*chuckle* Instead of more coverage, you get less. Government in a nutshell...

[mercury14]

According to the CBC...

The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4.0 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8.0 weeks).

The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while Newfoundland and Labrador residents waited longest (20.0 weeks).

You say the wait for an MRI is 77 weeks. This source says just ten, or 7.8 in the most populated province.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

an MRI isn't something routinely ordered. Should diagnostics for an acute problem wait 2 months?

 

[julybaby04]

Bullshit

How would I know?

I'm a Canadian..living in Canada.. I've never met a Canadian who has had to wait 6 months for a doctor.

Ever.

In my life.

The only time I hear about these Canadians waiting for six months is when Americans are discussing their Canadian friends

because these same Americans dont realize that Canadians can opt out of universal healthcare and pay their own way.. we even have medical insurance companies up here... of course these " Canadian friends" seem blissfully unaware of this

you're spouting meme's regurtitated on the internet

You may say what you wish.....but perhaps the person who told me was exaggerating. .......I have no idea. But this person did tell me that. They are Canadian and now live here .....This person is older.

Just because it did not happen to you, does not mean it did not happen at all. There are many things I have never experienced here, but yet others speak of them.

This is a big big world.....and the countries are large as well. None of us are able to speak with absolute certainty what happens every single day in another's life.

This person only said this as a group of "americans" were discussing this nightmare of obamacare......she shared her statement....that was it. I was only sharing what she said...period.

 

[julybaby04]

an MRI isn't something routinely ordered. Should diagnostics for an acute problem wait 2 months?

With my husband, when he first had his problem, he had 2 MRI's the first week. Within 1.5 weeks he was at a major facility having an MRI, CAT scan and then brain biopsy. From start to finish we knew within 3 weeks what he had and began treatment in week 4.

If he had waited 2 months for first MRI, he would not have lived as long as he did as he would not have had any treatment.

He was not old.....he was a very productive part of society (ie....he paid taxes... )

 

[RobDownSouth]

MRI machines are often the most profitable part of an American doctor's practice

Not surprisingly, doctors in the US have more MRI machines than any other country in the world. Back sprain? MRI. Congested head? MRI.

The MRI market in the US is so saturated right now there's virtually no wait for a machine anywhere. This, of course, gives hatemongers like Ish a talking point when he does his "but...but...CANADA!" schtick.

 

[mercury14]

With my husband, when he first had his problem, he had 2 MRI's the first week. Within 1.5 weeks he was at a major facility having an MRI, CAT scan and then brain biopsy. From start to finish we knew within 3 weeks what he had and began treatment in week 4.

If he had waited 2 months for first MRI, he would not have lived as long as he did as he would not have had any treatment.

He was not old.....he was a very productive part of society (ie....he paid taxes... )

That 7.8 week figure is the average time. Serious cases are put in the front of the line just like they are in America. Suspected brain tumors people are put ahead of the jogger who has been having nagging knee pain for a while.

 

[Sean]

That 7.8 week figure is the average time. Serious cases are put in the front of the line just like they are in America. Suspected brain tumors people are put ahead of the jogger who has been having nagging knee pain for a while.

My old man had a heart attack, he had to wait about twenty minutes for a scan. And it didn't bankrupt anyone, either.

 

[julybaby04]

That 7.8 week figure is the average time. Serious cases are put in the front of the line just like they are in America. Suspected brain tumors people are put ahead of the jogger who has been having nagging knee pain for a while.

I would imagine that is the case, seems the correct thing to do.

I will say this though.......

while my husband was dealing with this, there were many places (on the internet) where I could go for information, updates, new drug trials, etc......

In those were always boards, much like this, where people shared their own experiences with brain cancer (there were other types of cancers discussed as well, but I read the one's about brain, obviously).

