A sign of the times

[sr71plt]

It's frustrating, I know-- I have a long historical fantasy series that features a very young man who jumps into prostitution, gets used and abused, and then regains his autonomy and grows to a wiser (and still highly sexual) adult. It doesn't belong here, but that's the way it goes.

What? Doesn't belong here? I have series after series of stories and books that can be reduced precisely to this slug--and a lot of them are available right here on Literotica.

And some of them begged to dip below 18 because they were historical and the age issue would be completely out of context there. But I've just gone with the edge. That edge pretty much is wherever I post or publish my work. The irony is that if I toned down the sex, the age would be no restriction at all in being published in the mainstream. I try to be adult and just deal with what's available to me, though.

 

[PennLady]

You remember that old redneck bumper sticker. 'Love it or leave it' Take it like it is, or leave it along. That is a poor attitude, when I think something needs fixing I let people know.

The last time you heard that battle cry of 'love it, or leave it' was back in the sixties and the battle was about civil rights.

Penn Lady, you remember who flew the flag you're flying now don't you? Bet you never thought you would be on that side .

First off Mikey, I was replying to lovecraft68, not you. For all he complains about a few rules here, and the inconsistency of their enforcement (and note I'm not debating that), he continues to post here. Seems to me if it really bothers you, you'd take your stories somewhere else.

I was born in 1970, so don't blame or credit me for what people did or said before that.

Finally, your comparison is ridiculous. This is a privately-owned and -run internet site. It is not anything to do with anybody's rights. If you want to change the rules here, fine -- discuss it with the site owners, maybe try to get some petitions going, whatever. I might even support that, depending on the particular issue being discussed. But for right now, if you want to post here, you need to follow their rules. There are other sites that are more strignent, as I said, but I don't see anyone bitching about them.

 

[lovecraft68]

So if you don't like it don't post here. Simple, isn't it? Yet you continue to post -- and bitch.

And it doesn't matter what real life is vs. the rules. This is their site, their rules, deal with it. You know what? There are plenty of other sites with more stringent rules. EroticStories allows no underage, no incest and no violence. LushStories allows incest, but no underage and are really strict about violence. They rejected my story "Facing the Past" because of a physical confrontation between a woman and her brother. Not sexual, just the brother was abusive. Other sites took bit but not Lush.

You want fewer rules, go to StoriesOnline.net. Or perhaps ASSTR, but I've never been there and have no desire to, given what I've heard about it.

What you're missing is this site has no rules. Certainly not strictly enforced anyway.

Let me put this to you, why do people drive 65 on the highway? Because there are cops ready to give you a ticket if you don't.

Rules are obeyed when they are enforced. This site says no XWZ and some of their rules are not really in the FAQ there is a link to a post by killermuffin. So this site decided to leave their so important rules to a member who tried to post and explain them.


You will not have people following rules that are not enforced. Want to stop these debates? Enforce the rules strictly and across the board.

Don't reject a story for rape when a list of hundreds of rape stories can be provided. Don't tell the OP his character can't jerk off when you have a story where a girl with budding breasts has dialogue lie, "Does daddy want his wittle girl to sit on his lap?" Does daddy want me to touch his growy thing when it gets all big?"

Really? what because "wittle girl" didn;t say. "Oh, by the way I'm 9, that story is okay?"

You people defend a person who could care less if their own rules are enforced. When I had two of mine reported you know what I did?

The next day resubmitted them as is. Both went through again and stayed until I pulled them myself.

Want no underage? Fine enforce it across the board along with rape and while you're at it, women sucking horse dicks but saying its okay because its a "centaur"

This site is filthy with "rule breaking" stories and know what? I don't care at all. When I care is when someone questions their story being the one out of 100 Laurel felt like reading. They have a right to be pissed.

But not according to you boot licks

If the site wants to talk out of both sides of thei mouths then that is what's going to happen.

Because what this is. There is no integrity of moral stance here its cya and semantics.

Don't say "she was 16" but say her undeveloped tits and have her talk like a ten year old.

There are no rape stories here, you can't use rape in a title or tag

But hey don't go away we have a "non consent section" non consent as No no no, but don't worry we're not usi8ng the word rape so its not rape.

an entire section full of people stroking to furry animals, but hey they're not real animals! Well guess what the 15 year olds here are not real either its all fiction.

These people can do what they want just have the stones to say they don't give a fuck and do whatever they feel like stop making it like they're owed something.

The writers bring them more revenue than they bring us.

You can believe this or not, I really don't care, but my sister's best friend is a detective in NYC. SVU division. They know literotica quiet well. pulled dozens and dozens of their stories off of some series rapists pc's.

Funny how even though they're called non consent the bureau has them tagged as rape.

Think they don't have all the funny little "wittle girl" stories flagged as well?"

