Gay men - I need you!

[voluptuary_manque]

Back when I was spending more time in art departments than in woodworking ones (long story, that, involving frustation with newly installed computer systems) I developed a lot of gay acquaintances. My wedding ring made my status obvious so we did a lot of 'palling around' and talking about art . . . and the female art students, as well. Yes, the gay guys were very gallant towards our distaff colleagues. The subject of sex never arose, at all, so I am among those who wonder about the "gay life-style". How much of it is real and how much stereotyped perception?

 

[Xelebes]

Oh, as for the original question - does having history in working in a gay bar sufficient enough for your needs?

Personally, I find a lot of it is limited to the bar and cruise scenes, save for the transvestites who make it their livelihood to be an exception to the rule.

 

[Liar]

However, as certain chemicals as well as parts of the brain are in play during the first part of any relationship, (meaning what attracts us to another person, and how we feel before, during and after sex with someone new), and these chemicals that come into play are often are different depending on gender, then I don't think it a stereotype to say that there may be a gay lifestyle as compared to a straight lifestyle, at least not when we're discussing singles on the prowl.

No it's not a steretyope per se. But I think it is more rooted in logistics than biology. It's a behavior forged out of nessecity. Nine out of ten men (or something like that) you randomly meet, are straight. You are ten times more likely to bump into a potentional partner than a gay man is. So to do something about that, there has emerged gay prowling spots, bars, clubs, events. the difference between thise and straight dittos are that sonce it's dexoted to a specific sexual behavior, there's little or no pretense as to what's going on. You don't go to the gay bar for just a beer. If you want a beer, there's easier ways to get it. You go there to check out ass. This makes the gay "mating" scene very direct and visible. Kind of like signing up to a dating site. You don't to it to check out the web design.

Are there chemicals and male and female characteristics and idiosyncracies that makes the dynamics different? Sure. But from what I can see, and mainly, from what I've experienced, the variations between individuals in this regard makes the variation in gender marginal.

But you know, I only speak from experience, so what do I know?

 

[Vermilion]

I sort of wonder what this "gay lifestyle" is. Something stereotyped, I take it?

As already stated, by 'gay lifestyle' I mean someone who has got out there and actually *been* gay, not someone who knows they're gay because they fancy men but has never done anything about it. If that's a stereotype then I'm stereotyping, but mostly I just want to talk to someone who's actually talking from experience.... which is why, with the greatest of respect, I'm not asking one of the truly excellent female writers who write gay erotica.

 

[3113]

No it's not a steretyope per se. But I think it is more rooted in logistics than biology. It's a behavior forged out of nessecity. Nine out of ten men (or something like that) you randomly meet, are straight. You are ten times more likely to bump into a potentional partner than a gay man is. So to do something about that, there has emerged gay prowling spots, bars, clubs, events. the difference between thise and straight dittos are that sonce it's dexoted to a specific sexual behavior, there's little or no pretense as to what's going on. You don't go to the gay bar for just a beer. If you want a beer, there's easier ways to get it. You go there to check out ass. This makes the gay "mating" scene very direct and visible. Kind of like signing up to a dating site. You don't to it to check out the web design.

But there you go, Liar. Unequivocally, there IS a gay lifestyle at least in THIS regard. Does it matter how or why it exists? I'll grant with no argument that if our population was 50% gay rather than 10% there might be little to no differences (men's locker room and toilets aside). But that's not the case. So, of necessity (and/or some gender chemicals), the "gay lifestyle" does exist.

Now I think we can all agree that it's very limited in scope. Two men in a committed relationship, raising kids in suburbia aren't likely to have a lifestyle that's any different from their straight neighbors, and that includes the kinks in their sex life. But for whatever reason, there has existed and still exists this particular difference when it comes to singles on the prowl.

We can take issue with the term "gay lifestyle" as being vague and misleading--I'm all agreement there as well--but if we're discussing singles on the prowl then a form of it would seem to exist.

 

[sr71plt]

But there you go, Liar. Unequivocally, there IS a gay lifestyle at least in THIS regard. Does it matter how or why it exists? I'll grant with no argument that if our population was 50% gay rather than 10% there might be little to no differences (men's locker room and toilets aside). But that's no the case. So, of necessity (and/or some gender chemicals), the "gay lifestyle" does exist.

Now I think we can all agree that it's very limited in scope. Two men in a committed relationship, raising kids in suburbia aren't likely to have a lifestyle that's any different from their straight neighbors, and that includes the kinks in their sex life. But for whatever reason, there has existed and still exists this particular difference when it comes to singles on the prowl.

We can take issue with the term "gay lifestyle" as being vague and misleading--I'm all agreement there as well--but if we're discussing singles on the prowl then a form of it would seem to exist.

