FAWC 5: Line, Please!

[PennLady]

I wouldn't have guessed in a million years it was yours. Just because it was so loose and playful.

I do think it would have been terrific if the elements had been playing in an overarching story as well.

Well, thank you. It hadn't occurred to use the elements in the overarching story, like I said, but perhaps a reworking would change that. The more I think about it, the more I think once it's out of the FAWC context, it needs more to supportit.

I loved that story. I didn't catch where the backwards names came from, but I got Yelnats right away. Stanley Yelnats from Holes. Love it.

Actually, that "Yelnats" was Stanley, and "Nenod" was Donen, for Stanley Donen who used to work with Gene Kelly (Yllek and Eneg) on different projects. Donen also directed "Charade" with Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant, IIRC.

What I was looking for in the end was just one more comment from the writer. I thought perhaps he would break down and have that drink, just to tie it together.

Although if the stories told a bigger story too, that would have put the cherry on top, and you would have had the best story by far.

I did not think for one second that a woman wrote that story. You are very skilled, PL!

Thanks again. An overarching story, more than just the thoughts, might work as well.

To PennLady, I wouldn't have thought that was you.

I actually didn't notice that the three elements from the line weren't there all the way through. I guess because it was such a blast to read. You pretty much accomplished everything you wanted to I thought. Great as it is. I thought it actually flowed a lot better in this contest without that "written by" part you just discussed, but you may be right in reposting it with that, as out of the context of FAWC it may seem unclear. Either way it was a breath of fresh air to realize I was kind of reading a parody of the contest and the writing process as it is. Everyone can relate to that. I especially, like slyc and others, enjoyed the ridiculous names you chose to incorporate. To me it's kind of tongue in cheek to all the eyebrow raising name choices that float around in fiction all the time. Yours was pretty brilliant. I'll have to watch for that cleverness from you....

Thanks, and I'm glad the lack of the author's names worked for you. I'm also glad to do a lighter entry. This and the previous FAWC seemed heavy on the darker stories, and nothing wrong with that -- I like a darker story myself from time to time -- but I think that's the kind of thing that makes me want to write lighter stuff. And yes, I was poking a little friendly fun at everything, even me. We all need that from time to time, I think.

I loved this story! And while I had a very strong feeling that a woman wrote it, I would not have guessed you, PennLady, not that I can say why. I honestly thought pl wrote it, but she was so down on her own story that I didn't think this could be it. It was laugh out loud funny and really brilliant. I'd love to read a new version of it.

Glad it made you laugh. That was the goal. And I admit, I've never written anything like that before, so I hardly expected anyone to say, hey, PennLady wrote a funny. Thanks again.

 

[PennLady]

PS. I did read your story, big PL, and noticed the backward names (I have this weird habit of reading almost every name I see backwards to see if there is some hidden meaning) like Scorsese, Egoyan, etc. It's ironic that I totally missed the Elric reference, as I love Moorcock's work. I even named my main character in my Time Machine story after his protagonist in Behold the Man.

Well, I didn't write "Elric" backwards, so that wouldn't have helped you. I do the same thing sometimes, actually, if a name seems a little odd. It's a handy trick to plant a little clue or joke.

I haven't read "Behold the Man." I'll have to find it.

 

[sr71plt]

Well crap. Doesn't have anything to do with FAWC, of course, but I've been off watching game one of the collegiate national baseball championships. You'd think that after giving up 9 runs in the third, UVa would let me just go "oh well, there's tomorrow," and walk off. But damned if they didn't pull into within one run and were left knocking on the door, losing to Vanderbilt just by one.

 

[patientlee]

I dropped the g in Lost Agnes. Nobody criticized me for it.

Escape was a great story. You're getting better and better.

Congrats to TxTallTales and to everyone else who took part in the challenge.

This was my first FAWC and I almost didn't make the deadline (especially when I realized it was midnight CST, not PST). But I enjoyed participating and reading the honest and constructive feedback on all the stories, not just my own.

I was worried when I submitted Escape that readers would see the description and not read it (thinking it was Non/Con). I wonder if in future FAWCs we can add a line at the start of the story to categorize the entry? If so, I would have listed my story as First Time.

I was also worried that setting it in the sixties might confuse readers, so I had a brief introduction before the story started (Slyc wisely removed it as I'd unintentionally broken the only rule of the contest) setting the scene for the era the story took place in.

