Why are they so many American Jews here?

[JMohegan]

Okay, at the risk of opening an even bigger can of cultural worms, but hopefully displaying the emotional point to the debate...

The North did not experience wholesale destruction of entire cities and destruction of the way they lived their lives. Regardless of how those lives were lived, let's put that aside for a moment, because that's the intellectual component the North puts on it. Northerners put the war in terms of ideology.

Southerners put the war in terms of what was lost.

So if you think Iraqis for 150 years are not going to remember that their Capitol was looted and don't really give a damn that it might have been a righteous cause...the people they lost and the culture that was looted...no longer belongs to them and some of them are going to be still very angry and not give a damn that there was any REASON or CAUSE.

We're talking about emotional and painful "destruction of beloved heritage" issues.

Yankees THINK about this as history. Southerners FEEL about this as an unhealed historical wound that gets more grit dug into it by the Northern smug knowledge that EVERYONE in the south was wrong and racist. What the Southerners remember is that their family farm was burned to the ground, their families were killed, starved and thrown off their land, humiliated and disenfranchised.

Presumably, you are referencing only white southerners here.

How do the African American southerners feel about this?

 

[intothewoods]

That is more-or-less correct. My roots are in Kansas, and I live in Kansas now, but when I visit cities like San Francisco, DC, Portland, Seattle I feel more at home. The "cosmopolitan" of some big cities calls to me. (then there is the very special way I feel about Santa Fe and Taos NM)

I lived in Sacramento CA for a while - it is much like Wichita Kansas - only with 3,000,000 people vs 400,000. In some ways the huge Central Valley of California is much like Kansas - and that is why I was successful as a sales manager there, I could talk their language - and I was miserable.

As you can see I'm of several minds.

Me too.

This went right over my head.

There are a couple of Chicken and Waffle restaurants, one is a big chain, and it became very trendy in Los Angeles. I thought it was in other places too, but maybe it was just a California thing.

 

[JMohegan]

There are a couple of Chicken and Waffle restaurants, one is a big chain, and it became very trendy in Los Angeles. I thought it was in other places too, but maybe it was just a California thing.

If I've seen one, I don't remember it. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Homburg]

Not to say there isn't racism, don't get me wrong. But the South is frank about its racism and covert about everything else. The North is frank about everything else and covert about its racism. (please do not take this literally. poetic license stamped here.) Northeners think southerners are slow and stupid, southerners think northeners are rude and abrupt.

The nastiest rascism I've ever seen (well, in America) was in a small town in Pennsylvania.

It wasn't any prettier though to watch Northerners go rabid when accusing Southerners all of being stupid racist dupes.

So MIS was down here for a visit, and we went to Chick-fil-a, as she'd never been. We get there, and there's a woman in her 50's sweeping the floor, and she opens the door for us with a smile and an honestly friendly greeting. MIS mentioned how that wouldn't happen in NY, and I said it's just how things are done here. Later, I asked the same lady if she had a couple of rubber bands I might have (needed to fix something in the car) and she smiled and hurried off. She came back a few minutes later with a few rubber bands, and then flat would not let me take the tray with our trash to the trash can. MIS was purely stunned by all this, especially when I told her that the lady in question was the store manager ( saw her pic on the wall).

We do things differently down here. She wasn't being servile. She was being a good host.

That said, one of the nicest and friendliest people I've ever chatted with was an old lady that I stopped in Queens to ask direction. She called my (minimally) southern accent adorable and gave me perfect directions. She was the sweetest thing. It has been my experience that people in NY and even NJ are usually very nice to me in conversation. I smile, am polite, and say please and thank you. This causes them to pause, as I guess they're not used to it, but then they are friendly and polite as well. *shrug*

--

Referencing my comment about the percentage of southern white democrats and white independents who voted for Obama, compared to the percentage of those in the same demographic in the country at large last November - is there a plausible reason other than disparate levels of racism for this gap? I'm sincerely asking.