Here in the US, there were many many people discussing access to the newest treatments, trials, etc. It was interesting (and sad) to hear those in the UK, especially, speak of their loved ones. Many had brought them here to the US, but some did not have the money for travel and such. If they had to have their loved one treated there, it was a range of how quickly one would be treated, or even if their loved one had access to certain chemos at all.

I will say, however, that sadly, brain cancer does not have a cure yet, and most on there knew the treatments were only to sustain the lives of their loved ones...not cure. In dealing with that type of cancer, getting treatment quickly is imperative. It was sad reading the words of family members who did not have access to those treatments.

I know, not all in the UK does this happen to. But, it obviously was happening. (I believe they have some form of Universal Healthcare).

I only share this in that whatever "perfect" healthcare system any country decides to have......there are always problems. I hope that in the fact that everyone will be forced to buy it here, that the number of people who get sick or worse does not increase because people would prefer to pay the tax/penalty instead of the more expensive insurance.

I will be interested in seeing what happens when employers pay the penalty/tax instead of having an employee covered....and that employee cannot afford to purchase it themselves. (Or if individuals choose to do the same thing....strictly because of a cost factor).

 

[julybaby04]

My old man had a heart attack, he had to wait about twenty minutes for a scan. And it didn't bankrupt anyone, either.

Hope he is better.

 

[mercury14]

I would imagine that is the case, seems the correct thing to do.

I will say this though.......

while my husband was dealing with this, there were many places (on the internet) where I could go for information, updates, new drug trials, etc......

In those were always boards, much like this, where people shared their own experiences with brain cancer (there were other types of cancers discussed as well, but I read the one's about brain, obviously).

Here in the US, there were many many people discussing access to the newest treatments, trials, etc. It was interesting (and sad) to hear those in the UK, especially, speak of their loved ones. Many had brought them here to the US, but some did not have the money for travel and such. If they had to have their loved one treated there, it was a range of how quickly one would be treated, or even if their loved one had access to certain chemos at all.

I will say, however, that sadly, brain cancer does not have a cure yet, and most on there knew the treatments were only to sustain the lives of their loved ones...not cure. In dealing with that type of cancer, getting treatment quickly is imperative. It was sad reading the words of family members who did not have access to those treatments.

I know, not all in the UK does this happen to. But, it obviously was happening. (I believe they have some form of Universal Healthcare).

And in America we have 40 million uninsured people with all kinds of medical access problems. And our insured people have access problems as well.

And Americans go to Canada and other countries because those places have better access to drugs than we do.

I only share this in that whatever "perfect" healthcare system any country decides to have......there are always problems. I hope that in the fact that everyone will be forced to buy it here, that the number of people who get sick or worse does not increase because people would prefer to pay the tax/penalty instead of the more expensive insurance.

Nobody's claiming perfection. Far from it.

I will be interested in seeing what happens when employers pay the penalty/tax instead of having an employee covered....and that employee cannot afford to purchase it themselves. (Or if individuals choose to do the same thing....strictly because of a cost factor).

Just about anyone who can afford to pay a monthly premium for employer-paid care can afford to buy a plan off an exchange with a subsidy. Earlier in this thread I ran you through the subsidy calculator based off $70k family income with four kids and found that your subsidy would exceed 50%. I think that's pretty affordable.

Also what you need to realize is that employers generallyaren't looking to scrap employee health plans and just make themselves filthy rich off of decreased employee compensation. They're looking into defined benefit plans where they pay a lump sum of money to their employee and tell them to buy their own insurance off the private market, exchange, trade group, etc.

 

[julybaby04]

And in America we have 40 million uninsured people with all kinds of medical access problems. And our insured people have access problems as well.

And Americans go to Canada and other countries because those places have better access to drugs than we do.

......then let those WITHOUT coverage have access without messing with everyone else's. I just truly do not understand, guess I never will, why all have to give up what they are happy with for the small number who does not have it (and I do wonder how many of the 40million you speak of are illegal aliens.). Let just THOSE who are not covered have a plan just for THEM!!

