The Mirror Scene (Writerly)

[3113]

In the "Twilight" thread it was pointed out that Meyers uses the trope of having her heroine gaze into a mirror in order to describe said heroine. A few people pointed out that they found this not only unprofessional, but evidence of amateur writing.

Now I'm not arguing that Meyers writes like an amateur, but is using a mirror to describe a character such a bad thing? Why? And if it is, how *should* a "real" writer discribe their character in a way that avoids said character gazing at themselves in the mirror? And does this mean that characters should never examine themselves critically in the looking glass? It is something we all DO do, men and women, gazing at ourselves front and side and sucking in our bellies, or wondering if we ought to dye our hair--or if our hair is getting a little thin there. If we're teens we bemoan a blemish and if we're old farts we bemoan new wrinkles.

And sometimes, yes, we're vain and in a sleek new outfit we practice "come hither" expressions, or how exercise has toned our body or admire that new tattoo we just got that in a place that can't be seen by us except using a mirror. And yes, we even do examine the color of our eyes sometimes ("That girl/boy said they were green, but I always thought they were blue...") or wonder if our nose is well shaped. We *do* and can obsess over our own looks in the mirror.

So. Why be so dismissive of the mirror scene? So what if it's used often? Shouldn't it be a matter of whether it's used to good effect rather than whether it's used at all?

Oh, and yes, I certainly plead guilty to having used it myself here and there.

 

[Boota]

Because it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO cliche'. Almost as bad as using all caps and too many vowels to express some level of extremity.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I, for one, am given to following Terry Pratchett's lead. The character's appearance is a minor issue. All we know about Sam Vines is that he's a skinny, ill-kempt bundle of bad habits well-preserved in alcohol until he meets Lady Sybil and stops drinking.

This doesn't prevent him from being an extremely well-developed character through his thoughts and his conversation. I'd rather go with what the character is like over what he looks like.

Minimalism in character description seems a good ploy, IMO.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

According to the book I just read, professional-best selling writers use every trick there is....including plagiarism. Other professionals notice, but readers cant care less.

 

[Liar]

Vimes is skinny? Missed that part, so I always thought of him as rather beefy.

And guess what, that worked too.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I want to describe this character's appearance, and I tend to write in tight third person. At the moment, she's in a bathroom-- I can have her look into that mirror as she's washing up. She's shocked by her appearance, and it gives me a chance for a quick bit of exposition about the fire that burned her dreadlocks off, so that she's shaved her head. Her skull is longer than she'd ever noticed before.

I *hope* that gives me some character, some world-building, some background, and a teensy bit of description, all in one go...

 

[3113]

Because it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO cliche'. Almost as bad as using all caps and too many vowels to express some level of extremity.

So what? A romance novel where the boy and girl don't like each other at first and learn to like each other is cliché, yet we still read Pride and Prejudice and think it a wonderful novel.

And I don't think a mirror description is equal to using all caps and too many vowels. That's how the words look on the page and sound in the reader's head. This is a thing that can be well or poorly written, however cliché (oh, and VM's fave author there, Prachett, uses all Caps to good effect for when the Character of Death talks).

*GRANTED* that beginning writers should be advised to avoid clichés in order to make them think outside the box. But why can't a professional writer use clichés well and in order to sometimes put a twist on them? Isn't that what it means to be a professional? That things off-limits to beginners are not off-limits to you because you know what you're doing?

Minimalism in character description seems a good ploy, IMO.

It depends on what you're writing and for what audience. Some readers love rich description. Anne Rice may not be your cup of tea, but she thick with description when it comes to settings or characters and I don't think she's a terrible writer for it. You write in the way that fits you and your story, and minimalism isn't always the best for all stories or all writers. If we're going to have general fiats for writing--what works or doesn't work--then I don't think: "it's better not to describe your character and leave it to the reader's imagination" should be one of them. That's a personal preference, as reader and writer, not something that makes ALL stories better across the board.

 

[Boota]

I agree, 3113. Doing something different with a cliche' is one thing. Just having a character stand there admiring thmeselves in the mirror just comes off as a cheap way of getting in the description.

I'm a writer who is sparse on description. If you're reading something I wrote I give you just enough to know what the character Kinda looks like. The rest is up to you. I've had a couple casting meetings concerning Mr. Undesirable and the movie people have been a bit surpised by who I pictured as the characters because they see someone entirely different. Of course, they ask my opinion, but if they ever make this into a movie they'll do whatever they want anyway.

