Post-feminism and BDSM

[ZRT]

For me, it was a lifetime of training that men protect women and children, period. It's what was ground into me as the single most defining element of manhood. And honestly, I still hold to that as one of the strongest elements of what it takes to call oneself a man and be able to look at yourself in the mirror.

So, how do I reconcile this with my tastes? It was really pretty simple, once I made the breakthrough.

If it's safe and she likes it, or at the least receives her fulfillment from serving my desires, then it's okay.

It was a lightbulb going on over my head moment.

Mind the limits, be conscious of the fact that my view of dominance includes a responsibility to work toward the life-satisfaction and happiness of those who submit to me, and I'm within my necessary ethical bounds to be reconciled with my tastes for slapping women around and bouncing them off of things while calling them nasty names.

It was a stunningly simple revelation that changed my life, and now I have no qualms about it. The important part is the groundwork- find the limits, both the ones she knows about and the ones you'll discover as you dive in, be careful, and then for fuck's sake, be myself.

And god damn, most days that's pretty awesome.

 

[Homburg]

When it comes to closed fist, I won't do it, period. Even when I was actively doing MA I rarely closed my fist. Part of it was training, part of it was style, and the vast majority of it was the way I was raised.

A closed fist is a declaration of intent to harm and willful participation in violence. Every fight I've been in my whole life has been entered with open hands and an intent to stop the hostilities.

As a result of this, I equate my own fists with harm and intent to damage, and that goes beyond my own limits.

(Insofar as training and style goes, a clenched tight fist means a tight forearm, which means a slow arm and thus a slow punch. The fist should only be tightened just prior to impact.)

The idea that size and physical capacity is an issue makes sense. Woman are not to be hit because they are smaller. That makes a lot of sense. I've always hated events that did not have weight classes, or some other way to grant some parity in match-ups. It drove me to distraction to spar with little guys, even if they were better than I was (not an uncommon occurrence), yet I would regularly seek out the biggest people in whatever group I was working with.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Well if you ask for it, perhaps. Playful slaps I could do. Not sure I want to make someone's head ring for an hour.

Disrespectful speech will earn you a ringing head.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Disrespectful speech will earn you a ringing head.

as it should.

spanks and slaps and punches and whips, all for giggles and orgasms i just don't get and never will. a sound smack across the mouth or a pop on the head because i was a smart-aleck or didn't get the laundry done just makes sense, it's the world (my world) as it should be.

this makes me a freak within the BDSM "community." fortunately, i have never claimed to be part of said community. it also makes any brand of feminism smell like sulfuric acid to me...and fortunately, i've never claimed to be a feminist either.

 

[JamesSD]

I am sure I am not the only woman who has experienced a warring of emotions between the "modern egalitarian woman" persona she has always identified with, and the "submissive slut" persona she revels in being. I expected it. I deal with it.

What I didn't expect was that Sir also experiences the same warring of emotions. While he has no problem tying me up and fucking me dirty, he balks somewhat at my requests for him to be rougher, and I am not sure what to say because I find it incongruous that he should want to attach clothes pins to various parts of my body and drip hot wax on my skin, but not pull my hair a little bit.

Anyone else with similar experiences? And philosophically, how do you deal with this warring of emotions?

For my lovers and I, this is exactly what makes MDom BDSM so hot. It's "wrong" for her to beg to be treated so "badly". It's "wrong" for her to want to surrender control to me, give up her freedom to a man and obey his wishes.

Of course, we all know that consent is freely given and can be revoked at any time.

 

[ZRT]

When it comes to closed fist, I won't do it, period. Even when I was actively doing MA I rarely closed my fist. Part of it was training, part of it was style, and the vast majority of it was the way I was raised.

A closed fist is a declaration of intent to harm and willful participation in violence. Every fight I've been in my whole life has been entered with open hands and an intent to stop the hostilities.

As a result of this, I equate my own fists with harm and intent to damage, and that goes beyond my own limits.

(Insofar as training and style goes, a clenched tight fist means a tight forearm, which means a slow arm and thus a slow punch. The fist should only be tightened just prior to impact.)

The idea that size and physical capacity is an issue makes sense. Woman are not to be hit because they are smaller. That makes a lot of sense. I've always hated events that did not have weight classes, or some other way to grant some parity in match-ups. It drove me to distraction to spar with little guys, even if they were better than I was (not an uncommon occurrence), yet I would regularly seek out the biggest people in whatever group I was working with.

