a discussion thread about moderating this forum

[Selena_Kitt]

You mean anyone will be able to quote a post and say, that person is not worth replying to / should be ignored? I am sorry, but that will make this place insufferable. There are too many 'look at me' self-important egos in this place.

No. I'm saying NOT to quote them. Ever. And if someone DOES - someone who for some strange reason doesn't already have them on ignore - the response should be a quick something like, "Please do not quote so-and-so, the forum has them on ignore. "

I don't like it, to tell you the truth. I hate putting people on ignore, i hate the way the forum looks when I do, I've done it and then UNdone it and then just tempted myself to be an idiot and respond again when I knew I shouldn't have.

But there seems to be no other option. This forum will never be moderated. The owner are NOT going to take action. As a community, we have the power to make a decision. It's, in this case, I think, choosing the lesser of the evils and making the next best choice.

 

[damppanties]

Yes. I actually have a...very long ignore list. And I've just committed to certain people not ever coming off and not allowing my temptations to snipe allow my contributions to this community devolve into a fracas that disrupts the communal expectations of those people I care for here.

I've been advocating ignore. I'm actually veering away from any form of public execution and advising shunning.

To pass up the ignore button in favor of something more drastic before attempting ignore...really confuses me.

If the community insists on execution, I don't think it's enforceable, but I'm sure which side of that line I'm on. I don't break the forum rules and I won't show up for the ceremony to throw rotten fruit.

I'm not big on vengeance, it makes me tired.

I've been ignoring them for a long time now. I never go into their threads. I never talk to them.

It still affected me.

eta: Not execution. I am not calling for execution. I am saying that's one extreme that happens in the world. I am talking of removing individual posts.

 

[wmrs2]

Group epithets and personal attacks are equally hate speech, you know.

Again, there is no rule against hate speech, although I think it is unethical, no doubt. But to allow Stella to determine what hate speech is, is a greater sin than hate speech. Speaking of group epithets and personal attacks, Stella's speech rejecting these would be meaningful if she were not the master of such.

 

[Recidiva]

I've been ignoring them for a long time now. I never go into their threads. I never talk to them.

It still affected me.

eta: Not execution. I am not calling for execution. I am saying that's one extreme that happens in the world. I am talking of removing individual posts.

Well, if I felt very strongly I'd probably start a reference thread that proposed specific reasons for putting certain posters on ignore and then only post that link in response to anyone quoting them.

It requires no real disruption to a thread, it's more consistent than 50 people saying "Please don't do that" each time, it's more effective to have 50 people provide that link forever as its own self evident explanation.

Someone who wishes to read it and catch up on any AH "tradition" can do so. Someone who doesn't care, doesn't care.

But it relieves people of explaining constantly and allows a united front without one person feeling overly burdened to explain why each time.

 

[wmrs2]

Not quite equal to this, I don't think. Which is why if nothing is done this time, a barrier of trust has been breached, I think.

You just can't give it up, can you? Anybody curious to know what sr7 1plt is talking about, see the thread to which I have referred you. See if sr7 1plt was there trolling. See if Stella was acting like a lady being persecuted. Maybe then you will understand why so many want to give Stella a free pass.

 

[damppanties]

No. I'm saying NOT to quote them. Ever. And if someone DOES - someone who for some strange reason doesn't already have them on ignore - the response should be a quick something like, "Please do not quote so-and-so, the forum has them on ignore. "

Yes, I understood what you were saying but was not as clear in my response.

And I still say people would be self-important so-and-so's who would test the limit of who they consider to be on 'forum ignore' and who not.

I don't like it, to tell you the truth. I hate putting people on ignore, i hate the way the forum looks when I do, I've done it and then UNdone it and then just tempted myself to be an idiot and respond again when I knew I shouldn't have.

But there seems to be no other option. This forum will never be moderated. The owner are NOT going to take action. As a community, we have the power to make a decision. It's, in this case, I think, choosing the lesser of the evils and making the next best choice.

