FAWC 5: Line, Please!

[SecondCircle]

I spent 5 years researching a story I posted at LIT. Others I spent years collecting the salient facts. The facts guide the story. Otherwise readers who really know laugh at you.

Aye, things must be plausible, but nothing will be 100% accurate. That thing you said a while back about someone changing sparkplugs in a diesel? Yeah that kinda makes you say "wtf" because of its inaccuracy. Point is though, unless that truck or spark plug or even the scenario has any major bearing at all on why Tina thought the mechanic was sexy as hell, then such a thing can be forgiven.

Unless the inaccuracies are so many or so glaring that they ruin the overall idea of the story being told, I'm good with it.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Dunno how many I'll get to read, but I'm giving it my best shot. I'm kind of doing the feedback thing and leaving detailed comments (all just personal opinions). I'm not too sure how people feel about it, a few didn't really like them in F3, but I'm being as honest and supportive as possible.

I do review stories by first examining their intent and theme and all, but I also lace in its affect on me personally. I never say, "this part didn't work for me so I thought you were completely wrong". I just offer opinions on how I felt about elements in the story. Constructively, unbiased, and honestly. Isn't that what feedback is... sorta? I don't fling my preferences and recommendations on the author as some sort of standard, but rather just say "I liked this part BECAUSE, or I didn't like this part BECAUSE".

It's not mandates, not suggestions, or even advice. Just response. As an author (I guess) when I do something wrong ot something you don't like in a story, I want you to cut me open and show me why. When it's perceived as good, why was that? Tell me what was hot, what didn't make sense, what was stupid, what flowed, what it did for you, good or bad.

That is all I offer in comments. I'll just taste the chilli and say "meh, little salty" or "that's pretty fuckin good". I don't seek to show someone how to cook their own chilli.

I, for one, really like the comments you have left. I've found them a cut above, to be honest, and exactly the kind of thing I entered this contest to get. They are thoughtful and I appreciate them. At the risk of outing myself, I hope you get to review my story--for good or ill.

 

[sr71plt]

At the risk of outing myself, I hope you get to review my story--for good or ill.

What? Meaning that anyone making a matrix of clues now knows you didn't write the ones SC has commented on thus far? Wonder if anyone is obsessed enough to be doing this--although that could be a fun game, I suppose.

 

[SecondCircle]

I, for one, really like the comments you have left. I've found them a cut above, to be honest, and exactly the kind of thing I entered this contest to get. They are thoughtful and I appreciate them. At the risk of outing myself, I hope you get to review my story--for good or ill.

I wanna read every one. I've opened them all just to catch a glimpse of the subject matter and I really liked what I saw. Lotta variety.

But I can make no promises. I'm a fast reader, when I get to read. Summer is hell for me. Reading time is scarce, and there's 25 of these things. I'm excited for them and hopefully I can taste them all. I dunno if I like reading or writing more, but I like me a good FAWCing.

And along the way, I am one person that will have no fucking clue as to who wrote what. So in my case, I truly am reading anonymous stories. Which is cool cuz that's what FAWC started as, I think.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

What? Meaning that anyone making a matrix of clues now knows you didn't write the ones SC has commented on thus far? Wonder if anyone is obsessed enough to be doing this--although that could be a fun game, I suppose.

*cough* I know one *cough*

Edit: Not me, by the way. I am soooo too instinct oriented to do that.

 

[SecondCircle]

What? Meaning that anyone making a matrix of clues now knows you didn't write the ones SC has commented on thus far? Wonder if anyone is obsessed enough to be doing this--although that could be a fun game, I suppose.

That matrix wouldn't show much, that would mean it could be any of the 23 other stories I haven't read.

 

[FAWCker]

Daily update

Ten of the stories still haven't reached that magical ten-vote minimum for their scores to show on the main page. Hopefully that will change soon.

Others seem to be settling in to their scores, with a more or less obvious front-runner at this point. But we've seen that before in the past, and it quickly changed by the time the challenge was over. Anything can happen.

 

[sr71plt]

We'd probably all be surprised what a carefully constructed matrix could reveal from the discussion (and the commenting on the stories) over a week. For instance, I've already volunteered that I didn't write the Civil War one--and wouldn't have defended it as I have if I had written it.

