[enraged] terrorists offering instructions, bounties for gays

[silverwhisper]

courtesy of a friend...

short version: a gay pride march in jerusalem is endangered by leaflets offering bounties for dead gays. the leaflets also include instructions on making molotov cocktails. long version here.

commentary: too disgusted to comment.

ed

 

[Wolfman1982]

I am too scared to say anything, since that reminds me about a gay pride in Denmark some years ago, where palestenian kids threw rocks at the people at the pride, and that pissed me off too . But you can´t do anything about it, since they are 200 years back in time, so it is really the 1700 to them , and in a very weird fuckedup way. Because of their religion.

 

[madmanmike]

get the fuck over it. i am so tired of gay people acting like they are so damn persecuted and comparing it to the black rights movement.


black people marched and were atacked by dogs and shot and spit on and had their houses burned down in front of them and hung from the trees of goverment buildings.

gays march and they are protected and people come to watch and give support.

BIG FUCKING DIFERENCE


so some people dont like gays. let them. they dont have to. they dont have to tolerate gays and they dont have to like gays. their religion syas it is wrong as does every current major religion i can think of. hell the only ones i can think of that dont mind it are the greek/roman religions of 2000 years ago.


if you want them to accept you you are retarded. if they throw rocks at you you have 3 choices.

1) deal with it like the blacks did and continue until their arms wear out and they tire and can throw no more.

2) bow to them and become straight or dont be gay in public like gays have done for centuries

3) get a gun and start a war that makes israel/palastein look like the honeymooners.

but please sont try and tell me the world is out to get you. if you are in the US you are in one of the most tolerant countries in the world. you can kiss another man in front of city hall and not have police beat your ass. enjoy it.

 

[Queersetti]

get the fuck over it. i am so tired of gay people acting like they are so damn persecuted and comparing it to the black rights movement.


black people marched and were atacked by dogs and shot and spit on and had their houses burned down in front of them and hung from the trees of goverment buildings.

gays march and they are protected and people come to watch and give support.

BIG FUCKING DIFERENCE


so some people dont like gays. let them. they dont have to. they dont have to tolerate gays and they dont have to like gays. their religion syas it is wrong as does every current major religion i can think of. hell the only ones i can think of that dont mind it are the greek/roman religions of 2000 years ago.


if you want them to accept you you are retarded. if they throw rocks at you you have 3 choices.

1) deal with it like the blacks did and continue until their arms wear out and they tire and can throw no more.

2) bow to them and become straight or dont be gay in public like gays have done for centuries

3) get a gun and start a war that makes israel/palastein look like the honeymooners.

but please sont try and tell me the world is out to get you. if you are in the US you are in one of the most tolerant countries in the world. you can kiss another man in front of city hall and not have police beat your ass. enjoy it.

You don't have the slightest notion of what the real world is like, and you are clueless as to what gays and lesbians face in this country.

I would correct all the errors in your post, but as they are self evident to every intelligent reader, there is no point to doing so.

 

[madmanmike]

You don't have the slightest notion of what the real world is like, and you are clueless as to what gays and lesbians face in this country.

your right i am clueless to what lesbians go through but not gay men.

i am just fucking tired of gay people talking like they are the most persecuted people on the fucking planet. as if it was a second holocaust. they have it better than they have had it since the roman empire.


we all need to just get the fuck over it.

 

[Queersetti]

your right i am clueless to what lesbians go through but not gay men.

i am just fucking tired of gay people talking like they are the most persecuted people on the fucking planet. as if it was a second holocaust. they have it better than they have had it since the roman empire.


we all need to just get the fuck over it.

The fact that others have troubles not not negate the fact that we have our own.

In point of fact, gays and lesbians have been in the vanguard of support for the rights of others, both in America and abroad.

Perhaps your claims to speak as one of us would be more credible if you didn't refer to us as "they".

