a discussion thread about moderating this forum

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

That fucking thread should never have been in this forum in the first place. Laurel ignored our protests when it was first placed here.


She finally relents when he insults a grieving mother, despite the hundreds of insults he'd already posted. You know how children that torture animals grow up to assault people? Same difference. Really, some of the things he said would have resulted in a ban on any forum I've ever been on, it doesn't take a Supreme court judge to notice how blatantly he'd overstepped the line.

Laurel, when she ignored our protests, was acting as if we had no sense of judgement, and deserved no respect. That's the way I see it.

Yes, maybe Laurel knew better. Maybe Laurel believed that you have no sense of judgement and don't deserve any respect. My feelings, too.

 

[Sex and Death]

The thing about "unwritten" rules is that they're not really rules - nobody had to warn me, I recognize marketing spam when I see it - the only reason his thread is still up is because you people cannot resist the bait, and he probably does employ a couple of astroturfers to keep the thing bumped up. It's a big fucking yawn - it's a difficult time and perhaps it distracts from more painful thoughts, but does no-one have anything better to talk about?

xssve,

The person in question did not stay within the scope of his own thread. In his own thread, unrelated to the thread my wife posted, he commented on my dead son with inhuman disrespect. He then proceeded to say more inhuman things about my wife and my recently stillborn son in my wife's thread about our loss.

What do YOU do when your toilet overflows and the shit spills out onto your bunny slippers? I get a plunger, disposable towles, a mop and a bucket of bleach water and get to work disposing of the shit properly.

What would you do if someone refused to cease repeatedly walking into the house in which you were having a discussion with friends after the wake of your dead child and this person continued to say shockingly offensive things regarding your wife and dead child? Would you ignore him? In flesh and blood life I would render him unconscious, restrain him with extreme prejudice, call EMS and the police, and give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting they screen and assess him for severe and persistent mental illness, and perhaps get him some treatment, before I followed through pressing charges on him. If the police refused to come, I would handle it.

Stella is absolutely right. Ignore-ance is bliss, if you're a sheep, but leads only to slaughter if there's no sheepdog. Sheep tend to resent the sheepdog because they can live in ignore-ance of the wolf due to the sheepdog's vigilance and promise to put themselves in harm's way to protect the right (read, privelege) of the sheep to talk with fear about the wolves and resentment about the mean ole' sheepdog and the not-so-nice things sheepdogs have to do in their job. It is true that the sheepdog has to be friends with his inner wolf, and so causes fear in the sheep. Someone has to pay attention if others keep their eyes closed and their fingers in their ears. It is also true that the idiots in question are not real wolves, but clearly unparented anally expulsive adolescents. What…I guess the WWF wasn't on pay-per-view the past few days???

The quality of what we call civilization depends on the quality of the walls, seen or unseen, surrounding it and the quality of the people that man those walls. The asshole in question snuck through the walls and heckled my family's post-wake discussion with friends. It took the police awhile to get here because we all, the police included, have more important things to do than to appropriately socialize such adolescent smooth-brained flaming idiots, so we handled it until they arrived.

Personally, I couldn't care less if the asswipe's ego is fed by my actions or not. If he masturbates faster in his dorm room with his roommates because I get him excited, that's good for him. I don't think anyone in any forum should have to choose between being sprayed with his impotent premature ejaculate or leaving the forum. But that's me. I swat flies. I don't let them shit in my chip dip if I can help it.

Free speech aint' free.

Anyway, the police came, handled the bad guys, and taped off the scene.

S&D

 

[Stella_Omega]

What…I guess the WWF wasn't on pay-per-view the past few days???...
S&D

See, this is the thing that makes me so damn angry. because these people havew been like this since the day they showed up here. The comments they made about you have hit more people harder-- but scouries has said things that were so fucking disrespectful about my gender, orientation, race-- all in one statement, in fact. I wanted to puke, and i wanted to disembowel the miserable worm.

And I get to pretend that HE NEVER SAID IT. That's what I get. If I make a stink, I'm not taking the goddamn high road, shame on me. Either way, I lose.

meanwhile, he insults someone else the next day, and then he insults someone further the day after that. The insult he gave you was only one out of hundreds. And there has been nothing we could do about him.

And we need, and we deserve, some moderation in this forum.