There's a whole bunch of generalized gay lifestyles, just like there are a whole bunch of generalized straight, lesbian, bi, and asexual lifestyles.

Vermillion is too hazy on what she wants and what she wants it for. If she wants to write a gay story, she should specify the type of gay relationship/action she's going for. And if it's a story she's writing, she would be just as well off to do her own research by reading stories here that are in the realm of what she's considering writing--and/or do what some others do--write a story and ask an author of similar stories here to look at it and give advice.

The problem with that is that this site does not recognize that gay/lesbian/bi sex comes in as many categories as straight sex does. This site gives all sorts of category for straight, but only one each for gay and lesbian (and none, really for bi--try putting a bi story in the "Group" category and stand back for the negative PC response).

If Vermillion has a gay friend she's trying to figure out, this is an entirely different matter, of course.

We just don't know. The question is just too hazy to attract anyone except those who like to talk about it more than do it.

 

[3113]

Just to add, even if the percentage of gays had been enough to erase the necessity of gay cruising, there is one last difference that would, historically speaking if not in the present, have defined the gay lifestyle--has and still does, given that even the birth control pill isn't 100% reliable.

Babies.

A heterosexual encounter can lead to pregnancy. A gay encounter cannot. Pregnancy scares have, and likely always will, influence heterosexual hook-ups. The AIDS epidemic radically changed things for gay males especially, but prior to it, there was certainly a lifestyle that was very different from heterosexual encounters simply because there was never any risk of pregnancy.

 

[Vermilion]

Well I was hoping partially to make a friend who I could ask various questions of, as and when they arose, instead of having to create a thread each time I wanted to know something. As nobody seems willing I will ask my initial question here, please don't laugh.

Is anal penetrative sex the 'main act' in the same way that penetrative sex is in a het encounter? I mean, if you write ten het stories, sure, one or two of them might be mutual masturbation or oral sex, but at least 7 or 8 of them are going to be penetrative sex, right? is this the same in a male gay situation? if I write ten gay stories, are 7 or 8 of them going to be anal and the others a mix of what I consider to be foreplay?

I have similar questions about lesbian encounters (as I said, my own experience is limited) but I'm lucky enough to have several very chatty female friends of whom I can enquire. I'm not so lucky with the chaps.

Right. That's that for now.

I am doing other research, by the way, but since the majority of what's been written is fiction, I just wanted to check back and actually find out what peoples' experience was on this particular topic, without just taking the erotica's word for it.

x
V

 

[Many Feathers]

Back when I was spending more time in art departments than in woodworking ones (long story, that, involving frustation with newly installed computer systems) I developed a lot of gay acquaintances. My wedding ring made my status obvious so we did a lot of 'palling around' and talking about art . . . and the female art students, as well. Yes, the gay guys were very gallant towards our distaff colleagues. The subject of sex never arose, at all, so I am among those who wonder about the "gay life-style". How much of it is real and how much stereotyped perception?

It's interesting that I caught this. I recently posted one story called "Cumming Out", and another (not yet posted but soon should be)...called "Chums".

Now...though I am certainly not gay myself, I don't have a problem writing about it, and by request have done so. (Even more surprising to me, the request to have written Cumming out was not by a man, but a woman who wanted me to write a sort of gay story for her) So I did. Chums however is based (partially) on "boyhood" growing up experiences. And though obviously due to the 18 year old rule here at Lit, had to be modified in content, that (I think) typical early on exploration as described in this pending story, I do think is probably pretty close to what a lot of horny young adolescent males experience to one extent or another.

Anyway...give them a read, let me know what you think. So far, those who have tend to feel the story(s) are fairly close to a lot of familiar, similar situations.

I'd be curious to know what someone else might think, especially as they were written by a straight (though open-minded) guy as opposed to written by someone who is gay and has had actual experience as the story is written.

 

[Safe_Bet]

But there you go, Liar. Unequivocally, there IS a gay lifestyle at least in THIS regard. Does it matter how or why it exists? I'll grant with no argument that if our population was 50% gay rather than 10% there might be little to no differences (men's locker room and toilets aside). But that's not the case. So, of necessity (and/or some gender chemicals), the "gay lifestyle" does exist.

Now I think we can all agree that it's very limited in scope. Two men in a committed relationship, raising kids in suburbia aren't likely to have a lifestyle that's any different from their straight neighbors, and that includes the kinks in their sex life. But for whatever reason, there has existed and still exists this particular difference when it comes to singles on the prowl.

We can take issue with the term "gay lifestyle" as being vague and misleading--I'm all agreement there as well--but if we're discussing singles on the prowl then a form of it would seem to exist.

Of COURSE there is a "gay lifestyle." There is a whole damn queer society! In some parts of the country/world it may be fully or completely underground, as opposed to places like San Diego, LA or San Francisco where we have freakin' public parades, but it is still there.