Thanks to everyone who read and commented on it, if I resubmit the story I'm sure it will be much better with the constructive criticism I received.

I was trying to keep it under four pages (three or less seems to be the magic number to draw readers in) and, as a result, the characters weren't as fully developed as I would have liked.

And my real goal of the story was the one little pl pointed out, to work on character voices. I was trying to write the characters with both southern and midwestern sounding voices, but they all seemed to sound southern. So I gave up and tried to focus only on Tom's voice (leaving the other ones more generic to make him stand out).

In my earlier drafts I had him dropping all of his g's (i.e. I'm goin' out) but I read somewhere that you aren't supposed to do that. So I put all of his g's back and tried to work on the cadence and rhythm of his speech instead, to obviously mixed results. I did love little pl's suggestion though and will pull out my Of Mice and Men to see how Steinbeck did it.

PS. I did read your story, big PL, and noticed the backward names (I have this weird habit of reading almost every name I see backwards to see if there is some hidden meaning) like Scorsese, Egoyan, etc. It's ironic that I totally missed the Elric reference, as I love Moorcock's work. I even named my main character in my Time Machine story after his protagonist in Behold the Man.

 

[patientlee]

The oompa loompas used to be kinky, you know.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a nightmare about that tonight.

 

[patientlee]

I didn't figure you got it from Holes, but that's how I recognized what you were doing. The character was Stanley Yelnats.

I read Holes when my oldest was an infant. I couldn't wait to read it to my kids. Except my big kids read it in school before I realized they were old enough for it. Good thing I have that Bonus Baby who can't read yet. (He struggles through those sight words.)

Well, thank you. It hadn't occurred to use the elements in the overarching story, like I said, but perhaps a reworking would change that. The more I think about it, the more I think once it's out of the FAWC context, it needs more to supportit.



Actually, that "Yelnats" was Stanley, and "Nenod" was Donen, for Stanley Donen who used to work with Gene Kelly (Yllek and Eneg) on different projects. Donen also directed "Charade" with Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant, IIRC.



Thanks again. An overarching story, more than just the thoughts, might work as well.



Thanks, and I'm glad the lack of the author's names worked for you. I'm also glad to do a lighter entry. This and the previous FAWC seemed heavy on the darker stories, and nothing wrong with that -- I like a darker story myself from time to time -- but I think that's the kind of thing that makes me want to write lighter stuff. And yes, I was poking a little friendly fun at everything, even me. We all need that from time to time, I think.



Glad it made you laugh. That was the goal. And I admit, I've never written anything like that before, so I hardly expected anyone to say, hey, PennLady wrote a funny. Thanks again.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Arranged Marriages- If you haven't read it already, don't.

Clearly, I had no idea whose story I was reading when I read and made my comments. Afterwards, patientlee told me this one was hers. I don't regret any of my comments. However, I do believe patientlee is being entirely too hard on herself and her story. Yes, I felt parts of this story felt contrived. However, I believe patientlee is missing out on remembering that she displayed true writing skill through-out the story. Personally, I hate that she's hating this story so damn much.

The same goes for any and everyone else. Putting your writing out there is scary stuff. The combinations it takes to win any contest are beyond me. I'm still proud of my first FAWC win and the number of people who guessed it was penned by a woman. In all other contests, it's turned into a "just for fun" exercise and that's fine, too.

Do we all have the writing skills of a Tx, PL, Weird Aussie Chick or <insert name here, including Pilot> - maybe, maybe not. Regardless, we'll all be subjected to the wrath of a JBJ at some point.

Write. Write often. Write for yourself. Write because you don't have a fucking choice - whether the world wants to accept your writings or not - you're a fucking writer and that's what writers do!

More importantly - PUBLISH!!!!

Literotica has its faults and weaknesses. It's not a perfect website, but who the fuck cares? Outside this bulletin board forum, Lit offers an opportunity - a way to publish YOUR work. Good, bad or otherwise. The scariest thing I know is to present something YOU did and allow the world to criticize it. Saying, "I wrote this!" will forever be the scariest three words any author can utter. Others may criticize it. Others may love or hate it. Some will laugh where laughter was never intended, but guess what? You win. You dared. You risked. You stood up and said those three scary words, "I wrote this." Hide behind a pen name. Never reveal a thing about yourself. It doesn't matter. YOU know, and that's quite enough.