 

[Recidiva]

See, this is the thing that makes me so damn angry. because these people havew been like this since the day they showed up here. The comments they made about you have hit more people harder-- but scouries has said things that were so fucking disrespectful about my gender, orientation, race-- all in one statement, in fact. I wanted to puke, and i wanted to disembowel the miserable worm.

And I get to pretend that HE NEVER SAID IT. That's what I get. If I make a stink, I'm not taking the goddamn high road, shame on me. Either way, I lose.

meanwhile, he insults someone else the next day, and then he insults someone further the day after that. The insult he gave you was only one out of hundreds. And there has been nothing we could do about him.

And we need, and we deserve, some moderation in this forum.

You don't have to pretend anything. I suggested the low road, you don't want to take it. Someone else suggests the high road, you don't want to take that. You want to take YOUR road and you want everyone else on it with you in lock step.

And that I can't do, I love you, but I can't do that with you.

Nobody's making you do anything.

You're not helpless. You're angry and you want to lash out and you're blaming everyone else for holding you back and that's fine. Go. But don't claim you've been victimized. You're on the same ground everyone else is on and if you refuse to use any of the tactics at your disposal that is not the group's fault.

I am not included in your "we" because I moderate myself. And although I appreciate your grief and I appreciate your passion, you're using it in a way that's destructive to yourself and to this board and I will draw a line somewhere and tell you I'm not crossing it with you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're not helpless. You're angry and you want to lash out and you're blaming everyone else for holding you back and that's fine. Go. But don't claim you've been victimized. You're on the same ground everyone else is on and if you refuse to use any of the tactics at your disposal that is not the group's fault.

This is so disrespectful, Diva, it sounds like you haven't read one single thing I've already written.

Actually everything you posted there-- "lock step" and "destructive" for instance, are absolute bollocks, in the context of everything else I've said.

 

[Sex and Death]

See, this is the thing that makes me so damn angry. because these people havew been like this since the day they showed up here. The comments they made about you have hit more people harder-- but scouries has said things that were so fucking disrespectful about my gender, orientation, race-- all in one statement, in fact. I wanted to puke, and i wanted to disembowel the miserable worm.

And I get to pretend that HE NEVER SAID IT. That's what I get. If I make a stink, I'm not taking the goddamn high road, shame on me. Either way, I lose.

meanwhile, he insults someone else the next day, and then he insults someone further the day after that. The insult he gave you was only one out of hundreds. And there has been nothing we could do about him.

And we need, and we deserve, some moderation in this forum.

Stella. I'm sorry you've been subjected to his insults. It's unconscionable and unfair, and should have been acted on. If this were the schoolyard I'd beat the snot of him for you (dear me, oh how I wish this were the schoolyard). I didn't read what he said, but I have no doubt you were wronged.

If there were more I could do, I would do it (believe me).

You folks who are regular community members here need to watch each others' backs and take action together.

S&D

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella. I'm sorry you've been subjected to his insults. It's unconscionable and unfair, and should have been acted on. If this were the schoolyard I'd beat the snot of him for you (dear me, oh how I wish this were the schoolyard). I didn't read what he said, but I have no doubt you were wronged.

If there were more I could do, I would do it (believe me).

You folks who are regular community members here need to watch each others' backs and take action together.

S&D

Or else, find a community where watching one another's backs allows for some rectification.

I should have the right to at least request the post be removed. Because that's really the only action that counts, on the internet. And it's not that fucking unreasonable.

And the point is that what he said about you and selena is only one of a long string of things he's said. This problem has been obvious from the very first post he made here.

 

[xssve]

xssve,

The person in question did not stay within the scope of his own thread. In his own thread, unrelated to the thread my wife posted, he commented on my dead son with inhuman disrespect. He then proceeded to say more inhuman things about my wife and my recently stillborn son in my wife's thread about our loss.

What do YOU do when your toilet overflows and the shit spills out onto your bunny slippers? I get a plunger, disposable towles, a mop and a bucket of bleach water and get to work disposing of the shit properly.

S&D

It's the price of living in a free society that you have to put up with social retards sometimes, and no social controls on the internet means people say things that would get their asses kicked with no undue haste or regret in the real world.