Closed fist is too dangerous for my tastes. I've done some light slugging to the gut, but face is right out. Besides the issues that facial bruising can bring on, I'm not big on inducing concussions or knocking out teeth. I'd never really considered it, but yeah, it is a mental trigger that shit just got real.

Slapping is perfectly satisfying. It even satisfies a certain dominance aspect inasmuch as 'Y'know, I could really flatten your ass, but... SMACK I won't.'

 

[Netzach]

Well if you ask for it, perhaps. Playful slaps I could do. Not sure I want to make someone's head ring for an hour.

Morality, feminism, and whatnot aside, I don't like the idea of being hauled in for assault when playing with other women. I was just reading a thing where Christopher Hitchens assumes you can only laugh at certain things because you want to be cool, not because you may actually think they're funny. This seems a lot like the assumption that you would only refuse to punch someone because you're not hardcore - when in fact, you may just be risk-averse when it comes to the law. I know I am.

Call me a pussy if you must. The day I can be sure I'm not going to lacerate or break anything with a punch in the head is the day I'm game.

Kicking the ass and punching in the chest OTOH, I love. Plenty of pain and that special rough feeling without the shadow of an MD.

 

[culloden]

... you don't take on those who are weaker...

Excellent observation.

 

[WriterDom]

Disrespectful speech will earn you a ringing head.

Why should she be disrespectful?

 

[lennythelion]

Just wanted to say, "thanks for the responses" and "keep them coming". Both Sir and I are finding this thread interesting and useful.

 

[ZRT]

Morality, feminism, and whatnot aside, I don't like the idea of being hauled in for assault when playing with other women. I was just reading a thing where Christopher Hitchens assumes you can only laugh at certain things because you want to be cool, not because you may actually think they're funny. This seems a lot like the assumption that you would only refuse to punch someone because you're not hardcore - when in fact, you may just be risk-averse when it comes to the law. I know I am.

Call me a pussy if you must. The day I can be sure I'm not going to lacerate or break anything with a punch in the head is the day I'm game.

Kicking the ass and punching in the chest OTOH, I love. Plenty of pain and that special rough feeling without the shadow of an MD.

Funny, I never even considered it from a 'wimpy' standpoint at all.

I mean... I beat women for fun. To the conventional morality mindset, that is more un-masculine than my lack of willingness to, y'know, break bones, bust teeth, and cause permanent brain damage.

Perspective, it's a funny thing.

Yeah, I could see where it comes from in the 'more hardcore than u!!!11!' sense. But not only is it dangerous in various senses, it's also just not my bag. I'm in this to satisfy my god damned deviant sexual impulses, not compare them for bragging rights.

 

[missginger2177]

Why should she be disrespectful?

Stuff happens. Mouths get shot off without thinking. These things do occur in the real world. I oughta know. I also should have had that surgery by now (the one to implant the brain/mouth filter).

 

[00Syd]

[mini hijack]

All this "I can't punch a woman" stuff is... unfortunate to me. I've recently realized that I LOVE getting punched. Not like, a punch to the gut or to the head or something, but a hard punch on my back, thighs, chest or any other place that's generally safe for impact play. It hits deeper and better than any other method I've found.

Its worth considering as a legitimate tool in your BDSM toybox, and not just as a possible way of over-doing it and causing serious damage.

[/mini hijack]

 

[ZRT]

[mini hijack]

All this "I can't punch a woman" stuff is... unfortunate to me. I've recently realized that I LOVE getting punched. Not like, a punch to the gut or to the head or something, but a hard punch on my back, thighs, chest or any other place that's generally safe for impact play. It hits deeper and better than any other method I've found.

Its worth considering as a legitimate tool in your BDSM toybox, and not just as a possible way of over-doing it and causing serious damage.

[/mini hijack]

I'd punch the shit out of your safe impact zones, sweetheart. But just you.

Silver-tongued devil, thy username is ZRT.

 

[BiBunny]

Punching is one of my favorite activities. I NEED to be punched, in the gut, in the tits, in the thighs and cunt. Face-slapping is also a favorite activity. I need both of these things because I love simply the raw physicality of them, the sense that "this man is stronger than me."