What's lit's excuse going to be when the feds finally knock? "I was too lazy to read the stories?

Then what, you guys going to tell the police, you don't like it leave?

We'll see where the double talk lands them then.

 

[mikey2much]

Stella and Pilot, you are both right

I didn't get flamed like I was afraid I might. I was the victim of a Cloudy war party once and it left scars.

I tried to word my statements in such a way that maybe the flamers would by calmed by them, Honest discussion was what I wanted.

Stella you make some good points, but I feel that if we can write it then we should be able to call it by its name. People facing torture is a very popular in many adventure stories. It shouldn't be that hard for a porn site to deal with it. The story may very well be rejected even though it is fully explained that no harm was being done to the man. Its main theme of my story is about a man having to hurt a friend to save a stranger. The torture is sexual in nature but this is a porn site.

The title of the story is 'Wilburn's Dilemma' and the dilemma is finding where a girl is hiding, before she is found and killed. The only way, is by forcing the information out of a man.

 

[PennLady]

What you're missing is this site has no rules. Certainly not strictly enforced anyway.

Let me put this to you, why do people drive 65 on the highway? Because there are cops ready to give you a ticket if you don't.

Rules are obeyed when they are enforced. This site says no XWZ and some of their rules are not really in the FAQ there is a link to a post by killermuffin. So this site decided to leave their so important rules to a member who tried to post and explain them.

So if you have a complaint, take it to Laurel and Manu. Venting in the forums is not going to accomplish anything.

A private organization has no obligation to let you state anything you want. If you want it out there so bad, take it elsewhere or start your own site. I'm not licking any boots, this is just the way it is. They are allowed to make their own rules, and they can enforce them or not. It would be better if they did, consistently, no doubt.

It's not perfect, I'll admit, but still, ranting in the forums won't help.

But answer me this (which I know you won't): why do you keep posting here if you're so damned upset about their lack of enforcement of the rules?

Stella you make some good points, but I feel that if we can write it then we should be able to call it by its name. People facing torture is a very popular in many adventure stories. It shouldn't be that hard for a porn site to deal with it. The story may very well be rejected even though it is fully explained that no harm was being done to the man. Its main theme of my story is about a man having to hurt a friend to save a stranger. The torture is sexual in nature but this is a porn site.

The title of the story is 'Wilburn's Dilemma' and the dilemma is finding where a girl is hiding, before she is found and killed. The only way, is by forcing the information out of a man.

But they don't have to deal with it if they don't want to, and they don't want to. You are free to write about this stuff and call it whatever you like, but Lit is not obligated to give you a platform for it, no matter how popular it is.

Again, another comparison is EroticStories.com; Lit's incest section is perhaps its most popular, yet ES allows none. Are you going to complain over there if you write incest stories that they won't post them?

Also, if we're going for realism, hasn't it been pretty well-established that torture is not the most reliable method of extracting information?

 

[sr71plt]

This message is hidden because lovecraft68 is on your ignore list.

 

[sr71plt]

Also, if we're going for realism, hasn't it been pretty well-established that torture is not the most reliable method of extracting information?

At one time, yes. I worked for an organization that ranked direct theft, candy (rewards, including sex), and blackmail (usually after establishing the candy) above torture for extracting information. That may have all changed with Cheney. I had moved on by then.

I think that a clever story would use one or more methods before torture, as well. A much more interesting plotline and you wouldn't have the serial killers hanging on your story.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I didn't get flamed like I was afraid I might. I was the victim of a Cloudy war party once and it left scars.

I tried to word my statements in such a way that maybe the flamers would by calmed by them, Honest discussion was what I wanted.

Stella you make some good points, but I feel that if we can write it then we should be able to call it by its name. People facing torture is a very popular in many adventure stories. It shouldn't be that hard for a porn site to deal with it. The story may very well be rejected even though it is fully explained that no harm was being done to the man. Its main theme of my story is about a man having to hurt a friend to save a stranger. The torture is sexual in nature but this is a porn site.

The title of the story is 'Wilburn's Dilemma' and the dilemma is finding where a girl is hiding, before she is found and killed. The only way, is by forcing the information out of a man.

Let me know where you end up posting it.

 

[loquere]

This message is hidden because lovecraft68 is on your ignore list.

As Reagan said. "Here you go again."

Have the last word, get over your crush. I don't care. I'm starting to believe that you and Scour Scour are the same person

 

[Bramblethorn]

Ann Frank would not have lasted long in your neighborhood would she?'

...seriously? Did you really mean to be this offensive?

I still think that there has to be an adult involved for underage sex to be wrong, otherwise it is just a normal part of growing up.

Agreed. I think it's normal (and more important, not unhealthy) for kids to masturbate, with no adult involved.

