"YOU LIE!" The Clear and Present Danger of One Party Rule & A Captive Press…

[amicus]

"YOU LIE!" The Clear and Present Danger of One Party Rule & A Captive Press…

YOU LIE!

Less than 24 hours after that statement was hurled at the President in the Joint Session of Congress,(watch Pelosi’s head spin completely around), you can buy, online, buttons and bumper stickers and T-Shirts with the now infamous two words.

Pundits are predicting that the Democrat majority in both the House and the Senate will push Healthcare legislation through Congress without a single Republican vote.

The new President has surrounded himself with Left Wing Radicals, most of whom are not subject to Congressional Approval and many voicing far left radical changes to the American Government. These are high paid positions, $175,000, higher than the average Medical Doctor earns at approximately $160,000 per annum.

It is not just Domestic Issues being corrupted by these new ‘advisors’ to the Commander in Chief; the Intelligence Community is in shambles and the Prime Minister of Israel made a secret trip to Moscow to urge the Russians not to sell 300 SAM’s, (Surface to Air Missiles), to the Iranians. An indication that Israel is on the verge of destroying Iran's Nuclear Facilities.

Add to that the increased Iranian disruption of Coalition troop withdrawals from Iraq and Iranian weapons in Afghanistan being used against American Troops.

The Far Left Agenda that hoodwinked the American voting public last November, the continued ‘Snake Oil’ salesman, campaign mode mindset of Obama, is beginning to fall apart at the seams as this new Left Wing government attempts to govern.

Congratulations Left Wing Litsters; your dreams have all come true.

YOU LIE!

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

Its the FREE LUNCH they dream of.

 

[bronzeage]

People are paying for a T-shirt with "You Lie" printed on it?

No wonder you people lost.

 

[amicus]

The outburst came following Obama's statement that illegal aliens would not receive treatment under the new plan.

Republicans put forth legislation that would say specifically that illegals were not eligible and the Democrats voted it down.

While HR3200 as written does not specifically mention illegal aliens, the wording is so specious as to permit that treatment to be given and paid for under the bill.

From the Forrest Gump film, "Shit Happens", became Tshirts & bumber stickers, why not, "You Lie!?"

(that one too from Gump)

Amicus

 

[bronzeage]

The outburst came following Obama's statement that illegal aliens would not receive treatment under the new plan.

Republicans put forth legislation that would say specifically that illegals were not eligible and the Democrats voted it down.

While HR3200 as written does not specifically mention illegal aliens, the wording is so specious as to permit that treatment to be given and paid for under the bill.

From the Forrest Gump film, "Shit Happens", became Tshirts & bumber stickers, why not, "You Lie!?"

(that one too from Gump)

Amicus

Let me see if I have this straight.

You think the phrase "Shit Happens" which appeared on bumper stickers and T-shirts was original to the Forest Gump movie.

That explains a lot.

 

[amicus]

Your screen name suits you, I don't think it is possible to dumb down language to equal your mental acuity.

The Republicans also offered an Amendment to HR3200 that would prohibit health care treatment from being used for Abortions.

Guess what?

The Democrats voted it down.

Did you buy your Blinders from ACORN? On sale?

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Obama lied because illegals will be treated at hospitals and public health clinics...period. No facility will risk a lawsuit by refusing help.

We'll weasle around prohibitions with phoney paperwork.

My county gets around such problems after it dropped its old policy of requiring residents to use social security numbers for ID. Now your birthdate is sufficient to get library cards and use the recreation centers. Illegals have birthdays, not social security.

 

[bronzeage]

Your screen name suits you, I don't think it is possible to dumb down language to equal your mental acuity.

The Republicans also offered an Amendment to HR3200 that would prohibit health care treatment from being used for Abortions.

Guess what?

The Democrats voted it down.

Did you buy your Blinders from ACORN? On sale?

Amicus

Yours certainly seems poorly chosen.

I just observed that if you thought "Shit Happens" was original to a movie released in 1994, could only mean you don't pay much attention to popular culture, at least as far as reading T-shirts and bumper stickers. You do know those pictures of Tom Hanks standing beside John Kennedy and George Wallace was trick photography.

Those abortions would have been used to prevent more liberal voters from being born. Imagine the effects of free abortions for illegal immigrants.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

The one party situation has only arisen because the other side aren't doing their job properly.

I don't see anything resembling coherent arguments coming from the right. It's drowned out by all the mad frothings pandering to a decreasing support base. The repubs need a big big purge to get rid of the loonies and come up with a sensible blueprint to run the country.

What happened to the US economy near the end of Bush's term should not have happened under a right wing, conservative government.