They'll probably have Lenny standing in front of a mirror as a narration voices his own description.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Like anything, it can be done well, in the hands of a good writer. *shrug*

Meyers, however... doesn't quite qualify...

 

[sr71plt]

Whatever works. This device is telling rather than, though, so it generally works best by picking out one or two things the mirror reveals (and better if it reveals some base truth to the reader about the character that the character doesn't realize it reveals) and showing the rest of the character in other ways.

 

[gauchecritic]

I've used mirrors in a couple of stories so that the character can watch themselves.

What I haven't used mirrors for is to describe a pair of 38DD breasts that were still defying gravity or to admire the body of a twenty year old on a forty year old woman.

The cliche mirror scene doesn't include squeezing spots, pulling back long hair to see if a girl could pass as a boy or a bloke hiding his dick between his legs and picturing a minge.

It's not the scene that's cliche, it's what happens whilst looking. Using a mirror to describe a character is cliche.

My Show or Tell, How To, goes some way to finding alternative methods.

 

[3113]

I agree, 3113. Doing something different with a cliche' is one thing. Just having a character stand there admiring thmeselves in the mirror just comes off as a cheap way of getting in the description.

Okay, then. Let's imagine you were teaching a class and had a young Anne Rice who wanted to describe his/her character in detail. And imagine that it's a first person novel. How would you advise that writer to get across some idea, at least, if not the entire rich description of how that first-person narrator looks?

And what if it's third person (let's say singular rather than omniscient) narration--again, the writer wants to describe the character, so whether keeping it minimal or not is good/bad is not the issue. This is the way the writer wants to go. How should he/she best present that description?

I remove omniscient as Tolstoy creates wonderful, detailed descriptions of his characters in War and Peace but does so by taking a god-like view of them. Omniscient can allow that where third-singular makes it harder.

Meyers, however... doesn't quite qualify...

Oh, there's no question of that. We all agree that just about everything she seems to do in her now infamous series is badly done, and the fact that most is cliche only adds insult to injury.

Whatever works. This device is telling rather than, though, so it generally works best by picking out one or two things the mirror reveals (and better if it reveals some base truth to the reader about the character that the character doesn't realize it reveals) and showing the rest of the character in other ways.

Nicely put! So, what you're saying is that the biggest problem with the cliche is that it's often used as one big info dump? If used sparingly and to accent truths about the character--what they focus on, for example, like those new wrinkles--makes it less a cliche and more useful?

Don't put all your eggs in one basket certainly sounds like good advice.

Granting, however, that readers often do form early images of characters even if there are descriptions of them (like thinking them "beefy" rather than thin because they missed the word "thin"). And we know that if you want or need readers to have a certain image of the character, you have to feed it to them quick before their own solidifies. So, how would a writer make sure, as early as possible, that readers had a close-to-right image of how the character looked...assuming it's important to the story?

 

[R. Richard]

The idea of using someone looking in a mirror in order to describe themselves isn't a bad one. It has just been used WAY too many times. If a writer can come up with a new slant on the idea, fine. Otherwise it's a cliche.

 

[sr71plt]

There are several different ways to use mirroring also--doesn't always have to be that flat reflective thing on the wall. I once gave the reader a really detailed description of a character (using showing as much as possible--and not dumping it all at once or as a sidebar to the storyline) and then slipped in later that the protagonist (in a first-person work) was his identical twin (but then I zipped away in showing that the surface looks didn't make them the same internally). And then I've also used mirroring as the thematic device. ("My Glass Canyon Connection" post on the Lit.) The characters' actions mirroring each other and the similarities and differences between the protagonist (once again in a first person narrative) and the mirrored character being given in sort of a litany buried in a description of the activity. (My 'Loosening Therapy" also uses mirroring in yet another context.)

 

[sr71plt]

So, how would a writer make sure, as early as possible, that readers had a close-to-right image of how the character looked...assuming it's important to the story?

I think it would be a rare story where the reader has to have a full description of a character right off the bat. Surely there's some isolated part or parts of the character only that need to be flipped out there to drive the story at the startup.