Nobody's claiming perfection. Far from it.



Just about anyone who can afford to pay a monthly premium for employer-paid care can afford to buy a plan off an exchange with a subsidy. Earlier in this thread I ran you through the subsidy calculator based off $70k family income with four kids and found that your subsidy would exceed 50%. I think that's pretty affordable.

Also what you need to realize is that employers generallyaren't looking to scrap employee health plans and just make themselves filthy rich off of decreased employee compensation. They're looking into defined benefit plans where they pay a lump sum of money to their employee and tell them to buy their own insurance off the private market, exchange, trade group, etc.

Say what you will, but I can tell you, personally, if my insurance costs me one dollar more than it does now (subsidy or not), I will have to make the decision on whether to purchase or just pay the fine. I pay the 6840 now. Paying 2000 in tax/fine/mandatory penalty for not going along with a loss of American Freedom.....whatever you want to call it, it will be easier to pay that and actually SAVE money than to try and find 2 or 3000 more dollars a year...when I DO NOT HAVE IT.

That is why I said, it doesn't matter how much a "obama" plan costs, or how much subsidy one gets. If the money is not there to pay for it....the money is just not there. To have been covered by insurance, and perfectly happy with it and then be faced with inability to pay for it.....so "others" can be covered......THAT is where my anger lies.

 

[mercury14]

......then let those WITHOUT coverage have access without messing with everyone else's. I just truly do not understand, guess I never will, why all have to give up what they are happy with for the small number who does not have it (and I do wonder how many of the 40million you speak of are illegal aliens.). Let just THOSE who are not covered have a plan just for THEM!!

You don't understand how insurance works. Everyone has to buy in. If people can opt out then the pool of insured people tend to be older and sicker, which means premiums skyrocket and the whole thing becomes unaffordable for everyone.

If you're talking about the government just giving low-income Americans health insurance, they do in the form of Medicaid. Folks qualify for Medicaid when they're below the federal poverty line (which is extremely poor). Obamacare increased it to 133% of the poverty line which is one of the major ways the ACA is covering people - so in a sense you're already getting what you asked for.

The problem with this though is that this is the bit of Obamacare that was ruled unconstitutional. Medicare is a state program and the Supremes said that the federal government can't make them expand the threshold to 133% even though the federal government is paying for it for the first three years and then paying for 90% of it long-term. So we have like 17 Republican-led states who are obstructing coverage for their people even though they're not paying for it.

Say what you will, but I can tell you, personally, if my insurance costs me one dollar more than it does now (subsidy or not), I will have to make the decision on whether to purchase or just pay the fine. I pay the 6840 now. Paying 2000 in tax/fine/mandatory penalty for not going along with a loss of American Freedom.....whatever you want to call it, it will be easier to pay that and actually SAVE money than to try and find 2 or 3000 more dollars a year...when I DO NOT HAVE IT.

Insurance premiums went up around 12% per year during the entire Bush administration. After going up 9% in 2011 post-Obamacare, premiums only went up 4% in 2012. We're headed in the right direction with this thing but costs are still likely to go up some amount. Given that you say you can't tolerate "one more dollar" in premiums, tell me why you want to go back to double-digit increases. I can't wait for you to answer this question.

That is why I said, it doesn't matter how much a "obama" plan costs, or how much subsidy one gets. If the money is not there to pay for it....the money is just not there. To have been covered by insurance, and perfectly happy with it and then be faced with inability to pay for it.....so "others" can be covered......THAT is where my anger lies.[/B]

If you're really that poor that the money is not there, you're probably eligible for Medicaid. And as I said, there's nothing in the Affordable Care Act that prohibits the sale of health insurance outside of an exchange. If you want to run off to Aetna or wherever and buy an individual plan you still can. Go to www.aetna.com right now and you can see that they're still there.

And there's no such thing as an "Obama plan". Where are you getting that?