Tough question. Honestly, I've lived all over this country. And, as I've said before, I've seen less evidence of racism in the attitudes of the people of the south than I have in the northeast. Not saying that the impact is not there, but that it is not as present. And as plenty of people have noted, the South may seem racist, but our neighbourhoods are FAR more integrated than you see in many other regions.

Still, i don't think one could honestly deny that race did play a major issue in the recent election.

I understand your point about cherishing lost roots and the War of Northern Aggression, but I honestly can't fathom people sending their kids to the pool with a confederate flag towel a hundred and fifty years after the fact. Okay, the confederacy wasn't all about "yeah for slavery", but surely there's value in teaching the next generation why that symbol might be deeply offensive to large chunks of the southern populace.

For the record, I don't think all southerners are slow and stupid, and it's absolutely true that many northerners are rude and abrupt.

Eh, is there value in raising your kids to be rude and scream at people in traffic? Is there value in raising your kids to be anti-semitic? Is there value in raising them to hate homosexuals?

It is not so much about tolerance, desire to not offend, or anything else. It is the normal knee-jerk passing on of the values that were perpetrated by your own parents. Yes, some people can transcend the questionable values of their parentage, but most do not. This is why boys that I went to school with in PA were mindlessly rascist against blacks and jews. Ignore the fact that not a one of them had had meaningful contact with any of the three black people or zero jews in town, nor had anyone in their immediate family. They hated blacks and jews because they hated blacks and jews. That was just how things were done there. And when I questioned these otherwise intelligent (so I thought) lads on why they wanted to beat up the black man that was walking on the edge of campus, I was met with blank, confused stares.

The people that buy those confederate flags aren't telling their kids that blacks should be slaves. They are passing on the culture that was passed to them. It may be objectionable to you, but it is a source of pride to them. And, when you focus, as they do, on the positive side of it, why would they not be proud? The southern mentality respects self-reliance, willingness to stand up for what you believe in, the warrior culture, and a bit of fuck-you-I-won't-do-what-you-tell-me. These values are embodied by the confederate battle flag in the eyes of those what support that imagery.

Personally, I respect their right to express themselves in that manner. I just want to see it out of state flags, state symbols, not flown on the capitol buildings of southern states, etc. While I consider it an acceptable marker of a given culture, it is not a marker that I want to see We The People paying for and supporting.

 

[Recidiva]

Presumably, you are referencing only white southerners here.

How do the African American southerners feel about this?

I don't know, man, I am not related to everyone.

 

[JMohegan]

Tough question. Honestly, I've lived all over this country. And, as I've said before, I've seen less evidence of racism in the attitudes of the people of the south than I have in the northeast. Not saying that the impact is not there, but that it is not as present. And as plenty of people have noted, the South may seem racist, but our neighbourhoods are FAR more integrated than you see in many other regions.

Still, i don't think one could honestly deny that race did play a major issue in the recent election.

You & I have had a conversation about PA on the Hilary thread, so I know we're roughly on the same page here in the sense that racism exists everywhere, most definitely.

The thing about an election is - you're behind that curtain. No one's ever gonna know whether you, as an individual, were willing to pull the lever for the black guy, or not. But collectively, the voting results for the states are what they are, and it seems to me that the comparison is very telling.

 

[Recidiva]

The nastiest rascism I've ever seen (well, in America) was in a small town in Pennsylvania.

So MIS was down here for a visit, and we went to Chick-fil-a, as she'd never been. We get there, and there's a woman in her 50's sweeping the floor, and she opens the door for us with a smile and an honestly friendly greeting. MIS mentioned how that wouldn't happen in NY, and I said it's just how things are done here. Later, I asked the same lady if she had a couple of rubber bands I might have (needed to fix something in the car) and she smiled and hurried off. She came back a few minutes later with a few rubber bands, and then flat would not let me take the tray with our trash to the trash can. MIS was purely stunned by all this, especially when I told her that the lady in question was the store manager ( saw her pic on the wall).

We do things differently down here. She wasn't being servile. She was being a good host.