I know. I do.

I'm sorry, Selena, I am not trying to blow your house down. I truly want something to be done about this. I feel soiled too and cannot imagine how you are feeling. But I am trying to think with a clear head what would actually work and what wouldn't.

 

[Recidiva]

Get IrezumiKiss to make an AH Ignore banner.

Reminiscent of the "Shut the Fuck Up Miles" committee on the GB.

Only with more taste probably.

 

[wmrs2]

Well ,that's no fun, pure. What the injured want, here, is to be able to purge the site of turd-throwers, one by one, and seemingly not just purging their posts from the AH, but their every contribution-- posts, stories, poems, pics and PCs-- from the site as a whole. I have posted to moderated forums here at Lit, and found my whole thread moved to the GB. That sort of 'ban' isn't sufficient, I don't think, for the folks who are looking to change things.

As you suggest, this forum is not such a limited one that 'off topic' can be a criterion. Good, I say. In the real world, I am ACLU, and so I believe that no one's liberties are safe if the liberties of the pariahs are not safeguarded. Freedom is never free. I contribute hundreds and hundreds to ACLU, so I can testify wholeheartedly to that. So, in the real world, I can't support 'hate speech' legislation. The criterion is too fuzzy. People with agendas can sabotage the people who bring the society the unpleasant truths it needs to hear, if they can ban public discourse with a label as indefinable as that one. Hate speech can be whatever you dislike, can't it?

I agree with you Cantdog. There is a whole list of turd-throwers on my post. Check it out! With a philosophy like yours, hate speeches will be a thing of the past as soon at everybody that disagrees with us is kicked off the forum.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm sorry, Selena, I am not trying to blow your house down. I truly want something to be done about this. I feel soiled too and cannot imagine how you are feeling. But I am trying to think with a clear head what would actually work and what wouldn't.

I am totally up for other ideas. Houses don't get built with one contractor.

Diva's idea of a link is good. A banner? Why the hell not.

But please, let it be something. Please.

 

[xssve]

Scouries is a pathologically self involved egoist who enjoys stirring up hornets nests - it's purely a publicity stunt - I haven't read the post in question, but going by the buzz, and assuming it's accurate, it's why he made such a disturbing, callous, and distasteful accusation: "we always suspect of others what we know of ourselves" - he thought he was being upstaged, and was unable to discontinue his perpetual and upclose and personal prostate inspection long enough to empathize with another human being, big shock.

There's one in every crowd and it's practically normal in creative and political circles - I cannot imagine why his opinion on anything should bother anyone - he wants to be the center of attention without saying anything worth hearing - thus, even after two years, I don't need to be told to ignore him, I essentially have to make an effort to remember that he even exists - there are much more challenging viewpoints in here to ponder, I can't hate him, I wouldn't waste the energy: he's a blank spot - it's worked for me all this time, I don't see any reason to change it.

 

[scouries]

QUOTE sex and death The collective heart here is intelligent, feisty, kind, artful, sexy, passionate and generous …The community should have some volition in setting and enforcing boundaries based on collective (not necessarily shared) values…. I suggest you folks elect an odd numbered council (no less than three no more than seven) to act as a representative leadership body who will act as a mediator and moderator council within the forum for the forum members who agree to VOLUNTARILY particpate in and abide by the agreements it NEGOTIATES between parties and as an intermediary body taking concerns to the owners if they cannot be resolved in the AH.

I suggest the election take place in a separate thread where each person, alt or not (imperfect, but why bother trying to control the uncontrollable), who has been actively posting ("actively posting" will have to be defined) here for at least one year be allowed one PUBLICLY VOICED ballot with the number of votes eqaulling the number of representatives) which must be posted in the voting thread. I suggest one year terms with the next highest vote-getters in line if one or more of the elected representatives decides to leave or needs to be removed (don't know a practical removal process yet).