 

[mercury14]

and I do wonder how many of the 40million you speak of are illegal aliens.

None of them are illegal aliens because illegal aliens are not uninsured Americans. If you want to count illegals then add another 15 million or whatever to the total (minus the tiny few who got insurance one way or another).

 

[julybaby04]

You don't understand how insurance works. Everyone has to buy in. If people can opt out then the pool of insured people tend to be older and sicker, which means premiums skyrocket and the whole thing becomes unaffordable for everyone.

If you're talking about the government just giving low-income Americans health insurance, they do in the form of Medicaid. Folks qualify for Medicaid when they're below the federal poverty line (which is extremely poor). Obamacare increased it to 133% of the poverty line which is one of the major ways the ACA is covering people - so in a sense you're already getting what you asked for.

The problem with this though is that this is the bit of Obamacare that was ruled unconstitutional. Medicare is a state program and the Supremes said that the federal government can't make them expand the threshold to 133% even though the federal government is paying for it for the first three years and then paying for 90% of it long-term. So we have like 17 Republican-led states who are obstructing coverage for their people even though they're not paying for it.



Insurance premiums went up around 12% per year during the entire Bush administration. After going up 9% in 2011 post-Obamacare, premiums only went up 4% in 2012. We're headed in the right direction with this thing but costs are still likely to go up some amount. Given that you say you can't tolerate "one more dollar" in premiums, tell me why you want to go back to double-digit increases. I can't wait for you to answer this question.



If you're really that poor that the money is not there, you're probably eligible for Medicaid. And as I said, there's nothing in the Affordable Care Act that prohibits the sale of health insurance outside of an exchange. If you want to run off to Aetna or wherever and buy an individual plan you still can. Go to www.aetna.com right now and you can see that they're still there.

And there's no such thing as an "Obama plan". Where are you getting that?

the "obama plan" is just how I refer to this non-sense now.

I truly hear what you are saying. But even in your first point....there are people who will refuse to "buy into" a plan through the exchange (no surprise, but of course my friends are conservative.....and they are saying what I am saying as well. Now when push comes to shove, it may be different....but as of now, they want not part of anything obama comes up with).

There are companies, in the news everyday, that are looking at the 30 hour work week....looking into giving their employees under that, thereby deflecting the requirement for the healthcare and not having to pay the fine.

There are also companies, like Hobby Lobby, who are against the plan as it forces to provide coverage that goes against their religious beliefs. I know, they have lost their case, but from what I have read, they just may pay the fine.

All I am saying, is that if as you say, it takes everyone in the plan to make it work....it is already doomed to fail as there will be those who just will not sign up. The government, of course, will still get their money.....which is why many who are conservative do not see this as a the govern truly caring about medical care for people, but just as another revenue source for the government. Whether that is true or not, it is hard to get past that when even the Supreme Court could only find that in taxing was it Constitutional....the mandate was not.

It will be difficult for me....but to be honest, I would rather not have insurance than take anything from this government. In the savings from not paying more in health care, then we would have money to go to another country, if need be. That would be rather difficult...but I truly just feel that strongly in opposition to Obama and the way this whole thing was shoved down our throats.....without regard to those who had no desire for it....and still do not.

I would love to be more specific with you and let you know how what you are saying about private health insurance and such is just not going to be feasible, in my case. However, I am not stupid and know better than share too many personal things on here or even in private PM's....as they can become public as well. Just rest assured, I have checked into it and to buy ANY insurance, I will have to go through an exchange. I hope there will be another option, but if not, insurance may be one thing we just do without.....even after all these years of having it and not EVER having a problem.

Thanks to this new "hope and change".....this man is making sure the changes in my life are much more for the worst.

As someone who I do listen to...and respect.......I too am very embarrassed for this country. I know you do not agree......but in the years I have lived, even with other potus I have agreed and disagreed with.....I have NEVER thought ANY of them were truly out to destroy the country. Obama is in a single class all by himself.....and he is doing EXACTLY what he wants, when he wants, and no one can stop him

Again, I know you will not agree, as you seem to support him.......but perhaps he will eventually step over a line that matters to you, then perhaps your view of him will begin to change.