 

[amicus]

The one party situation has only arisen because the other side aren't doing their job properly.

I don't see anything resembling coherent arguments coming from the right. It's drowned out by all the mad frothings pandering to a decreasing support base. The repubs need a big big purge to get rid of the loonies and come up with a sensible blueprint to run the country.

What happened to the US economy near the end of Bush's term should not have happened under a right wing, conservative government.

~~~

The one party situation was created by the voting public. Lip service only has been paid to 'bi-partisan' efforts; the Democrats have an unstoppable majority in Congress and they are going to take advantage of it, regardless.

Your definition of, 'loonies' probably differs from mine and you may well regret that position, or at least find reason to temper it in coming elections.

I had and have no fondness for either Bush as Presidents. In my opinion, both are weak moderate to left wing Republicans. Although I do not offer this as an apology, I think one might consider 9/11, the stock market being closed for a week, the costs of two wars, like the wars or not, Katrina and the destruction of oil platforms & refineries and the Democrat run Fannie & Freddie with Pigouvian policies towards low income buyers. In brief, those events would have stressed the economy under any administration.

Thank you for the opinion...

Amicus

 

[Darkniciad]

Sorry, Ami, but I can't find the humor in this. One thing that we've always had, which I'm sad to see fading, is a certain degree of decorum within the halls of government. We've always chuckled and shook our heads at the shouting matches and cries of "bollocks!" in Parliment, the fist fights that have broken out elsewhere, etc. Now, it seems we're trending that way ourselves.

If you can't respect the man, or his policies, at least respect the office in a frikkin' joint session of congress, or any formal address.

This was just a sad, sad incident, and deserves universal denouncement, not t-shirts and bumper stickers. It should serve as a wakeup call, but will probably end up as the core of a giant snowball with bloody noses and busted knuckles at the bottom of the hill

 

[amicus]

DarknClad...two things...I was appalled, many, many years ago, upon witnessing the behavior in the British Parliament. However, as the years passed, it seemed to me that this was acceptable behavior for that body.

Although most on this forum do not see such issues as abortion and socialism as life and death issues demanding passionate participation, there are many out there in middle America who feel an entire way of life is under severe threat.

Thus I disagree with you...I would have been pleased had the whole Republican contingent in the Joint Session rose as one and cried Liar.

Know it or not, believe it or not, there is true outrage all across this country concerning the direction government has taken. That it would be reflected in our Representatives is a natural and logical progression.

Amicus

 

[Darkniciad]

:: Looks at his location and blinks ::

Yeah, I think I have a pretty good idea of where middle America is on the outrage thing, considering I live there, both financially and physically.

The general populace is always inclined toward shouting, as is their right. I don't think it accomplishes much ( and hurts more than it helps, actually ) but they have their right to it.

Elected officials should at least act like they have a level head on their shoulders. It's about all we can hope for in a large percentage of them. At the very least, they should act that way in a joint session of congress.

Just because the people we send to government are supposed to represent us doesn't mean that they have to represent every rotten trait in the populace as well. You can make an impassioned, articulate argument for something, full of fire, without stooping to the equivalent of screaming "You're a doo-doo head!" which is what this was.

DarknClad...two things...I was appalled, many, many years ago, upon witnessing the behavior in the British Parliament. However, as the years passed, it seemed to me that this was acceptable behavior for that body.

Although most on this forum do not see such issues as abortion and socialism as life and death issues demanding passionate participation, there are many out there in middle America who feel an entire way of life is under severe threat.

Thus I disagree with you...I would have been pleased had the whole Republican contingent in the Joint Session rose as one and cried Liar.

Know it or not, believe it or not, there is true outrage all across this country concerning the direction government has taken. That it would be reflected in our Representatives is a natural and logical progression.

Amicus

 

[lance gt]

All I read here are two sides arguing over the same thing. America is going to change. Americans hate change. They feel they are the most superior contry in the world and everything they do should be adopted by the rest of us. Face facts all of you. Bumper stickers and T-shirts aside. The life you know now is going to change and you have to accept that it will or you will drive your own nation into chaos and anarchy. All I can say is , "Try it, You'll like it, Mikey does." As the old saying goes, 'Give me the power to accept that which I cannot change.

 

[JamesSD]

Congratulations Left Wing Litsters; your dreams have all come true.

Thanks!

I admit I was feeling a little beaten up on this important issue, but it sounds like cooler heads are going to prevail. The party of "No" doesn't have the votes to stop us, and a filibuster seems unlikely.

Incidentally, EVERY independent fact-checking organization has agreed with the President and NOT with mr. "You Lie" on that point. There is NOTHING in the new legislation that extends benefits to illegals. At best, they will be able to purchase the government plan the same way everyone else can, on the free market, similar to how illegals can currently buy health insurance from any other insurer.

"You Lie!" was a gift, in a way. There are weaknesses to the Obama plan, and legitimate cost concerns, although I strongly believe our moral obligation to fellow man is far stronger than nitpicking a few numbers.

We tried the bipartisan thing. The Republicans weren't willing to compromise. It's go time!

 

[amicus]

All I read here are two sides arguing over the same thing. America is going to change. Americans hate change. They feel they are the most superior contry in the world and everything they do should be adopted by the rest of us. Face facts all of you. Bumper stickers and T-shirts aside. The life you know now is going to change and you have to accept that it will or you will drive your own nation into chaos and anarchy. All I can say is , "Try it, You'll like it, Mikey does." As the old saying goes, 'Give me the power to accept that which I cannot change.[/QUOTE]

