Some questions for Republicans

[jeninflorida]

oh you are so correct, and I forgot about Rush, this is when he made it to the big time (under Clinton - oh I have a bad pun).

But the question was never if he was a dishonest person, but why do people call him the worst president ever.

As a president, I don't think he was particularly dishonest.

Do you figure that letting Bin Laden get away is what makes him a bad president?

Mmm... maybe? Or maybe that was when it became perfectly obvious, I don't know. Gingrich really cultivated a balls-out style of rhetoric, and encouraged others to follow suit, and hate breeds hate-- hate televised breeds hate in the land of two-car garages.

 

[bronzeage]

I don’t understand why most American’s want to lean more to socialism. We are modeling our healthcare after in my opinion 2nd rate nations.

Because the healthcare we have now is 3rd rate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Because the healthcare we have now is 3rd rate.

And that happened under capitalism. Capitalism hasn't fixed the problem, we try something else.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JIF

There are several issues with healthcare that were fixable without ruining the economy. Indigent care was fixable with a simple 1% sales tax; this also fixed health care between jobs or thru unemployment or family leave or whatever.

Insurers need to pool all risk groups together rather than segregate them by age & pre existing conditions. A simple law can do it.

As it is ObamaCare is destined to fail for about 3 excellent Constitutional issues.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And that happened under capitalism. Capitalism hasn't fixed the problem, we try something else.

It isnt capitalisms job to comfort the afflicted, the widow and the orphan.

 

[jeninflorida]

Because the healthcare we have now is 3rd rate.

well, varies where you fall in the economic food chain....then this becomes a war of the have and have nots....

maybe they will fix some of the big issues

 

[rgraham666]

I don’t understand why most American’s want to lean more to socialism. We are modeling our healthcare after in my opinion 2nd rate nations.

Ahem.

I may question the politics of America but I would never refer to it as second rate.

I'll thank you to extend the same courtesy to my country, thank you very much.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What countries do you consider second rate, jen, and why?

 

[sadangel]

Ahem.

I may question the politics of America but I would never refer to it as second rate.

I'll thank you to extend the same courtesy to my country, thank you very much.

*hugs* Trust me, Sir, Canada is NOT second rate. Some people open mouth and insert foot on a regular basis.

What countries do you consider second rate, jen, and why?

I'd love to know the answer to this also. Seems there are some countries that the USA could learn a thing or two from. The answer to this question of yours should prove at the least entertaining and at the most informative.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Canada is a 3rd world white ghetto.

 

[DeeZire]

Hi Jeninflorida. I still have you on ignore, but I'd like to address this statement that was quoted above:

Originally Posted by jeninflorida
I don’t understand why most American’s want to lean more to socialism.

Imagine a head of household who has a choice of either paying rent or paying for health insurance. In other words, if they pay for their health insurance, they'll get kicked out of their home. If they choose to not pay for health insurance but instead, keep a place to live, and they have a medical emergency, they'll end up losing their home because of the financial repurcussions.

Now, is it easier for you to understand why so many Americans are in favor of a public option for health care?

Free market capitalism is an ideal that, in practice, doesn't work very well. For those like you in the upper income brackets, free market capitalism might work great. For the working poor who are spending over half their income on health insurance, free market capitalism is a form of slavery, impinging on their individual freedoms to the point that the lofty ideal of self determination is nothing but a joke.

 

[jeninflorida]

Ahem.

I may question the politics of America but I would never refer to it as second rate.

I'll thank you to extend the same courtesy to my country, thank you very much.

sorry, I am overstating....my main point is that we are moving to bigger governments and our tax rates will be jumping up to match others. and why do we need to do that? we need to fix the machine, and not dump more money in...I believe what we are doing is using a lighter to light a one hundred dollar bill, then using that lit bill to light up or cigar...why not skip the process of burning the one hundred dollar bill and use the lighter?

Or am I the only person on earth that believe government is wasteful (employee production, and cash to operate)?

 

[jeninflorida]

I fully understand your point, and feel that no family should have to make that choice....but I still say that we are shoveling money into the furnace to heat up one room and when we expand this to the whole house, we will need more cash to burn.

Hi Jeninflorida. I still have you on ignore, but I'd like to address this statement that was quoted above:



Imagine a head of household who has a choice of either paying rent or paying for health insurance. In other words, if they pay for their health insurance, they'll get kicked out of their home. If they choose to not pay for health insurance but instead, keep a place to live, and they have a medical emergency, they'll end up losing their home because of the financial repurcussions.