I consider myself a feminist. I mean, really, without the feminist movement, would most of us even be here discussing these lifestyle choices we make? Nope.

 

[Daddys_Touch]

Mmmm, punching. Punching was actually something that had just never occurred to me until I met one girl who really loved it. In many ways, rather like me, she was quite vanilla. Didn't like leather or whips or stuff like that. But she did adore being punched. I think it's a combination of the violence of it, the shock to the system, the ache immediately afterwards, and just how taboo it is. She liked to be thrown around, feel like she was being abused and beaten up. She liked the effects it left afterwards too, bruises and cut lips and such.

I guess I'm the same, just from the opposite side of the equation.

 

[Homburg]

Closed fist is too dangerous for my tastes. I've done some light slugging to the gut, but face is right out. Besides the issues that facial bruising can bring on, I'm not big on inducing concussions or knocking out teeth. I'd never really considered it, but yeah, it is a mental trigger that shit just got real.

Slapping is perfectly satisfying. It even satisfies a certain dominance aspect inasmuch as 'Y'know, I could really flatten your ass, but... SMACK I won't.'

Eh, I've knocked a grown man out cold with an open-hand slap to the side of the head. I'm leery about even using the open hand when it comes to the head.

I am fond of The Finger. I use my extended index finger in a sort of rapping motion, usually to the top of the head. No harm, but it gets attention and is sort of dispersonally humiliating.

--

Mmmm, punching. Punching was actually something that had just never occurred to me until I met one girl who really loved it. In many ways, rather like me, she was quite vanilla. Didn't like leather or whips or stuff like that. But she did adore being punched. I think it's a combination of the violence of it, the shock to the system, the ache immediately afterwards, and just how taboo it is. She liked to be thrown around, feel like she was being abused and beaten up. She liked the effects it left afterwards too, bruises and cut lips and such.

I guess I'm the same, just from the opposite side of the equation.

See, the fact that it's "taboo" doesn't enter into the equation. I've too much knowledge on what I've done with my own closed fists.

That said, I don't look down on people that do it. Fill your boots. I just won't do it myself. And this isn't even a "poo is ickeh" thing. I've spent years doing MA and boxing and such, and the body remembers that sort of shit even when the brain doesn't. Last thing I need is to be getting deep into headspace on a scene and drop a full-on shovel hook into some trusting bottom's ribs. Broken ribs aren't sexy.

 

[Netzach]

Eh, I've knocked a grown man out cold with an open-hand slap to the side of the head. I'm leery about even using the open hand when it comes to the head.

I am fond of The Finger. I use my extended index finger in a sort of rapping motion, usually to the top of the head. No harm, but it gets attention and is sort of dispersonally humiliating.

I'm imagining an accompanying sound effect of ....doink!
Humiliation factor - intense. Hee hee.

 

[Netzach]

[mini hijack]

All this "I can't punch a woman" stuff is... unfortunate to me. I've recently realized that I LOVE getting punched. Not like, a punch to the gut or to the head or something, but a hard punch on my back, thighs, chest or any other place that's generally safe for impact play. It hits deeper and better than any other method I've found.

Its worth considering as a legitimate tool in your BDSM toybox, and not just as a possible way of over-doing it and causing serious damage.

[/mini hijack]

I learned these techniques from a woman who demonstrated them on the tiniest little thing, kicking her bony ass up and down the room. In ten seconds of "omg that's hot" it completely opened my personal vistas.

 

[ZRT]

Eh, I've knocked a grown man out cold with an open-hand slap to the side of the head. I'm leery about even using the open hand when it comes to the head.

Oh yeah, side of head and full force can give you the same concussive effect as a shot flush on the button, no argument there. You don't put shoulder into a good sexy slap, just some forearm and a lot of love.

 

[Homburg]

I'm imagining an accompanying sound effect of ....doink!
Humiliation factor - intense. Hee hee.

The surprised blinking never gets old.

--

Oh yeah, side of head and full force can give you the same concussive effect as a shot flush on the button, no argument there. You don't put shoulder into a good sexy slap, just some forearm and a lot of love.

Eh, spent too long training the body to do one thing. I really don't want to have to retrain it for something like this. Nor, as I said, do I want to take that chance of using the wrong neural pathways.

