a discussion thread about moderating this forum

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This has been fun!

We now return you to your dreary life and reruns of LAWRENCE WELK AND HIS CHAMPAGNE MUSIC MAKERS.

 

[cantdog]

Thank you, sr71plt You've put it beautifully.

And wyldfire, remember that "Free Speech" here does not include fictional beastiality or underage sex-- why should "Free Speech" include gratuitous hatefulness toward real people?

Bestiality and underage sex-- that's the stories, Stella. This is a forum. A forum on the internet. Why on earth would putting them on ignore not take care of it? Do you feel revenge is needed? When a spamming thread occurs here, it's reported and it goes away. What makes you certain reporting it would be futile?

 

[sr71plt]

What makes you certain reporting it would be futile?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe past history? Anyone know of this Web site banning someone from the forum for something like this before?

And in this case, I think it more effective to wipe them off the site altogether--stories and all. Put everyone in the place of knowing their whole existence here can be wiped out in the next 10 minutes for behavior this outrageous. Scare the bejezzus out of them.

And the way of everyone knowing that is to do it in this instance.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

My position, exactly.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Bestiality and underage sex-- that's the stories, Stella. This is a forum. A forum on the internet. Why on earth would putting them on ignore not take care of it? Do you feel revenge is needed? When a spamming thread occurs here, it's reported and it goes away. What makes you certain reporting it would be futile?

I know that reporting hate speech is futile. I'm asking that it no longer be futile.

I've already posted why putting them on ignore does not take care of it; because the turd is still there, no matter if you can see it or not.

And what sr71plt said.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thats it exactly. She has us on ignore but she knows we laugh at her and mock her in our posts, and she cant resist reading them.

 

[Sex and Death]

Gratitude, Thoughts, Suggestions

First, there are many kinds of love. Thank you for the love and support you have each and communally offered us as we go through our loss. It hits home strongly and my wife and I are grateful. I say this in this thread because I effectively (and wisely) censored myself from the two threads I recently posted.

The collective heart here is intelligent, feisty, kind, artful, sexy, passionate and generous. I watch and listen more than particpate here. I have a vested interest.

Community in cyberspace is no different at heart than in any other arena. Those that do not have the capacity to connect and serve, those that live life out of fear and therefore seek to propoagte fear, will harass and separate others out of their own reactionary infantile hurt and defensiveness. The community should have some volition in setting and enforcing boundaries based on collective (not necessarily shared) values. This community does no thave that power, which is why it's a waste of my time and energy to draw a boundary with this Scouries person or this Bostonfictionwriter person. They are small, angry and crippled men and they will continue to piss on pillows as long as the owners will let them do so.

That's the problem. There is common misconception that the owners place any kind of value or priority on community. All of the arguments and statements about community in this thread are true and heartfelt, yet they are a foreign language to the owners. Communities do not have owners, they have representative leadership of some form or another. This community has owners. Tough incongruency to resolve.

Owners care about profit and production before the well-being of individuals or communities. If there is action taken here or if there is no action taken here it is because a problem has either directly or indirectly impacted the bottom line of profit or production, or because that is the fear or perception.

There are marketing studies and statistics ad nauseum which clearly show that a vital social networking community, whether it be primary or secondary to a website, is directly related to traffic growth and profit growth. The sub-community here in the AH is just a tiny splinter of the real social networking demographic the owners want to capture, which is consumers of visual and interactive porn. In order for there to be real substantive change in the AH, whether that be through moderation of the forum or not, the owners would have to be convinced that the AH could impact their profits in some way.

I suggest you folks elect an odd numbered council (no less than three no more than seven) to act as a representative leadership body who will act as a mediator and moderator council within the forum for the forum members who agree to VOLUNTARILY particpate in and abide by the agreements it NEGOTIATES between parties and as an intermediary body taking concerns to the owners if they cannot be resolved in the AH.