Heaven help us all if it gets to that point!

 

[julybaby04]

None of them are illegal aliens because illegal aliens are not uninsured Americans. If you want to count illegals then add another 15 million or whatever to the total (minus the tiny few who got insurance one way or another).

I have no idea.....but according to accounts I have read, that may be close (the 40 million, I mean).....who knows about the illegals as they are of course, illegal.

In what I read, 253 Million (about 85%) did have health care.....so there were around 38 million who did not. That article also said that many of the 15 million COULD get care through Medicaid.....the same medicaid that you suggest I partake of.

Seems to me, it would be easier to handle the 15% than ruin 85%.

....and as far as the premiums......I have paid almost the same premium for the last 10years or so. It went up $43/mo when I got private insurance. Now it could go up $263 a month if the plan is $13000 and the "credit" is roughly $3000, then I would have to come up with $263 a month...which I will not be able to do.

 

[mercury14]

I have no idea.....but according to accounts I have read, that may be close (the 40 million, I mean).....who knows about the illegals as they are of course, illegal.

In what I read, 253 Million (about 85%) did have health care.....so there were around 38 million who did not. That article also said that many of the 15 million COULD get care through Medicaid.....the same medicaid that you suggest I partake of.

Seems to me, it would be easier to handle the 15% than ruin 85%.

....and as far as the premiums......I have paid almost the same premium for the last 10years or so. It went up $43/mo when I got private insurance. Now it could go up $263 a month if the plan is $13000 and the "credit" is roughly $3000, then I would have to come up with $263 a month...which I will not be able to do.

July you're mixed up here. There's no Obamacare plan that you're being asked to buy. If you're buying an individual plan and you like it then you fulfill the requirement to have health insurance. Even on an exchange people aren't "getting Obamacare", they're going to be buying a free market plan just like yours and then they'll get a big fat tax credit.

1) The $13,000 figure is based on a silver plan. Basically there are a few levels of coverage so the 13k will be the average for a plan with rather good benefits. And that's pretty much what a family of 4-ish costs now (between employer and employee contributions) so you're complaining about there being no change.

Now you're sitting here telling me that even after the ACA eliminated mini-med plans, that you found a private company willing to charge you only $6,800 for six people at the sky-high individual rate. And you say you're getting "very good coverage" as well. And I have to say this sounds like either an insanely good deal, an accounting error in your favor, or you're confused about something. I asked you to name your carrier so I can get a quote and take a look but you're refusing to do that. Why?

2) Illegals aren't being counted as uninsured Americans because they're not Americans. You can drop this line now.

3) It's not easier to just give free insurance to the 15% and I already told you why.

4) You can keep your current plan as long as you and your insurer agree on it. You're acting like a victim here without any reason.

 

[mercury14]

the "obama plan" is just how I refer to this non-sense now.

I truly hear what you are saying. But even in your first point....there are people who will refuse to "buy into" a plan through the exchange (no surprise, but of course my friends are conservative.....and they are saying what I am saying as well. Now when push comes to shove, it may be different....but as of now, they want not part of anything obama comes up with).

There are companies, in the news everyday, that are looking at the 30 hour work week....looking into giving their employees under that, thereby deflecting the requirement for the healthcare and not having to pay the fine.

There are also companies, like Hobby Lobby, who are against the plan as it forces to provide coverage that goes against their religious beliefs. I know, they have lost their case, but from what I have read, they just may pay the fine.

All I am saying, is that if as you say, it takes everyone in the plan to make it work....it is already doomed to fail as there will be those who just will not sign up. The government, of course, will still get their money.....which is why many who are conservative do not see this as a the govern truly caring about medical care for people, but just as another revenue source for the government. Whether that is true or not, it is hard to get past that when even the Supreme Court could only find that in taxing was it Constitutional....the mandate was not.