~~~

There is a little truth in what you say...but not much. Change is a constant in life, change is inevitable, but one cannot violate one's moral principles and have a shred of honor left.

Unless the Left eases up on their demands for change, the abolition of a free market economy, the socialization and nationalization of corporate America and the visceral wrenching social changes of abortion, homosexuality and feminism, then you will find middle America driving the Nation to a resolution of this moral and ethical crisis.

Dylan sang it: 'Blowing in the Wind'. This half century old rejection of tradional morality and conventional behavior is about to come to an end and I parse it will not be a peaceful change.

Amicus

 

[amicus]

JamesSD: "....We tried the bipartisan thing. The Republicans weren't willing to compromise. It's go time!"

~~~

Let us please drop the pretense; there was and is and won't be any attempt at bipartisanship with the current make-up of Congress.

Why would the Democrats compromise and accept any of the nearly 150 Republican Amendments offered on HR3200, when they can bull their way through without a single Republican?

And why would you think the Minority Party would compromise? Political expedience? Politics is defined as compromise but not when it comes to basic moral principles. I won't compromie mine, would you, yours?

Amicus

 

[DG Hear]

Thanks!

I admit I was feeling a little beaten up on this important issue, but it sounds like cooler heads are going to prevail. The party of "No" doesn't have the votes to stop us, and a filibuster seems unlikely.

Incidentally, EVERY independent fact-checking organization has agreed with the President and NOT with mr. "You Lie" on that point. There is NOTHING in the new legislation that extends benefits to illegals. At best, they will be able to purchase the government plan the same way everyone else can, on the free market, similar to how illegals can currently buy health insurance from any other insurer.

"You Lie!" was a gift, in a way. There are weaknesses to the Obama plan, and legitimate cost concerns, although I strongly believe our moral obligation to fellow man is far stronger than nitpicking a few numbers.

We tried the bipartisan thing. The Republicans weren't willing to compromise. It's go time!

I'm in a quandry here. Most everyone I talk to who doesn't have health insurance tell me they don't have it, because they can't afford it. Now the government tells them they are going to get them all health insurance.

The problem is they are going to have to pay for it. If they don't buy it, they will be fined. I have friends who own small businesses. They are told that if they do not supply health insurance to both their full and part-time employees, they will be fined also.

They don't have health insurance on themselves, because they are doing there best to get buy and just don't have the finances.

Doesn't anyone understand what this will do to the small businesses in every town? Talk to the small business owners in wherever you live and see what they have to say. I talk to dozens every week, contractors and owners of small business.

Many of them they this will put them out of business, and nobody is listening to them.

Sad, government wins, small businesses lose. Then there are people like you that think this is good. All because of political parties, nothing to do with the tragedies that follow.

 

[JamesSD]

Oh, Rep. Joe "I Lie" Wilson probably put his relatively safe seat into play for 2010 with his little outburst. His Democratic challenger has gotten $350,000 in contributions since last night.

Rep. Wilson has apologized for his outburst, but is the damage done? He didn't exactly win by a crushing margin in '08, but perhaps the public will be forgetful by '10. Still, it's never good in politics to hand your opponent a bunch of cash.

 

[JamesSD]

Doesn't anyone understand what this will do to the small businesses in every town? Talk to the small business owners in wherever you live and see what they have to say. I talk to dozens every week, contractors and owners of small business.

Many of them they this will put them out of business, and nobody is listening to them.

"Now, for those individuals and small businesses who still can't afford the lower-priced insurance available in the exchange, we'll provide tax credits, the size of which will be based on your need." -- Obama last night.

Problem solved.

 

[Belegon]

Doesn't anyone understand what this will do to the small businesses in every town? Talk to the small business owners in wherever you live and see what they have to say. I talk to dozens every week, contractors and owners of small business.

Many of them they this will put them out of business, and nobody is listening to them.

.

This is so dramatically the opposite of the truth that someone needs to call you on it.

Health care costs for employees, and more importantly employee comp insurance, is the largest indirect cost for almost every employer in small to medium size business.


I used to help them with their accounts before I started pursuing writing. I've seen the actual numbers, seen the costs in their bank statements.

I've seen the actual numbers, not listened to people spouting platitudes.


Something needs to be done. If it has to be done without republican votes, so be it.

We are failing at health care, Period.

 

[amicus]

DGHear: "...Sad, government wins, small businesses lose. Then there are people like you that think this is good. All because of political parties, nothing to do with the tragedies that follow."

