Michigan, Workers must not have a choice! Vote Union

[Sean Renaud]

The exact number doesn't matter Kirk. Jen's point is that you are worth no more than a company pays you and you have no right to group negotiations. Her theory is that it's better to have 100% employment even if everybody is paid $2.50 and we have to live three families to a house with bunkbeds and coordinated sleeping so so that the half that work the day shift can sleep at night and the half that work the night shift can sleep during the day. That is the America that Jen dreams of.

 

[PoppingTom]

The exact number doesn't matter Kirk. Jen's point is that you are worth no more than a company pays you and you have no right to group negotiations. Her theory is that it's better to have 100% employment even if everybody is paid $2.50 and we have to live three families to a house with bunkbeds and coordinated sleeping so so that the half that work the day shift can sleep at night and the half that work the night shift can sleep during the day. That is the America that Jen dreams of.

...yeah, fuck the American Dream, here comes the Indian streetkid dream....

 

[chillywilly2]

...yeah, fuck the American Dream, here comes the Indian streetkid dream....

well, if they were allowed to unionize

 

[CaptainKirk]

The exact number doesn't matter Kirk. Jen's point is that you are worth no more than a company pays you and you have no right to group negotiations. Her theory is that it's better to have 100% employment even if everybody is paid $2.50 and we have to live three families to a house with bunkbeds and coordinated sleeping so so that the half that work the day shift can sleep at night and the half that work the night shift can sleep during the day. That is the America that Jen dreams of.

Oh, is this what she's after? An America that toils and suffers to make her wealthy and happy, and 'fuck all' to everyone else?

Well, in that case... ...I'm moving. Is Canada still open?

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't think Jen has any intent of being particularly wealthy. Like a lot of right wingers she doesn't believe at all in community nor does she formally recognize that much of technology makes it very possible, very easily I might add to get quite rich without enriching the community around them. Which used to be if not completely impossible at least a bit difficult.

 

[PoppingTom]

well, if they were allowed to unionize

They don't want. They're soooo happy to work 17 hours a day for a donut.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

Why cant unions thrive on their own merits? If they are truly meeting the needs of the workers they need no government mandates.

Love it or hate it, Right to Work makes unions more responsive to workers and its members.

 

[koalabear]

Why cant unions thrive on their own merits? If they are truly meeting the needs of the workers they need no government mandates.

Love it or hate it, Right to Work makes unions more responsive to workers and its members.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Why cant unions thrive on their own merits? If they are truly meeting the needs of the workers they need no government mandates.

Love it or hate it, Right to Work makes unions more responsive to workers and its members.

If they can't force you to be a member the employer can force you NOT to be a member. They cannot exist without either government mandate or employers stupid enough to allow them to exist.

 

[RjThoughts]

Will the union's go away in MI after this passes? Being in the technology side, made far more money then if I was held in the bondage of a union.

You didn't answer the question, as usual.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Why cant unions thrive on their own merits? If they are truly meeting the needs of the workers they need no government mandates.

Love it or hate it, Right to Work makes unions more responsive to workers and its members.

Like I said in another thread: this whole thing really isn't about Unions, bosses, or pay, etc. This is all just a political move more than anything, and we're the ones caught in the middle and being used as a scapegoat... again.

 

[koalabear]

Like I said in another thread: this whole thing really isn't about Unions, bosses, or pay, etc. This is all just a political move more than anything, and we're the ones caught in the middle and being used as a scapegoat... again.

It's all about the union being free to collect money from non-members and using it for political clout.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

If they can't force you to be a member the employer can force you NOT to be a member. They cannot exist without either government mandate or employers stupid enough to allow them to exist.

That is false, every state has laws protecting voluntary union membership. If they cannot survive without government coercion then they should be treated as any business and allowed to fail.

This will ensure they learn to meet the needs and demands of their members.

 

[koalabear]

Michigan passes anti-union 'right to work' measure over protests of thousands

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...r-protests-of-thousands?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

 

[RjThoughts]

NY is a "Right to Work" state, has been for a long time. There are certain unions, however, that NEED to be in existance, more because they're guilds more than unions.

If you're a craftsman, it's best to be part of the "brotherhood", you'll learn as you earn.

And BTW, the FIRST people to respond to the collapsed towers were UNION: Ironworkers, police, fire, ALL unionized!!

 

[ardee1948]

I work in an industry where "Right to Work" has no bearing, every person working on our property, must, by federal mandate, belong to a union. But, that being said, let's look at this historically.

