Deficit shrinks by $1 trillion in Obama era

[AlexVega]

It's like a Jim Carrey movie in here of Dumb and Dumber. Which one are you Sean?

I think Dan is Lloyd with the intelligence and baked factor of Thomas Chong

I absolutely wrecked this thread. I'm just going to close it down before bot tries to embarrass himself further trying to understand things like shareholders living in different countries, taking loans out in other countries, and obtain profits in a different country. He also wouldn't be able to understand how in an open economy, like the U.S., corporate taxes would largely fall on capital and not labor or consumers.

Anyway, after that absolute destruction of bot's pathetic asshole I'm just gunna close this thread

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy40/azzezino/closed.jpg

Except out taxes are irresponsibly low.

 

[phrodeau]

It's like a Jim Carrey movie in here of Dumb and Dumber. Which one are you Sean?

I think Dan is Lloyd with the intelligence and baked factor of Thomas Chong

You have impressed me with your cultural knowledge.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You have impressed me with your cultural knowledge.

Queerbait has been unemployed since last fall. He's had a lot of time to watch movies.

 

[DeYaKen]

Except Scandinavian countries are smart, if your not a genius, rich as fuck or marrying one of their citizens then you don't get to live there.

That's not true. Any citizen of any EU country can live and work in a Scandinavian Country. That includes Norway, which isn't in the EU.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That's not true. Any citizen of any EU country can live and work in a Scandinavian Country. That includes Norway, which isn't in the EU.

Oh yea visas and shit, I should have been more specific....citizenship. It's practically infuckingpossible for an average person to immigrate there.

I know as a non billionaire/no PhD having American just short of getting married to a Swedish woman and making some babies it just wasn't ever going to happen. I'm an American slave and I've managed to become comfy with that.

 

[AlexVega]

I get the feeling, sir...that you would spend a million dollars on a study to prove that "little people" are only five years old: once.

So, I understand your confusion on adult subjects.

In the not-too-distant past, talk in the political world of the U.S. budget deficit was all the rage. As the Tea Party “movement” took shape, conservatives quite literally took to the streets to express their fear that President Obama and Democrats were failing to address the “out of control” deficit.

Congressional Republicans agreed. As recently as 2013, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was asked about the radicalism of his political agenda and he responded, “[W]hat I would say is extreme is a trillion-dollar deficit every year.” Around the same time, then-House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) argued that Congress should be “focused on trying to deal with the ultimate problem, which is this growing deficit.”

The Republican rhetoric was ridiculously wrong. We don’t have a trillion-dollar deficit; the deficit isn’t the ultimate problem; and it’s not growing.
Strong growth in individual tax collection drove the U.S. budget deficit to a fresh Obama-era low in fiscal 2015, the Treasury Department said Thursday.

For the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30 the shortfall was $439 billion, a decrease of 9%, or $44 billion, from last year. The deficit is the smallest of Barack Obama’s presidency and the lowest since 2007 in both dollar terms and as a percentage of gross domestic product.
Keep in mind, in the Obama era, the deficit has shrunk by $1 trillion. That’s “trillion,” with a “t.” As a percentage of the economy, the deficit is now down to just 2.5%, which is below the average of the past half-century, and down from 9.8% when the president took office.

Revisiting our coverage from several months ago, I looked for press releases from the “Obama is turning us into Greece!” crowd, eager to see them celebrate President Obama’s striking record on deficit reduction, but so far, nothing has turned up. Maybe they’re busy.

And in practical terms, that’s a shame. The vast majority of Americans are absolutely certain – thanks to deceptive Republican rhetoric and unfortunate news coverage – that the deficit has soared in the Obama era. Late last year, a Bloomberg Politics Poll found that 73% of the public believes the deficit has gotten bigger over the last six years.

The year before, the same pollster found that only 6% of Americans realized the deficit was shrinking. It helps explain why the president hasn’t gotten any credit for deficit reduction, which seems like the sort of development Tea Partiers and the Beltway’s Very Serious People should consider an extraordinary accomplishment.