 

[TransJason]

what the hell are you talking about..gay men are murdered every day in the US and UK for just ebing gay !..like blacks for being black, or asians for being asian.

Thats the real world....and black and gay have rights now, gays long after black rights !..infact its blacks who are the queer bashers most the time as culturally its seen as someting a black man doeant do...so a black freind tells me who is gay and black !! Due to intolerany Christain adn rasta views.

And yeah, its been through the strength and freindship of a lot of gay white people that black rights came to be, as they understood about intolerance and hatred.

What you saying is like an ignorant upper class white guy saying a black person is "playing the race card"...real life is much harder and more complicated.

 

[candiecane76]

get the fuck over it. i am so tired of gay people acting like they are so damn persecuted and comparing it to the black rights movement.


black people marched and were atacked by dogs and shot and spit on and had their houses burned down in front of them and hung from the trees of goverment buildings.

gays march and they are protected and people come to watch and give support.

BIG FUCKING DIFERENCE


so some people dont like gays. let them. they dont have to. they dont have to tolerate gays and they dont have to like gays. their religion syas it is wrong as does every current major religion i can think of. hell the only ones i can think of that dont mind it are the greek/roman religions of 2000 years ago.


if you want them to accept you you are retarded. if they throw rocks at you you have 3 choices.

1) deal with it like the blacks did and continue until their arms wear out and they tire and can throw no more.

2) bow to them and become straight or dont be gay in public like gays have done for centuries

3) get a gun and start a war that makes israel/palastein look like the honeymooners.

but please sont try and tell me the world is out to get you. if you are in the US you are in one of the most tolerant countries in the world. you can kiss another man in front of city hall and not have police beat your ass. enjoy it.

So you're saying that gays just need to 'deal with it like the blacks did'?
Well, I have news for you, blacks didn't 'just deal with it' maybe for awhile, sure, but after awhile they stood up and FOUGHT for their rights. And what you're seeing, is the gays doing the exact same thing.

But the point is, the fact that you would say that they should just let the discrimination happen is sickening. No minority group should have to put up with the sorts of discrimination that is hurled upon them.

Now I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to have their opinions either, but when those same people begin to physically harm a group, as well as use the law to limit them more, then that group should stand up and fight, just like any other group has done before them.

 

[The_Trouvere]

In the United States those to the left of the Democrat Party often become sympathetic to Islamic people and culture. This is because most Moslems are hostile to the United States, and those to the left of the Democrat Party are too.

Those to the left of the Democrat Party are particularly hostile to the religious right and the Bible Belt. Everything they dislike about the religious right is true several times over about contemporary Islam and the Moslem world.

A gay rights march in Jerusalem will be threatened. Because Jerusalem is in Israel it will be allowed, and protected by the police. A gay rights march in any Islamic country anywhere in the world is hardly thinkable. Gays who are not arrested by the police will be beaten to death by the mob.

 

[Wolfman1982]

In the United States those to the left of the Democrat Party often become sympathetic to Islamic people and culture. This is because most Moslems are hostile to the United States, and those to the left of the Democrat Party are too.

Those to the left of the Democrat Party are particularly hostile to the religious right and the Bible Belt. Everything they dislike about the religious right is true several times over about contemporary Islam and the Moslem world.

A gay rights march in Jerusalem will be threatened. Because Jerusalem is in Israel it will be allowed, and protected by the police. A gay rights march in any Islamic country anywhere in the world is hardly thinkable. Gays who are not arrested by the police will be beaten to death by the mob.

Like it is only in Muslim countries, it is also in former Yoguslavia where a Dane has been attacked during a gay march. So bullshit, to it is only Muslim countries. And it was about a month ago the incident happened.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Like it is only in Muslim countries, it is also in former Yoguslavia where a Dane has been attacked during a gay march. So bullshit, to it is only Muslim countries. And it was about a month ago the incident happened.

Did I say that it was only in Moslem countries?

 

[Wolfman1982]

Did I say that it was only in Moslem countries?