One day I was talking about boxing, and MIS asked me a question, so I started shadow boxing a bit and explaining how the various strikes worked. Started doing some Thai style work and was getting into it. The look on her face was interesting, as she'd never seen me move like that. "Wow, you're fast,*" was her major comment. It was a weird moment, as she got to see a side of me that she'd never seen, and, later, said that she understood why I didn't punch or do slaps to the head in play.

We can talk technique all day long, and I'm all about it. But, at the end of the day, I know my limits, and I don't want to chase them in an arena like this. I mean, honestly, I've had my Rocky moment. I've had that experience where I was in the mix with someone and hit them so hard that blood, snot, and sweat sprayed all over me. Not sexy. No desire to replicate said experience in scene. Or out of scene. My mouth was open. Do not want.

Maybe I'm weird, or just chicken, I dunno. But this conversation happens whenever punching and slapping comes up. No judgement on people that do it. Y'all either have more control or trust yourselves better.


* - I'm not fast. Not by a long shot. But when I'm doing that, I move a helluva lot faster than she's used to seeing me move.

 

[intothewoods]

[mini hijack]

All this "I can't punch a woman" stuff is... unfortunate to me. I've recently realized that I LOVE getting punched. Not like, a punch to the gut or to the head or something, but a hard punch on my back, thighs, chest or any other place that's generally safe for impact play. It hits deeper and better than any other method I've found.

Its worth considering as a legitimate tool in your BDSM toybox, and not just as a possible way of over-doing it and causing serious damage.

[/mini hijack]

Punching is one of my favorite activities. I NEED to be punched, in the gut, in the tits, in the thighs and cunt. Face-slapping is also a favorite activity. I need both of these things because I love simply the raw physicality of them, the sense that "this man is stronger than me."

I consider myself a feminist. I mean, really, without the feminist movement, would most of us even be here discussing these lifestyle choices we make? Nope.

What they said.

 

[missginger2177]

<snip>
We can talk technique all day long, and I'm all about it. But, at the end of the day, I know my limits, and I don't want to chase them in an arena like this. I mean, honestly, I've had my Rocky moment. I've had that experience where I in the mix with someone and hit them so hard that blood, snot, and sweat sprayed all over me. Not sexy. No desire to replicate said experience in scene. Or out of scene. My mouth was open. Do not want.
<snip>

Glad I hadn't eaten before I read that one.

 

[Netzach]

The surprised blinking never gets old.

--



Eh, spent too long training the body to do one thing. I really don't want to have to retrain it for something like this. Nor, as I said, do I want to take that chance of using the wrong neural pathways.

One day I was talking about boxing, and MIS asked me a question, so I started shadow boxing a bit and explaining how the various strikes worked. Started doing some Thai style work and was getting into it. The look on her face was interesting, as she'd never seen me move like that. "Wow, you're fast," was her major comment. It was a weird moment, as she got to see a side of me that she'd never seen, and, later, said that she understood why I didn't punch or do slaps to the head in play.

We can talk technique all day long, and I'm all about it. But, at the end of the day, I know my limits, and I don't want to chase them in an arena like this. I mean, honestly, I've had my Rocky moment. I've had that experience where I in the mix with someone and hit them so hard that blood, snot, and sweat sprayed all over me. Not sexy. No desire to replicate said experience in scene. Or out of scene. My mouth was open. Do not want.

Maybe I'm weird, or just chicken, I dunno. But this conversation happens whenever punching and slapping comes up. No judgement on people that do it. Y'all either have more control or trust yourselves better.

Can this also just be a case of something being erection killed via context and training? Like how I imagine MD's feel about medical fetish scenes? In addition to the desire not to find out what happens when you mix contextual stuff, a heavy dose of "omg, boring, btdt."

That makes a lot of sense to me, anyway.

 

[JMohegan]

I've never done any boxing or MA training, but I'm also totally uninterested in punching in a sexual context. This isn't an issue of holding myself back. The urge to make that type of movement, sexually, just isn't there.

When I'm worked up, I'm doing what comes naturally - letting go, if you will. Forcible restraint, flipping, tossing, smacking, pinching, twisting, biting - all of that just sort of comes with the flow. But punching? Never. I'm not sure why, and I'm not sure it matters why. In a sexual context, it's just not what I do.