And no but I don't blame you a bit man, believe me, I blow up all the time for far less provocation. All I'm saying is I already ignore most of these dumb asses, as far as I'm concerned it's as if they don't exist, I wouldn't even let them in my front door after this, and I back you up 100%, they're ain't making any friends. Just as general rule, I'm not even going to dignify them by taking them seriously.

I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry you and Selena had to deal with this under these tragic circumstances, I fully agree that this is beyond the pale, and the point I'm trying to make is that it just confirms why I don't pay attention to them to begin with.

 

[sr71plt]

See, this is the thing that makes me so damn angry. because these people havew been like this since the day they showed up here. The comments they made about you have hit more people harder-- but scouries has said things that were so fucking disrespectful about my gender, orientation, race-- all in one statement, in fact. I wanted to puke, and i wanted to disembowel the miserable worm.

And I get to pretend that HE NEVER SAID IT. That's what I get. If I make a stink, I'm not taking the goddamn high road, shame on me. Either way, I lose.

meanwhile, he insults someone else the next day, and then he insults someone further the day after that. The insult he gave you was only one out of hundreds. And there has been nothing we could do about him.

And we need, and we deserve, some moderation in this forum.

Well, for self-preservation, you really do need to put this type of activity into perspective. It's all part of the "get his/her goat" Internet game. Those playing a rough version of it these past few days have been nearly (not this over the top, of course) as rough with me--on the same basis you are highlighting here--for months--dare I say years (without all that much "community" outrage expressed on my behalf in terms of the greater social issues being sullied--and the "community" didn't, because we're all somewhere along that "get his/her goat" game spectrum with each and every other poster ourselves). Hell, the last run BFW made at me on the sexual preference issue, that good 'ole champion of gay causes safe_bet joined in with him (although you have that thread on ignore). But it was all connected to the "get his goat" (or try to at least) Internet game.

If you can keep perspective, you won't be victimized by this. If you can't, you are a disadvantage in chatting on the Internet from the getgo.

 

[Liar]

Open question: does moderation work?

I have two moderated forums that I visit now and then. The first is Lit's Poetry board, and to be honest, I don't think the mods do much more there than remove the occasional spam now and then, or put threads in the chatter subforum if they turn too chatter-y. There has been some venomous gripes and vendettas showing the worst sides of people there too from time to time (but not a lot, since it's a muuuuch slower pace and fewer people there), and it's as far as I can tell, left alone. If someone post personal information on another member, ad-spam or flood the forum with gibberish, it gets cleaned up. But the line between sharp rethoric and inflammatory attacks is one blurry fucker sometimes, so when chairs fly and bile is being spewed, that school of moderation doesn't do much good for the tone of the discourse.

The other place, where the moderator is trying to regulate people to civility, does not work at all. If you agree with and buddy up to the moderator, you can pretty much smear poop on the walls and get away with it. If he's got a thorn in the side with you, you can't start a new topic, unless it's a grovelling, self-demeaning apology. His clique runs rampant over anyone with a dissending opinion or anyone suggesting that maybe, just maybe, he's not being impartial in his moderation efforts.

Is there a golden middle road? And who is the sage to guide us there?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, for self-preservation, you really do need to put this type of activity into perspective. It's all part of the "get his/her goat" Internet game. Those playing a rough version of it these past few days have been nearly (not this over the top, of course) as rough with me--on the same basis you are highlighting here--for months--dare I say years (without all that much "community" outrage expressed on my behalf in terms of the greater social issues being sullied). Hell, the last run BFW made at me on the sexual preference issue, that good 'ole champion of gay causes safe_bet joined in with him (although you have that thread on ignore). But it was all connected to the "get his goat" Internet game.

If you can keep perspective, you won't be victimized by this. If you can't, you are a disadvantage in chatting on the Internet from the getgo.

And once more, you highlight the problem.

You "ignore" the insults, taking the high road. I might not notice the insult-- because you know damn well how I feel about this, I would say something. I had to take JBJ off ignore to give diva her examples, and a nastier pile of garbage I've yet to see If I have him on ignore, I won't be able to express my outrage. safe_bet and I disagree on this one, I'm sure, but if he's insulting you for being queer, he's insulting me at the same time-- as well as Bets, and her wife. So taking the high road minimises community outrage.