It will also inevitably cause factions, cliques, hard feelings, hurt feelings and new avenues of attack for people like this Scouries person and this Bostonfictionwriter person - but y'all should be used to that crap by now! : )

Gosh, now I'm teary-eyed with that old Schoolhouse Rock tune plaiyng in my head...We the people, in order to form a perfect union, establish justice and insure domestic tranquiliteee - eee - eeeeee...provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare aaa- and...

It’s hard to know where to start in addressing the above! The words “collective heart” and “collective values” only invoke thoughts of Orwellian Animal Farms.

The Council of Five (or 3 or 7) only to be elected by “actively posting” people who’ve been “around at least one year” and voters will have to “publicly vote”. And of course ALTS will be allowed to vote as long as they belong to the old folks. And we’ll remove any member of the council we don’t like. Huh?

I’d never heard or seen your name before you started this thread. By the way you introduced yourself (what if I’m serena’s husband?) I’m still not sure if you’re her husband or not.

Nor am I sure if you’d even be allowed to vote under your proposed system. Are you an “active poster”? I’ve never seen a post by you before.

I suspect you know what a “publicly voiced voting system” invariably leads to. Coercion and intimidation. Political correctness. A fear of expulsion. A huge thinning of the spectrum of views expressed. Opposing views trampled on. Dictatorship.

Just imagine, “Newbies” every post will be monitored while the Council Chairman, the elitist Mr. Pilot, pontificates (with all his ALTS how could he not be elected?).

Frankly pal your idea sucks!

james r scouries

author of:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/sarahhh_023/1DADDYIWHISPERED.jpg

 

[damppanties]

I am totally up for other ideas. House's don't get built with one contractor.

Diva's idea of a link is good. A banner? Why the hell not.

But please, let it be something. Please.

I agree.

I am thinking Diva's idea of a reference thread might work too. At least, not much harm in trying.

 

[Recidiva]

Scouries is a pathologically self involved egoist who enjoys stirring up hornets nests - it's purely a publicity stunt - I haven't read the post in question, but going by the buzz, and assuming it's accurate, it's why he made such a disturbing and distasteful accusation: "we always suspect of others what we know of ourselves" - he thought he was being upstaged, and was unable to discontinue his perpetual and upclose and personal prostate inspection long enough to empathize with another human being, big shock.

There's one in every crowd and it's practically normal in creative and political circles - I cannot imagine why his opinion on anything should bother anyone - he wants to be the center of attention without saying anything worth hearing - thus, even after two years, I don't need to be told to ignore him, I essentially have to make an effort to remember that he even exists - there are much more challenging viewpoints in here to ponder, I can't hate him, I wouldn't waste the energy: he's a blank spot - it's worked for me all this time, I don't see any reason to change it.

I don't think it's about hate. I think it's about notification.

The AH is very difficult for a new poster to comprehend or break into in any way. It's got a very complicated set of unwritten rules.

Writing a few of them down will help some folks.

 

[Recidiva]

I agree.

I am thinking Diva's idea of a reference thread might work too. At least, not much harm in trying.

It will at least give people who feel helpless with grievances they think should affect the community a place to go and express themselves, and it won't have to mess up every thread as long as those who feel strongly about it only reference the thread.

More reason, less emotion. More evidence, less witch hunt.

Though I predict witch hunt, just confined to that place and not running amok everywhere, which is in itself an improvement.

I think I'll nominate Le_Jacquelope. I'm in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This is like having a pile of shit in a room and saying, I will not remove it until you prove to me empirically that it smells bad. What is 'bad'? Who is it that makes the decision that shit smells bad and is offensive? If the person who's shitting in the room says it's his right to do it, you will allow it and let it remain?

At some point you have to see that too much leeway is to the detriment of the community and it is not, as you see, infringing upon the people who are here just to shit in the room. Really.


I see what you're saying. I understand it. That doesn't mean I still don't feel soiled by the shit that's living in these threads of this place I think of as mine.