PatientLee comes so close with prognostications that I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a result of research of the discussions--perhaps combined with known style, subject matter, and key phrases. I wouldn't get that deep in the weeds myself, though. I like to have the stories wash over me without trying to connect them to anything else, including that author.

 

[FAWCker]

Dunno how many I'll get to read, but I'm giving it my best shot. I'm kind of doing the feedback thing and leaving detailed comments (all just personal opinions). I'm not too sure how people feel about it, a few didn't really like them in F3, but I'm being as honest and supportive as possible.

I do review stories by first examining their intent and theme and all, but I also lace in its affect on me personally. I never say, "this part didn't work for me so I thought you were completely wrong". I just offer opinions on how I felt about elements in the story. Constructively, unbiased, and honestly. Isn't that what feedback is... sorta? I don't fling my preferences and recommendations on the author as some sort of standard, but rather just say "I liked this part BECAUSE, or I didn't like this part BECAUSE".

It's not mandates, not suggestions, or even advice. Just response. As an author (I guess) when I do something wrong ot something you don't like in a story, I want you to cut me open and show me why. When it's perceived as good, why was that? Tell me what was hot, what didn't make sense, what was stupid, what flowed, what it did for you, good or bad.

That is all I offer in comments. I'll just taste the chilli and say "meh, little salty" or "that's pretty fuckin good". I don't seek to show someone how to cook their own chilli.

The more critical and unapologetic the review, the better as far as I'm concerned. These are writing challenges, and part of the challenge is to learn what about our writing strikes chords with the reader. If we could get more people to comment the way you do, FAWC would really turn into good development exercises.

 

[sr71plt]

Ten of the stories still haven't reached that magical ten-vote minimum for their scores to show on the main page. Hopefully that will change soon.

Others seem to be settling in to their scores, with a more or less obvious front-runner at this point. But we've seen that before in the past, and it quickly changed by the time the challenge was over. Anything can happen.

I think a sweep will be very revealing.

Maybe need to pin down--because it almost was a factor in the last FAWC--that there has been no established minimum votes for this exercise to qualify to be the winner. Wasn't settled up front, so a one-vote story with a 5 would "win" (not that that I think that winning, given the Web site's rating system, should be all that important for this exercise).

 

[patientlee]

I'm not afraid to admit it. I take notes while I read. It's more fun than a crossword puzzle (and I do enjoy a good crossword puzzle). I also read the authors' other stories for comparison. It has nothing to do with obsession. I actually learn things about writing from analyzing what everyone else does.

(This is where my kids start calling me a nerd. I embrace that label.)

No. You may NOT borrow my notes!

ETA: Looking at discussions and comments isn't a reliable indicator, so I don't keep track of them. People lie and they comment on their own stories.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

God, the number of votes is crazy skewed. An Account and Desperate Times have double the votes of anything else.

Wow.

To the first, I think we have JBJ to thank for that one. Thank you, JBJ, for bringing attention to a fantastic story! You're the best, big guy.

On the second, strange for such a long story to get so many votes. It's virtually guaranteed the win at this point, right?

 

[sr71plt]

God, the number of votes is crazy skewed. An Account and Desperate Times have double the votes of anything else.

Wow.

To the first, I think we have JBJ to thank for that one. Thank you, JBJ, for bringing attention to a fantastic story! You're the best, big guy.

On the second, strange for such a long story to get so many votes. It's virtually guaranteed the win at this point, right?

Not really. That one had lots of votes before anyone even woke up that morning. Someone put a comment on it to that effect. We'll see what happens in the sweeps.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

God, the number of votes is crazy skewed. An Account and Desperate Times have double the votes of anything else.

Wow.

To the first, I think we have JBJ to thank for that one. Thank you, JBJ, for bringing attention to a fantastic story! You're the best, big guy.

On the second, strange for such a long story to get so many votes. It's virtually guaranteed the win at this point, right?

Anyone else got a story they want me to harpoon? Unfortunately, readers think theyre hurting me tho what theyre doing is fucking all the others. How effing dum.

It wont win once its swept.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Not really. That one had lots of votes before anyone even woke up that morning. Someone put a comment on it to that effect. We'll see what happens in the sweeps.