As we talked about last year, it’s tempting to conclude that the public’s confusion doesn’t matter. In the Clinton era, the deficit disappeared entirely, and Americans had no idea.

But there’s another side to this. Whether or not Americans know and/or understand the basics of the fiscal argument may not have a practical impact on the debate itself, but the fact remains that voters are ultimately responsible for electing policymakers. If Americans believe, incorrectly, that the deficit is getting bigger, these same voters may be inclined to vote for candidates who’ll slash public investments and undermine social-insurance programs – which would have real-world consequences.

Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don’t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.

That said, if we’re going to have a fiscal debate, it should at least be rooted in reality, not silly misconceptions. And the reality is, we’re witnessing deficit reduction at a truly remarkable clip. Every conservative complaint about fiscal recklessness and irresponsibility in the Obama era is quantifiably ridiculous.

http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/styles/embedded_image/public/10.15.15_0.jpg?itok=diS1IQOY

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/deficit-shrinks-1-trillion-obama-era

 

[Boxlicker101]

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was ridiculous, and I still do. Somehow, I can't get enthusiastic about the idea that the nation went slightly less deeply in debt than it has in previous years. We owe 19 trillion dollars, and that is what counts.

Occasionally, I read or hear somebody saying something like: "For the price of that aircraft carrier, we could have built a thousand schools or ten thousand units of affordable housing." Maybe so but, if it weren't for interest payments on the massive debt, we could buy that much and more.

 

[BotanyBoy]

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was ridiculous, and I still do. Somehow, I can't get enthusiastic about the idea that the nation went slightly less deeply in debt than it has in previous years. We owe 19 trillion dollars, and that is what counts.

Occasionally, I read or hear somebody saying something like: "For the price of that aircraft carrier, we could have built a thousand schools or ten thousand units of affordable housing." Maybe so but, if it weren't for interest payments on the massive debt, we could buy that much and more.

Gee if only there was a way to pay off some debt......where the fuck is that trickle down Reagan promised box??

We can't raise taxes on the people who own practically the entire fucking country, that would be EVIL COMMUNISM!! That would be some insane Bernie Sanders talk!!

It's time to squeeze the poor/middle class for more and the trickle will start any day now! Like real Americans, conservative Republicans!!

Better cut taxes for that top 20%!!! It's the only way to pay our debts!!!
http://www.ragingpencils.com/misc/2012/wealth-distribution-big.jpg

 

[Sean Renaud]

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was ridiculous, and I still do. Somehow, I can't get enthusiastic about the idea that the nation went slightly less deeply in debt than it has in previous years. We owe 19 trillion dollars, and that is what counts.

Occasionally, I read or hear somebody saying something like: "For the price of that aircraft carrier, we could have built a thousand schools or ten thousand units of affordable housing." Maybe so but, if it weren't for interest payments on the massive debt, we could buy that much and more.

It's hard to get excited over numbers. Nothing is blowing up, it's not sexy. It's policy stuff. However the fact that we're 19 trillion in debt really isn't what counts. The only thing that truly matters is our ability to make payments on time.

Yes we could and should alter our spending. If you accept the fact that educated people contribute more to the country than uneducated people those schools are goddamn vital. If for the sake of argument one tenth of one percent of the kids going to a given school turn out to be worth a damn that's still (depending on where exactly in the nation you're talking about.) One kid per year per school you built.

 

[JackLuis]

It's hard to get excited over numbers. Nothing is blowing up, it's not sexy. It's policy stuff. However the fact that we're 19 trillion in debt really isn't what counts. The only thing that truly matters is our ability to make payments on time.

Yes we could and should alter our spending. If you accept the fact that educated people contribute more to the country than uneducated people those schools are goddamn vital. If for the sake of argument one tenth of one percent of the kids going to a given school turn out to be worth a damn that's still (depending on where exactly in the nation you're talking about.) One kid per year per school you built.

Simply 'making the payments' on the prior debt is why this country is soooo FUCKED. We should make every effort to raise more income. Which means raising taxes and tariffs to pay off the debt and not to add more bureaucrats.

