Good Manners

[DVS]

I'm not typical, but I have a complicated relationship with food and sex. I can only let someone pay for my meal if I want to fuck them. When men pay for my food and I don't want to fuck them, it throws me. Because of this I always make it clear from the start that we're splitting the bill.



I'm good with the man orders for me after he has checked what I want. But I prefer to choose my own food. I'm not a picky eater, but ending up with a chicken salad and a fruity dessert because that's what he ~thinks~ I'd like, is a passion killer.

If I knew he'd order me scallops, a blue ribeye and a double espresso, then I'd be totally cool with it.

So, if you're splitting, there's not going to be any spreading?

 

[DVS]

Just wondering...

As a male (older), I never thought a dinner date was an automatic prelude to sex. However, I think some men did and maybe still do.

Just wondering tho; how many women ask men out to dinner and pay for it. What's their expectation?

They are probably the same ones that assume the woman is slutty and asking for it, just because she wears something sexy.

 

[where]

So, if you're splitting, there's not going to be any spreading?

If I insist on it, it's a good sign that whoever is not seeing any action. If a man steals me food... damn, that is just too fucking hot. I'll do almost anything for thieved fodder.

 

[NomadLady]

Just wondering...

As a male (older), I never thought a dinner date was an automatic prelude to sex. However, I think some men did and maybe still do.

Just wondering tho; how many women ask men out to dinner and pay for it. What's their expectation?

I have asked men out to dinner and happily paid...no expectations on my part but happily when I've hoped for a great dessert...I've usually gotten it!!

 

[DVS]

I think the most curteous thing a guy can do when on a dinner date is to thank the server when your seated or when the drinks are brought, and then tell them you will signal them when you are both ready to order.

I think giving the person I'm with the time to look over the menu and discuss what looks good, and ask if she has decided on what she would like, then let the server know we are ready to order after I have all the infomation needed to place the order. For me this is just a much cleaner solution all the way around.

I pay. Whether you are a woman or a guy. When I go with friends or to a business meeting, I pay. I can afford it, and I like to do that for anyone that goes out to eat with me. Never once has it ever crossed my mind that by me paying gives me any liberty or right.

I think if a person had a problem with me ordering or me paying, then its likely not going to work out, because if we manage to remain together I would do the same on the 1000th date as I do on the 1st. Its not so much about controlling the other person as it is doing what I like to do when I go out to eat.

Since dating is about getting to know the other person, I would hope that this is something she likes about me. Because this is who I am. its the way I carry myself. If she doesn't like that about me, it doesn't mean I am some power controlling asshole, it means we may not be compatible.

I may need your consent to get into your panties, but I don't need it to pay for your dinner. If you don't like that, then we won't be doing dinner...now shut up and eat your broccoli.

I agree that dating is for getting to know each other, but I'd wait at least a couple of dates, when I know more about her, before ordering her food. Kung Pow chicken and she's allergic to peanuts?

 

[NomadLady]

I think the most curteous thing a guy can do when on a dinner date is to thank the server when your seated or when the drinks are brought, and then tell them you will signal them when you are both ready to order.

I think giving the person I'm with the time to look over the menu and discuss what looks good, and ask if she has decided on what she would like, then let the server know we are ready to order after I have all the infomation needed to place the order. For me this is just a much cleaner solution all the way around.

I pay. Whether you are a woman or a guy. When I go with friends or to a business meeting, I pay. I can afford it, and I like to do that for anyone that goes out to eat with me. Never once has it ever crossed my mind that by me paying gives me any liberty or right.

I think if a person had a problem with me ordering or me paying, then its likely not going to work out, because if we manage to remain together I would do the same on the 1000th date as I do on the 1st. Its not so much about controlling the other person as it is doing what I like to do when I go out to eat.

Since dating is about getting to know the other person, I would hope that this is something she likes about me. Because this is who I am. its the way I carry myself. If she doesn't like that about me, it doesn't mean I am some power controlling asshole, it means we may not be compatible.

I may need your consent to get into your panties, but I don't need it to pay for your dinner. If you don't like that, then we won't be doing dinner...now shut up and eat your broccoli.

I really enjoyed your thoughts on this topic...

 

[JMohegan]

But those saying he was attempting to be a PYL before he should is also taking it a little too far, for sure, if this is a vanilla date. But, we are a world of different people, different likes and dislikes and social tastes.

Who is this "we" you're referencing here?

Some of us like to fish in the allegedly vanilla pond. That doesn't mean power & pain will be absent from our relationships; it just means we seek compatible personalities rather than official Bee Dee Ess Emm certification.

I'm like Rosco, in that I've used this sort of thing a filter, more times than I could possibly count. And I'm like RJ, in that a woman getting her panties in a twist over something like this would simply be incompatible with me on the dating front.