When we go to a party the "10%" are 'token' straight people; we shop primarily at LGBT friendly stores and we party at a large variety of queer oriented clubs. It's normal, it's real and it's comfortable. It is getting to the point where I can admit that some of my best friends are straight people...

Now if you are saying that queers are more promiscuous than "straights".... probably.... but that only makes sense because the orientation is primary sexual in nature, so sex is a BIG part of it. It also is prolly more obvious because most queers have LESS hang ups about casual sex than your average Baptist in Peoria does. It is just part of their "lifestyle" and "society".

 

[sr71plt]

Safe-bet speaking for gay males? Yeah, right.

 

[sr71plt]

Is anal penetrative sex the 'main act' in the same way that penetrative sex is in a het encounter? I mean, if you write ten het stories, sure, one or two of them might be mutual masturbation or oral sex, but at least 7 or 8 of them are going to be penetrative sex, right? is this the same in a male gay situation? if I write ten gay stories, are 7 or 8 of them going to be anal and the others a mix of what I consider to be foreplay?

Yes, I'd say penetration was the main act for most. Possibly not quite as much as for a straight coupling, as, for a good many too, the oral is sufficient--and is also a penetration. But anal penetration completes the dominant/submissive, taking/giving, controlling/controlled, wanting/being wanted to the greatest degree.

I'd say 7 of 8 GM stories at Lit. arching at anal penetration is a good estimate. But I'd also say that Lit. stories meed to go further than anything in reality to gain the same arousal level in a reader than much less can gain in real life (or even in a video).

 

[Safe_Bet]

Safe-bet speaking for gay males? Yeah, right.

From Encarta - Homosexuality: sexual orientation toward people of the same sex. Homosexuality contrasts with heterosexuality, sexual orientation toward people of the opposite sex. People with a sexual orientation toward members of both sexes are called bisexuals (see Bisexuality). Female homosexuals are frequently called lesbians. In recent years, the term gay has been applied to both homosexual men and women.

The answer is - yup. I live openly is a LGBT lifestyle. I live in it with gay men, gay women, bisexuals and transgender people. I live it 24/7. I think I am imminently qualified to discuss "gay lifestyle."

Are you saying that "gay men" behave differently than gay women? It may be different if you are still "Larry Craig'ing" it under the bathroom stalls, but for those of us who no longer will allow ourselves to be kept in a closet, it is accurate.

BTW, your Bi, so can YOU speak of gay men?

 

[sr71plt]

The answer is - yup. I live openly is a LGBT lifestyle. I live in it with gay men, gay women, bisexuals and transgender people. I live it 24/7. I think I am imminently qualified to discuss "gay lifestyle."

Are you saying that "gay men" behave differently than gay women? It may be different if you are still "Larry Craig'ing" it under the bathroom stalls, but for those of us who no longer will allow ourselves to be kept in a closet, it is accurate.

BTW, your Bi, so can YOU speak of gay men?

The original posting (not to mention the thread title) specifies gay men.

No, I'll let you talk for bis--you seem to think you can talk for everyone.

 

[sr71plt]

But, OK, you guys and certainly return to discussing and speculating among yourselves.

 

[Vermilion]

Yes, I'd say penetration was the main act for most. Possibly not quite as much as for a straight coupling, as, for a good many too, the oral is sufficient--and is also a penetration. But anal penetration completes the dominant/submissive, taking/giving, controlling/controlled, wanting/being wanted to the greatest degree.

I'd say 7 of 8 GM stories at Lit. arching at anal penetration is a good estimate. But I'd also say that Lit. stories meed to go further than anything in reality to gain the same arousal level in a reader than much less can gain in real life (or even in a video).

Thank you.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The original posting (not to mention the thread title) specifies gay men.

No, I'll let you talk for bis--you seem to think you can talk for everyone.

um, SR... you've got a piece of toilet paper stuck to your shoe, dude...

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]Is anal penetrative sex the 'main act' in the same way that penetrative sex is in a het encounter? I mean, if you write ten het stories, sure, one or two of them might be mutual masturbation or oral sex, but at least 7 or 8 of them are going to be penetrative sex, right? is this the same in a male gay situation? if I write ten gay stories, are 7 or 8 of them going to be anal and the others a mix of what I consider to be foreplay?[...]
V

Actually, I asked a very similar question. What my friends say is that, at least in cruising spots, it's mostly oral. "If you want anal, then you'd have to do a prep, and make sure you have condoms... ", which is (I guess) the equivalent of shaving your legs. Something you might do for a date, but for a quick anonymous encounter, too much bother. Not that it doesn't happen, but the necessity of cleaning up makes butt sex less common in "public" areas.

Within a relationship, though, I don't know.

