FAWC 5: Line, Please!

[Swilly]

And I apologize to you pl, for mentioning you in a positive light. Seems that contributed to you being labeled part of the clique. Maybe all of you. I said I'd ignore. I should make good on that.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Shea, I actually thought your knife scene might have been the hottest scene in the contest. I loved SC's pool scene, as well. The True Oracle was steamy too.

 

[PennLady]

Well, no, "Shawn" isn't the female spelling. I googled it and every reference to that spelling came up male--none came up female. So, at best, it's an ambiguous spelling.

Think it's something to be careful about in making choices. You'd use on like that if the ambiguity was needed in the story. You'd try to avoid it otherwise, though.

Okay, fine. I've known two women in my life with that name, and both spelled it "Shawn." Then again, there is the actress Sean Young. So it appears that there isn't a spelling exclusive to either gender. Still, based on my personal experience, I read it as female.

And I probably wouldn't think twice about using it as a character name, except it hasn't occurred to me to do so.

 

[sheablue]

Shea, I actually thought your knife scene might have been the hottest scene in the contest. I loved SC's pool scene, as well. The True Oracle was steamy too.

Thanks! Yeah, The True Oracle was really steamy. So was Bluetooth, in a creepy way. I just started reading SC's story. I'm hoping to add some comments to what I missed before the end of the night. End this whole fucking thing on a positive note.

In your story, I wondered if, shoot, Joshua? really talked that way, or if she's remembering him in a rosier light. He seems pretty clever to me. Was it more his circumstances and "lack of ambition" that made her think he was too dumb for her?

 

[sr71plt]

Okay, fine. I've known two women in my life with that name, and both spelled it "Shawn." Then again, there is the actress Sean Young. So it appears that there isn't a spelling exclusive to either gender. Still, based on my personal experience, I read it as female.

And I probably wouldn't think twice about using it as a character name, except it hasn't occurred to me to do so.

But you don't see the unnecessary problem for the reader in using an ambiguous-gender name without a purpose in the story?

 

[sheablue]

But you don't see the unnecessary problem for the reader in using an ambiguous-gender name without a purpose in the story?

As I stated earlier, I agree the name is too ambiguous, and since there is not a reason for it, I will change it when I do a rewrite. Enough people were tripped up by it at the beginning, and I want to avoid that kind of disconnect that early in the story.

 

[stlgoddessfreya]

SC: Hey! Where's Freya? C'mon back in here, I wanna here the audio commentary to Bullet. I know it's been "discussed", I want the afterword.

I already did a short post about writing Bullet and Bluetooth, but if anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Here's the post:

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=58017991&postcount=1133

 

[sheablue]

SecondCircle: Wow! That is quite an opening! I just read the opening to your story and I'm totally hooked. To create that much tension in such a short amount of time is really impressive!

 

[slyc_willie]

I was about to call it quits on this thread because of all the egotistical posturing going on. Considering how many posts in this thread have been supposed clarifying defensive remarks back and forth, I'm glad the next FAWC isn't going to be for a while. Maybe in five or six months the maturity level will rise a bit.

And yes, I fully expect at least one defensive remark to come about as a response to this.

Sorry, I'm not going to feel the guilt for not reading a 20,000-word "short" story.

Nowhere was it stated any story had to be "short." Your resistance to reading anything beyond a certain length seems both ridiculous and insulting to me and anyone else who has written a story more than three pages long. It would be like anyone else saying they aren't going to read yours because there was a bisexual character in it. The arbitrariness of it is what's insulting.

Let's talk about Oracle a moment. I loved the way Slyc wrote his story. It was like a cross between The Gunslinger and ... something else Sci-Fi that I can't remember right now. I loved the description of the Blacknails and wanted to hear more about the other monsters ... gapemaws? The only thing I didn't understand was why he had to kill himself at the end. He wouldn't even give the book to the True Oracle because he knew she was a fake. So why did he have to kill himself? And how could Adastriana forget the damn hankie!