When I first came to this forum, I'd left one that was a perpetual battlefield, with no moderators, it had been set up and abandoned. I helped bring it down in the end, to force the main group onto their own site that they could run on their own terms-- that new forum is still flourishing, and the old one is a wasteland.

AH was erudite-- and untrolled, because it was a tiny backwater compared with GB. That's why I stayed. Now, it's trolled, and past a point that I, personally, want to tolerate. The internet is pretty DIY, so I either see if I can change that, or decide how much time I still want to invest here. There are people here that i care for, and if they want to leave, and we all find a new forum to go to, I won't miss the literotica brand name much. It's the people, not the site itself.

 

[sr71plt]

And once more, you highlight the problem.

You "ignore" the insults, taking the high road.

Not always. Sometimes I play back at them with it--which "the community" apparently wants to make a rule against now. They say they'll put me on ignore for taking this road. (Hell, Cantdog already put me back on ignore yesterday when I asserted I'd still do it.)

safe_bet and I disagree on this one, I'm sure, but if he's insulting you for being queer, he's insulting me at the same time-- as well as Bets, and her wife.

I rather thought that too--but safe_bet opted for the "get his goat" game as being of a higher priority for her. I think most posters do. Certainly makes safe_bet's priorities clear to me.

When I first came to this forum, I'd left one that was a perpetual battlefield, with no moderators, it had been set up and abandoned. I helped bring it down in the end, to force the main group onto their own site that they could run on their own terms-- that new forum is still flourishing, and the old one is a wasteland.

So, sort of a "here we go again" with you then, I take it.

AH was erudite-- and untrolled, because it was a tiny backwater compared with GB. That's why I stayed. Now, it's trolled, and past a point that I, personally, want to tolerate. The internet is pretty DIY, so I either see if I can change that, or decide how much time I still want to invest here. There are people here that i care for, and if they want to leave, and we all find a new forum to go to, I won't miss the literotica brand name much. It's the people, not the site itself.

And what I hear you saying is that you want to just haul your friends away to a new site. That's fine. I think you should do that in PMs, though, rather than publicly on the Web site you are trying to pull down. Just seems polite.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So, sort of a "here we go again" with you then, I take it.

that was seven years ago. so, no. But i can see the same thing happening here, unless-- it doesn't.I'd really rather it didn't.

And what I hear you saying is that you want to just haul your friends away to a new site. That's fine. I think you should do that in PMs, though, rather than publicly on the Web site you are trying to pull down. Just seems polite.

Why should I be "polite?" If fuckwads take advantage of "free speech" for their own enjoyment, I will take advantage of it for my own comfort.

And I'd prefer that you came along, too-- and xxsve, no matter what he's thinking about me right now. And DP.


But not Ami.

 

[sr71plt]

that was seven years ago. so, no. But i can see the same thing happening here, unless-- it doesn't.I'd really rather it didn't.Why should I be "polite?" If fuckwads take advantage of "free speech" for their own enjoyment, I will take advantage of it for my own comfort.

And I'd prefer that you came along, too-- and xxsve, no matter what he's thinking about me right now. And DP.


But not Ami.

Oh, I think there are times not to be polite. Trying for the practical, straightforward approach yesterday, I was thinking anything but "polite" as the answer to the problem.

I don't rule out posting on any forum that looks interesting to me.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Oh, I think there are times not to be polite. Trying for the practical, straightforward approach yesterday, I was thinking anything but "polite" as the answer to the problem.

Yes, and it was a good idea, I appreciated it and it isn't going to be acted on. Unfortunately. The owners of this site have made it clear over and over what they will do in these instances. They have done everything they're going to do.

The rest is up to us, as individuals or as a community. And as several people pointed out... we haven't created this community. There's very little power.

And we all know how Internet communities work. We're all familiar with the trolls. And it's maddening and unfair and mind-boggling not to be able to do anything about them.

I know you've been playing the "get your goat" game. I was too. For a while it was mildly entertaining in a sick sort of way, after I determined that they wouldn't listen to anything else. And I have to face that part of me, too. And I was, at one point, as were you, trying to impart some real information to people who seemed truly in the dark. I've done it with all of them, in many different ways, in their time here. I've seen you try it, too, to reach the part of these folks that might be in there and respond to real human interaction.