 

[Vermilion]

Actually, I asked a very similar question. What my friends say is that, at least in cruising spots, it's mostly oral. "If you want anal, then you'd have to do a prep, and make sure you have condoms... ", which is (I guess) the equivalent of shaving your legs. Something you might do for a date, but for a quick anonymous encounter, too much bother. Not that it doesn't happen, but the necessity of cleaning up makes butt sex less common in "public" areas.

Within a relationship, though, I don't know.

Thank you - that's helpful, and something to consider.

 

[Liar]

Of COURSE there is a "gay lifestyle." There is a whole damn queer society! In some parts of the country/world it may be fully or completely underground, as opposed to places like San Diego, LA or San Francisco where we have freakin' public parades, but it is still there.

Keyword: queer.

A large number of the people who embrace queer culture, are gays. But not all. And far from all gays do.

 

[3113]

we shop primarily at LGBT friendly stores and we party at a large variety of queer oriented clubs. It's normal, it's real and it's comfortable. It is getting to the point where I can admit that some of my best friends are straight people...

Now if you are saying that queers are more promiscuous than "straights".... probably.... but that only makes sense because the orientation is primary sexual in nature, so sex is a BIG part of it.

It's so not fair! Nice neighborhoods *and* lots of sex!

(Do you know that West Hollywood has one of the nicest Trader Joes in L.A.? Not to mention the most amazing hardware store and no, that isn't meant as a pun. So unfair!)

 

[Liar]

Yes, I'd say penetration was the main act for most. Possibly not quite as much as for a straight coupling, as, for a good many too, the oral is sufficient--and is also a penetration. But anal penetration completes the dominant/submissive, taking/giving, controlling/controlled, wanting/being wanted to the greatest degree.

It's also pretty much common in dynamically equal relationships. In a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours " kind of way. Then it's more a question of who goes first. Or who's up for what that day.

I'd agree that it's the norm, Vermillion. But less "normy", if you will.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Keyword: queer.

A large number of the people who embrace queer culture, are gays. But not all. And far from all gays do.

Yes, I see modern "queer" culture as something more female-driven, and some of my (few, sadly) gay friends who go back to pre-AIDs times seem to view it as sort of a johnny-come-lately to their own stories. There was a distinctly different sexual revolution for gay men that was coincident with "women's lib", but not a part of it, and then gay culture took an enormous hit with AIDS that has no corollary in the lesbian community. I've rarely heard gay men talk about things like "sexual politics" - they are men, after all, and haven't experienced "gender" discrimination in quite the same way that women have. Closeted gays have still been able to rise to powerful positions without the glass ceiling women have had to contend with, so long as they kept their sex lives on the DL. So, while lesbians have sort of hitched their liberation to the broader feminist movement, gay men haven't had the experience of liberating their whole gender along with liberating their sexual orientation.

 

[3113]

It's also pretty much common in dynamically equal relationships. In a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours " kind of way. Then it's more a question of who goes first. Or who's up for what that day.

Yet there still is a loooong time gay male social taboo regarding who tops and who bottoms (and granted, this is again thanks to them being the persecuted 10% of the population with Heterosexuals defining terms). The rule in ancient Rome was that gay sex was fine so long as no Roman male was penetrated. He could only do the penetrating (it's what you did to your enemies to prove yourself the victor). That ancient rule spread with the Empire and made for a long history of weird sexual dynamics between gay men--the dominant one penetrates. And if you're penetrated, you're the, well, girl.

There still exists the argument that a man who does the penetrating rather than being penetrated (ditto for oral sex, if they're getting not giving it), is not gay. It was commonly accepted that men in prison who had sex with other men would go right back to women once out--that they weren't gay, just in need. But that's actually being shown to be bogus. Many men in prison who engage in sex, giving or receiving, are either bi or closeted gay men. It's been found that a lot of them keep having gay sex once out of prison.

The point is, while this top/bottom distinction has been vanishing, it still persists. That's why some men need that envelop of cash before they'll take that position.

I also agree, by the way, that this is the "main act" not only because it's the slot that is there, but because of male anatomy. That is where the prostate resides. Anal sex between men is all about bumping and stimulating that gland.

 

[3113]

So, while lesbians have sort of hitched their liberation to the broader feminist movement, gay men haven't had the experience of liberating their whole gender along with liberating their sexual orientation.

That's a really excellent point. And the worst thing about it is that the AIDS epidemic really did derail where ever that movement, such as it was, might have been going. It's one of the most terrible and shameful periods of modern history that AIDS was labeled a "gay" disease rather than a sexual disease, and that the government and most of the U.S. used that definition to excuse their dismissal of it.

A country that shows a portion of its citizens that it hates them enough to let them die pushes such people underground or into militancy. Gay men, forced into one or the other in order to survive, were pushed in directions by society, rather than deciding where they wanted to go.