The point of Gavin killing himself was that he was duty-bound to obey orders. I wanted to show that aspect of him through to the end. But his "coming out of his shell" part was that he knew there was one use left of the healing handkerchief, and he hoped Adastriana would remember as well. That was his end run around the problem of obeying his duty.

Why Adastriana didn't remember . . . I had hoped (though it apparently didn't work out) to convey that she was stunned and numb from all that had just happened. All this violence, the revelation of the Oracle, watching Gavin kill himself, then the appearance of an actual god (and the Dark One, no less) . . . it would be enough to shock anybody into temporary stupidity. In the rewrite, I'm either going to redo that entire scene (possibly to make Adastriana more heroic in the end) or emphasize more what was going through her mind.

* * * *

Thanks, Shea, SC and those others who have been trying to keep story discussion afloat.

The rest can fuck off. After all the petty bullshit and sniping and carping and grandstanding I've seen the last several days . . . meh. Grow up. And don't snip about my use of *gasp* profanity, either. We all know an angry adult can say "fuck" once in a while. Anyway, I need a break from Lit. I'll check my PMs on FAWCker but that's about it. I'm not even looking at the main forum page.

Good night, good luck, God loves you and so do I. Thanks for the FAWC. Next time will be more civil, I hope.

 

[patientlee]

Thanks, I like where both of the characters were going. Annalise was meant to be more mysterious and hard to read.

Ah, the eyeball. First I had them described as realistic, but then I changed them to looking so fake, like they would in a storefront fortune teller's room. But I still wanted it to wink. Would it feel creepier if the eyeballs looked realistic and Clara just assumes they must be fake? It is true than an eyeball that looks like a marble or a rubber ball really can't wink.

Of course it winked. When I read that, I wished my dead things in jars in Mrs. Maitland had waved!

I just wanted Shawn to be there at the end.

And there are no boys' names and girls' names anymore. A couple of years ago I had a class with a Stevie, an Avery, a Ryan, and a Sean. All girls.

My first teaching experience as a sophomore in college- there was a boy in the class named Kaleigh. In this day and age, it's a girl's name.

I don't think there are any rules about spelling names anymore.

 

[sheablue]

Uh-oh, you guys. We made Dad mad.

Slyc -- I guess I didn't understand why duty made him kill himself. Didn't they make it there on time? I thought he did it because she told him to. Maybe I'm forgetting a detail ...

I like that Adastriana was so upset she didn't remember right away about the hankie. But I thought she would snap to it before the Dark One had to remind her. Or maybe he reminds her more subtly? It's a small point, I really loved the story.

I was about to call it quits on this thread because of all the egotistical posturing going on. Considering how many posts in this thread have been supposed clarifying defensive remarks back and forth, I'm glad the next FAWC isn't going to be for a while. Maybe in five or six months the maturity level will rise a bit.

And yes, I fully expect at least one defensive remark to come about as a response to this.



Nowhere was it stated any story had to be "short." Your resistance to reading anything beyond a certain length seems both ridiculous and insulting to me and anyone else who has written a story more than three pages long. It would be like anyone else saying they aren't going to read yours because there was a bisexual character in it. The arbitrariness of it is what's insulting.



The point of Gavin killing himself was that he was duty-bound to obey orders. I wanted to show that aspect of him through to the end. But his "coming out of his shell" part was that he knew there was one use left of the healing handkerchief, and he hoped Adastriana would remember as well. That was his end run around the problem of obeying his duty.

Why Adastriana didn't remember . . . I had hoped (though it apparently didn't work out) to convey that she was stunned and numb from all that had just happened. All this violence, the revelation of the Oracle, watching Gavin kill himself, then the appearance of an actual god (and the Dark One, no less) . . . it would be enough to shock anybody into temporary stupidity. In the rewrite, I'm either going to redo that entire scene (possibly to make Adastriana more heroic in the end) or emphasize more what was going through her mind.

* * * *

Thanks, Shea, SC and those others who have been trying to keep story discussion afloat.