That said, one of the nicest and friendliest people I've ever chatted with was an old lady that I stopped in Queens to ask direction. She called my (minimally) southern accent adorable and gave me perfect directions. She was the sweetest thing. It has been my experience that people in NY and even NJ are usually very nice to me in conversation. I smile, am polite, and say please and thank you. This causes them to pause, as I guess they're not used to it, but then they are friendly and polite as well. *shrug*

Tough question. Honestly, I've lived all over this country. And, as I've said before, I've seen less evidence of racism in the attitudes of the people of the south than I have in the northeast. Not saying that the impact is not there, but that it is not as present. And as plenty of people have noted, the South may seem racist, but our neighbourhoods are FAR more integrated than you see in many other regions.

Still, i don't think one could honestly deny that race did play a major issue in the recent election.

Eh, is there value in raising your kids to be rude and scream at people in traffic? Is there value in raising your kids to be anti-semitic? Is there value in raising them to hate homosexuals?

It is not so much about tolerance, desire to not offend, or anything else. It is the normal knee-jerk passing on of the values that were perpetrated by your own parents. Yes, some people can transcend the questionable values of their parentage, but most do not. This is why boys that I went to school with in PA were mindlessly rascist against blacks and jews. Ignore the fact that not a one of them had had meaningful contact with any of the three black people or zero jews in town, nor had anyone in their immediate family. They hated blacks and jews because they hated blacks and jews. That was just how things were done there. And when I questioned these otherwise intelligent (so I thought) lads on why they wanted to beat up the black man that was walking on the edge of campus, I was met with blank, confused stares.

The people that buy those confederate flags aren't telling their kids that blacks should be slaves. They are passing on the culture that was passed to them. It may be objectionable to you, but it is a source of pride to them. And, when you focus, as they do, on the positive side of it, why would they not be proud? The southern mentality respects self-reliance, willingness to stand up for what you believe in, the warrior culture, and a bit of fuck-you-I-won't-do-what-you-tell-me. These values are embodied by the confederate battle flag in the eyes of those what support that imagery.

Personally, I respect their right to express themselves in that manner. I just want to see it out of state flags, state symbols, not flown on the capitol buildings of southern states, etc. While I consider it an acceptable marker of a given culture, it is not a marker that I want to see We The People paying for and supporting.

I agree with you here. Again, my poetic license is only taking some broad strokes and I don't actually ascribe to any of the attitudes I'm describing, just giving my take on what I think causes continued stereotype and behavior patterns to persist when they go negative.

The genuine, thoughtful, hospitality and acceptance of everyone sheltered under one roof is one of those legacies my Southern relatives provided.

This is not to say I wasn't a little Yankee when it suited me. I think my eldest Great Uncle who was the Patriarch if there ever was one...never let me carry my own bag, though he was nearing 90. When I was seven, though, he got me in a room alone and asked me conversationally "So, do you all have a nigger problem up north?"

To which I responded looking him straight in the eye "Actually, where I come from, most of 'em are doctors and lawyers."

He stared at me for a moment and then dropped the subject entirely. Although I overheard stuff that made me want to throttle adorable little old ladies with antiquated thought patterns...I was never ever corrected or argued with on the subject. I got to feel like I was a lance-wielding Yankee slicing through the bonds of oppression, even when I was seven.

And my Patriarchal racist uncle gave more money toward African-American charities than I will ever even SEE in a lifetime.

And he had a dedicated, adoring black housekeeper and cook, Camille, who worked for him every day of his life and still won't give me her recipes. Bitch. SHE wanted to protect him from his uppity Yankee relations who were no better than they should be, couldn't cook a roux and didn't appreciate the china. He made sure she and her family were cared for every step of their lives.

So the possibility to be a good, gracious and honestly caring person, WHILE being a rabid racist...well, I've seen it.

 

[WriterDom]

It's not waffles, it's the Waffle House. Some things you just have to experience. Like grits.