I read and analysed it, that way. aka. I thought you meant it was only in Muslim countries.

 

[emap]

Ummm guys, the terrorist muslims hate everyone not themselves, they work with other extreme sections of the muslim world because it moves their own agenda.

Same idea as Adolf Hitler, he hated more than just jewish, he hated every single person who was not tall blonde and lean. Take a peak at Germany sometime, blonde is kinda rare, he tolerated most of germany because he had to. He wasn't blonde or tall, speaks volumes for how badly warped he was doesn't it.

They are singling out gays because of the gay pride march. Which makes sense in a twisted way, take offense at the people different from you is rather an S.O.P. of people world over anyway, going after the one being publically different is also S.O.P.

 

[John Doe]

What kind of an idiot needs instructions to make a Molotov cocktail?

Ummm guys, the terrorist muslims hate everyone not themselves, they work with other extreme sections of the muslim world because it moves their own agenda.

Same idea as Adolf Hitler, he hated more than just jewish, he hated every single person who was not tall blonde and lean. Take a peak at Germany sometime, blonde is kinda rare, he tolerated most of germany because he had to. He wasn't blonde or tall, speaks volumes for how badly warped he was doesn't it.

Did he? I'm starting to wonder if he perpetrated the genocide not so much out of hatred, but rather political expediency.

 

[al_Ussa]

In the United States those to the left of the Democrat Party often become sympathetic to Islamic people and culture. This is because most Moslems are hostile to the United States, and those to the left of the Democrat Party are too.

Bullshit. Nothing in Islam or Islamic culture is inherently anti-American and, in fact, the Democrats are really an anathema to Islam anyway... Islam FORBIDS abortion, Islam BELIEVES in God... not exactly Democratic talking points, now are they?

Those to the left of the Democrat Party are particularly hostile to the religious right and the Bible Belt. Everything they dislike about the religious right is true several times over about contemporary Islam and the Moslem world.

You've never been to a Muslim country, have you? Yeah, there are places like that, but there are also much more cosmopolitan areas as well... Lahore immediately springs to mind.

A gay rights march in Jerusalem will be threatened. Because Jerusalem is in Israel it will be allowed, and protected by the police. A gay rights march in any Islamic country anywhere in the world is hardly thinkable. Gays who are not arrested by the police will be beaten to death by the mob.

There are a LOT of Jews in Israel who are pretty virulently anti-homosexual... incidentally, there have been gay pride marches in Indonesia and Malaysia with no problems... not to mention that there are gays in every country in the world.

 

[al_Ussa]

What kind of an idiot needs instructions to make a Molotov cocktail?



Did he? I'm starting to wonder if he perpetrated the genocide not so much out of hatred, but rather political expediency.

No... I think hatred played a big part in it. Alot of Euro-Americans seem to forget that he also perpetuated genocide against the Gypsies, Slavs (parituclarly the Polish), gays, Communists, blacks, cripples, retarded, autistic... pretty much anyone who didn't fit his 'master race'.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I read and analysed it, that way. aka. I thought you meant it was only in Muslim countries.

You need to read with better reading comprehension. Nevertheless, it is almost certainly true that Islamic countries are more intolerant of homosexual behavior than any other countries.

Hostility toward homosexuals has been the rule throughout recorded history, however. Homosexual behavior was illegal in the Soviet Union, and it was punished.

 

[al_Ussa]

Hostility toward homosexuals has been the rule throughout recorded history, however. Homosexual behavior was illegal in the Soviet Union, and it was punished.

Actually, this is only if we look at the 'western' countries, really, because of the development of religious ideologies that viewed homosexuality as 'evil'.... the ancient Egyptian, Babylonian, Assyrian and Phoenician religions, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.... all of these viewed homosexuality as unnatural, and to be punished by death usually. But then they are all little more than re-iterations of one another anyway.