I suggest the election take place in a separate thread where each person, alt or not (imperfect, but why bother trying to control the uncontrollable), who has been actively posting ("actively posting" will have to be defined) here for at least one year be allowed one PUBLICLY VOICED ballot with the number of votes eqaulling the number of representatives) which must be posted in the voting thread. I suggest one year terms with the nest highest vote-getters in line if one o rmore of the elected representatives decides o tleave or needs to be removed (don't know a practical removal process yet).

I suggest that the AH identify the ways it impacts Literotica's traffic and profits and respectfully utilize that information in bringing concerns to the owners.

Along with the obvious benefits, I have seen such strategies bring more participation and investment in community from individuals. One of the primary problems with this is that it requires some folks to commit more time than they were previously to the AH. It wil also inevtibaly cause factions, cliques, hard feelings, hurt feelings and new avenues of attack for people like this Scouries person and this Bostonfictionwriter person - but y'all should be used to that crap by now! : )

Gosh, now I'm teary-eyed with that old Schoolhouse Rock tune plaiyng in my head...We the people, in order to form a perfect union, establish justice and insure domestic tranquiliteee - eee - eeeeee...provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare aaa- and...

Anyway, I dunno...just a suggestion...might be worth it.

S&D

 

[shereads]

Bestiality and underage sex-- that's the stories, Stella. This is a forum. A forum on the internet. Why on earth would putting them on ignore not take care of it? Do you feel revenge is needed? When a spamming thread occurs here, it's reported and it goes away. What makes you certain reporting it would be futile?

The sickening post (now multiple posts) in question have been reported. We'll see.

This is one case where I may wind up agreeing with Stella that putting someone on Ignore would not have prevented the harm that was done. The person targeted should have had every reason to feel safe, reading every single post in what had been a string of condolences, even from trolls. It was like placing a particularly vicious trap in the path of someone who isn't thinking clearly enough to evade it.

That said, a forum monitor wouldn't have seen it coming either. Monitors aren't on the job 24/7.

I agree with sr7plt that the best solution would be for Laurel and Manu to block access for this twisted soul and his/her alts. Erase. Period. Other stalkers and crazies would think twice about risking Lit oblivion.

 

[shereads]

Anyone know of this Web site banning someone from the forum for something like this before?

I haven't seen anything like this before.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Until a couple years ago, no one was on my Ignore list. Now it's in use, not to help the AH but to keep my blood pressure down.

Speaking of Ignore & Report, there's a problem with that combination. Those of us who have the (insert obscenity) on Ignore, can count on missing most of the posts that need reporting.

This is strictly IMHO, but the free market system being what it is, until Manu and company believe they have more to lose by letting the (insert profanity) hang around than by kicking them out, nothing will happen.

Just one suggestion from a resident old fart: If there is to be a mod for the AH, it should be a temporary position, say three to six months or, at most, until the end of the year. If the joint still needs a mod at that time, then something else should be tried.

And in parting, let me remind you that tomorrow, those multi-tasking folks in Taiwan will be celebrating: Children's Day, Women's Day, Tomb Sweeping Day, and the Memorial Day of Chiang Kai-shek. Conduct yourselves accordingly.

The Right Rev Rumple Foreskin http://bestsmileys.com/religous/1.gif

 

[Stella_Omega]

I haven't seen anything like this before.

See, that's the problem with ignore. Because things like this have happened before, you just didn't see it.
This particular poster would have been banned a very long time ago, if there were any policy against hate speech- and then he wouldn't have had the chance to say anything to selena this time.

 

[cantdog]

The sickening post (now multiple posts) in question have been reported. We'll see.

This is one case where I may wind up agreeing with Stella that putting someone on Ignore would not have prevented the harm that was done. The person targeted should have had every reason to feel safe, reading every single post in what had been a string of condolences, even from trolls. It was like placing a particularly vicious trap in the path of someone who isn't thinking clearly enough to evade it.

That said, a forum monitor wouldn't have seen it coming either. Monitors aren't on the job 24/7.

I agree with sr7plt that the best solution would be for Laurel and Manu to block access for this twisted soul and his/her alts. Erase. Period. Other stalkers and crazies would think twice about risking Lit oblivion.

We can't expect Laurel to read the AH so closely as to monitor it herself.