It will be difficult for me....but to be honest, I would rather not have insurance than take anything from this government. In the savings from not paying more in health care, then we would have money to go to another country, if need be. That would be rather difficult...but I truly just feel that strongly in opposition to Obama and the way this whole thing was shoved down our throats.....without regard to those who had no desire for it....and still do not.

I would love to be more specific with you and let you know how what you are saying about private health insurance and such is just not going to be feasible, in my case. However, I am not stupid and know better than share too many personal things on here or even in private PM's....as they can become public as well. Just rest assured, I have checked into it and to buy ANY insurance, I will have to go through an exchange. I hope there will be another option, but if not, insurance may be one thing we just do without.....even after all these years of having it and not EVER having a problem.

Thanks to this new "hope and change".....this man is making sure the changes in my life are much more for the worst.

As someone who I do listen to...and respect.......I too am very embarrassed for this country. I know you do not agree......but in the years I have lived, even with other potus I have agreed and disagreed with.....I have NEVER thought ANY of them were truly out to destroy the country. Obama is in a single class all by himself.....and he is doing EXACTLY what he wants, when he wants, and no one can stop him

Again, I know you will not agree, as you seem to support him.......but perhaps he will eventually step over a line that matters to you, then perhaps your view of him will begin to change.

Heaven help us all if it gets to that point!

- It doesn't matter if some people get pissy and refuse to get insurance. They'll pay more in taxes at the end of the year just so they can not have insurance. It's stupid. And the stupidity will pass as people get less angry. I'm sure some people got pissy when Medicare was first instituted as well. People not getting insurance doesn't "doom it to fail" in the least. In fact it increases funding for the program and increases its chances for success.

- Hobby Lobby is a corporation. Corporations don't have religious beliefs. Hobby Lobby even filed a lawsuit saying it had religious beliefs and lost twice getting up to the Supreme Court where, well the conservative judges even refused to hear their case.

- You can tell me what insurance company you have without divulging any personally-identifying information. So let's get a quote.

 

[julybaby04]

- It doesn't matter if some people get pissy and refuse to get insurance. They'll pay more in taxes at the end of the year just so they can not have insurance. It's stupid. And the stupidity will pass as people get less angry. I'm sure some people got pissy when Medicare was first instituted as well. People not getting insurance doesn't "doom it to fail" in the least. In fact it increases funding for the program and increases its chances for success.

- Hobby Lobby is a corporation. Corporations don't have religious beliefs. Hobby Lobby even filed a lawsuit saying it had religious beliefs and lost twice getting up to the Supreme Court where, well the conservative judges even refused to hear their case.

- You can tell me what insurance company you have without divulging any personally-identifying information. So let's get a quote.

The owner of a hobby lobby does have religious beliefs. I know they lost, but I would imagine either their employees will go under 30 hours, or they will pay the fine.

Insurances can be state dependent. The less personal info here, the better.

I can tell you that I did nothing special to get the rate I have. Yes, I pay higher deductible, but honestly, the rate I have is probably because we just don't go to the doctor. Other than a well child check up for each child, and one other visit to a specialist which turned out to be nothing....none of us went to the doctor last year. I don't run to the doctor every time my children get sick....I keep them home until they are better. If need be I would, but to take the time (and money) for a doctor to tell me my child has a cold or virus?...no thanks, already knew that.

Even when rates are quoted "online", they can be different when it comes down to actually buying it. Perhaps that can account for some of why you get the numbers you do on your search....or maybe the companies you use are very high. I don't know.

 

[julybaby04]

July you're mixed up here. There's no Obamacare plan that you're being asked to buy. If you're buying an individual plan and you like it then you fulfill the requirement to have health insurance. Even on an exchange people aren't "getting Obamacare", they're going to be buying a free market plan just like yours and then they'll get a big fat tax credit.