I do agree with you, though, that the discussion is overblown. There's no cause for drama here. If a woman took offense at something like this, I would apologize and shift into friend mode. No big deal.

 

[Keroin]

Since dating is about getting to know the other person, I would hope that this is something she likes about me. Because this is who I am. its the way I carry myself. If she doesn't like that about me, it doesn't mean I am some power controlling asshole, it means we may not be compatible.

This.

Just from the responses on this board I could tell which men here I would not be compatible with, outside of friendship (were I and they single). Doesn't make either one of us assholes, simply people who are not meant to be together.



If a man really wanted to impress me, forget dinner out, cook for me! (This is actually more about survival than manners, however )

 

[where]

If a man really wanted to impress me, forget dinner out, cook for me! (This is actually more about survival than manners, however )

absolutely. if a man feeds me, it's like a... how do you guys say it? a sho in?

 

[Keroin]

Some of us like to fish in the allegedly vanilla pond.

I hope you have a valid permit for that.

 

[Keroin]

absolutely. if a man feeds me, it's like a... how do you guys say it? a sho in?

Shoe in.

Yeah, L cooked me BBQ'd salmon on our third or fourth date together and I swooned. Yay! No more tinned beans for dinner!!!

(Also, his house was spotlessly clean! JACKPOT!)

 

[where]

Shoe in.

Yeah, L cooked me BBQ'd salmon on our third or fourth date together and I swooned. Yay! No more tinned beans for dinner!!!

(Also, his house was spotlessly clean! JACKPOT!)

after over 25 years of cooking every single fucking day, I've told both my daughters that if the guy can't cook, dump him.

 

[Keroin]

after over 25 years of cooking every single fucking day, I've told both my daughters that if the guy can't cook, dump him.

LOL. With one exception, every guy I've ever had a relationship with has been a great cook. Actually, one was a sous chef...ah, fond memories. It's kind of prerequisite, as I am culinarily challenged.

This discussion has given me an idea.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

absolutely. if a man feeds me, it's like a... how do you guys say it? a sho in?

mmmm totally. I think it is no coincidence that I love greek food and I'm with a greek... who coincidentally also makes a FANTASTIC pizza.

 

[Commedia]

I think this is really just a cultural issue, and not really a BDSM one. To some people the man ordering for the woman is a very polite and gentlemanly thing to do; to others it is incredibly rude and arrogant.

Whether or not this particular man's actions were rude or polite is entirely contextual, depending on the culture in which both of them come from.

Personally, I would never pick dinner as a first date to begin with. If I have a dinner date, I usually like to cook it myself, which would be a little intimate for a first date. That being said, I like women that don't hesitate to make their own decisions and never expect anyone else to make them; regardless of the situation. It's just a preference, and is a part of the personality type that I like.

 

[where]

mmmm totally. I think it is no coincidence that I love greek food and I'm with a greek... who coincidentally also makes a FANTASTIC pizza.

do a time share? I like greek men.

I think this is really just a cultural issue, and not really a BDSM one. To some people the man ordering for the woman is a very polite and gentlemanly thing to do; to others it is incredibly rude and arrogant.

Whether or not this particular man's actions were rude or polite is entirely contextual, depending on the culture in which both of them come from.

I think that the OP was talking about it generally, no? and whilst I think there is an expectation amongst older people that the man orders for both, I don't think that it expected that it be done without consulting the woman.

To me, ordering for the woman is slightly old-fashioned but part of a norm, but choosing and ordering for a woman is very rude unless it is part of a bdsm arrangement that the woman is complicit in.

 

[RJMasters]

I agree that dating is for getting to know each other, but I'd wait at least a couple of dates, when I know more about her, before ordering her food. Kung Pow chicken and she's allergic to peanuts?

Never would happen my friend, read two paragraphs up from the text you bolded in my earlier post. You would see that there's no way I would make a mistake like that.

Unless she told me she wanted to eat a food that she was allergic too. If that happened I pretty sure it wouldn't work out between us either...

Oh sure, it might be fun to get a dry hump off her leg while pretending to give her CPR as she is laying on the floor gasping for breath and a whole room full of strangers looked on, but after that I'm pretty sure dying on the first date is a bad omen to continue the relationship no matter how good a dry hump she was.

 

[ownedsubgal]

To me, ordering for the woman is slightly old-fashioned but part of a norm, but choosing and ordering for a woman is very rude unless it is part of a bdsm arrangement that the woman is complicit in.

bdsm...huh?? a man deciding to order my meal for me...ANY man...comes across as many different things to me...confident, considerate (in that he has actually given thought to what i should have), masculine, sexy (because i find men sexy), and many other lovely things. but bdsm? not at all. rude? not even in the same galaxy as rude.

people really are all so very different.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think if a person had a problem with me ordering or me paying, then its likely not going to work out, because if we manage to remain together I would do the same on the 1000th date as I do on the 1st. Its not so much about controlling the other person as it is doing what I like to do when I go out to eat.