So, to patientlee who apparently hates her latest FAWC effort, I have this to say to her critics: FUCK'EM!

For me, and this goes for everyone who posts on Lit or starts a blog or risks sharing something they created, you win! You dared. You risked ridicule. You may own a pussy, but you clearly are NOT a pussy. Have regrets or second thoughts if you wish, but I say, "Thank you!" Thanks for sharing. Thanks for having the intestinal fortitude to risk sharing. And fuck the critics! (Myself included.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I suppose you have me there, as I have never been a prostitute. (It's not from lack of trying, I assure you.) I did work at a drug rehab center for a couple years, however. In my experience, hookers are just like other people except they sleep with people for money. People are people. Most of what seemingly separates is merely an illusion. Perhaps your experiences are different.

TX, this is why I love you, man. Earlier in this thread, I said I had a theory about the votes; my theory was that it was your story, you have a well-deserved cult following, and you know how to affect people. Nobody on this site walks that line between accessibility and artistry like you do. Nobody. And you can say what you want, but if there is a clear-cut better writer than you in this contest, I don't know them.

You're right, this wasn't your best story, and I didn't think it was the best of the competition--I give that honor to "An Account of a Bullet". If "Of Roses and Thorns" would have been a little tighter, a little more together, I'd give it to that one. But you won walking away, because you affect people. You affect me. Have been for years. Put that ability down on the card table and nine times out of ten you're going to walk away with the pot regardless of what hand you're holding.

You are a fucking class act. Damn national treasure.

I said you write from imagination about hookers, you confirm it, then you submit nonsense about how theyre all alike. Yours is the same error Freya makes: youre clueless, and informed readers see thru it.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

I said you write from imagination about hookers, you confirm it, then you submit nonsense about how theyre all alike. Yours is the same error Freya makes: youre clueless, and informed readers see thru it.

I apologize, I wasn't clear enough; the rehab center was full of former sex workers, so I talked to quite a few of them. And you misunderstand what I mean. I'm not saying that they are all the same, but, rather, that they are all different.

 

[patientlee]

Clearly, I had no idea whose story I was reading when I read and made my comments. Afterwards, patientlee told me this one was hers. I don't regret any of my comments. However, I do believe patientlee is being entirely too hard on herself and her story. Yes, I felt parts of this story felt contrived. However, I believe patientlee is missing out on remembering that she displayed true writing skill through-out the story. Personally, I hate that she's hating this story so damn much.

The same goes for any and everyone else. Putting your writing out there is scary stuff. The combinations it takes to win any contest are beyond me. I'm still proud of my first FAWC win and the number of people who guessed it was penned by a woman. In all other contests, it's turned into a "just for fun" exercise and that's fine, too.

Do we all have the writing skills of a Tx, PL, Weird Aussie Chick or <insert name here, including Pilot> - maybe, maybe not. Regardless, we'll all be subjected to the wrath of a JBJ at some point.

Write. Write often. Write for yourself. Write because you don't have a fucking choice - whether the world wants to accept your writings or not - you're a fucking writer and that's what writers do!

More importantly - PUBLISH!!!!

Literotica has its faults and weaknesses. It's not a perfect website, but who the fuck cares? Outside this bulletin board forum, Lit offers an opportunity - a way to publish YOUR work. Good, bad or otherwise. The scariest thing I know is to present something YOU did and allow the world to criticize it. Saying, "I wrote this!" will forever be the scariest three words any author can utter. Others may criticize it. Others may love or hate it. Some will laugh where laughter was never intended, but guess what? You win. You dared. You risked. You stood up and said those three scary words, "I wrote this." Hide behind a pen name. Never reveal a thing about yourself. It doesn't matter. YOU know, and that's quite enough.

So, to patientlee who apparently hates her latest FAWC effort, I have this to say to her critics: FUCK'EM!

For me, and this goes for everyone who posts on Lit or starts a blog or risks sharing something they created, you win! You dared. You risked ridicule. You may own a pussy, but you clearly are NOT a pussy. Have regrets or second thoughts if you wish, but I say, "Thank you!" Thanks for sharing. Thanks for having the intestinal fortitude to risk sharing. And fuck the critics! (Myself included.)

I had a similar conversation with my daughter today. She started writing such a sweet story today. She had a million questions about what I was writing and who was reading it. She's 11, so the conversation included a lot of "not appropriate for children," but she was drawn to the idea of people you don't know telling you whether or not what you write is OK.