All of this. I have had scouries, jbj, freddie on ignore forever. which means that jbj can and does say whatever he likes about me, which means that scouries can talk about turning lesbians into happy het bitches-- among other things--, and freddie can attack people i love.

How is that a solution? And why would i want to stay in the cesspit?

I don't know that the "ignore" function has truly been tested with the excrement in question. Perhaps it's time to truly police it, if that's what we want to do.

There are people here who, when a newbie comes in and says, "Hey, why can't I post a story about two fifteen year olds having sex?", jump immediately and reply, "Because the site owners say so, and they own the site, so deal" etc.

Perhaps we can have some such response every time someone forgets to use the ignore function and responds to the foul matter we're discussing? And of course, this wouldn't include their threads, since they'd already be on ignore... it would just include someone quoting/responding to the ignored, so others on the forum, who are using that blessed ignore feature, don't have to keep wading through?

Eventually... in theory... we wouldn't have to do it anymore, or we would be doing it much less often...

Of course, as I said, the theory hasn't ever really been tested. Too many people have (present company - nor myself - not excepted) been incited or tempted to respond, instead of taking the higher road.

Can we take the higher road? Can we, as a community, commit to doing so?

So many of us, selena, have been doing this. "The high road" is an illusion. It only works if the people being shunned care. These guys believe they have lurkers listening to them-- i know ami does. In their minds, they are not being shunned.

Yes, even just that.

I may suffer from reading too far into people's posts and giving them far too much credit at times, but I watch people get flogged over the most trivial of reasons and that's why I'm opposed to censorship.

I'm permitted to see the world through my rose-colored insight glasses as well and not be offended, but moved.

My contact with even the most horrific of human beings does more to move me toward compassion and pity for their self-inflicted isolation than I ever would have expected. I see them as lacking choice and options and being confined inside their own heads in ways I wouldn't inflict on anyone. I do understand that some have social rabies and must be put down. But I don't hate them. And I'd rather say a prayer over them than kick the dead corpse.

being bounced from the bar is not making a corpse out of someone. And I'd rather send my compassion-- which is, admittedly, limited-- on the people who can respond to sociability with sociability. I am not a a porn author's hangout, for crissakes, in order to make case studies out of ugly souls, I'm a a porn writer's hangout to celebrate life, and sex and porn and maybe get my virtual fingers into some beautiful woman's happy places.

I've been ignoring them for a long time now. I never go into their threads. I never talk to them.

It still affected me.

eta: Not execution. I am not calling for execution. I am saying that's one extreme that happens in the world. I am talking of removing individual posts.

and this is more good sense from dampy

 

[xssve]

I don't think it's about hate. I think it's about notification.

The AH is very difficult for a new poster to comprehend or break into in any way. It's got a very complicated set of unwritten rules.

Writing a few of them down will help some folks.

The thing about "unwritten" rules is that they're not really rules - nobody had to warn me, I recognize marketing spam when I see it - the only reason his thread is still up is because you people cannot resist the bait, and he probably does employ a couple of astroturfers to keep the thing bumped up. It's a big fucking yawn - it's a difficult time and perhaps it distracts from more painful thoughts, but does no-one have anything better to talk about?

 

[Recidiva]

The thing about "unwritten" rules is that they're not really rules - nobody had to warn me, I recognize marketing spam when I see it - the only reason his thread is still up is because you people cannot resist the bait, and he probably does employ a couple of astroturfers to keep the thing bumped up. It's a big fucking yawn - does no-one have anything better to talk about?

I started a thread.

If anything it can at least consolidate some things.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=30568110#post30568110

By the same logic, there's no reason NOT to have a place to talk about it if there really isn't something better to talk about.

 

[scouries]

QUOTE serena I don't know that the "ignore" function has truly been tested with the excrement in question. Perhaps it's time to truly police it, if that's what we want to do...

Perhaps we can have some such response every time someone forgets to use the ignore function and responds to the foul matter we're discussing? And of course, this wouldn't include their threads, since they'd already be on ignore... it would just include someone quoting/responding to the ignored, so others on the forum, who are using that blessed ignore feature, don't have to keep wading through?