1) The $13,000 figure is based on a silver plan. Basically there are a few levels of coverage so the 13k will be the average for a plan with rather good benefits. And that's pretty much what a family of 4-ish costs now (between employer and employee contributions) so you're complaining about there being no change.

Now you're sitting here telling me that even after the ACA eliminated mini-med plans, that you found a private company willing to charge you only $6,800 for six people at the sky-high individual rate. And you say you're getting "very good coverage" as well. And I have to say this sounds like either an insanely good deal, an accounting error in your favor, or you're confused about something. I asked you to name your carrier so I can get a quote and take a look but you're refusing to do that. Why?

2) Illegals aren't being counted as uninsured Americans because they're not Americans. You can drop this line now.

3) It's not easier to just give free insurance to the 15% and I already told you why.

4) You can keep your current plan as long as you and your insurer agree on it. You're acting like a victim here without any reason.

1. I will say, if that number is for employee based plans, then yes, perhaps individual family plans will not be that much.....guess we will see. Mine is not the "best" plan with all the bells and whistles...it is second in line.

2....okie dokie

3. Not free insurance...they must pay....at least something.....

4. My gosh, everytime I disagree, I am not a victim.

 

[mercury14]

The owner of a hobby lobby does have religious beliefs. I know they lost, but I would imagine either their employees will go under 30 hours, or they will pay the fine.

Insurances can be state dependent. The less personal info here, the better.

I can tell you that I did nothing special to get the rate I have. Yes, I pay higher deductible, but honestly, the rate I have is probably because we just don't go to the doctor. Other than a well child check up for each child, and one other visit to a specialist which turned out to be nothing....none of us went to the doctor last year. I don't run to the doctor every time my children get sick....I keep them home until they are better. If need be I would, but to take the time (and money) for a doctor to tell me my child has a cold or virus?...no thanks, already knew that.

Even when rates are quoted "online", they can be different when it comes down to actually buying it. Perhaps that can account for some of why you get the numbers you do on your search....or maybe the companies you use are very high. I don't know.

If you have a high deductible plan then you don't have "very good coverage". You have affordable coverage that works for you. How many times you go to the doctor for colds has no impact on your premium.

I realize that the Hobby Lobby guy has a religion. However his company does not. His faith is not regulated however once he enters the realm of business-based insurance provision, well that's regulated. The dude's whole beef is over the Plan B contraceptive being an abortafacient which it's not. This story was just on NPR yesterday:

Morning-After Pills Don't Cause Abortion, Studies Say

by Julie Rovner
February 21, 2013 5:04 PM
All Things Considered

Plan B is one of two emergency contraceptives available in the U.S. Enlarge image

Plan B is one of two emergency contraceptives available in the U.S.
UPI/Landov

The most heated part of the fight between the Obama administration and religious groups over new rules that require most health plans to cover contraception actually has nothing to do with birth control. It has to do with abortion.

Specifically, do emergency contraceptives interfere with a fertilized egg and cause what some consider to be abortion?

"The Health and Human Services preventive services mandate forces businesses to provide the morning-after and the week-after pills in our health insurance plans," said David Green, founder and CEO of the arts and crafts chain Hobby Lobby, one of the firms suing over the requirements. "These abortion-causing drugs go against our faiths."

The morning-after pill he's referring to is sold under the brand name Plan B. The week-after pill, which actually only works for five days after unprotected sex, is called ella.

Both are classified by the Food and Drug Administration as contraceptives. Neither is the same as the abortion drug RU486, or Mifeprex. That pill isn't considered a contraceptive and isn't covered by the new insurance requirements.

The constant references to Plan B and ella as abortion-causing pills frustrates Susan Wood, a professor of health policy at George Washington University and a former assistant commissioner for women's health at the FDA.

"It is not only factually incorrect, it is downright misleading. These products are not abortifacients," she says. "And their only connection to abortion is that they can prevent the need for one."