One at every exit. As you get close to Atlanta there is one exit that has one on each side of the road. And then there is Huddle House, a spin off copycat. I'm not recommending you eat there unless it's 2am in the morning and your drunk. And they don't sell a lot of waffles but you can get breakfast 24/7. Everyday. Even Christmas.

The waitress will probably call you "Honey." Don't be alarmed. It's a southern thing as well.

 

[Recidiva]

It's not waffles, it's the Waffle House. Some things you just have to experience. Like grits.

One at every exit. As you get close to Atlanta there is one exit that has one on each side of the road. And then there is Huddle House, a spin off copycat. I'm not recommending you eat there unless it's 2am in the morning and your drunk. And they don't sell a lot of waffles but you can get breakfast 24/7. Everyday. Even Christmas.

The waitress will probably call you "Honey." Don't be alarmed. It's a southern thing as well.

Oh! That's another culture clash.

Being called "ma'am" or "sir" is a Southern respect thing.

But if you do it to a Yankee it's assumed you're insulting their age or being somehow covertly rude.

It's the damnedest thing.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't know, man, I am not related to everyone.

Fair enough.

I was just sitting here realizing that my view of what's "southern" is defined by my perception of the attitudes of most (not all, most) whites in the region.

Huckabee/Palin fans, and "democrat but no way I'm voting for a black guy" types - in larger numbers than those that exist in the white American populace overall. After reading your compelling summary of long-standing emotions, I'll add: deep, heartfelt resentment toward northern descendants of the invading army in the War of Aggression.

And it occurred to me that surely there's a huge segment of that which could be defined as "southern" that I'm leaving out. Not just the minority of whites who aren't Palin fans, etc. But the very significant chunk of the population that has roots on the short end of the Plantation Heritage Gone With the Wind stick.

 

[JMohegan]

It's not waffles, it's the Waffle House. Some things you just have to experience. Like grits.

One at every exit. As you get close to Atlanta there is one exit that has one on each side of the road. And then there is Huddle House, a spin off copycat. I'm not recommending you eat there unless it's 2am in the morning and your drunk. And they don't sell a lot of waffles but you can get breakfast 24/7. Everyday. Even Christmas.

The waitress will probably call you "Honey." Don't be alarmed. It's a southern thing as well.

I'm the kind of guy who goes to the Illinois State Fair and has to find the International Tent in order to locate something he'd actually eat.

International Tent aside, they sell things like deep fried corn dogs and deep fried snickers bars there. I'm not making this up.

Comparatively speaking, a proliferation of waffle houses doesn't sound so bad. I don't think I've ever had real grits.

Addressing non-intimates as "honey" and "darlin" - yes! That's something I think of as southern, no doubt.

 

[Homburg]

There are a couple of Chicken and Waffle restaurants, one is a big chain, and it became very trendy in Los Angeles. I thought it was in other places too, but maybe it was just a California thing.

Rosco's Chicken and Waffles = yum.

I was out in LA on business for a few weeks, and a friend from high school was living out there working on some TV show. He tells me that we need to eat at Roscos so I go with him. We walk into this dingy little place with no AC and slow ceiling fans everywhere, and I'm trying to decide if the ambience was carefully crafted or legit. Another mutual high school friend was out there for the weekend, and he is this whiter-than-white guy with skin the color of notebook paper, hair like golden wheat, and green eyes. I'm my muddled self, and the other guy is an olive-toned cat of armenian descent. My buddy G leans over to me and whispers "I feel, very, very white."

I didn't feel out of place at all, and had a cheerful conversation with the waiter on food options. G had lived in VA as long as I had, but had never eaten anything remotely close to country food (or "soul food" as the menu called it). I grew up on the stuff, so I wound up giving him advice on what to get while our other friend ordered something typical and trendy. G decided then and there that buckwheat waffles were a gift from the gods, and bought a waffle iron when he got home.

The food was good. I would go back.

But I still miss Po' Folks. Damned good eats.