Since we can't expect the lower income tax payer to pay any more, he was tapped out by the latest Wall Street finagle, we have to look at sources which have the money to pay for the Wars, Deficit Spending, Infrastructure and Supporting a Military at 7x the cost everybody else in the world pays for Defense.

We need F-35's, et al, so that the people our Corporations and Government pisses off at America, don't come over here and start wreaking our country like we have theirs!

So maybe we have to cut off Corporate welfare, close a few loopholes and prosecute a few Assholes and get the Honey Pot refilled. Sure things might be hard for a few years, but how can we leave this mess for our Grand kids? Those poor bastards will have it rough enough, what with the fucking weather and the loss of most of our seafood.

So I'm sure that Goldman Sachs, and the big bankers would adapt to a transaction tax on the Stock market and restriction of the flow of money into Tax Heavens. We could probably raise a $Trillion a year from that alone. Raising the Capital gains tax would add a bit too.

I mean if the Government is going to provide the conditions for a market to exist it is only proper that those who benefit from that market pay for the privilege of living in a free country where they can make Millions-Billions a year.

I'm sure that the New President can push this common sense program through our civic minded Congress, if he uses the power of the office to adjust the attitude of some Senators and Governors.

"Nice little State you have there, be a shame if the highways couldn't be maintained, bridges built, Military Bases moved, or maybe and investigation as to why your police are so evil, or why the water is poisoning people?"

 

[BotanyBoy]

Simply 'making the payments' on the prior debt is why this country is soooo FUCKED. We should make every effort to raise more income. Which means raising taxes and tariffs to pay off the debt and not to add more bureaucrats.

Since we can't expect the lower income tax payer to pay any more, he was tapped out by the latest Wall Street finagle, we have to look at sources which have the money to pay for the Wars, Deficit Spending, Infrastructure and Supporting a Military at 7x the cost everybody else in the world pays for Defense.

We need F-35's, et al, so that the people our Corporations and Government pisses off at America, don't come over here and start wreaking our country like we have theirs!

So maybe we have to cut off Corporate welfare, close a few loopholes and prosecute a few Assholes and get the Honey Pot refilled. Sure things might be hard for a few years, but how can we leave this mess for our Grand kids? Those poor bastards will have it rough enough, what with the fucking weather and the loss of most of our seafood.

So I'm sure that Goldman Sachs, and the big bankers would adapt to a transaction tax on the Stock market and restriction of the flow of money into Tax Heavens. We could probably raise a $Trillion a year from that alone. Raising the Capital gains tax would add a bit too.

I mean if the Government is going to provide the conditions for a market to exist it is only proper that those who benefit from that market pay for the privilege of living in a free country where they can make Millions-Billions a year.

I'm sure that the New President can push this common sense program through our civic minded Congress, if he uses the power of the office to adjust the attitude of some Senators and Governors.

"Nice little State you have there, be a shame if the highways couldn't be maintained, bridges built, Military Bases moved, or maybe and investigation as to why your police are so evil, or why the water is poisoning people?"

All commie speak!! Don't you know you can't tax the rich because Robbin Hood is evil communism?

Rich people shouldn't have to pay!! Just as a Republican.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Simply 'making the payments' on the prior debt is why this country is soooo FUCKED. We should make every effort to raise more income. Which means raising taxes and tariffs to pay off the debt and not to add more bureaucrats.

Since we can't expect the lower income tax payer to pay any more, he was tapped out by the latest Wall Street finagle, we have to look at sources which have the money to pay for the Wars, Deficit Spending, Infrastructure and Supporting a Military at 7x the cost everybody else in the world pays for Defense.

We need F-35's, et al, so that the people our Corporations and Government pisses off at America, don't come over here and start wreaking our country like we have theirs!

So maybe we have to cut off Corporate welfare, close a few loopholes and prosecute a few Assholes and get the Honey Pot refilled. Sure things might be hard for a few years, but how can we leave this mess for our Grand kids? Those poor bastards will have it rough enough, what with the fucking weather and the loss of most of our seafood.