Does it make my skin crawl that the damn story didn't work? Yes. It does.

Does it make me want to crawl under a rock? Not really.

I'm comfortable with my "something new" not working. I'm disappointed, but I'm good with it. Better to have risked and tanked than to never have risked at all.

But still. If you haven't read it yet, don't waste your time. There are better stories out there. Life's too short to read that shit.

 

[slyc_willie]

I go to class and do a bang-up job on my PowerPoint presentation, and meanwhile, FAWC has exploded with activity.

I love it when that happens. I think this particular thread has had more activity than any previous FAWC thread, even if ten percent of it is Jimbo's typical jealousy-based sniper attacks that never hit a target.

I want to address a couple of things.

First: I listen to, but have a wariness about, any claims of cheating or vote manipulation. I'm not going to stand in the dark and think that even this little writing challenge could be free of cheating. I am positive that more than a few authors have felt the need to log in and high-vote their own stories, or, worse yet, low-vote someone else's. To be honest, I don't really care. I figure the selfish 5s and the vindictive 1s cancel each other out.

In the end, FAWC is only about the challenge. The real reward lies in the feedback and quality critiques that result from this exercise. That is what matters. That is what helps us improve and assess our own writing style. I don't care if you're 25 or 85; if you think you don't have anything to learn about writing, and your own writing style in particular, then you're as full of crap as a constipated elephant. Anyone who doesn't see that, in my opinion, just isn't a writer.

Second: I have thoroughly enjoyed the critiques, both before and after the Big Reveal. It isn't often you can get critical assessments from a friend and thank them for it.

Third: It really gladdens my heart (to borrow a phrase from some southern women I've known) to see how involved the participants get in these challenges. I started FAWC with a more or less "what the hell" attitude, but it's grown into something more meaningful than that. Personally, I know I've learned a thing or two about my own writing over the course of the last year since starting all this.

Fourth: Well . . . I should leave that for another post.

 

[sr71plt]

Here's a revolutionary thought. While the stories are in the Chain Story category, the voting could be turned off and we could just have a comment fest. When they are released from there, the voting could be turned out. Those who really wanted to vote could vote on them then. This would drop the "winner" aspect (we all can see the relative scores now anyway) during the "writing seminar" phase, and the authors could do whatever recasting and reediting they thought necessary before releasing them into the general file.

 

[slyc_willie]

I had a similar conversation with my daughter today. She started writing such a sweet story today. She had a million questions about what I was writing and who was reading it. She's 11, so the conversation included a lot of "not appropriate for children," but she was drawn to the idea of people you don't know telling you whether or not what you write is OK.

Does it make my skin crawl that the damn story didn't work? Yes. It does.

Does it make me want to crawl under a rock? Not really.

I'm comfortable with my "something new" not working. I'm disappointed, but I'm good with it. Better to have risked and tanked than to never have risked at all.

But still. If you haven't read it yet, don't waste your time. There are better stories out there. Life's too short to read that shit.

If you can't recognize and accept that sometimes, you write something you really wish you hadn't, then put it out there for others to read, then you're not a writer. I think there was a post by Zoot (Dr. Mabeuse) a while back on some new Litster's thread in which he said, "you're going to write crap. A lot of crap. Just accept it." Or something to that effect.

The funny thing is, we're not any better at gauging the quality of our writing than any of our readers. A while back, I made a comment to my wife that, for every song ever recorded, there is someone who considers that their favorite song of all time (this doesn't extend to anything recorded by Tiny Tim, however). The point is, even if something we write seems awful to us, that doesn't mean it is. Your interpretation of your own writing is no more valuable than that of any given reader.

However, with all that said, if you feel the need to clean it up and make it "better," by all means, do it. It's your friggin' story, after all.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I apologize, I wasn't clear enough; the rehab center was full of former sex workers, so I talked to quite a few of them. And you misunderstand what I mean. I'm not saying that they are all the same, but, rather, that they are all different.

WRITE WHAT YOU KNOW is an idea little appreciated at LIT, and rarely mastered.

 

[slyc_willie]

Here's a revolutionary thought. While the stories are in the Chain Story category, the voting could be turned off and we could just have a comment fest. When they are released from there, the voting could be turned out. Those who really wanted to vote could vote on them then. This would drop the "winner" aspect (we all can see the relative scores now anyway) during the "writing seminar" phase, and the authors could do whatever recasting and reediting they thought necessary before releasing them into the general file.