Oddly enough, my dad related a story of the same sort of thing. When he first joined the army and was stationed on Ft Bragg, he got on well with soldiers of diverse racial backgrounds. One of his black friends (from some northern city) decided that he needed to have some "soul food", and cheekily took my dad to some seedy place in the absolute worst section of town. Dad gets the menu and announces loudly (in his then much more prominent hillbilly accent) "This ain't soul food. It's just ole home food!" Everybody in the place laughed, and he wound up going back regularly.

(JM, there might be some useful observations on southern culture in these anecdotes. Not sure if they help you to get an idea of the mindset or not)

 

[Recidiva]

Fair enough.

I was just sitting here realizing that my view of what's "southern" is defined by my perception of the attitudes of most (not all, most) whites in the region.

Huckabee/Palin fans, and "democrat but no way I'm voting for a black guy" types - in larger numbers than those that exist in the white American populace overall. After reading your compelling summary of long-standing emotions, I'll add: deep, heartfelt resentment toward northern descendants of the invading army in the War of Aggression.

And it occurred to me that surely there's a huge segment of that which could be defined as "southern" that I'm leaving out. Not just the minority of whites who aren't Palin fans, etc. But the very significant chunk of the population that has roots on the short end of the Plantation Heritage Gone With the Wind stick.

I think that's all I'm getting at. Northern attitudes (I was raised in the north) are often determined by Northerners, not actual exposure to large groups of Southeners who aren't tourists.

I was related to both so I got to see...hey, they're just people.

To compare it to another cultural schism...insular straight attitudes regarding "what makes a gay person" only usually compares to the sore-thumb sticking-out stereotype. The stereotype gets enforced, and it's only blown by being open enough so the more subtle variation makes itself known.

And if you're notoriously outspoken on a subject and unwilling to get to know a culture by immersion in it - you're only going to see the negative when it's picked out.

"I hear someone with a New Jersey accent" stereotypes further New Jersey people. The soft-spoken Princetonite isn't identified as a New Jersey person. A New Jersey person's tiredness with the stereotype makes them want to "pass" as someone from Connecticut.

 

[WriterDom]

Presumably, you are referencing only white southerners here.

How do the African American southerners feel about this?

Their wounds are probably fresher with segregation. I didn't go to school with black kids until the 5th grade. And still remember them having to sit in the balcony at the movies. There was still racism under the surface in the 70s. You didn't find black families in white neighborhoods. The football coach was asked about one of the players and said, "Well, he's just a nigger." Our golf coach got a letter saying if we had any blacks not to bring them because they wouldn't be allowed on the course. I'm not sure they said blacks. I just remember the golf coach calling a meeting and reading us the letter and making a joke out of it.

Things have changed a lot though in 30 years. Black and white kids playing together. No one looks twice at interracial dating or marriage. People to me seem to treat each other with respect.

 

[JMohegan]

Their wounds are probably fresher with segregation. I didn't go to school with black kids until the 5th grade. And still remember them having to sit in the balcony at the movies. There was still racism under the surface in the 70s. You didn't find black families in white neighborhoods. The football coach was asked about one of the players and said, "Well, he's just a nigger." Our golf coach got a letter saying if we had any blacks not to bring them because they wouldn't be allowed on the course. I'm not sure they said blacks. I just remember the golf coach calling a meeting and reading us the letter and making a joke out of it.

Things have changed a lot though in 30 years. Black and white kids playing together. No one looks twice at interracial dating or marriage. People to me seem to treat each other with respect.

My initial image of the south was framed watching TV as a kid. A place of great violence, with white people doing the beating and black people getting beaten up. Or spit on, hosed, or hanged. Heroes in my world (many black, some white from the north) tried to intervene to stop the insanity, and got beaten to death or shot for their trouble.

The first presidential candidate I ever voted for was Carter. I remember being stunned at my own willingness to vote for a southern white man. I know you think he was crap as a president, WD, and in many ways I'd agree. But from where I was sitting, his fundamental and really obvious decency went a long way toward improving my view of your state.

 

[Homburg]

You & I have had a conversation about PA on the Hilary thread, so I know we're roughly on the same page here in the sense that racism exists everywhere, most definitely.

