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Socialism

So back to the topic at hand; this thread has shown pretty clearly that people who are throwing the term socialist around are either willfully ignorant, completely clueless, or just flat out lying.
 
Ishmael said:
No, no one is arguing that government doesn't have a legitimate interest, and right, to regulate specific areas. Traffic regulation happens to be one of those legitimate areas.

Ishmael
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What's the criteria for what is a legitimate area and what is not? Honest question. Is there a clear divider between what the Government should regulate and what they shouldn't, or is that a case-to-case thing?

Heh, maybe that's one for a thread of it's own. A serious discussion on that might drown in the general poo flinging that always break out, and already have here.
 
Last edited:
richard_daily said:
So back to the topic at hand; this thread has shown pretty clearly that people who are throwing the term socialist around are either willfully ignorant, completely clueless, or just flat out lying.
Click to expand...

so wrong, wrong, and just wrong. the term should be used as an example, of what not to do, have, or live
 
vrosej10 said:
Human are heirachical in nature. No matter what you do, government or not, there will always be some who attempt to gain power and control for their own means. Government to some degree regulates some of this behaviour by giving us choice about who will screw us and limits the time they can do it in. Only a fool could believe that removing government is going to get rid of this kind of thing. The only freedom any of us will ever truly have is inside our heads.
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oh, I like that. you rock
 
Just what is socialism?

March 6, 2010 in Conservatism, Dick Haines, Economy & Business, Montana, Politics, Republicans
by Pete Talbot

(Consider this an open thread.)

Lots of folks bandying around that nasty “s” word these days.

For example, according to Ward 5 Councilman Dick Haines, an updated historic preservation ordinance ” … has the unmistakable stench of socialism to me.”

Jay writes over at LiTW that the current RNC motto, written by someone who skipped Marketing 101, is: “Save the country from trending toward Socialism!”

At the recent Conservative Political Action Conference, they just couldn’t use the “s” word enough:

“The hope and change the Democrats had in mind was nothing more than a retread of the failed and discredited socialist policies that have been the enemy of freedom for centuries all over the world,” Senator Jim DeMint, of South Carolina, said.

Let’s take a look at some of those failed and discredited policies. Germany, which is a democracy and part of the world last time I checked, has universal health care, a unionized work force, a strong social safety net … it must really be in trouble (courtesy Harper’s):

For here’s a strange fact: since 2003, it’s not China but Germany, that colossus of European socialism, that has either led the world in export sales or at least been tied for first. Even as we in the United States fall more deeply into the clutches of our foreign creditors—China foremost among them—Germany has somehow managed to create a high-wage, unionized economy without shipping all its jobs abroad or creating a massive trade deficit, or any trade deficit at all.

And claims that America’s business sector is being taken over by government are a bit exaggerated, as this dandy graph illustrates (courtesy Atlantic Monthly magazine):

http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/conor_clarke/socialism%20chart.png

But I haven’t answered the headline’s question. Even the “experts” disagree — just what is socialism: planning and zoning, Social Security, Medicare, public education? Should we scrap these?

I have a feeling that the right is confusing socialism and communism, and using that confusion to scare the bejeezus out of the masses. It’s not saying that we might become another Germany (or France or Sweden). It’s saying that we’re becoming another Cuba or North Korea.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

http://4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/just-what-is-socialism/
 
Yes, and what we need is less government




IrezumiKiss said:
Just what is socialism?

March 6, 2010 in Conservatism, Dick Haines, Economy & Business, Montana, Politics, Republicans
by Pete Talbot

(Consider this an open thread.)

Lots of folks bandying around that nasty “s” word these days.

For example, according to Ward 5 Councilman Dick Haines, an updated historic preservation ordinance ” … has the unmistakable stench of socialism to me.”

Jay writes over at LiTW that the current RNC motto, written by someone who skipped Marketing 101, is: “Save the country from trending toward Socialism!”

At the recent Conservative Political Action Conference, they just couldn’t use the “s” word enough:

“The hope and change the Democrats had in mind was nothing more than a retread of the failed and discredited socialist policies that have been the enemy of freedom for centuries all over the world,” Senator Jim DeMint, of South Carolina, said.

Let’s take a look at some of those failed and discredited policies. Germany, which is a democracy and part of the world last time I checked, has universal health care, a unionized work force, a strong social safety net … it must really be in trouble (courtesy Harper’s):

For here’s a strange fact: since 2003, it’s not China but Germany, that colossus of European socialism, that has either led the world in export sales or at least been tied for first. Even as we in the United States fall more deeply into the clutches of our foreign creditors—China foremost among them—Germany has somehow managed to create a high-wage, unionized economy without shipping all its jobs abroad or creating a massive trade deficit, or any trade deficit at all.

