What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[cebalrai]

So lemme get this straight. Conservatives come to this thread to cheer any shred of bad news for America? They're rooting for America to crash and burn in hopes that America will elect more Republicans?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I'm coming here for the "I Told You So," and to watch liberals do the usual denial of reality and proper economic theory...

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I'm coming here for the "I Told You So," and to watch liberals do the usual denial of reality and proper economic theory...

*laugh*
We're coming up on a year since the first dire warnings of the "right" Cap'n IToldYouSo.

Yet here we are, still recovering. No repeat apocalyptic crash has brought the US to it's knees despite the hopes and wishes of those who used to claim to be "Patriots".

Your opinion of economic theory seems to be as based in reality as your grasp of how sales tax percentages work. Proper economic theory in your book of course is defined as "Theories that I believe".

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

It hasn't happened yet...

It hasn't happened yet...

It hasn't happened yet...



Of course, YOU still have a job.



AND, OF COURSE, It's going to take YEARS for the Obama Policies to pay off, for that, we need patience because,

It hasn't happened yet...

It hasn't happened yet...

It hasn't happened yet...

 

[Byron In Exile]

Yet here we are, still recovering.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/byroninexile/lollercoaster.gif

Yeah, too bad FDR didn't think of that.

"The Great Recovery" would have sounded so much better...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

It's the Summer of Recovery!







__________________
If you still have a job, it was "saved." If you don't have a job, it's being "created."
A_J, the Incredulous

 

[RobDownSouth]

So lemme get this straight. Conservatives come to this thread to cheer any shred of bad news for America? They're rooting for America to crash and burn in hopes that America will elect more Republicans?

They don't care if America fails, as long as President Obama does not succeed.

 

[Wok]

They don't care if America fails, as long as President Obama does not succeed.

That's a good plan as any. Once Palin is President, then the real recovery begins.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/byroninexile/lollercoaster.gif

Yeah, too bad FDR didn't think of that.

"The Great Recovery" would have sounded so much better...

Now there's a comparison that has no basis in reality. Bravo!

 

[RightField]

They don't care if America fails, as long as President Obama does not succeed.

We're the patriotic group, remember. We want America to succeed and cheer any plans or programs that help us move in that direction regardless of the source. Most of us, independents included, would gladly cheer an economic approach that brought us improved prospects of prosperity and growth. The "hope and change" mantra was mezmorizing for many who really wanted to believe it and it gathered quite a few votes. What we got instead was old decredited Marxist bromides and a floundering economy while the backroom Chicago politics of self-interest and greed rule the day (and the night).

This is not the direction we want to go and we're not so shy that we sit quietly wringing our hands and fingers hoping that it will magically work out and things will get better. No, there's an election coming up and in the grand tradition of honest and legitmate politics, we're supporting the other party who promise a better direction for the country.

If Obama comes up with a reduction in the business tax and a significant reduction in spending, we'll support his efforts and even cheer him on. If he decided to repeal the healthcare bill in its entirety and start over, we'd cheer. We are patriots, we want what's best for the country and what looks best for the country is a new set of politicians that will put us back on the path to growth. Of course, the disasters of the last couple years will take two or three years to undo, but we're willing to make the change.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Just let me put my 2 cents in here...

What made America an economic powerhouse was its natural resources, its manufacturing capacity and its consumers. Other countries were scrambling for American products, and access to the American consumer.

Our natural resources are being overshadowed by discoveries in other parts of the world. Our manufacturing base has moved to countries with cheap labor and fewer regulations, and we have lost our consumersim for a generation. America will stay strong militarily, but we will be on par with many other countries as far as economic strength.

The most important factor in our economy is the willingness of Americans to spend money - most times, money they don't have. Those days are gone for a long time because Americans will spend the rest of this generation climbing out of debt and will be unwilling to take on new debt because of the shock to the system they've experienced in the past two years.

The cause of the recession is irrelevant, and whatever party controls congress is irrelevant. Neither can change the attitude of the American consumer. We are part of a global economy now and as other countries increase their standard of living, the American standard of living will decrease.

A good indicator in the next few years will be the average new home size. Builders will start to build smaller homes as people realize they don't need 4,000 square feet. With smaller homes will come reduced spending on the things needed to maintain a home of that size. Instead of two $40,000 cars, they will buy used cars or two $30,000 cars.