I have a different theory. We will see.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

God, the number of votes is crazy skewed. An Account and Desperate Times have double the votes of anything else.

Wow.

To the first, I think we have JBJ to thank for that one. Thank you, JBJ, for bringing attention to a fantastic story! You're the best, big guy.

On the second, strange for such a long story to get so many votes. It's virtually guaranteed the win at this point, right?

I had planned to fuck with PILOTs stories but I cant spot any of them in the meh mob.

 

[sr71plt]

I have a different theory. We will see.

Regardless. The jump ahead in votes (all 5s) happened before JBJ commented on it. You've put your finger on it being a glaring anomaly. I'm very interested in what the sweeps do to it, if anything--and who wrote it. I have my theories too--but you're the one who brought it up.

I haven't read it and probably won't. I'll be lucky to get to the ones no longer than three pages. Apparently those who've read it enjoyed it--most of them not enough to comment on it or favorite it, though.

 

[FAWCker]

Theories aside, a sweep will be pretty revealing. We've seen in the past how it can dramatically changes the scores. I've been reluctant to ask for one just yet because of those ten stories that haven't even hit the ten-vote mark.

As for an established minimum number of votes, I don't think anyone would object if I wanted the "winning" entry to have at least ten votes. They all should be over that minimum within a few days anyway.

 

[sr71plt]

As for an established minimum number of votes, I don't think anyone would object if I wanted the "winning" entry to have at least ten votes. They all should be over that minimum within a few days anyway.

Maybe as of the next exercise? I don't really believe in changing contest rules midstream. It sets a very bad example. It probably won't matter. But it wasn't a rule when this exercise was set.

So, yes, I'd object--just because it wasn't part of any understanding going into the contest.

(Note that last time, the first sweep cut some of the votes in half, bringing their stories below the 10-vote mark. And they weren't all above 10 at the end after the last sweep. One of mine was very hot at the end with only 8 votes left. Unfortunately, cheating on these exercises is a rampant as it is on the main contests and/or the sweeps are overly stringent and cut into legitimate voting, which, with the Web site, is also possible)

 

[FAWCker]

Maybe here on out? I don't really believe in changing contest rules midstream. It sets a very bad example. It probably won't matter. But it wasn't a rule when this exercise was set.

So, yes, I'd object--just because it wasn't part of any understanding going into the contest.

Understandable, but I doubt it will come into play. If it happens to do so, then obviously I'd have to make an executive decision.

 

[patientlee]

Here's my theory. There are many readers (in particular LW readers) who go straight to the New list before most of us wake up. On Monday the whole page was packed with F5. The story that had a 5 for the first 9 votes? I guessed that author on the third paragraph. I can't be the only one that did.

 

[sr71plt]

Understandable, but I doubt it will come into play. If it happens to do so, then obviously I'd have to make an executive decision.

I've added to my last post. If your decision was that you can change the rules midstream by executive decision, I wouldn't participate in any more of the exercises (which I realize that not many would care about). It's a matter of integrity of the exercise.

 

[FAWCker]

Maybe for future FAWCs I'll just nix the concept of it being a contest altogether and focus instead on the discussions and critiques. It's going to be quite a while before FAWC 6, though, so there's time to think about it.

 

[FAWCker]

I've added to my last post. If your decision was that you can change the rules midstream by executive decision, I wouldn't participate in any more of the exercises (which I realize that not many would care about). It's a matter of integrity of the exercise.

No, it would only be in this case and it wouldn't be an actual change to anything, just a clarification. "Winning" is secondary anyway. If a story happens to get the highest score with only six votes, then that's what happens. But if there's only one vote, I think that's where an executive decision might nix it. Might.

No need to fret about possibilities, though, until if and when it happens.

 

[sr71plt]

Here's my theory. There are many readers (in particular LW readers) who go straight to the New list before most of us wake up. On Monday the whole page was packed with F5. The story that had a 5 for the first 9 votes? I guessed that author on the third paragraph. I can't be the only one that did.

And do what? Research 25 Chain Stories category stories just knowing that one of them is a Loving Wives story? I don't see beating this to death--the sweeps may or may not be revealing--but I wasn't born tomorrow. There's only so much gullibility to invoke on this--and you possibly think that inveterate LW junky readers are more intelligent than I do.