Now, is it easier for you to understand why so many Americans are in favor of a public option for health care?

Free market capitalism is an ideal that, in practice, doesn't work very well. For those like you in the upper income brackets, free market capitalism might work great. For the working poor who are spending over half their income on health insurance, free market capitalism is a form of slavery, impinging on their individual freedoms to the point that the lofty ideal of self determination is nothing but a joke.

 

[trysail]

Mr. Beirce put it quite nicely.

Democracy is a form of government where it is generally accepted that the people are entitled to steal from others so that they may purchase that for which they are unwilling to save or cannot otherwise afford. It is only in a democracy that masses of people can be persuaded into believing that raiding government coffers provides a benefit to society.

 

[stephen55]

You callin' me second rate...you talkin' to me....??

I don’t understand why most American’s want to lean more to socialism. We are modeling our healthcare after in my opinion 2nd rate nations.

I don't think most Americans want to lean more to socialism. Canadians never have and likely never will.

Like amicus, I think you're confusing an effective Federal government with socialism. I think you're confusing getting things done so as to take care of business with minimum fuss and aggravation, with socialism. I think you're confusing the idea that some things like decisions on military intervention and control of the nuclear weapons stockpile are perhaps best kept out of the hands of free enterprise private corporations... with socialism.

Canadians wanted an effective, cost effective health care system and got it. It was the result of discussion followed by a democratic vote in a democratic country. Any time Canadians feel like getting rid of it, the ballot box is just around the corner.

If Americans stop confusing (and conflating) the idea that health care for all is actually a good idea and can be achieved by reasonable steps to smooth out inequities and by focusing on the solution, not the blockades that exist now....stop equating all of that to socialism...then maybe you could be better off and save a few bucks. A better service at a better price...sounds very capitalistic to me. The reason American Health Insurance companies (all four hundred of them, I'm told) don't have offices in Canada is because they can't compete. Their products are of poor value and higher price. The Canada Health Act does not deny private health companies in Canada. It stipulates what provincial governments must do in providing health care in order to receive federal money.

Canada has a publicly funded medicare system. What most Americans don't realize is that most services are provided by the private sector. Like nearly all doctors in Canada, I was in private practice. I was self employed. The provincial government in my neck of the woods simply ran a better, tighter ship, providing far better care at less cost than any US plan, including your 'Cadillac' plan. People in these parts like it that way. We're no more socialist than you.

And...ahem...that second rate nation comment....The United Nations (one of your ideas I recall) has consistently placed Canada at the top of it's list of best places to live. For some reason that escapes me at the moment, socialism is never mentioned as one of their reasons in giving Canada this distinction. A politically stable, parliamentary democracy, always is mentioned.

 

[bronzeage]

well, varies where you fall in the economic food chain....then this becomes a war of the have and have nots....

maybe they will fix some of the big issues

It is at that point now. That is why we are having this fight.

 

[stephen55]

Sorry...using white didn't work....

A Constitutional Republic is a form of government where it is generally accepted that the people are entitled to steal from others so that they may purchase that for which they are unwilling to save or cannot otherwise afford. It is only in a Constitutional Republic that masses of people can be persuaded into believing that raiding government coffers provides a benefit to society.



Are you sure you got your quotation right? I don't think you did.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I fully understand your point, and feel that no family should have to make that choice....but I still say that we are shoveling money into the furnace to heat up one room and when we expand this to the whole house, we will need more cash to burn.

I do not understand your metaphor at all.

But I can tell you that my family does have to make that choice. And what you are saying, if I understand you, is that I must stay in the cold part of the house because your part is burning all the coal, and that's just the way it goes.

Or do I have something wrong?

And i would like top know which nations are second rate in your opinion, and why.

What I think I understand ,is that you do not believe or expect that any government can handle the needs of a nation effectively. That, for it to even attempt such a thing, would take a bazillionty-percent tax on its citizens.

But, we can see a number of countries that have done a very good job of nationalising crucial services. And although the taxes seem higher, the percapita cost is significantly lower for the consumers.

 

[stephen55]

Canada is a 3rd world white ghetto.

Hot Damnn!!
Us Canucks finally have somethin' in common with Tampa Bay, Florida.

 

[jeninflorida]

This is a big jump, but lets all take a step out of the sandbox.