And I know you were hurt (even if you won't admit it) at some point or time - you can't get poked that often without a few sharp sticks getting through - and I hear that no one came to your aid.

But my god... if *I* can let it go... if I can say - enough. No more. I'm done with it. No more responding, no more poking the wild animals. Won't you?

 

[sr71plt]

Won't you?

Well, you see, everything is situational. And the goalposts keep changing. But you'll notice I haven't posted to "that thread" since you requested folks didn't. I don't see that it makes a difference--but you'll note I haven't, I hope.

 

[Darkniciad]

Ditto. Same expectation, but your asking is enough for me to stay out of the cesspool.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And sr71plt, you say something when you want backup, via post or PM. The hordes will pile on in your behalf with just as much gusto as for anyone else.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Well, you see, everything is situational. And the goalposts keep changing. But you'll notice I haven't posted to "that thread" since you requested folks didn't. I don't see that it makes a difference--but you'll note I haven't, I hope.

I did. I do. And honestly... I have NO problem with "virtual" ignore. There is a need for someone to keep at least one eye open. But as someone else said somewhere... you need to be aware and adult enough to know when the right time is to step in or step back. Me, I have poor impulse control... I don't trust myself to do it, to not be moved emotionally to respond. I trust you to be objective enough to do so. I trust others to as well.

But "ignore" is really the optimum word there, whether it's virtual or not.

 

[sr71plt]

I did. I do. And honestly... I have NO problem with "virtual" ignore. There is a need for someone to keep at least one eye open. But as someone else said somewhere... you need to be aware and adult enough to know when the right time is to step in or step back. Me, I have poor impulse control... I don't trust myself to do it, to not be moved emotionally to respond. I trust you to be objective enough to do so. I trust others to as well.

But "ignore" is really the optimum word there, whether it's virtual or not.

I understand. I'm pretty much from the "make them wonder what in the hell might happen to their next snarpy ploy" school of defense myself. Why should they be allowed to get comfy?

 

[Guest]

QUOTE omega post 173 What's infuriating about it is that when it got moved to AH in the first place, everyone protested to no avail.

Post 175 That fucking thread should never have been in this forum in the first place. Laurel ignored our protests when it was first placed here… Laurel, when she ignored our protests, was acting as if we had no sense of judgement, and deserved no respect. That's the way I see it.

Who do you really think you’re fooling? After reading a few of your posts from that time I certainly don’t see it that way.

I’d suggest you go to page 42 of the Scouries thread (this was the exact time period of the movement of the thread from SF to GB to AH) and read through the next four or five pages. You made quite a few posts on those pages miss o.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=515029&page=42

You seemed to be enjoying yourself immensely. While insulting the boss. Trying to rewrite history? You don't like the boss that's fine. But at least try to be honest about it.

Gabrielle L.

 

[Liar]

Open question: does moderation work?

Apparently too tricky to answer for the ones promoting it?

 

[NoJo]

I don't think moderation of posts is the issue, I think it's the preponderance of posts I don't want to see that's the problem -- and ignore is the best answer for me. I ignore people who in my opinion clutter up the threads with stuff I don't want to read -- even if they are not idiots, and are perfectly decent in their behaviour

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think moderation of posts is the issue, I think it's the preponderance of posts I don't want to see that's the problem -- and ignore is the best answer for me. I ignore people who in my opinion clutter up the threads with stuff I don't want to read -- even if they are not idiots, and are perfectly decent in their behaviour

I don't see the current problem as either of those. I see it as posters going beyond the pale of all decency in terms that any dolt can identify simply because they've been permitted to get away with it here.

I don't see the solution as being a "brain surgery" issue.

 

[jomar]

I don't think moderation of posts is the issue, I think it's the preponderance of posts I don't want to see that's the problem -- and ignore is the best answer for me. I ignore people who in my opinion clutter up the threads with stuff I don't want to read -- even if they are not idiots, and are perfectly decent in their behaviour

I practice and promote ignore too, and it works for me. You probably know, but just in case...the few threads about finding a new place, forum moderator and ignoring stem from a couple of posts that really did go out of bounds. Unquestionably vile and cruel. Something similar, questioning the truth of a claim (in a far more civil manner), also happened not too long ago and people got riled to no end, but things settled down. As a community we make it what we want here so we just need to be better. But seems to me it is as it ever was since I've been here.