And cliched as it might be, there is useful symbolism (because people actually do convey meaning through cliches) that can be dropped in a single word or clause to convey whole descriptions to the reader. I've just completed a story where I wanted to convey that the first person voice protagonist is a jaw-dropped stud but didn't want him to stand in front of a mirror and tell the reader, "Hey, it looks like I'm a real hot stud." I had him enter an art gallery as a stranger and had all of the eyes--men and women both--turn from the paintings to him and then the gallery owner, who is none too pleased he's cutting into her business, approach him with the comment ". . . my name is Clare and you must be--Apollo?" and then take him in hand and float around the gallery and use him as a prop to focus patron attention on the paintings through him. The word "Apollo"--like "Bette Davis eyes" is cliched, but conveys a whole description to the reader--and realistically is a name a character would dredge up in that situation. I never again have to describe how he looks.

That said, I try to convey as little as I can get away with about the protagonist, because I want the protagonist the reader reads to be the one THEY want to see, not the one I see if the character trait isn't vital to the storyline.

 

[jomar]

I'm in the 'whatever works in the context of the story' camp, detailed or not. And by detailed, I mean describing a feature that moves the character inward, reveals something new or deeper about them, not just to make a physical description.

I just read a sci-fi story where the mirror scene was brief and used to good effect to show how the heroine realized she was not really comfortable in her glamorized self (show biz public image stuff).

 

[evanslily]

I fall into the 'guilty of using mirror' camp--but then I think probably every writer has at some point. It's on a par with the 'and then I woke up and it was all a dream' thing. The first time you do it, you actually believe no one else has ever thought of doing something so incredibly clever...

But as others have said, it can be done without being cliched. Depends on how good the writer is (already-published authors seem to get away with murder, it seems to me!). Certainly, in first person stories, I've never understood the necessity of describing what the character looks like. I for one, don't spend a lot of time thinking, "Hey, I'm a brunette with shoulder length hair and brown eyes." Because I don't need to. That's not the world from my point of view. Although I might make some comment about wishing my hair was shorter, or my nose smaller, etc., etc.. I guess if the detail is in some way vital to the plot, then I'd have to have a secondary character point out that I'm a brunette or that she envied my brown eyes, that kind of thing.

 

[rgraham666]

I did a whole sex scene in front of a mirror. Nobody seemed to mind.

 

[serpentmoon]

So, how would a writer make sure, as early as possible, that readers had a close-to-right image of how the character looked...assuming it's important to the story?

I think many novels (and sometimes chapters) open in a more distant almost omni pov (except in first person) and then the viewpoint gets tighter. This ‘panned out’ moment can be a time to get important details out there if done well (I’m not suggesting a huge splurge) but cleverly chosen telling detail.

 

[sr71plt]

I did a whole sex scene in front of a mirror. Nobody seemed to mind.

How about a whole bank of mirrors? ("Coach Hazard's Finishing School"--now illustrated at www.barbarianspy.com)

 

[Katyusha]

So. Why be so dismissive of the mirror scene? So what if it's used often? Shouldn't it be a matter of whether it's used to good effect rather than whether it's used at all?

Oh, and yes, I certainly plead guilty to having used it myself here and there.

I was always taught that you don't use the mirror to describe a character too, but what if you have a character who has a serious problem with their own self-image, or a character who's incredibly vain and conceited? In one of my stories, Ariana (my main character) studies herself in the mirror as she's changing into a sexy slip for an intimate scene with her husband. She has a problem; she looks in the mirror and can ONLY see her flaws; the cellulite in her thighs, her saddlebags, her inability to get a completely flat stomach no matter what she tries, the "dullness" of her hair, you name it. She can't see any beauty or sex appeal in herself at all. Her opinion of her body and her general look makes her self-conscious during sex even though her husband is always lavishing sincere praise on her about her sex appeal, and it's part of the overall story; it's how she sees herself rather than just what she looks like.

What I try and do with general character description is fit it into the story here and there; a mirror doesn't always fit into context. For sex or for romance, if I'm giving tidbits about the female lead, the male lead might "run his fingers through her hair and watch it as it falls, admiring its dark red hue and the silkiness of its curls." Things of that nature. I wouldn't have her standing in front of the mirror "admiring the thick and silky curls of her dark red hair," unless her vanity was an important part of her personality.

What I think is cliched is what others have said here: a look in the mirror as just a way to fit a physical description of the character into the story. If you're trying to portray the character as completely self-absorbed, how they see themselves in the mirror can be very revealing and reinforce the reader's opinion of said character. Same thing with other issues that can be shown in the way someone sees themselves in the mirror. The mirror can be a very valuable tool in a story if it's used correctly.