The rest can fuck off. After all the petty bullshit and sniping and carping and grandstanding I've seen the last several days . . . meh. Grow up. And don't snip about my use of *gasp* profanity, either. We all know an angry adult can say "fuck" once in a while. Anyway, I need a break from Lit. I'll check my PMs on FAWCker but that's about it. I'm not even looking at the main forum page.

Good night, good luck, God loves you and so do I. Thanks for the FAWC. Next time will be more civil, I hope.

 

[PennLady]

But you don't see the unnecessary problem for the reader in using an ambiguous-gender name without a purpose in the story?

Not particularly. If I give a character a name and specify the character's gender, I think that should end the problem. Also I'd bet for as many people as might be confused, there's be as many like me, that wouldn't.

That's not to say I wouldn't play with it, because I have. In "Rhythm and the Blue Line," the main female character is named Ryan Riley Bancroft, and that was to help highlight the bad relationship with her father. He was so sure his first child would be a son, and he'd name the boy after himself, that he was stunned to have a daughter and named her Nolan Ryan and Pat Riley.

 

[SecondCircle]

Sorry I was uh... Mrs. Circle... whatever, I was distracted.

Anyhow, Shea the only thing that struck me odd (and I think another commenter?) was trying to wrap my head around how an eyeball winks with no eyelid. But even so the effect you wanted happened with me. It kinda... startled me. ... or

I think the "knife" thing worked as is. To me it was kinda like steady pace, steady pace, steady pace... wham! shocker. I just didn't see that coming and it solidified the "holy shit these artifacts got a grip on her!" thing. As is, I say. <downs shot>

I think Oracle ended very cool. There's so many endings a reader WANTS but I rarely think those endings are best. I totally identified with the "duty" characteristic, where you're caught between what is right and your obligation, and when you throw all to the wind for something stronger. That was a great arc.

 

[SecondCircle]

The opening to Roses? Mmm. Meh. I thought I was way too vague leading into that cliff hanger. It seemed nondescript and personally, every other story I read opened with a more interesting and more telling lead. Maybe that's just me.

 

[stlgoddessfreya]

The point of Gavin killing himself was that he was duty-bound to obey orders. I wanted to show that aspect of him through to the end. But his "coming out of his shell" part was that he knew there was one use left of the healing handkerchief, and he hoped Adastriana would remember as well. That was his end run around the problem of obeying his duty.

I thought the contrast between Gavin's devotion to duty and Adastriana's desire to run away from even her lighter duty was well done. I thought you showed the good of Gavin following his duty - his confidence in what he's doing, his skill, his place in the world - and the bad - no romantic relationships, honor-bound to kill and die in the course of his mission. I would have liked to see more discussion between Gavin and Adastriana about his duty and what she was fleeing to show either that being the True Oracle was going to be a heavy burden for her or that she was suited to it because of something deeper in her or because of something she learned from Gavin.

 

[patientlee]

Tell me more, tell me more. Did ya get very far? Tell me more, tell me more... (Insert Grease here)

Sorry I was uh... Mrs. Circle... whatever, I was distracted.

Anyhow, Shea the only thing that struck me odd (and I think another commenter?) was trying to wrap my head around how an eyeball winks with no eyelid. But even so the effect you wanted happened with me. It kinda... startled me. ... or

I think the "knife" thing worked as is. To me it was kinda like steady pace, steady pace, steady pace... wham! shocker. I just didn't see that coming and it solidified the "holy shit these artifacts got a grip on her!" thing. As is, I say. <downs shot>

I think Oracle ended very cool. There's so many endings a reader WANTS but I rarely think those endings are best. I totally identified with the "duty" characteristic, where you're caught between what is right and your obligation, and when you throw all to the wind for something stronger. That was a great arc.

 

[patientlee]

Damn the double post!

Sorry I was uh... Mrs. Circle... whatever, I was distracted.