But the AH has had a mod in the past, you tell us. Let's pick someone for the job, and PM Laurel about it, if you believe it necessary. If the poor moderator ticks off enough of us, she'll certainly receive plenty of feedback asking to remove him or her.

Alternatively, we can PM Laurel en masse to remove the person. It's technically feasible, I presume. Which course do the people who want something done prefer?

The very last time I posted to a moderated forum, my entire thread was 'placed in another forum.' I never went back. But that's me. I don't run the AH, I don't have preconceptions about what it's for. I just come here to meet the people I have come to love.

 

[wafflemtl]

I haven't seen anything like this before.

I have

 

[wmrs2]

This thread is bull shit. Stella and her troll friends are playing for sympathy from the over 1,000.000 members of this forum. The small number of post here proves that less than 1% of the membership cares about this issue. Recently, Stella put me on ignore. This was a happy day for me but because she put me on ignore and told the whole forum about it, it is my right of freedom of speech to tell you why this thread is bull shit.

When I joined the forum just a few days ago, I posted on the thread "Atheist", where I answered the question of OP asked. I am a theist and gave answers that atheist and liberals were expecting from innocent Christians and theist. The people who love to ridicule theist and conservatives came screaming at me, calling me all kinds of names and personally attacking me. One of the leaders of these trolls was Stella.

If there were monitors on the AH and if these monitors enforced rules forbidding one line comments and insults, Stella would have been banned from the forum within the first ten days I was a newbie. I was new to the forum but was experienced in dealing with reactionaries like Stella. If they are opposed, they want to take over the place and be the rule makers.

A trap was set for Stella and the rest of her troll friends on “Holier Than Thou Porn,” where only one person posted there that kept to the subject. The rest of the posters came from the Atheist thread for the specific purpose to ridicule me and make personal attacks. Check out the threads where Stella posted in reply to wmrs2. The facts are there, especially you who say you are concerned about freedom of speech, hate talk, and trolls.

I considered these people who came to my thread to cause trouble to be ruthless, which they were. So, a list of them was created and posted on the thread “Holier Than Thou Porn” and I labeled them all trolls and I repeated the story of the country preacher who compared telling the truth to throwing a rock into a pack of bitch dogs and the dog that was hit came out yipping. The trolls made fun of this too. But, I made a list of those who appeared on my thread who came in support of Stella and branded them as Red Ass Bitch Dogs (RABD) in honor of the rocked dog. If you were there to reply honestly to the thread, your name was left off the list of RABD

To make sure that I received the message from the trolls that said I was not welcome, Stella began to include on her signature a statement of mine:

"Get off my cross you little deviant from the norm." -wmrs2

Being insulted I put a few statements on my signature. You can read them below. Do so soon because it is my plan to take these statements down. I am working on being an easier target to insult but it is not my nature to be so humble. It will probably require a lot of patients from you if you want to cast a stone at me because I hate stone throwing by people who live in glass houses like Stella.
__________________

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not sure what your point is, but those quotes really prove my point.

 

[cantdog]

I have the mrs on ignore, too. I can sail through these threads without stress. I use it, ignore I mean, once I'm certain whoever it is has nothing to say. Why listen to a person say nothing, particularly if they say it offensively?

Yet for the first three years here I refused to use ignore as a point of pride, silly man that I was.

My problem with leaving the AH is, I love people here. About a dozen I love deeply. If they left, I would wish to follow where they went. If they remained, my lazy soul would bless them for making it easy for me to keep hearing their precious voices.

I live to express love. I live to serve. I live to help. Please, whatever happens here about this crime, if you go, and if i love you, tell me where to find you.

 

[shereads]

See, that's the problem with ignore. Because things like this have happened before, you just didn't see it.
This particular poster would have been banned a very long time ago, if there were any policy against hate speech- and then he wouldn't have had the chance to say anything to selena this time.

I didn't have that person on Ignore, Stella. Had never bothered reading him, is all.