I see sovereign debt as a wash because other consumer nations are as in as bad a shape as we are. That will hurt producer countries like China and India. Growth world-wide will shrink to a more sustainable level but the poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer.

As this generation recovers, the next one will prosper. It will take 40 to 50 years to get sovereign debt under control. It will take 10 to 20 years to get American personal debt under control.

 

[RightField]

I generally agree, but there are a couple more elements that are important.

First, we have more innovative people who are more willing to take risks than in many other parts of the world. If our government doesn't put "risk" into a regulatory straightjacket or eliminate the rewards that are one of the motivating factors in deciding to undertake risk, we have the potential for more growth than other countries.

Second, buried under the current culture is our frontier spirit that is founded in a belief that we can "reach for the stars" and change our situation. Our census reports show that people here readily transition from poor to middle to rich (and the other way around too)...our society isn't a fixed caste system where only a few select people actually have opportunity. This broad-based access to wealth also engenders creativity and a strong work ethic across a broad swath of the population. This means that we have many more motivated people and this broad-based motivation is a trait not shared by many other countries. We have resisted the siren song of the "blue beast" (see other thread) and made "the American Dream" accessable to all in our population who have the desire to pursue it.

Third, we tend to work more hours and dedicate ourselves to the pursuit of personal satisfaction...which sometimes takes the shape of weath and riches. Americans are hard-working as well as creative and it often shows in the economic growth numbers that we rather consistently put up.

I want to see a government that supports these values and doens't suppress them. I think the current administration with their "spread the wealth" approach doesn't see value in capital formation or the need to support innovation with the associated risk/reward calculations. I think they see success as a roll of the dice and therefore the associated wealth that comes with it an unearned windfall that needs to be taken and "redistrubuted". The healthcare bill is another case where they have legislated profit away and redistributed it and have taken away some (not all) of the incentive around medical product and services innovation. I think our chances of growth and prosperity are much better with a different administration.

The need for servicing debt is important and I agree completely with you on that point. It will be a long slow trail back to growth and prosperity, but we have to change course first because we're going in the opposite direction now. I believe that given a healthy environment that doesn't stand in the way of growth, that the creativity and energy of the American people will give us a chance to reassert ourselves as an economic powerhouse and lead back to a path of growth a little more quickly than your predictions.

 

[Beco]

That's a good plan as any. Once Palin is President, then the real recovery begins.

I will post a naked photo of me on here, then beg Laural to delete my account if that event happens. That is, President Palin.

NEVER! NO WAY! (you heard it here first folks)

 

[unregistered]

 

[mercury14]

If Obama comes up with a reduction in the business tax and a significant reduction in spending, we'll support his efforts and even cheer him on. If he decided to repeal the healthcare bill in its entirety and start over, we'd cheer. We are patriots, we want what's best for the country and what looks best for the country is a new set of politicians that will put us back on the path to growth. Of course, the disasters of the last couple years will take two or three years to undo, but we're willing to make the change.

Every time a consevative advocates for "spending cuts" without specifying any meaningful cuts, an angel loses its wings.

Every time a consevative adocates for repealing healthcare reform and throwing America back to the coverage crisis a kitten dies.

Every time a consevative advocates for lower taxes AND a smaller deficit, baby Jesus cries.

 

[mercury14]

The healthcare bill is another case where they have legislated profit away and redistributed it and have taken away some (not all) of the incentive around medical product and services innovation. I think our chances of growth and prosperity are much better with a different administration.

Why deny the fact that lack of healthcare coverage is a huge factor in Americans transitioning from a position of wealth to one of poverty? And that this problem has been worsening at an exponential rate? And that the republican plan to address the coverage crisis was basically a joke?

Until you acknowledge this plain fact you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[mercury14]

Just sayin'...


By STEPHEN BERNARD, AP Business Writer Stephen Bernard, Ap Business Writer – 1 min ago

NEW YORK – The stock market began August with a huge rally after reports from around the world revived investors' faith in the global recovery.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose 208 points Monday to its highest close in three months. All the major stock indexes rose about 2 percent.

The first day of the month brought a stream of news that reassured investors who have worried about a slowing of economic growth in the U.S., China and Europe. Manufacturing was a common thread:

• The Institute for Supply Management's index of U.S. manufacturing activity during July was better than the market expected. Factory activity has now been expanding for a full year, one of the brightest spots in the U.S. economy.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

We already presage the rise of the stock market and I'll wager you haven't a clue as to why...