But any story posted on Literotica has at least three adults involved: the one who wrote it, the mod who let it through, and the one who reads it. By the nature of the site, there's a presumption that the reader is there for sexual gratification. If they're getting that gratification by reading sexual material about a minor, that gets into some very problematic territory.

 

[Exquisition]

As Reagan said. "Here you go again."

Have the last word, get over your crush. I don't care. I'm starting to believe that you and Scour Scour are the same person

That's quite amusing because I reckon LandingCraft and Scouries are the same person.

 

[xelliebabex]

I know that the same old posse will come riding in to this thread to put me in my place. They are always watching and quick to jump. And they will all throw the same rock. It is their site and they can do what they want to. Sadly they seem to want to cover their own ass and go along with the government and follow the PC line as ordered.

And they all came to your party, must be pretty happy about that

.Agreed. I think it's normal (and more important, not unhealthy) for kids to masturbate, with no adult involved.

But any story posted on Literotica has at least three adults involved: the one who wrote it, the mod who let it through, and the one who reads it. By the nature of the site, there's a presumption that the reader is there for sexual gratification. If they're getting that gratification by reading sexual material about a minor, that gets into some very problematic territory.

But I have to agree with Bramblethorn, when you place a story here it becomes as much about the audience as the writer and story itself and that can be problematic.

I have had tags rejected too. May I suggest pulling out your Roget's and finding a different way to say what you want in the tag.

 

[Weird Harold]

The title of the story is 'Wilburn's Dilemma' and the dilemma is finding where a girl is hiding, before she is found and killed. The only way, is by forcing the information out of a man.

What I don't understand is why you feel you must tag your story as being ABOUT "torture." Your beef doesn't seem to be that your story was rejected, but that "torture" wasn't permitted as a tag?

Tags are for finding stories that contain the tagged activity, not for avoiding that activity. Lit doesn't doesn't want people to be able to find stories that feature "torture" as an erotic activity. Lit doesn't reject stories that contain torture as an element unless the torture is excessively graphic, gratuitous, or is that main (supposedly erotic) theme.

As described above, there is no reason for the torture to be an issue for rejection unless you were exceptionally graphic or made it into a sexual situation. In fact if I were the type of person who search for a story tagged as "torture" on an erotic site, I'd probably vote a One on your story for the bait-and-switch because there is no indication that this is part of the eroticism of your story.

 

[lovecraft68]

never fails.

Wind them up, ring the bell, watch them go.

 

[Stella_Omega]

never fails.

Wind them up, ring the bell, watch them go.

Dear heart, humans are not dogs. Humans have the ability to change their response, and Pilot has changed his.

 

[mikey2much]

I am glad that so many here seem to care

And they all came to your party, must be pretty happy about that




But I have to agree with Bramblethorn, when you place a story here it becomes as much about the audience as the writer and story itself and that can be problematic.

I have had tags rejected too. May I suggest pulling out your Roget's and finding a different way to say what you want in the tag.

You know anybody can write porn. It needs no plot, no background history, and no outcome other than the completion of the act itself I did that in my story 'Rough Play', I don't want to seem as if I'm blowing my own horn, but I want to write good stories that have sex in them. I know that since this is a porn site that most of my readers are looking for sex.t I want them to remember the sex but I also want them to know who was fucking who and why.

This is chapter three in an ongoing series about a Greand mother who finds that her grandchild has been murdered and raped after being made a sex slave. The old woman has lived off world for so long that the gravity of earth may well kill her but she is determined to go anyway. When she gets back to the moon to confront her childs killer she discovers that maybe she isn't dead. She could be wounded and hiding out from armed men looking for her in the swamps of Florida.

The first two chapters are posted in the syfy section. Torture is the main event in this one chapter.

 

[mikey2much]

Stella I can't PM you

Let me know where you end up posting it.

SOL has all three chapters

 

[Trinique_Fire]

You want fewer rules, go to StoriesOnline.net. Or perhaps ASSTR, but I've never been there and have no desire to, given what I've heard about it.

Side note...

I confirm what you're saying about ASSTR. I happened there on accident and what I read made me do this:

It's not for the faint of heart or the legal eagles.

 

[Stella_Omega]

SOL has all three chapters

Glad to hear it

 

[Bramblethorn]

You know anybody can write porn. It needs no plot, no background history, and no outcome other than the completion of the act itself I did that in my story 'Rough Play', I don't want to seem as if I'm blowing my own horn, but I want to write good stories that have sex in them. I know that since this is a porn site that most of my readers are looking for sex.t I want them to remember the sex but I also want them to know who was fucking who and why.

I can sympathise with that. I write with a similar goal: I'm interested in people, and sex is one of the things that people do, but anybody who's reading my stories just for the naughty bits is likely to get very bored. Even the sex scenes are more talk than squishy bits.