Anyhow, Shea the only thing that struck me odd (and I think another commenter?) was trying to wrap my head around how an eyeball winks with no eyelid. But even so the effect you wanted happened with me. It kinda... startled me. ... or

I think the "knife" thing worked as is. To me it was kinda like steady pace, steady pace, steady pace... wham! shocker. I just didn't see that coming and it solidified the "holy shit these artifacts got a grip on her!" thing. As is, I say. <downs shot>

I think Oracle ended very cool. There's so many endings a reader WANTS but I rarely think those endings are best. I totally identified with the "duty" characteristic, where you're caught between what is right and your obligation, and when you throw all to the wind for something stronger. That was a great arc.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

Of course it winked. When I read that, I wished my dead things in jars in Mrs. Maitland had waved!

I just wanted Shawn to be there at the end.

And there are no boys' names and girls' names anymore. A couple of years ago I had a class with a Stevie, an Avery, a Ryan, and a Sean. All girls.

My first teaching experience as a sophomore in college- there was a boy in the class named Kaleigh. In this day and age, it's a girl's name.

I don't think there are any rules about spelling names anymore.

I mentioned in my critique that I saw Shawn and thought of a guy. Obviously within a few paragraphs I found out it was a woman and had to reset my assumptions.

Personally, I feel any name is fine. The issue was my interpretation. It could have been made clear at the time the name was first presented that it was a female. For instance, right after her name was first introduced:

"Where did Shawn find this stuff?" you could have said something as simple as 'she bla-bla-bla.'

When I wrote the comment, I went and checked online. A list of 'ambiguous' names had Shawn in the top 100, with that spelling ending up 86% male. So I stuck with the comment.

I feel names are important. They make it easier for the reader. Some names, right or wrong, carry certain connotations, at least to the American audience. Like the scene from the movie 'Ted' where Markie-Mark starts rattling off the trailer trash names. It's funny because it's true.

Old-fashioned, upper-crust, hill-billy, country, effeminate, jocks, so many instant assumptions can be made upon hearing a name. For me, certain female names have historic elements in my life, and probably skew the sentiments.

Mavourneen is an uncommon name, and a name I love. For personal reasons. I've never used it in a story, but may well do it some day. I don't know how people would take it.

As for the winking eye, I commented on that as well. Sorry. I think of an eyeball in a jar as just the internal orb. Eyelids wink. Real, marble, good imitation, whatever. If it's just the white and the iris, I couldn't picture it winking. Speedbump in reading, while I stop and consider that. That was all I wanted to point out. I actually like the concept, the part where it turned to face her was eerie.

I agree with AMB, the knife scene was hot. One of the more erotic scenes in the contest.

In my opinion, this story is woefully underrated, as far as scoring.

 

[SecondCircle]

To Freya, I haven't read yours so I owe you your reads. I don't ever mind spoilers because I don't really think they spoil the feel of a story.

To PennLady, I mentioned in a comment how you were able to change your "voice". For a moment there, (and a couple more moments) I was actually buying into some of your attempts because of how well you could write particular categories. I could believe a sci fi from the way you write or a fantasy or mystery. Though your "author" couldn't settle on one, it was pretty clear you could take any category and run with it. You write any sci fi or anything different? I know you can do romance easily, but any thoughts on those others?

To Pilot, I ordered you a scotch. The real deal. Just an offer. I missed several of the discussions on Hanky. But if I have you at the bar, I haven't read it and thus was just wondering. How did you approach the bisex? I've tinkered with the topic here and there and I was curious as to your style with it.

 

[sheablue]

I thought the contrast between Gavin's devotion to duty and Adastriana's desire to run away from even her lighter duty was well done. I thought you showed the good of Gavin following his duty - his confidence in what he's doing, his skill, his place in the world - and the bad - no romantic relationships, honor-bound to kill and die in the course of his mission. I would have liked to see more discussion between Gavin and Adastriana about his duty and what she was fleeing to show either that being the True Oracle was going to be a heavy burden for her or that she was suited to it because of something deeper in her or because of something she learned from Gavin.

I liked this aspect, as well. And I'm totally cool with Gavin killing himself because he is duty bound, I just missed whether is was because the oracle told him to, or because they were late. I'll have to go back and look at the ending.