Dee and Rgrahamm666 (is it Robb) lets use your example of GE. If GE wakes up and realizes that they are short 2 billion in sales, and that will hit the bottom line with a 1 billion dollar loss, GE will not go out and jack prices up but will look for ways to cut costs.

So lets say that a government finds that they can trim fat out of the budget, enough to cover the cost of healthcare and that no one needs to be taxed. Would anyone support that?

Ahem.

I may question the politics of America but I would never refer to it as second rate.

I'll thank you to extend the same courtesy to my country, thank you very much.

 

[jeninflorida]

It is at that point now. That is why we are having this fight.

no, healthcare needs to be fixed. no question. but with what a few of the trolls pm'd me, its like they demand and expect free health care and that someone else must pay for it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This is a big jump, but lets all take a step out of the sandbox.

Dee and Rgrahamm666 (is it Robb) lets use your example of GE. If GE wakes up and realizes that they are short 2 billion in sales, and that will hit the bottom line with a 1 billion dollar loss, GE will not go out and jack prices up but will look for ways to cut costs.

And where will they cut costs, in your opinion?

So lets say that a government finds that they can trim fat out of the budget, enough to cover the cost of healthcare and that no one needs to be taxed. Would anyone support that?

definitely.

no, healthcare needs to be fixed. no question. but with what a few of the trolls pm'd me, its like they demand and expect free health care and that someone else must pay for it.

what else do you expect from trolls?

 

[jeninflorida]

What countries do you consider second rate, jen, and why?

on many level no countries are second rate, and as a culture and society America does have a lot to learn (I would put France above the us when it comes to the arts and other parts of culture). Now on a business level then I would rate France as a 2nd rate country....purely on an economics standing I would rate Greece as a third world nation (as the government is teetering on chapter 13).

With that said, when it comes to taxes I would rate just about every other country as a 2nd rate nation. Tax rates are too high and for what? The taxes support a very inefficient and multi layers of bureaucracy. I think layovers of bureaucracy need to be pulled back and put an end to a movement of increased taxes. Governments tax too much and never try to fix their own operations.

Just today the IRS announced that they are hiring 15,000 new workers. That’s nuts! Why not make the irs rules simpler and automated? Oh (a government rub) the irs computer system is still not running after ten years of development.

 

[jeninflorida]

Hot Damnn!!
Us Canucks finally have somethin' in common with Tampa Bay, Florida.

hockey?

 

[jeninflorida]

I don't think most Americans want to lean more to socialism. Canadians never have and likely never will.

Like amicus, I think you're confusing an effective Federal government with socialism. I think you're confusing getting things done so as to take care of business with minimum fuss and aggravation, with socialism. I think you're confusing the idea that some things like decisions on military intervention and control of the nuclear weapons stockpile are perhaps best kept out of the hands of free enterprise private corporations... with socialism.

Canadians wanted an effective, cost effective health care system and got it. It was the result of discussion followed by a democratic vote in a democratic country. Any time Canadians feel like getting rid of it, the ballot box is just around the corner.

If Americans stop confusing (and conflating) the idea that health care for all is actually a good idea and can be achieved by reasonable steps to smooth out inequities and by focusing on the solution, not the blockades that exist now....stop equating all of that to socialism...then maybe you could be better off and save a few bucks. A better service at a better price...sounds very capitalistic to me. The reason American Health Insurance companies (all four hundred of them, I'm told) don't have offices in Canada is because they can't compete. Their products are of poor value and higher price. The Canada Health Act does not deny private health companies in Canada. It stipulates what provincial governments must do in providing health care in order to receive federal money.

Canada has a publicly funded medicare system. What most Americans don't realize is that most services are provided by the private sector. Like nearly all doctors in Canada, I was in private practice. I was self employed. The provincial government in my neck of the woods simply ran a better, tighter ship, providing far better care at less cost than any US plan, including your 'Cadillac' plan. People in these parts like it that way. We're no more socialist than you.

And...ahem...that second rate nation comment....The United Nations (one of your ideas I recall) has consistently placed Canada at the top of it's list of best places to live. For some reason that escapes me at the moment, socialism is never mentioned as one of their reasons in giving Canada this distinction. A politically stable, parliamentary democracy, always is mentioned.

oh healthcare, who was that government official that had surgery in Miami? and why? sure it was some type of elective....

military should never be private, we would run out of countries to invade