So I'm sure that Goldman Sachs, and the big bankers would adapt to a transaction tax on the Stock market and restriction of the flow of money into Tax Heavens. We could probably raise a $Trillion a year from that alone. Raising the Capital gains tax would add a bit too.

I mean if the Government is going to provide the conditions for a market to exist it is only proper that those who benefit from that market pay for the privilege of living in a free country where they can make Millions-Billions a year.

I'm sure that the New President can push this common sense program through our civic minded Congress, if he uses the power of the office to adjust the attitude of some Senators and Governors.

"Nice little State you have there, be a shame if the highways couldn't be maintained, bridges built, Military Bases moved, or maybe and investigation as to why your police are so evil, or why the water is poisoning people?"

I'm not arguing we shouldn't raise income or get the debt down some (though I've read multiple articles from economists claiming that we don't even know what would happen to the economy if we actually eliminated the debt) but paying on time and in full is the only actual important part. There is a reason why the debt keeps growing and it's ultimately because everybody knows (knew up until that one time Republicans threatened to default) that we're good for it. Loaning the US money is one of the safest investments on the fucking planet.

As for corporate welfare it's distasteful at times sure but I'm not 100% convinced it's actually the boogeyman it's made out to be and as for our kids and grandkids the best thing we can leave them is a strong economy with upward mobility. The debt really isn't that important so long as they can make payments on it.

tl:dr
I'd rather inherit Microsoft while it's a billion dollars in debt than be debt free with no job.

 

[contrifan32]

All commie speak!! Don't you know you can't tax the rich because Robbin Hood is evil communism?

Rich people shouldn't have to pay!! Just as a Republican.

Feelin' the Bern today Buzz Boy?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Feelin' the Bern today Buzz Boy?

Not yet, still too many Reagan worshiping pseudo socialist boomers around insisting that trickle down is going to start any day now if we give the rich some more tax cuts.

Give it 10-15 years, the last of the boomers will still be waiting on the trickle down, insisting our debt will go away if we just cut the top 20% some more slack and the kids are going dismantle your corporate oligarchy and socialize this bitch properly.

 

[DeYaKen]

Oh yea visas and shit, I should have been more specific...

Bit of pot calling the kettle black here.

Have you seen what you have to do to get a Visa just to visit the United States? By signing the application form you give the US security services carte blanche to interrogate all government computer systems and your bank accounts. In fact, they are privy to information that we are not allowed to see about ourselves, Once you have a visa that is still no guarantee you will be granted entry. Most European countries put a Visa requirement on US citizens in a tit for tat move following the first world trade centre bombing. Britain didn't because we get planty of tourist dollars from you.

citizenship. It's practically infuckingpossible for an average person to immigrate there.

Maybe, but it is also totally unnecessary. Get citizenship of any other EU country and you can move to Sweden and enjoy all the benefits of a Swedish citizen. Hell, if you do it in Britain they won't even make you give up your US security blanket.

I know as a non billionaire/no PhD having American just short of getting married to a Swedish woman and making some babies it just wasn't ever going to happen. I'm an American slave and I've managed to become comfy with that.

I don't recall ever suggesting that you emigrate. I just said you can point to these countries and say if they can do it so can we. If people leave your country just because you ask them to pay fair taxes, then they are the sort of leeches that you don't want. If their sole motivation is money then they are the sort of people who will export jobs to take advantage of cheap foreign labour.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Bit of pot calling the kettle black here.

That might hold water if I was saying we should open borders but I don't.

Personally I think you have to have strict immigration policy with socialism....or the world will show up and bankrupt your bitch ass.

Maybe, but it is also totally unnecessary. Get citizenship of any other EU country

Name an EU country that will let me be a citizen tomorrow because I'm a good looking American who can show up and fill out paperwork......

Yea none is what I thought.

Gotta have a job, fuck tons of money or a baby in one of their women or you're not getting in.

I don't recall ever suggesting that you emigrate. I just said you can point to these countries and say if they can do it so can we.

