What Is Best In Art?

[THROBBS]

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women. " ~Conan

Whoops!
That is the answer to "what is best in life?"


Seriously (mostly)...

There have be some "discussions" on content vs technique, elsewhere.

And there have certainly been, non productive threads on "what is Art?"

I have been pondering the amount of praise that follows poor imagery. There is plenty of imagery posted that have little redeeming qualities. (interrupted....back later) Some have no technical merit, some have no concept or substance and many have not much of anything to offer.

I fully understand that this is a LITerary site and that the audience is largely ignorant of the visual arts. I still find it a bit irksome the fawning that happens over rubbish. Again, I am not so naive as to be blind to the main purpose of the bulletin boards... to get strokes.

BUT...maybe.... just maybe there can be some conversation about quality of imagery. That can include technique, concepts composition, inspiration....

 

[THROBBS]

I can start with me and mine...

I have no false illusions about what I post. I do not consider it "art" per se.
What I post are studies and concepts and ideas.. and just wank material.

There is some measure of "skill" in the rendering... but they tend to be explicit (not subtle).

Many are intentionally distorted...some GREATLY.
I have reasons for this.

I am able to render tight realism. In general, I choose not to. This is a place for me to relax and explore and photos serve just fine for realism....

I'll post examples later...

 

[incubi37]

Awesome

Your art is really cool. You have artistic talent. Keep up the good work. Like to see more pics from you. I especially like the raven girl.

 

[THROBBS]

Your art is really cool. You have artistic talent. Keep up the good work. Like to see more pics from you. I especially like the raven girl.

Well, thank you!

I am hoping to be able to have some discussion of erotic illustration here.

(and I do plan on more imagery of the Raven Woman)

 

[JCanuck]

Hey, I guess I will be more of an outsider on this conversation considering I really have no artistic talent myself but I do appreciate what is posted.

I'm glad you make the point that you do this to relax and actually for your own enjoyment and I think that comes across specifically in what you have been posting and the fun you have with a couple of people. It's apparent to me that if you were to be completely focussed on an image or subject you could make it as "real" as you wanted but that really isn't your intention. Personally this is why I approached you about doing a few drawings because I wanted to see my girlfriend drawn in a way where you would be having fun (with an edge) and not just in a portrait style. Credit to those who can do that type of picture but what I like is the energy behind your pictures and the way you communicate basically how you would want to see or treat them at that point in time.

 

[blanger]

art or not art

To be honnest, I have not draw or sculpted in a long while, but find I agree with your statements. I came to lit in the first place looking for images to draw from, I like to work with the human form and mostly the female form, but I have not done anything along the erotic.

I have seen some of the work here on lit and find some of it very good and others well lets just say that need some more work. For me art is first message and then skill but that said as one who has a writing disability I may have a great idea for a story but if I tryed to write it I would be laughed off of this site.

If you really want a art discussion you may have to visit other sites or as you have done ask the hard questions. The people that are passionat about visual arts will set up as you can see by the number I do not post much but felt it necessary to through my 2 cents in on this one.

just to put my money where my mouth is here are a couple of my peices from a while ago

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16329959

 

[Fantasies_only]

I am hoping to be able to have some discussion of erotic illustration here.

That goes back to the original ongoing debate:
"What's the difference between erotica and pornography?"

 

[THROBBS]

That goes back to the original ongoing debate:
"What's the difference between erotica and pornography?"

No, it doesn't. THAT has been beaten to death elsewhere.
If that is a topic...give it a whole 'nother thread.

 

[THROBBS]

To be honnest, I have not draw or sculpted in a long while, but find I agree with your statements. I came to lit in the first place looking for images to draw from, I like to work with the human form and mostly the female form, but I have not done anything along the erotic.

I have seen some of the work here on lit and find some of it very good and others well lets just say that need some more work. For me art is first message and then skill but that said as one who has a writing disability I may have a great idea for a story but if I tryed to write it I would be laughed off of this site.