Eventually... in theory... we wouldn't have to do it anymore, or we would be doing it much less often...Of course, as I said, the theory hasn't ever really been tested. Too many people have (present company - nor myself - not excepted) been incited or tempted to respond, instead of taking the higher road.

Can we take the higher road? Can we, as a community, commit to doing so?...

It would be a blessing to see the theory work, and the excrement a) talking/responding to themselves (they already are I hear... ) until they finally run out of steam; and b) eventually their threads dropping off the AH without ever being seen or responded to at all.

Policing ourselves, as far as I can see, is the only way to do so. Community pressure can be a powerful motivator….

No. I'm saying NOT to quote them. Ever. And if someone DOES - someone who for some strange reason doesn't already have them on ignore - the response should be a quick something like, "Please do not quote so-and-so, the forum has them on ignore. "

I don't like it, to tell you the truth. I hate putting people on ignore, i hate the way the forum looks when I do, I've done it and then UNdone it and then just tempted myself to be an idiot and respond again when I knew I shouldn't have.

But there seems to be no other option. This forum will never be moderated. The owner are NOT going to take action. As a community, we have the power to make a decision. It's, in this case, I think, choosing the lesser of the evils and making the next best choice.

More “collectivism”! So it could well be the other guy is your husband.

One of the interesting things about the above posts are that they sound like this is some new idea that’s just occurred to you. There’s no mention of the plotting you’ve been doing for the last three years against myself, sarahhh and lately Freddie.

I think it might be interesting for the community to be able to read (in chronological order) the e-mails and PMs you’ve sent over the years that included references to myself and/or sarahhh. Your “hate mail” as I like to characterize it. I suspect these “newbies” you wish to protect might have a slightly different opinion of you then.

At least you make no attempt to deny either the public posts you made on my thread or the intended ugliness of them. You poked and prodded and encouraged others to do the same. You love to call me “excrement” (was it you who suggested d.b. follow that line so long ago?) but remember, there’s also words for people who spend their days in it, trying to foam it up and spread it.

Yes dear, “Community pressure can be a powerful motivator”. And you of all people also know what it can be. There’s always been this duality to you serena, on the one hand the great defender of free speech, and on the other, the plotter, the manipulator who yearns to control. The boss.

james r scouries

author of:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/sarahhh_023/1MYGFMOM.jpg

 

[xssve]

Scouries thread has been moved to story feedback, it affects me in no way because I never paid any attention to him anyway, being an aficionado of neither incest stories nor turgid prose - I've read better.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Selena didn't have to tell me you're pond scum-- you make it perfectly obvious all on your own.

"Collectivism?" That's friendship you're looking at. Understandable that you can't recognise it.

 

[xssve]

Here we go, have fun.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Selena didn't have to tell me you're pond scum-- you make it perfectly obvious all on your own.

"Collectivism?" That's friendship you're looking at. Understandable that you can't recognise it.

oh even *I* resisted that one... come on, Stella. Don't make me post the link!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Scouries thread has been moved to story feedback, it affects me in no way because I never paid any attention to him anyway, being an aficionado of neither incest stories nor turgid prose - I've read better.

What's infuriating about it is that when it got moved to AH in the first place, everyone protested to no avail.

 

[Recidiva]

oh even *I* resisted that one... come on, Stella. Don't make me post the link!

*high5*

 

[Stella_Omega]

That fucking thread should never have been in this forum in the first place. Laurel ignored our protests when it was first placed here.


She finally relents when he insults a grieving mother, despite the hundreds of insults he'd already posted. You know how children that torture animals grow up to assault people? Same difference. Really, some of the things he said would have resulted in a ban on any forum I've ever been on, it doesn't take a Supreme court judge to notice how blatantly he'd overstepped the line.

Laurel, when she ignored our protests, was acting as if we had no sense of judgement, and deserved no respect. That's the way I see it.