The ones I put on Ignore (software Ignore) are the ones who typically show up in threads I enjoy and disrupt the debate by repeating nonsense we've all memorized by now, usually in defense of the beleaguered WASP heterosexual male capitalist and his superior American Values. They're what I thought you were referring to this morning when I first logged on and saw your New Forum thread. I object to censoring their impotent attempts at hate speech, for reasons I've already outlined (they would love it) and because I would be denied the right to hate them openly, in this forum.

As for this other creature: what he said/did had nothing to do with the social phenomenon I think of as hate speech, which is directed by groups against other groups (Amicus using the 'n' word or JBJ's gay baiting). He attacked an individual, at her most vulnerable. That kind of behavior doesn't need censorship. It needs erasure and banishment. It isn't likely to happen again if it's dealt with here and now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I didn't have that person on Ignore, Stella. Had never bothered reading him, is all.

The ones I put on Ignore are the ones who typically show up in threads I enjoy and disrupt the debate by repeating nonsense we've all memorized by now in defense of the beleaguered WASP heterosexual male capitalist and his superior American Values.

They're what I thought you were referring to this morning when I first logged on and saw your New Forum thread. I object to censoring their pathetic attempts at hate speech, for reasons I've already outlined (they would love it) and because I would be denied the right to hate them openly, in this forum.

As for this other creature: what he said/did had nothing to do with the social phenomenon I think of as hate speech (Amicus using the 'n' word or JBJ's gay baiting.) He attacked an individual AHer at her most vulnerable; that kind of behavior doesn't need censorship. It needs erasure and banishment.

Group epithets and personal attacks are equally hate speech, you know.

 

[sr71plt]

Group epithets and personal attacks are equally hate speech, you know.

Not quite equal to this, I don't think. Which is why if nothing is done this time, a barrier of trust has been breached, I think.

 

[shereads]

We can't expect Laurel to read the AH so closely as to monitor it herself.

But the AH has had a mod in the past, you tell us. Let's pick someone for the job, and PM Laurel about it, if you believe it necessary. If the poor moderator ticks off enough of us, she'll certainly receive plenty of feedback asking to remove him or her.

Alternatively, we can PM Laurel en masse to remove the person. It's technically feasible, I presume. Which course do the people who want something done prefer?

The very last time I posted to a moderated forum, my entire thread was 'placed in another forum.' I never went back. But that's me. I don't run the AH, I don't have preconceptions about what it's for. I just come here to meet the people I have come to love.

I'm not promoting the forum monitor. Just hoping that Laurel and Manu will decide to give the boot to the person who attacked our friend.

And if I ever go anywhere else for what I like about this place, I'm not telling you where to find me. I'm dragging you with me.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'm not promoting the forum monitor. Just hoping that Laurel and Manu will decide to give the boot to the person who attacked our friend.

And if I ever go anywhere else for what I like about this place, I'm not telling you where to find me. I'm dragging you with me.

May I come, too?

 

[slyc_willie]

Not quite equal to this, I don't think. Which is why if nothing is done this time, a barrier of trust has been breached, I think.

I agree. A great many people stand to be disenfranchised if Lit allows unsubstantiated attacks such as we've seen the last couple of days.

The one identity per ISP would be a good idea, too; otherwise, trolls could just make a new identity and ambush someone who would be unable to put them on ignore first.

Of course, that would mean me losing my Gabriel Daemon alt, but I could live with that. Not like I post much under that name, anyway.

 

[Stella_Omega]

trolls can be banned by IP. New handles can be banned the moment they disclose their intentions.
I have nothing against alts, got a few of my own although they're pretty dusty from disuse. An alt is as an alt does.

 

[wmrs2]

I'm not promoting the forum monitor. Just hoping that Laurel and Manu will decide to give the boot to the person who attacked our friend.

And if I ever go anywhere else for what I like about this place, I'm not telling you where to find me. I'm dragging you with me.

Me too. Can I get the people who attack my friends banned?

 

[cantdog]

trolls can be banned by IP. New handles can be banned the moment they disclose their intentions.
I have nothing against alts, got a few of my own although they're pretty dusty from disuse. An alt is as an alt does.

IP?? wha?? Man. What a wonderful place the net is. IP. Well then.