OSHA was created for the benefit of ALL workers because the unions stood up to big business when safety was not even in the business vocabulary. The unions said that every worker should be able to work in a safe environment. They also said that that there should be a system in place for workers to report safety issues without fear of punishment, hence, the WHISTLE BLOWER LAW.

The company I work for has enjoyed record profits and paid record dividends for at least the last 40 quarters. The government will allow them to defer maintenance on their infrastructure simply by applying for a deferment. You can ask the folks in New Jersey how that worked when the vinyl chloride spill in the river put them in harms way for a second time on that same bridge. That's how government keeps big business in check.

As for protection of bad employees, there have been hundreds of employees in the last 15 years that have been terminated when they were found to be unsafe or undesirable even though they were union members.

We also required the Federal Railroad Administration to create a means to constantly monitor our proficiency and and insure that we only have people who are qualified, to operate trains in this country.
Fair labor laws and EEOC do more to keep unmotivated and unsafe employees working than the unions do.
I got my job from hard work, study and dedication, and after 24 years I finally get to spend Christmas with my family instead of working on the holidays so you can enjoy all of the products that make your life easier.

 

[koalabear]

I work in an industry where "Right to Work" has no bearing, every person working on our property, must, by federal mandate, belong to a union. But, that being said, let's look at this historically.

OSHA was created for the benefit of ALL workers because the unions stood up to big business when safety was not even in the business vocabulary. The unions said that every worker should be able to work in a safe environment. They also said that that there should be a system in place for workers to report safety issues without fear of punishment, hence, the WHISTLE BLOWER LAW.

The company I work for has enjoyed record profits and paid record dividends for at least the last 40 quarters. The government will allow them to defer maintenance on their infrastructure simply by applying for a deferment. You can ask the folks in New Jersey how that worked when the vinyl chloride spill in the river put them in harms way for a second time on that same bridge. That's how government keeps big business in check.

As for protection of bad employees, there have been hundreds of employees in the last 15 years that have been terminated when they were found to be unsafe or undesirable even though they were union members.

We also required the Federal Railroad Administration to create a means to constantly monitor our proficiency and and insure that we only have people who are qualified, to operate trains in this country.
Fair labor laws and EEOC do more to keep unmotivated and unsafe employees working than the unions do.
I got my job from hard work, study and dedication, and after 24 years I finally get to spend Christmas with my family instead of working on the holidays so you can enjoy all of the products that make your life easier.

I wouldn't use OHSA as an example, they must have permission to inspect anything. They are the joke that shows up after the accident happens.

 

[ardee1948]

Gm and Chrysler Did not pass along any savings when they laid off all of those $20.00 per hour auto workers and moved to Mexico where they got labor for $20.00 a week and had no environmental constraints. They polluted the country and shit on workers and saved millions in production cost and there crappy cars cost even more.

 

[Liar]

That is false, every state has laws protecting voluntary union membership.

Just curious. How does those laws work, roughly?

Bob and Bill applies for the same job. Bob is in the union, Bill is not. How does a law prevent this from being a factor in who the employer picks?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Just curious. How does those laws work, roughly?

Bob and Bill applies for the same job. Bob is in the union, Bill is not. How does a law prevent this from being a factor in who the employer picks?

How does Wal-Mart keep beating these laws?

 

[RjThoughts]

Just curious. How does those laws work, roughly?

Bob and Bill applies for the same job. Bob is in the union, Bill is not. How does a law prevent this from being a factor in who the employer picks?

Depends on in what industry the job is.

If it's a craft job, like plumber or a mason, I'd prefer the union, because I'd have paperwork stating how many years he's worked and how his work has been.

If it's my industry, IT, union or non doesn't matter. References can be easily checked.

 

[Liar]

Depends on in what industry the job is.

If it's a craft job, like plumber or a mason, I'd prefer the union, because I'd have paperwork stating how many years he's worked and how his work has been.

If it's my industry, IT, union or non doesn't matter. References can be easily checked.

Cool. You showed the usefulness of a union membership in some situations.

Not sure what it had to do with the question though.

 

[koalabear]

Cool. You showed the usefulness of a union membership in some situations.

Not sure what it had to do with the question though.

Not much, plus who uses the term craft job!

 

[RjThoughts]

Cool. You showed the usefulness of a union membership in some situations.

Not sure what it had to do with the question though.

It's showing that some unions, or what the GOP considers union but are really "craft guilds." There is a MAJOR difference between the two.

 

[Liar]

It's showing that some unions, or what the GOP considers union but are really "craft guilds." There is a MAJOR difference between the two.

Fair point.

But my question was how the laws that prevent an employer from discriminating against union members work.