And claims that America’s business sector is being taken over by government are a bit exaggerated, as this dandy graph illustrates (courtesy Atlantic Monthly magazine):

http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/conor_clarke/socialism%20chart.png

But I haven’t answered the headline’s question. Even the “experts” disagree — just what is socialism: planning and zoning, Social Security, Medicare, public education? Should we scrap these?

I have a feeling that the right is confusing socialism and communism, and using that confusion to scare the bejeezus out of the masses. It’s not saying that we might become another Germany (or France or Sweden). It’s saying that we’re becoming another Cuba or North Korea.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

http://4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/just-what-is-socialism/
Click to expand...
 
'
It is especially sweet to see socialism finally getting the public play it so richly deserves...
 
Let try this, remember in history book about all those nuts in Iran that wanted revolution back in the 1970’s? well they got it, and look at the mess that created? Now, what do people want? They want freedom. First we watch Egypt fall, today we see that Yemen has fallen. What about Syria? What about Iran?

More government is never a good thing


IrezumiKiss said:
Just what is socialism?

March 6, 2010 in Conservatism, Dick Haines, Economy & Business, Montana, Politics, Republicans
by Pete Talbot

(Consider this an open thread.)

Lots of folks bandying around that nasty “s” word these days.

For example, according to Ward 5 Councilman Dick Haines, an updated historic preservation ordinance ” … has the unmistakable stench of socialism to me.”

Jay writes over at LiTW that the current RNC motto, written by someone who skipped Marketing 101, is: “Save the country from trending toward Socialism!”

At the recent Conservative Political Action Conference, they just couldn’t use the “s” word enough:

“The hope and change the Democrats had in mind was nothing more than a retread of the failed and discredited socialist policies that have been the enemy of freedom for centuries all over the world,” Senator Jim DeMint, of South Carolina, said.

Let’s take a look at some of those failed and discredited policies. Germany, which is a democracy and part of the world last time I checked, has universal health care, a unionized work force, a strong social safety net … it must really be in trouble (courtesy Harper’s):

For here’s a strange fact: since 2003, it’s not China but Germany, that colossus of European socialism, that has either led the world in export sales or at least been tied for first. Even as we in the United States fall more deeply into the clutches of our foreign creditors—China foremost among them—Germany has somehow managed to create a high-wage, unionized economy without shipping all its jobs abroad or creating a massive trade deficit, or any trade deficit at all.

And claims that America’s business sector is being taken over by government are a bit exaggerated, as this dandy graph illustrates (courtesy Atlantic Monthly magazine):

http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/conor_clarke/socialism%20chart.png

But I haven’t answered the headline’s question. Even the “experts” disagree — just what is socialism: planning and zoning, Social Security, Medicare, public education? Should we scrap these?

I have a feeling that the right is confusing socialism and communism, and using that confusion to scare the bejeezus out of the masses. It’s not saying that we might become another Germany (or France or Sweden). It’s saying that we’re becoming another Cuba or North Korea.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

http://4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/just-what-is-socialism/
Click to expand...
 
IrezumiKiss said:
“The hope and change the Democrats had in mind was nothing more than a retread of the failed and discredited socialist policies that have been the enemy of freedom for centuries all over the world,” Senator Jim DeMint, of South Carolina, said.
Click to expand...

That's awesome.

The history of socialism has its origins in the French Revolution of 1789 and the changes brought about by the Industrial Revolution, although it has precedents in earlier movements and ideas. Humanism in the 16th century put forward new ideas like equality, freedom of speech and democracy, which were spread during the era of enlightenment and broke the power of the church in Europe. The Communist Manifesto was written by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in 1848 just before the Revolutions of 1848 swept Europe, expressing what they termed 'scientific socialism'. In the last third of the 19th century in Europe social democratic parties arose in Europe drawing mainly from Marxism. The Australian Labor Party was the world's first elected socialist party when the party won the 1899 Queensland state election.[1]

~wiki, History of Socialism
 
that is awesome, and we ALL will agree that the best place for socialism is in history books





Peregrinator said:
That's awesome.

The history of socialism has its origins in the French Revolution of 1789 and the changes brought about by the Industrial Revolution, although it has precedents in earlier movements and ideas. Humanism in the 16th century put forward new ideas like equality, freedom of speech and democracy, which were spread during the era of enlightenment and broke the power of the church in Europe. The Communist Manifesto was written by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in 1848 just before the Revolutions of 1848 swept Europe, expressing what they termed 'scientific socialism'. In the last third of the 19th century in Europe social democratic parties arose in Europe drawing mainly from Marxism. The Australian Labor Party was the world's first elected socialist party when the party won the 1899 Queensland state election.[1]

~wiki, History of Socialism
Click to expand...
 
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