The Hobby Lobby guy just needs to learn some basic facts.

 

[julybaby04]

If you have a high deductible plan then you don't have "very good coverage". You have affordable coverage that works for you. How many times you go to the doctor for colds has no impact on your premium.

Actually I do. My deductible is only about $500 or so more than the plan about mine...which is the best one they offer. Also, I have prescription drugs covered, co-pays for office visits, hospitals and such covered. I even have dental on my plan (included in the monthly premium. There were two more plans under mine which were even less expensive...but I like the one I chose.

I am sorry that you do not have good coverage at a less expensive rate (if you do not), but I do and am VERY happy with what I have at the rate I have.

I realize that the Hobby Lobby guy has a religion. However his company does not. His faith is not regulated however once he enters the realm of business-based insurance provision, well that's regulated. The dude's whole beef is over the Plan B contraceptive being an abortafacient which it's not. This story was just on NPR yesterday:

If the company is his, or his family's, which it seems to be, then they have every right to run it as they wish. They do not open on Sundays because they do not want their employees having to make a decision between working and worshiping. If they don't want to offer a plan that offers any form of birth control, no matter what it is, then that is their right as well....as free Americans and with the freedom of religion....and the freedom to choose.

If the government FORCES this company to offer something that it is morally against, then I have read that they will either pay the fine or go below 30 hours for their employees.

If I were them, I would go below the 30 hours and just make up the hours with a pay increase so my employees would not have to suffer, but not have to be FORCED to do something that is completely against my moral beliefs.

I will say, there were a couple of places like Hobby Lobby that I shopped at. I have now moved to Hobby Lobby exclusively. I completely support them in their stance to remain free to do business as they wish.


The Hobby Lobby guy just needs to learn some basic facts.

The Hobby Lobby guy is just trying to protect his freedom.......

 

[mercury14]

The Hobby Lobby guy is just trying to protect his freedom.......

Sorry but you're factually incorrect again. No business is free do do business as they wish. There are all kinds of rules that businesses must follow. Hundreds of them.

The Hobby Lobby guy isn't against birth control. He's against "abortion pills" because he's ignorant about what the Plan B pill is.

Hobby Lobby founder and CEO David Green told CBN News “these abortion-causing drugs go against our faith.”

But as per the medical information I showed you, the Plan B pill does not cause abortions. He's just factually wrong.

 

[kbate]

According to the CBC...



You say the wait for an MRI is 77 weeks. This source says just ten, or 7.8 in the most populated province.

Just 10? Just?


Under our horrid system here, my MRI was next day. I can't wait until we have the pleasure of 7.8 week waits for routine diagnostic tests.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Just 10? Just?


Under our horrid system here, my MRI was next day. I can't wait until we have the pleasure of 7.8 week waits for routine diagnostic tests.

Derp.
http://www.healthsystemfacts.com/Client/OHA/HSF_LP4W_LND_WebStation.nsf/resources/Resources/$file/Resources+2+mri.jpg

 

[julybaby04]

Sorry but you're factually incorrect again. No business is free do do business as they wish. There are all kinds of rules that businesses must follow. Hundreds of them.

The Hobby Lobby guy isn't against birth control. He's against "abortion pills" because he's ignorant about what the Plan B pill is.



But as per the medical information I showed you, the Plan B pill does not cause abortions. He's just factually wrong.

He may be wrong on the Plan B....but from what I read, it sounds like he does not want to have to include ANY contraception in his company's health plan.

If he has a religious reason to not include contraception, that should be allowed, in my opinion. I know the government will see it differently, but from what I was reading, it sounds like he was looking into a health plan for his employees that won't cover contraception.

....I am still at a loss as to why contraception has become a "right" and religious or moral objections seem to no longer matter.

The more I read, the more I will support the store with my money. I think what the government is doing is WAY overstepping their bounds........ and you wonder why I have no trust in this government!