Since dating is about getting to know the other person, I would hope that this is something she likes about me. Because this is who I am. its the way I carry myself. If she doesn't like that about me, it doesn't mean I am some power controlling asshole, it means we may not be compatible.

I may need your consent to get into your panties, but I don't need it to pay for your dinner. If you don't like that, then we won't be doing dinner...now shut up and eat your broccoli.

best response to this circumstance yet!

 

[where]

bdsm...huh?? a man deciding to order my meal for me...ANY man...comes across as many different things to me...confident, considerate (in that he has actually given thought to what i should have), masculine, sexy (because i find men sexy), and many other lovely things. but bdsm? not at all. rude? not even in the same galaxy as rude.

people really are all so very different.

I appreciate that you personally would have no problem with a man telling you what you are going to eat and not giving you a choice in the matter, but generally most people would find it presumptuous and rude. Not the ordering, but the removal of choice as to what you eat. which is why I qualified it and suggested that it would be different in a bdsm context and not seen as rude.

Even when cooking at home for people, it is polite to ask guests if certain foods are alright for them.

 

[sb2009]

@simonbrooke - can you tell me about the experience with gettting chewed out for holding a door open for a woman? what were the circumstances? The approx age of the woman? The venue? What was your response? I'm very curious.


One thing that sticks in my mind is a section in "The Gift of Fear" that talks about how it's ok not to be polite if that's not working. He gives an example of a woman changing her tire in a parking garage, and a man approaches to offer his assistance. The woman, doing a quick threat-assessment of the situation, decides to err on the side of caution an says "no thank you" to the man. He asks again, and again, she says "no thank you." He insists, and at this point it's recommended that polite-ness go out the window - nothing short of a rude, curt response will get the guy to move on. Is he just a nice guy who wants to help? Probably? However, considering that he doesn't respect the first "no thank you" from the woman, the only evidence she has of his behavior is that he was told "no" and continues to push. And at that point in time, she can only make a judgement call on the information she has available.

I have said "no thank you" sometimes to someone holding a door - why? well, i may not being headed through the door right that second, I may need to kneel down and tie my shoe - don't want to make the guy stand there. Or maybe I see the person I need to meet headed towards me, and want to wait for them. Or maybe the dude gives off such bad creep vibes I want to avoid him at all costs.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I appreciate that you personally would have no problem with a man telling you what you are going to eat and not giving you a choice in the matter, but generally most people would find it presumptuous and rude. Not the ordering, but the removal of choice as to what you eat. which is why I qualified it and suggested that it would be different in a bdsm context and not seen as rude.

Even when cooking at home for people, it is polite to ask guests if certain foods are alright for them.

there is no "removal of choice." say i'm out with a man outside of my Master...he doesn't know i have a shellfish allergy, and he proceeds to order a shrimp dish for me. i would be still be flattered that he would be taking it upon himself to order for me, say something like, "i'm sorry but i'm allergic to shellfish," and give him the opportunity to pick something else for me. why would that be such a big deal?

it's also particularly odd and disturbing to me that so many people are relegating everyday "vanilla" interactions to the realm of bdsm.

 

[the captians wench]

there is no "removal of choice." say i'm out with a man outside of my Master...he doesn't know i have a shellfish allergy, and he proceeds to order a shrimp dish for me. i would be still be flattered that he would be taking it upon himself to order for me, say something like, "i'm sorry but i'm allergic to shellfish," and give him the opportunity to pick something else for me. why would that be such a big deal?

it's also particularly odd and disturbing to me that so many people are relegating everyday "vanilla" interactions to the realm of bdsm.

Personally I'm with you, both on the apeal of the act and it not being directly bdsm related.

But these days it seems like any time a man does something with out first defering, then confirming, then reconfirming and finally having the woman sign off on what ever it is he's doing, then he's showing his control over the situation.

To some degree I supose it is a bit "I am man" type of thing, but no more than any "vanilla" was taught for generations before. *shrug*

 

[DVS]

Never would happen my friend, read two paragraphs up from the text you bolded in my earlier post. You would see that there's no way I would make a mistake like that.

Unless she told me she wanted to eat a food that she was allergic too. If that happened I pretty sure it wouldn't work out between us either...

Oh sure, it might be fun to get a dry hump off her leg while pretending to give her CPR as she is laying on the floor gasping for breath and a whole room full of strangers looked on, but after that I'm pretty sure dying on the first date is a bad omen to continue the relationship no matter how good a dry hump she was.

A man's man. First things first!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

do a time share? I like greek men.

In the words of many great three year olds.... "NO!! MINE!!!!" *snatches away*