I was going to say this on Stella's thread last night before I got interrupted by, well, nevermind D), but the "rules" that are taught as necessary for good creative writing aren't hard and fast, and in the end, what's used and what isn't used in a story, whether it's a cliche or not, is what works best for the story as well as for the audience and the author themselves. Use what fits with the context; cliches can be excellent tools for plot development, for character development, what-have-you. Oftentimes I find that those who do try to follow the "rules" to the letter end up with very dry writing.

 

[Liar]

Okay, then. Let's imagine you were teaching a class and had a young Anne Rice who wanted to describe his/her character in detail. And imagine that it's a first person novel. How would you advise that writer to get across some idea, at least, if not the entire rich description of how that first-person narrator looks?

Just frickin' tell 'em?

Isn't a first person narrator speaking more-or-less directly to her readers?

So what's wrong with "I'm a ginger blonde beach bunny with huge tits"?

...compared to "I looked into the mirror and saw a ginger blonde beach bunny with huge tits"?

...or if it's in third person: "Donna was a ginger blonde beach bunny with huge tits."

What's the mirror for? Since when did a narrator need an excuse to disclose stuff to it's readers?

 

[Weird Harold]

Okay, then. Let's imagine you were teaching a class and had a young Anne Rice who wanted to describe his/her character in detail. And imagine that it's a first person novel. How would you advise that writer to get across some idea, at least, if not the entire rich description of how that first-person narrator looks?

Doesn't Anne Rice write about vampires who don't have a reflection? Seems mirror scenes would necessarily be a bit short for her main characters.

Nicely put! So, what you're saying is that the biggest problem with the cliche is that it's often used as one big info dump? If used sparingly and to accent truths about the character--what they focus on, for example, like those new wrinkles--makes it less a cliche and more useful?

One of these days, I'm going to write my "reward poster" story -- a story where the main character stops in front of a mirror everyt ime she leaves home to describe herself and snap a picture for a missing person poster if she doesn't come home on time. It would be very difficult to write that story without a mirror scene or two -- or three or four or more.

I think that people only really notice the gratuitous mirror scenes -- scenes only serve to "reward poster" the character's appearance. The well written, integral plot device, mirror scenes don't get commented on because they simply fit the needs of the story.

Another case where a mirror scene is almost a necessity is a character who has an unrealistic self-image -- a "fonzie" moment in front of a mirror to admire the perfectly styled and stylish hair to later contrast with another character's "hair slicked back with grease so it looks like a duck's ass."

Even something as simple as hair color depends on who is doing the describing and sometimes it is useful for the character's self-image to be emphasized. Mirror scenes are a useful way to reveal a character's opinion of themselves, or give them someone to tell their troubles to who will agree with them unconditionally. But they're also very easy plot devices to abuse and when it is abused, it stands out like a neon sign saying "here's a lazy writer."

 

[damppanties]

This thread made me think of this.

 

[3113]

I for one, don't spend a lot of time thinking, "Hey, I'm a brunette with shoulder length hair and brown eyes."

But you might think: "I wonder what I'd look like as a blonde instead of a brunette" or "maybe I should cut this hair shorter" or "I wonder if I should get green contacts" yes? Thus letting us know you're a brunette with shoulder-length hair and brown eyes.

I think it would be a rare story where the reader has to have a full description of a character right off the bat.

Probably, but for the sake of argument, I was interested in how someone might do it.

I try to convey as little as I can get away with about the protagonist, because I want the protagonist the reader reads to be the one THEY want to see, not the one I see if the character trait isn't vital to the storyline.

Which is your perogative, of course. But I didn't want this thread used to tag as inferior or sadly mistaken writers who like to give detailed descriptions of characters. While erasing the description is a quick and dirty way of erasing the mirror problem, it also erases the pleasure many readers get from such descriptions. There are readers who take great pleasure in character descriptions and very much want them and would NOT thank you for the favor of letting it be "their" protagonist.

Just frickin' tell 'em

LOL!. Fair enough!

Doesn't Anne Rice write about vampires who don't have a reflection?

Alas, no. Her vampires can be seen in mirrors and spend a good deal of time admiring themselves in mirrors. Oh, and lately she's given up vampires for Jesus.