Literotica isn't a perfect fit for that type of writing, but I haven't been able to find a better option, so here I am. Unfortunately that means I have to abide by rules designed with a porn site in mind.

 

[mikey2much]

I understand the reasoning behind the rules

I have already stated that I try to follow the rules. I have never written a story where a child was used by an adult. I never intend to, it is not my thing at all.
Let me be very clear, I don't want to write anything that a child molester would get off on. I have no intention of ever writing kiddy porn.

I also want to say that the people who run this site do a very good job and it is by far the best site of its kind that I have found.

That does not mean it can't be improved.

A major improvement would be to change the underage rules enough that you could describe the natural growth process of becoming an adult sexual person.

 

[mikey2much]

One last thing

When this site was first put up it represented a new freedom of expression for so many of us. That situation has changed drastically since that time. I feel that a large percentage of the people who come to this site are over forty. I am afraid that the younger people are drawn to sites like Xhampster and others who are putting up videos. They show rapes, torture, incest and any kind of fetish you can think of.

Literotica is like The Saturday Evening Post, a great piece of work, but they are being outflanked by the video sites who are going all out to gain fans. Lit needs to be swinging for the bleachers, instead they are drawing into their shell of being politically correct. We need to expand what we offer to attract the young people. If not this site I fear, will follow down the same path that the Saturday Evening Post took.

 

[Darkniciad]

Asstr has been around far longer than Lit, with ZERO content restrictions. It couldn't stand up to still picture porn sites as far as traffic, and Lit has surpassed it by around double the traffic.

You're really reaching for a reason to expand the content with that argument. A text site is simply not going to compete with video, and expanding the content isn't going to change that. They're completely different mediums.

You may as well be saying that radio needs more reality shows to compete with television.

Lit has maintained the same competitive range for years as pictures gave way to video clips, and video clips gave way to full porn videos. It maintains a traffic rating 3-6x higher than any other story site, and is actually climbing toward 4-8x since the last time I looked.

Lit's "politically correct" content isn't hurting it in the slightest. If they would finish updating the navigation interface to the more user-friendly one appearing on new pages such as the category hubs, it will most likely rise even higher. The real thing holding Lit back is the outdated interface -- especially the two front pages that are still stuck in 1999.

There's nothing to support the argument that Lit needs to compete with video sites.

And going back to the OP, it's only the keyword that you aren't allowed to use. The content in question isn't prohibited, though there are limits.

You're not allowed to use "baby back ribs" as a keyword either. Do you think Lit has something against pork?

 

[Laurel]

What I don't understand is why you feel you must tag your story as being ABOUT "torture." Your beef doesn't seem to be that your story was rejected, but that "torture" wasn't permitted as a tag?

Tags are for finding stories that contain the tagged activity, not for avoiding that activity. Lit doesn't doesn't want people to be able to find stories that feature "torture" as an erotic activity. Lit doesn't reject stories that contain torture as an element unless the torture is excessively graphic, gratuitous, or is that main (supposedly erotic) theme.

As described above, there is no reason for the torture to be an issue for rejection unless you were exceptionally graphic or made it into a sexual situation. In fact if I were the type of person who search for a story tagged as "torture" on an erotic site, I'd probably vote a One on your story for the bait-and-switch because there is no indication that this is part of the eroticism of your story.

Well said, Weird Harold - as always.

In the 10+ years we've been around, we have never allowed stories featuring people under the age of 18 in sexual situations. And we have never allowed certain words as Story Tags, for the reasons WH stated.

Video will always be more popular than words, just like movies and TV have a bigger audience than books.

That said, people do read. Lit is currently getting over 1.2 million unique visitors a day (that's visitors, not pageviews). This is substantial increase from two years ago. And visitors steadily continue to increase every month, as do comments, votes, and submissions.

There are many story sites with more relaxed content rules than ours, and we wholeheartedly support their right to do so.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well said, Weird Harold - as always.

In the 10+ years we've been around, we have never allowed stories featuring people under the age of 18 in sexual situations. And we have never allowed certain words as Story Tags, for the reasons WH stated.

Video will always be more popular than words, just like movies and TV have a bigger audience than books.

That said, people do read. Lit is currently getting over 1.2 million unique visitors a day (that's visitors, not pageviews). This is substantial increase from two years ago. And visitors steadily continue to increase every month, as do comments, votes, and submissions.

There are many story sites with more relaxed content rules than ours, and we wholeheartedly support their right to do so.

The bold part of the quote is what you hope for and would like to stick to.

Fact is people will try to dodge the rules meaning any rule you want to enforce you have to actually try to enforce it.

You make no effort to and when stories are reported as I have in the past most of the time they remain right there.

And therein lies the problem. The site leaves the authors to try to police the site rather than the owners.

If you truly want certain material not to be here hire a proofreader.