 

[SecondCircle]

Tell me more, tell me more. Did ya get very far? Tell me more, tell me more... (Insert Grease here)

Um, got all they way.

 

[sheablue]

The opening to Roses? Mmm. Meh. I thought I was way too vague leading into that cliff hanger. It seemed nondescript and personally, every other story I read opened with a more interesting and more telling lead. Maybe that's just me.

No, I disagree. I'm a horror fanatic and I thought it was a nicely tense beginning, that pulled me in and made me want more. I'm not finished with it yet, though, so don't give anything away.

 

[sheablue]

I mentioned in my critique that I saw Shawn and thought of a guy. Obviously within a few paragraphs I found out it was a woman and had to reset my assumptions.

Personally, I feel any name is fine. The issue was my interpretation. It could have been made clear at the time the name was first presented that it was a female. For instance, right after her name was first introduced:

"Where did Shawn find this stuff?" you could have said something as simple as 'she bla-bla-bla.'

When I wrote the comment, I went and checked online. A list of 'ambiguous' names had Shawn in the top 100, with that spelling ending up 86% male. So I stuck with the comment.

I feel names are important. They make it easier for the reader. Some names, right or wrong, carry certain connotations, at least to the American audience. Like the scene from the movie 'Ted' where Markie-Mark starts rattling off the trailer trash names. It's funny because it's true.

Old-fashioned, upper-crust, hill-billy, country, effeminate, jocks, so many instant assumptions can be made upon hearing a name. For me, certain female names have historic elements in my life, and probably skew the sentiments.

Mavourneen is an uncommon name, and a name I love. For personal reasons. I've never used it in a story, but may well do it some day. I don't know how people would take it.

As for the winking eye, I commented on that as well. Sorry. I think of an eyeball in a jar as just the internal orb. Eyelids wink. Real, marble, good imitation, whatever. If it's just the white and the iris, I couldn't picture it winking. Speedbump in reading, while I stop and consider that. That was all I wanted to point out. I actually like the concept, the part where it turned to face her was eerie.

I agree with AMB, the knife scene was hot. One of the more erotic scenes in the contest.

In my opinion, this story is woefully underrated, as far as scoring.

Thanks, I appreciated your comments. I knew someone would take me to task on all of the errors, I just couldn't decide whether to pull it once I realized how many there were, or just roll with it and take my lumps.

Maybe just the turning of they eye to stare at her was enough?

I like your idea, of identifying her as female sooner, to avoid that bump. I kind of see her as Shawn now ...

Thanks for the comment on my score. It is my lowest scoring story, like evah, but I try not to let it bother me, because it was so rushed, and kind of fell apart at the end. Hopefully it will do much better when I resubmit it.

 

[drteetho]

I think all the petty bickering on this thread stems from one thing: giving that idiot JBJ any attention whatsoever. Seriously people, put him on ignore and move on with your lives!

And yes, I realize I've just broken my own rule here, so I vow this is the last time I say anything about him. If I break it again, feel free to wave this post in my face and ridicule me at will.

************

As for SC's request, and as far as the dialogue in my story went... I wanted to show that my main characters were nervous, and it's been my experience that young women of that age often laugh and giggle when they are nervous. Not saying they all do, but some definitely do. I think most of you that read my story thought I overdid it, and that will be one of the things I change and tighten up when I get around to fixing and submitting an improved version.

I'd also like to mention something else I didn't bring up in my earlier discussion of my story, and that's having Meghan's first sexual encounter be with her counselor. I believe it was jomar and Tx Tall Tales that pointed out this is highly unethical, and therefore out of place for a story that's supposed to be lighthearted. They are right, and I have to chalk this up as another mistake I like to think I would have fixed had I not rushed to finish the story. Oh well, live and learn and all that.

One more thing, SC... kind of feeling this is a rum and coke kind of night!

 

[drteetho]

Maybe just the turning of they eye to stare at her was enough?

I don't know... I think people in that situation can be creeped out enough that their brain plays tricks on them and makes them THINK that an eyeball winked at them. In that kind of story I could even find it a plausible enough reaction.