~~~

Disregarding the pat answer that taxpayers will foot the bill in a budget zero statement by the President, it would put the nation in even greater debt and provide less and lower quality medical service.

It is an ideology at work here, DG, the rhetoric that all, 'western civilized nations have socialized medicine except the USA', ignores the fact that all of Europe, except England was occupied by the Germans then the Russians, both totalitarian governments, and Canada, well, the Canucks have never had a mind of their own they just follow the Brits and bow to the Queen.

The rhetoric of the left includes the rights to free health care, fair wages, liveable housing and a good job; they believe that like a religious faith and never ask, 'provided by whom?'.

The mild style of European socialism will either die on the vine or become full fledged totalitarian States. As even Liar pointed out, his country tried socialized medicine and then modified it and even that is bankrupt.

Happy to have your voice added to the discussion.

Amicus

 

[amicus]

Belegon...knowing your political persuasions, since you have expressed them before, I take that into consideration.

Most Americans are happy with their current health insurance. Most Americans want improvement by Tort Reform, opening health insurance into national competition to induce competition, lower prices and more consumer oriented policies.

How you can think, for even a billionth of a second, that the perpetrators of Social Security(bankrupt), Medicare(bankrupt), Medicaid(bankrupt) US Post Office(bankrupt), can solve healthcare problems on a national level is beyond anyone with a rational mind. Only a 'true believer' could think otherwise.

Amicus

 

[DG Hear]

"Now, for those individuals and small businesses who still can't afford the lower-priced insurance available in the exchange, we'll provide tax credits, the size of which will be based on your need." -- Obama last night.

Problem solved.

This is so dramatically the opposite of the truth that someone needs to call you on it.

Health care costs for employees, and more importantly employee comp insurance, is the largest indirect cost for almost every employer in small to medium size business.


I used to help them with their accounts before I started pursuing writing. I've seen the actual numbers, seen the costs in their bank statements.

I've seen the actual numbers, not listened to people spouting platitudes.


Something needs to be done. If it has to be done without republican votes, so be it.

We are failing at health care, Period.

You called me on it and I'll do my best to be truthfull here. I do the books for a few small businesses. They got the letters that I mentioned. Thes businesses can't afford insurance much less the fines. Some were barely in the black last year. Two ended up in the red.

These are real people with real lives. Both Dems And Rep. They are worried. You might be hearing the words from Obama but when they have asked for clarification they got what I have already told you. It is going to cost them.

They also still have to pay workmens comp and of course half the Social Security. At best they will be laying off some employess, at worst they will be closing shop. Not platitudes as you put it but hard facts.

Freedom of choice, Sure, pay for the insurance or we'll fine you.

As I say you're still about politics at any cost. So let's make it political. Make every government worker including the politicians on this plan and Social Security. The Dems have the votes to do it. If it's good enough for the average person, it's good enough for them.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I think it was a breach of decorum, but I also think the accusation was accurate. The government will not be able to avoid payhing the bills for illegal aliens, although they might try. Some of them have phony green cards and some of them probably have phony citizenship papers.

I also think he lied when he said that the gov. won't pay for abortions. Medicaid pays for them now, and there's no reason to believe than will change.

That's not a complaint. I consider a payment for an abortion for a Medicaid recipient to be a good investment. Nine months of prenatal care, followed by the birth in a hospital, followed by post-natal care is many times more than the payment for the abortion would have been. Besides that, the majority of the women who would want abortions through Medicaid are probably single. I have no idea of the actual statistics, but it seems to be logical. The baby will probably also prevent mom from becoming self-sufficient and a taxpayer and a contributing member of Society. Besides all that, the offspring of single mothers are much more likely to become criminals. I could probably find statistics on that if I wanted to look.

All things considered, I much prefer abortions be paid for through the government option, by whatever its name.