That's the only way it goes down. We've been pointing to those countries and saying it for years.....Reagan won, fuck Americans, that's the current standard.

If people leave your country just because you ask them to pay fair taxes,

They are leaving because the taxes that we already pay ar unfiar.

84 billion for schools, can't even turn the lights on. We pay 3x what you pay for HC and not only can we not get everyone HC but aspirin is still 600 fucking dollars a pill.

There is NOTHING fair about our taxes, unlike Europeans we spend more and get less....MUCH LESS. If 100% of people gave the US government 100% of every dollar they earned for 10 years Elementary schools would still be throwing bake sales to get chalk/paper for classrooms. We are the best country at making trillions just vanish into nothingness.

 

[DeYaKen]

Name an EU country that will let me be a citizen tomorrow because I'm a good looking American who can show up and fill out paperwork......

Yea none is what I thought.

Gotta have a job, fuck tons of money or a baby in one of their women or you're not getting in.

A US citizen can come to Britain without a Visa. If you are offered a job you can apply for a work permit and get it. Even without a job, if you can support yourself you can apply for permanent residency. I think you have to be here a year before you can apply for citizenship. You'd be halfway there with the citizenship test because Americans almost speak the language already. BTW if you have British relations or ancestors, i,e, grandparents, citizenship is guaranteed.

They are leaving because the taxes that we already pay ar unfiar.

I was referring to the wealth creators that the politicians tell you will leave if you make them pay as much tax as the man in the street.

84 billion for schools, can't even turn the lights on.

Sad thing is, guess where our politicians go to look for ideas in education.

We pay 3x what you pay for HC and not only can we not get everyone HC but aspirin is still 600 fucking dollars a pill.

I'm glad you brought that up because I'm pretty damn proud of our Health Care but a lot of our politicians say it costs too much, we need an American System. I won't go into details, but in my youth I had a motorcycle accident which left me with a problem that affects many other parts of the body as I get older. Whatever those problems are they will be treated, without complaints about pre-existing conditions. The man who sorted me out was orthopedic consultant to the International Olympic committee, and treated a large number of professional sportsmen/women. It cost me no more, just keep paying my taxes.

There is NOTHING fair about our taxes, unlike Europeans we spend more and get less....MUCH LESS. If 100% of people gave the US government 100% of every dollar they earned for 10 years Elementary schools would still be throwing bake sales to get chalk/paper for classrooms. We are the best country at making trillions just vanish into nothingness.

I had heard things like the man in the street pays more in tax than the average millionaire, but never knew how true that was. You do spend a lot on defence, but that isn't necessarily on men and equipment, ( though your soldiers are better equipped than ours) A lot of that money goes to pay Haliburton to provide burgers at $60 each.

Our schools don't use chalk anymore, but they do need more cash.

I don't think Americans would go for our tax system. Tax is deducted from your salary here. It's called Pay As You Earn. the employer collects the tax and pays it to the Inland Revenue. Every penny you earn over £11,500 is taxed at 25%. if you earn more than £45,000 then the tax on what you earn above that threshold is 40%. The only people who fill in tax returns are the self-employed. They can claim many expenses against tax so they usually end up paying less. However, they also get less in the way of benefits. They can't claim statutory sick pay or unemployment etc. Of course, if you are earning hundreds of thousands then you set up a company in grand cayman and they pay your salary and grand cayman tax (£0) and they supposedly subcontract you out to the company in Britain. So the very rich still pay very little as a proportion of their income.

 

[BotanyBoy]

A US citizen can come to Britain without a Visa. If you are offered a job you can apply for a work permit and get it. Even without a job, if you can support yourself you can apply for permanent residency. I think you have to be here a year before you can apply for citizenship. You'd be halfway there with the citizenship test because Americans almost speak the language already. BTW if you have British relations or ancestors, i,e, grandparents, citizenship is guaranteed.

Meh....it's too much fuckin' hassle and I'm not rich enough.