If you really want a art discussion you may have to visit other sites or as you have done ask the hard questions. The people that are passionat about visual arts will set up as you can see by the number I do not post much but felt it necessary to through my 2 cents in on this one.

just to put my money where my mouth is here are a couple of my peices from a while ago

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=16329959

Blanger~
Yes, You are correct about going elsewhere for any meaty discussion.

I came to LIT because of the stories and stumbled into the forums. LIT has a place for erotic illustrations and I tried to post images there way back when I first joined (under a difff name) in...2001. As you might see... The erotic illustrations there are from around 2000 and have not budged since then.

So... I began posting my own erotic imagery on he bulletin boards.

I see some technical skill in your drawing... and your "hand" there. A nice focus on the model's face........ yet it says to me that it is a rendering of a photograph, not a rendering of a woman... if you follow what I mean. I'd like to see what you produce from a live model.

What I think I see is a subtle thing (sometimes). But especially these days when any ol' body can apply a few photoshop filters to a photograph and "create" something that appears hand rendered. So all the more I look for something fresh and more human in a piece. Which at times seems a bit contradictory... because I also dislike crude drawings or paintings which show no mastery of the medium or understanding of the subject... light and volume.

I produce plenty of crap, myself.

 

[THROBBS]

Hey, I guess I will be more of an outsider on this conversation considering I really have no artistic talent myself but I do appreciate what is posted.

I'm glad you make the point that you do this to relax and actually for your own enjoyment and I think that comes across specifically in what you have been posting and the fun you have with a couple of people. It's apparent to me that if you were to be completely focussed on an image or subject you could make it as "real" as you wanted but that really isn't your intention. Personally this is why I approached you about doing a few drawings because I wanted to see my girlfriend drawn in a way where you would be having fun (with an edge) and not just in a portrait style. Credit to those who can do that type of picture but what I like is the energy behind your pictures and the way you communicate basically how you would want to see or treat them at that point in time.

I am pleased that you see that.

 

[tolyk]

<snip>So all the more I look for something fresh and more human in a piece. Which at times seems a bit contradictory... because I also dislike crude drawings or paintings which show no mastery of the medium or understanding of the subject... light and volume.

I produce plenty of crap, myself.

This is something that directly applies to my craft, photography. What we photographers are always told, "Learn the rules, and then learn when and why to break them."

It's not contradictory. A knowledgable artist/painter can create something that looks crude on the surface and yet noticably have talent gone into it. Just my quick take on the subject.

-Tol

 

[Fantasies_only]

No, it doesn't. THAT has been beaten to death elsewhere.
If that is a topic...give it a whole 'nother thread.

That was a topic (Author's Hangout 2005, 2006, 2007), and has since been deleted.

 

[starrkers]

That was a topic (Author's Hangout 2005, 2006, 2007), and has since been deleted.

Oh dear, the Story Ideas serial pest has migrated

 

[THROBBS]

This is something that directly applies to my craft, photography. What we photographers are always told, "Learn the rules, and then learn when and why to break them."

It's not contradictory. A knowledgable artist/painter can create something that looks crude on the surface and yet noticably have talent gone into it. Just my quick take on the subject.

-Tol

Thanks Tolyk! I think you said it better.

 

[THROBBS]

That was a topic (Author's Hangout 2005, 2006, 2007), and has since been deleted.

Yes.. but it is still in OTHER threads.

It Certainly can be revisited with A NEW thread.
You will find that it will be much "beauty (erotiicsim, porn, Art) is in the eye of the beholder".
And also tends to go the route of political or religious threads.... in circles.

 

[tolyk]

Thanks Tolyk! I think you said it better.

Glad to be a part of the discussion Let's get the ball rolling here guys. Let's talk about porn.. er.. I mean erotic images *sheepish grin*

 

[THROBBS]

wasted breath, I think.

 

[haha_on_me]

I don't draw erotic drawings, though I'm not opposed to doing them. I just haven't. I'm a very anal, techincal artist regardless of the medium I'm working in. Everything has to be perfect in my eyes....they may not be so in yours.
I've never really been able to do cartoony style drawings because of the way I draw. I admire those that can, and those that do it very well. I suppose I lack the imagination and the ability to free my mind to do that.
Everyone says that art is what you make it. For me, that's true to a degree, but as an anal, techinal artist, I don't understand impressionism. To me, it's art by people that can't draw or paint. Don't yell, that's just my take. Art is art to whomever is making it, or whomever appreciates it.