The thing about an election is - you're behind that curtain. No one's ever gonna know whether you, as an individual, were willing to pull the lever for the black guy, or not. But collectively, the voting results for the states are what they are, and it seems to me that the comparison is very telling.

I have to agree. That is an area that is quite telling. As the saying goes, Character is what you are when no one is looking. And I have to say that I am proud of Virginia for voting conviction, not color. Also more than a little bit surprised.

--

He stared at me for a moment and then dropped the subject entirely. Although I overheard stuff that made me want to throttle adorable little old ladies with antiquated thought patterns...I was never ever corrected or argued with on the subject. I got to feel like I was a lance-wielding Yankee slicing through the bonds of oppression, even when I was seven.

Ha! I had the exact same feeling! Though, well, I was fourteen or fifteen and in Pennsylvania at the time. I have faced down racism in the South. No ignoring that it didn't exist, of course, and felt like an outsider there too. I think it is so tied to the culture that you will feel like an outsider regardless. "How can you be from here and think that way?"

And my Patriarchal racist uncle gave more money toward African-American charities than I will ever even SEE in a lifetime.

And he had a dedicated, adoring black housekeeper and cook, Camille, who worked for him every day of his life and still won't give me her recipes. Bitch. SHE wanted to protect him from his uppity Yankee relations who were no better than they should be, couldn't cook a roux and didn't appreciate the china. He made sure she and her family were cared for every step of their lives.

So the possibility to be a good, gracious and honestly caring person, WHILE being a rabid racist...well, I've seen it.

I think this sort of thing is likewise endemic of life in the south. Old white lady might say she can't stand heathen negroes, but if you ask her about her black neighbour, she'll say "Oh, Charlene is so nice. She's not like them." It is a dichotomy that won't be shaken.

--

It's not waffles, it's the Waffle House. Some things you just have to experience. Like grits.

One at every exit. As you get close to Atlanta there is one exit that has one on each side of the road. And then there is Huddle House, a spin off copycat. I'm not recommending you eat there unless it's 2am in the morning and your drunk. And they don't sell a lot of waffles but you can get breakfast 24/7. Everyday. Even Christmas.

The waitress will probably call you "Honey." Don't be alarmed. It's a southern thing as well.

Covered, smothered, topped, and chunked. Double order, and keep that defibrillator handy. Thanks, darlin.

--

Oh! That's another culture clash.

Being called "ma'am" or "sir" is a Southern respect thing.

But if you do it to a Yankee it's assumed you're insulting their age or being somehow covertly rude.

It's the damnedest thing.

This is one thing that gets me more looks when I'm in New York. I can't tell you how many times I've said "My dad was army, and I was raised on military bases." as it is easier than saying "I was raised mostly in the south, and I'm being respectful."

--

International Tent aside, they sell things like deep fried corn dogs and deep fried snickers bars there. I'm not making this up.

I've tried (I won't eat this crap, but my morbid curiousity is sufficient for me to sample) deep fried oreos, twinkies, ice cream (the Mexican version is VASTLY better), pickles, coca-cola, mars bars, snickers bars, and probably a few other things. Fair food people will deep dry your toddler, if you leave it unnattended.

I actually like the Virginia state fair, though we've not gone in years. Good fun, and I'm juuust country enough to be able to enjoy all the animals and tractor displays and the like.

Comparatively speaking, a proliferation of waffle houses doesn't sound so bad. I don't think I've ever had real grits.

Addressing non-intimates as "honey" and "darlin" - yes! That's something I think of as southern, no doubt.

I rather like it. I am more likely to tip a waitress that calls me honey, darlin, or sugar than one that dispiritedly just says sir. And i can't tell you how many times I've been to restaurants outside of the south and had to force myself to tip, as the service wasn't horrid by local standards. It would never make the cut around here though.