I've been toying with the idea, based on numerous comments I've seen publicly and read privately, of turning off voting altogether in future FAWCs but leaving comments on. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Doing so, of course, would mean there would no longer be any FAWC "winners." But I don't think that would be a bad thing, personally.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

I've been toying with the idea, based on numerous comments I've seen publicly and read privately, of turning off voting altogether in future FAWCs but leaving comments on. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Doing so, of course, would mean there would no longer be any FAWC "winners." But I don't think that would be a bad thing, personally.

I still like the voting, flawed that it is. Not everyone will comment, just the nature of the thing, but more will vote. This FAWC has been great for comments, but there will always be a gap between those who merely read, those who only vote, and those that comment. Voting is still the best yardstick we have to measure the "general success" of a story. Plus, I feel we would lose something dynamic. Unless you think that voting is actually hurting the discourse, I would keep it. But you are, of course, the one who does the work and the one who makes the rules.

 

[sr71plt]

this doesn't extend to anything recorded by Tiny Tim, however

Well, shit. For years (including here on the Lit. Forum) when a query has been posted on our favorite song, I've responded with "Tip Toe Through the Tulips."

 

[slyc_willie]

I still like the voting, flawed that it is. Not everyone will comment, just the nature of the thing, but more will vote. This FAWC has been great for comments, but there will always be a gap between those who merely read, those who only vote, and those that comment. Voting is still the best yardstick we have to measure the "general success" of a story. Plus, I feel we would lose something dynamic. Unless you think that voting is actually hurting the discourse, I would keep it. But you are, of course, the one who does the work and the one who makes the rules.

If I went that route, I'd feel compelled to somehow elicit the help of a bank of judges to assess every entry.

Just the idea alone is daunting . . . .

 

[slyc_willie]

Well, shit. For years (including here on the Lit. Forum) when a query has been posted on our favorite song, I've responded with "Tip Toe Through the Tulips."

Yeah, but you're a weird fish. Spotted and stripped.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

If I went that route, I'd feel compelled to somehow elicit the help of a bank of judges to assess every entry.

Just the idea alone is daunting . . . .

Indeed. I also feel that a bank of judges may only cultivate more discontent.

Regardless, I will abide by your just and merciful rule. This ain't no democracy; it's a slyctatorship!!

 

[sr71plt]

I like the "anyone can comment" aspect--both on the stories and on the forum thread--no matter what else is included.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, but you're a weird fish. Spotted and stripped.

Well, that, and I like to have quick answers ready for "I'm bored; let's be bored together" threads.

 

[Seanathon]

I've been toying with the idea, based on numerous comments I've seen publicly and read privately, of turning off voting altogether in future FAWCs but leaving comments on. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Doing so, of course, would mean there would no longer be any FAWC "winners." But I don't think that would be a bad thing, personally.

Another option could be to have voting turned off, but just before the reveal let the FAWC participants each cast an anonymous ballot (pm'd to you) for their favorite story. The person with the most votes gets the FAWC Cup.

 

[slyc_willie]

Indeed. I also feel that a bank of judges may only cultivate more discontent.

Regardless, I will abide by your just and merciful rule. This ain't no democracy; it's a slyctatorship!!

<snerk>

Aside from the mental image of Ron White losing his footing on the deck of a boat, I like the sound of that.

</snerk>

I like the "anyone can comment" aspect--both on the stories and on the forum thread--no matter what else is included.

The comments are the real deal, even if they're short and don't go into depth. At the very least, I think, FAWC does inspire more comments in a short period of time than many of us would see otherwise.

Well, that, and I like to have quick answers ready for "I'm bored; let's be bored together" threads.

There's value in the "I'm bored" threads. I like to pop into some of them once in a while just for the hell of it. Some have even given me story ideas.

Another option could be to have voting turned off, but just before the reveal let the FAWC participants each cast an anonymous ballot (pm'd to you) for their favorite story. The person with the most votes gets the FAWC Cup.

That's not a bad idea at all. I'll mull it over. Thanks.

 

[sr71plt]

There's value in the "I'm bored" threads. I like to pop into some of them once in a while just for the hell of it. Some have even given me story ideas.

Sometimes. But when I check in here and the only updated threads I see are "what are you drinking now?" and "what are you listening to now?" I want to scream.