I don't think this was anywhere near the target subject. Sorry.

 

[philos]

uselessness

I thought the definition for art was that it cannot be used for anything else. a la DuChamp. I guess since erotica and porn have a very definite use (arousal) it may not fit this definition.

 

[Extreme Bohunk]

Throbb's original comments-

I have been pondering the amount of praise that follows poor imagery. There is plenty of imagery posted that have little redeeming qualities. (interrupted....back later) Some have no no technical merit, some have not concept or substance and many have not much of anything to offer.

I fully understand that this is a LITerary site and that the audience is largely ignorant of the visual arts. I still find it a bit irksome the fawning that happens over rubbish. Again, I am not so naive as to be blind to the main purpose of the bulletin boards... to get strokes.

BUT...maybe.... just maybe there can be some conversation about quality of imagery. That can include technique, concepts composition, inspiration....[/QUOTE]

My 2 cents worth-
I've looked through some of the AmPics threads, and it seems that despite poor images, webcab shtuff, the most interest is in some gal who flirts back with replies, kind of like an online sex chat. I agree completely w/ your 'fawning over rubbish' comment. I feel it was proven long ago that overall the concept of quality can be secondary to accessibility and convenience. Not to mention the instant gratification mindset that has become the norm. That's why McD's has served billions, ya know? As P.T. Barnum once said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the public."

For myself, I've tried my hand at organic art & although it was OK, it was photography that allowed me to express my creative visions best. Fact is, my hands just don't have the ability to output what's in my busy little noggin.

As I learn more about photography, I agreed w/ Tolyk's comment about 'learn the rules, and them break them'. I have nothing against using photoshop to push the basic images to where I want them.

 

[AlteregoID]

I've tried many types of drawing styles myself.. My personal best is 2 point perspective... because you can use a ruler for everything! I'm horrible at drawing humans, especially noses and hands, though I never put much serious practice into it. I do very much love photography though, so I think I'll just be content with that art form Now.. just to find some willing models

 

[Halo_n_horns]

Here's what I get for occasional trolling: Interested.

Thank you, Throbbs, for the great topic! You and I both know all too well what it is you're attempting to capture in this thread.

I vaguely remember a thread, many moons ago, where you and I ... er ... was it that Dark Glasses character ... uummm ... maybe it was Rhino-something or another ...

Anyway, there was a conversation that came up about what is or isn't art. It was a feeble time-wasting debate about the differences between "photography" and "art". Not to get into that one again, and it was more technical and simantical than anything else anyway. I think the general concensus was that whatever you wish to consider art is generally what was inspiring emotion to well up from within, yes?

I hear you completely about pieces of "work" that get oodles of kudos when perhaps much more deserving pieces get little or no recognition. I've found in the last year, especially, that often it's the "poor" pieces that get recognition by the masses because those pieces don't threaten the egos of the onlookers. They can look at a piece of crap, see that it doesn't contain a great deal of skill on the part of the creator, yet it does manage to contain something that stirs them emotionally. Rather than looking at the piece and thinking something like, "Man! There's a piece of work that I'll never be talented enough to create!" they might instead look at it and become enamoured with the imagery because it is of a concept that they feel they not only relate to but also of a quality they could generate themselves.

I think photography might have a type of escape from this as people see photography every day whether it be in the form of snapshots or the high-end photos found in magazines. The masses are so incredibly detatched from all the behind-the-scenes differences of all the different kinds of photography, that they're able to look at photos and much more easily think, even if only subconsciously, "Yeah, I could have taken that picture". But put a paintbrush in that same person's hand and tell them to paint for you a Mona Lisa and you'll barely be able to count one second before that person is looking for the exit.

Whether this post is red meat or fat that needs to be trimmed at least you've got some fodder to work with ... I think