A marvelous thing happened over on Paul Krugman's blog at the New York Times last week. Krugman effectively conceded defeat on a range of economic debates. Who defeated him? People who posted comments on his New York Times blog. Mere commenters.

For those who do not know, Paul Krugman is one of the few who still claim that Keynesian progressivism is the answer to America's (and Europe's) problems, not their cause. He repeats that claim many times each month. Amid these repeated expressions of his "progressive" faith, he now also repeatedly expresses grim despair because his progressive policy prescriptions are being accepted less and less in the public square, even by the Obama administration.

Krugman is an academic. He has never run a company. He has never created a job. The closest contact he evidently ever had to "business" was as an adviser to Enron, where (in his own words) he was paid $50,000 to help build Enron's "image."

This, perhaps, explains the dozen or so points that Krugman makes over and over. Here are a few: Obama's stimulus was too small. Debt is good. Austerity is bad. Deflation is coming. Ken Rogoff, Greg Mankiw, Alberto Alesina (all at Harvard), and other serious economic scientists do not understand economics as well as he does. Those who do not agree with him are "mass delusional." And perhaps Krugman's favorite line: "I was right, of course."

Befitting his ideology, Krugman has only one policy to propose, regardless of topic: Transfer more resources from the discipline and dynamism of markets to the inefficiency and cronyism of government.

Government-run health care. Government-controlled banks. Government bailouts. High taxes. High spending. Krugman wants it all, just like in Europe (which, in 2008, he called "the comeback continent"). And Krugman has no problems denying economic science and current events to advocate it.

With the meltdown in Europe so obviously the consequence of too much Krugmanism and U.S. unemployment near 10% after a trillion dollars in stimulus, Krugman has attracted some criticism.

Fred Douglass
The American Thinker

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Krugman had also had enough. On July 23, Krugman showed that he was clearly no longer "in love" with his commenters. Now he called them "ranters" and "trolls." On July 28, Krugman changed his comment moderation policy. Claiming that "ranters ... say the same thing every time," Krugman announced that he was going to throw away posts longer than "three inches." His thinking must have been thus: Three inches are sufficient to write "Krugman is brilliant," but not sufficient to present a documented and persuasive rebuttal to whichever of Krugman's standard arguments he was peddling that day.

Gee that sounds familiar. I wonder if he accused them of wishing for bad things for America?

 

[unregistered]

 

[koalabear]

Consumer spending stalls, threatens recovery
Factory orders drop, home sales show more signs of slowing

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38535803/ns/business-stocks_and_economy

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Is UD in his office today?



Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner: Unemployment Could Go Up Before It Comes Down
Unemployment Could Rise 'Temporarily' As More People Enter Labor Force

By KATE McCARTHY and RICH McHUGH
August 3, 2010

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/treasury-secretary-timothy-geithner-unemployment/story?id=11308157

From your link:

"But what we expect to see, and I think most forecasters expect this…is an economy that's gradually healing, gradually strengthening, businesses starting to add people back." - Tim Geither

Last week's economic report card showed the Gross Domestic Product grew at a rate of 2.4 percent, slower than it had earlier this year.

From -6% to 2.4% growth, down from 3.7% in the first quarter.

Slow and steady wins the race Mr. Hare. Only a few people expected and demanded an "instant recovery".. Most of them have been chanting "Nobama!" since President Obama took office.

 

[Beco]

Consumer spending stalls, threatens recovery
Factory orders drop, home sales show more signs of slowing

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38535803/ns/business-stocks_and_economy

good times....

 

[unregistered]

 

[RightField]

From your link:

"But what we expect to see, and I think most forecasters expect this…is an economy that's gradually healing, gradually strengthening, businesses starting to add people back." - Tim Geither

Last week's economic report card showed the Gross Domestic Product grew at a rate of 2.4 percent, slower than it had earlier this year.

From -6% to 2.4% growth, down from 3.7% in the first quarter.

Slow and steady wins the race Mr. Hare. Only a few people expected and demanded an "instant recovery".. Most of them have been chanting "Nobama!" since President Obama took office.

I hope it does bounce back quickly. There are many millions who are having a difficult time meeting mortgages and disparing of the future. Based on the policies of this administration, I'm skeptical of having a strong recovery. They seem to be skeptical too with their efforts to drop expectations. In either case, good luck to those who are looking for work, I hope something pops up.