 

[midwestyankee]

I've been reading this thread with an odd range of responses and I realize that I grew up with one of the most parochial attitudes around: as a boy, I figured that anything west of Buffalo was "the frontier," which was surely a product of having parents whose longest trip away from Maine had been to New York City the year before I was born. The furthest I ever went with my parents was to Boston (roughly 175 miles).

It would be interesting, I think, to reflect on my evolving attitudes toward folk from the south but that will have to wait until after lunch. I'm starving and all this talk of orgasmic waffles is making it hard for me to concentrate.

In sum: forty years ago I would have been far too parochial to even enter this conversation. Even now, I can only do so with some care and trepidation because it will be hard for me to be precise in describing my journey.

 

[JMohegan]

Northern attitudes (I was raised in the north) are often determined by Northerners, not actual exposure to large groups of Southeners who aren't tourists.

Yes, and the problem is amplified when one or more people from an otherwise unfamiliar region make significant, history changing or controversial news.

Right or wrong, Palin is now the face of Alaska for many. Just as the opponents of civil rights were the face of the south to me, back in the day.

 

[Homburg]

Their wounds are probably fresher with segregation. I didn't go to school with black kids until the 5th grade. And still remember them having to sit in the balcony at the movies. There was still racism under the surface in the 70s. You didn't find black families in white neighborhoods. The football coach was asked about one of the players and said, "Well, he's just a nigger." Our golf coach got a letter saying if we had any blacks not to bring them because they wouldn't be allowed on the course. I'm not sure they said blacks. I just remember the golf coach calling a meeting and reading us the letter and making a joke out of it.

Things have changed a lot though in 30 years. Black and white kids playing together. No one looks twice at interracial dating or marriage. People to me seem to treat each other with respect.

The amount of interracial kids in classes with my kids is surprising. even more surprising is how many of their parents are together. And that is saying something, as the army had a LOT of interracial marriages before the rest of society. Single soldier goes overseas, comes back with an oriental wife, or a european wife of different race. So I knew a LOT of kids that had mixed parentage.

 

[00Syd]

Oh, I know plenty of people in NYC who despise NJ and wouldn't be caught admitting they'd gone there.

"Bridge and tunnel" isn't inclusive or loving.

But I hung out with the bitchiest people in the theater. I doubt they'd be brought to admit they like anything.

Oh, yeah. Theater people are theater people before anything else. I'm talking about people who are New Yorker's first before anything else.

 

[intothewoods]

Deep fried twinkie? Deep fried snickers bar?

*faints dead away*

 

[Homburg]

Deep fried twinkie? Deep fried snickers bar?

*faints dead away*

Godawful nasty, both of em. The twinkie was even worse, and I won't even think about the pickle. Suffice to say that I had a pile of napkins handy to ensure that I didn't have to actually swallow anything truly revolting, and I still felt vaguely ill and greasy afterwards.

The phrase "Just try a little bite" is met with great skepticism.

 

[Shankara20]

Some things you just have to experience. Like grits.

But once experienced, like grits, I do not need to do again


but to be on the fair side of grits I was in Virgina at the time...

 

[WriterDom]

Carter did some good things. Bribed the Egyptians into making peace with Israel. Maybe we should have paid more attention to foreign oil instead of building Hummers when gas was cheap. I don't even blame him on the economy. I think if we really understood the economy and it was possible to go forever without a recession we'd end the two party system and just hire a country manager.

My main beef with Carter was the military and I was there in 1981 and heard it a lot from the NCOs. If we are one of two superpowers in the world I damn sure want to be the baddest son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Yeah I can imagine seeing the civil right images would taint your opinion. I was too young to pay much attention at the time. And it seemed like more of a Alabama/Mississippi thing.

But it was over 50 years ago. I think even some of the hard core racists like George Wallace and Lester Maddox realized in their heart what they did was wrong before they died. Not to say there aren't any hard core KKK or militia types out there even today. I don't know any though.

 

[WriterDom]

But once experienced, like grits, I do not need to do again


but to be on the fair side of grits I was in Virgina at the time...

Well you have to put salt, pepper, and butter on them first. Then kind of mix them up with your eggs.