Nope I'm Swedish/Dutch, but I'm a mutt and American and not a particularly wealthy one at that so they wouldn't want my nasty ass around nor should they. I'm nothing but a risk/liability for them, not a likely contributor to their society.

Our schools don't use chalk anymore, but they do need more cash.

Point being the US government can't buy a roll of toilet paper without first inflating the price to 300 trillion dollars a piece first.

We could spend every penny we have on education...none of it would ever make it into the class rooms.

 

[phrodeau]

Soooo... the national debt measured in Halliburgers isn't such a big deal.

 

[srgreene]

You Deceive

Only 7 trillion more to go to pay for the lies that got us into Iraq etc.
/s

Nope, they were not lies. You totally mis-represent W. And had we not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have gotten WMDs, including, quite likely, nukes.

Instead, Obama bestowed- or is bestowing- that honor on Iran, the nation whose most frequent political refrain is "Death to America". Gee, what could go wrong with this scenario?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nope, they were not lies. You totally mis-represent W. And had we not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have gotten WMDs, including, quite likely, nukes.

Instead, Obama bestowed- or is bestowing- that honor on Iran, the nation whose most frequent political refrain is "Death to America". Gee, what could go wrong with this scenario?

Nothing, they will never do anything because they are Muslims and that means they are totally perfect!!

 

[phrodeau]

Nope, they were not lies. You totally mis-represent W. And had we not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have gotten WMDs, including, quite likely, nukes.

Instead, Obama bestowed- or is bestowing- that honor on Iran, the nation whose most frequent political refrain is "Death to America". Gee, what could go wrong with this scenario?

There are two Joe Wilsons in recent history who have made claims that the President lied. But only one has the force of evidence behind his assertion. Care to guess which one?

 

[sr71plt]

Nope, they were not lies. You totally mis-represent W. And had we not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have gotten WMDs, including, quite likely, nukes.

Once more, we knew Hussein had WMDs--because we sold/gave them to him to offset Iran with (not necessarily to use them). We kept track of them all. Some were used on the Kurds. Some were sold. Most deteriorated because the Iraqis didn't have a clue how to maintain them, and we didn't bother to help them with that. The Bush administration was given all of the information it needed to know what was there and what wasn't. The Iraqis were never in the league to manage, let alone acquire, nukes. WMDs were never even remotely a legitimate reason for invading Iraq. (A smart administration would have just salted some there to find--and they were told that at the time; the Bush administration wasn't a smart administration). In fact, Hussein probably would have been manageable and would have stopped razzing the United States and the Bushes in media if the U.S. government had just gotten him a publishing contract for his novels (and bought copies up to the NYT best-sellers list and then just pulped them).

 

[Sean Renaud]

Nope, they were not lies. You totally mis-represent W. And had we not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have gotten WMDs, including, quite likely, nukes.

Instead, Obama bestowed- or is bestowing- that honor on Iran, the nation whose most frequent political refrain is "Death to America". Gee, what could go wrong with this scenario?

The were untruths. Whether or not he lied, was lied to or simply had bad information is ultimately irrelevant at this moment. If we hadn't invaded Iraq Saddam would not have gotten nukes. At least not by now. Sooner or later everybody including kids in their backyards will get them.

Obama has bestowed no such honor on Iran. They lack the tech to get nukes, the desire and even if they got them the damage they could ultimately do is relatively low. Currently they lack ICBMs, and we have anti-missile tech. Absolute worst case scenario they nuke New York (well part of it. The largest bomb ever tested the Tsar Bomba wouldn't take out New York) they'd get a few million maybe and we'd end their country.

Nothing, they will never do anything because they are Muslims and that means they are totally perfect!!

No. They are people and are generally rational. Sure a few of them are genuinely straight up nuts as hell but the overwhelming majority aren't. MAD kept crazy Americans and crazy Russians from even daring to take the field against one another because that shit might get out of hand. In all likelihood it would work on Iran as well.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No. They are people and are generally rational.

You think the Ayatollah or Iranian President is rational?

Seriously?

In all likelihood it would work on Iran as well.

You have more faith in religious whack jobs than I do.