the way. Your ignorance is showing again.

Agreed!

 

[hashtag45]

Forrest Gump was good at football. If you're good at sports, they'll find a way to pass you.

Football and ping pong.

My initial thought was WTF? Some of the nicest GB posters are starting to emulate the likes of Disgustipated and RobDownSouth?

But then I saw Mike's initial post about the movie.

Forrest Gump went to college, I have no idea how, but he did.
Never saw the movie so I don't know.

Haha Mike never disappoints.

 

[RoryN]

Sometimes it's called false equivalence. Sometimes moral equivalence. You say tomato...and so forth. But it means the same either way and what it means is that you're full of shit.

You are so wrong, on so many levels, on so many details of a system you don't understand at all. It's all evil big pharma to you. For instance, if you think that people don't use opiates to be productive, you've never really needed them. If the pain is so great that you can't produce, then yes, opiates will help you be more productive. I know that both personally and professionally. I see more, and live more, medication use every week than you'll experience in a lifetime and I know your assumptions are wrong. I've explained why I believe that many times already, so goodbye. I'm sure you'll respond again, but I won't.

The legal piece is hardly arbitrary, by the way. Your ignorance is showing again.

^^^This is what happens when someone who puts on an intellectual front gets exposed.

Well said, sigh.

 

[BotanyBoy]

But it means the same either way and what it means is that you're full of shit.

No it doesn't, words mean things.

Yet you totally failed to explain exactly how I am full of shit.

You just danced all around it with irrelevant shit talk.

I've explained why I believe that many times already, so goodbye. I'm sure you'll respond again, but I won't.

No, you didn't, you explained something off topic and unrelated to what I was saying and then called me names because you don't like what I'm saying and can't refute it.

Of course you wont, don't like what I'm saying just put me on iggy!!

Besides, not great loss considering you haven't effectively responded to what I said. Just got mad and raged all around it.

I know that both personally and professionally. I see more, and live more, medication use every week than you'll experience in a lifetime

Professionally sure. But personally as someone who spent years in surgery and therapy after being injured in combat I wouldn't be sure about that. The Army/VA had me pounding a whole cabinet 5 times a day for years. They almost killed me with the shit.

and I know your assumptions are wrong.

Then you should have no problem telling me why it's morally superior for me to choose to manage my pain with oxy over other opiates or even cannabis.

The legal piece is hardly arbitrary, by the way. Your ignorance is showing again.

All law is arbitrary.

Then point out the ignorance and tell me what is morally different about making the choice to consume one opioid over another to treat pain and quit dancing around it with all the off topic bullshit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

^^^This is what happens when someone who puts on an intellectual front gets exposed.

Well said, sigh.

An emotional non response that isn't on topic?

Ohhhhh impressive standards Rory!!

 

[Disgustipated]

*view post

Do you wonder why sigh didn't bother responding to your last post, puk?

I don't.

I did not. Why did you, psycho?

I didn't. Bloody hell.

Get off the shit, man!

I would say you aren't very smart, but that would be an understatement.

Stick to posting nonsensical shit because your reading skills are at Smoot level, and ain't nobody got time fo dat.

When shitty education attacks!

 

[neci]

sometimes pharmaceuticals are the best way for an immediate fix. modern medicine is a blessing, as well as a cure. i would hate being on oxy's or other synthetic opiate for the long term. that is not a pretty road. i am amazed at the strength in people who have dealt with long term pain management, going it totally organically. at the same time my pain tolerance is rather shit right now. i am not, nor will ever be a doctor. just the driver of this body through life.

 

[RoryN]

An emotional non response that isn't on topic?

Ohhhhh impressive standards!!

Riiiiiiight....because this ^^^^ wasn't one. lol

 

[BotanyBoy]

Riiiiiiight....because this ^^^^ wasn't one. lol

Considering it directly addressed and shit all over your post, exposing it as one of emotional feel good ignoring facts? Nah it wasn't.