Problem is, it gets sketchier outside of such areas. Homosexuality had little to no moral connection outside of the Near Eastern/Abrahamic faiths... which means that it wasn't neccessarily persecuted in societies that didn't have such perogotives. In classical Greece, for instance, and later in Rome. Japan and China too are good examples. Sometimes in India. In parts of the Americas, black Africa and in the Pacific as well.

Now, this is not to say such was always the case, nor that it was neccessarily what would be viewed as homosexuality in today's light. My point is more that persecution of homosexuals (even in the Soviet Union) was due more to exposure to certain religious ideals.

 

[The_Trouvere]

My point is more that persecution of homosexuals (even in the Soviet Union) was due more to exposure to certain religious ideals.

I have difficulty understanding why an overtly atheistic society like the Soviet Union could have been strongly influenced by Christianity. Although the Third Reich was not overtly atheistic, it was non-Christian. During World War II homosexuals were killed in the death camps.

I am fairly well read in the anthropology of American Indians. I do not remember homosexuality being mentioned. Of course, when homosexuality is not mentioned it is likely to be the case that it is so sanctioned against as to be invisible. Try doing a study of homosexuals in the Confederate Infantry, for example.

In my life the teenage boys and men I have known who were overtly hostile to gays were not practicing Christians or Jews. I hesitate to generalize from my experience, however.

The point I am making is that revulsion against homosexual behavior is probably innate among heterosexual males, and that most of us must make an effort not to feel that way. I make an effort not to act on my revulsion, but I acknowledge feeling it.

 

[al_Ussa]

I have difficulty understanding why an overtly atheistic society like the Soviet Union could have been strongly influenced by Christianity.

Because they were... For centuries before, Russia had been influenced by the Orthodox Church. Just because the government that took over after deposing the Tsar didn't believe in Christianity, or for that matter Judaism or Islam or Buddhism (all of which influenced Russia) does not mean they got rid of the legacy. Indeed, even the reactionary ANTI religion stance comes from that same tradition...

It is not the same in a country such as say Burma, where Christianity never made an impact at all.

Although the Third Reich was not overtly atheistic, it was non-Christian. During World War II homosexuals were killed in the death camps.

Yes... and no. Nazi Germany was not an inherently theistic governmental system, but they certainly were willing to exploit religious self-identity amongst the Germans, be it the Catholic Bavarians or the Protestant Prussians. And yes... some of their ideology was taken from Christianity, not the least of which included some of the anti-Semitic bias (Jews as 'Christ killers').

I am fairly well read in the anthropology of American Indians. I do not remember homosexuality being mentioned. Of course, when homosexuality is not mentioned it is likely to be the case that it is so sanctioned against as to be invisible. Try doing a study of homosexuals in the Confederate Infantry, for example.

Except when we speak of the American Indians, we are talking about hundreds, no thousands of groups, ranging from tribal hunter-gathers in the more marginal areas to outright empires like the Aztec and Inca. And many groups changed drastically within a few decades of contact with Europeans. One cannot easily make generalizations, as say the Tuscarora, Miwok or Lakota are not the same as the Lenape, Cherokee or Comanche.

But yes, homosexuality did exist in all groups, with varying degrees of acceptance. I believe in some South American groups there is (or historically was) ritualized homosexuality, as one might see in parts of Melanesia.

In my life the teenage boys and men I have known who were overtly hostile to gays were not practicing Christians or Jews. I hesitate to generalize from my experience, however.

Except that almost everyone you encounter is probably a direct product of millennia of Judaic, Christian and Islamic influence, regardless of whether or not they are 'practicing'.

Unless you are meeting... I don't know, some Adivasis or Adamanese or Yanomamo or such.

Actually... I take that back. Most of East Asia is relatively untouched by those influences, not all but a good chunk. Christianity just isn't much of an influence at all on the overall make-up of Japan, or Burma. And of course India still has the very strong Hindu tradition, in spite of centuries of Muslim rule.

The point I am making is that revulsion against homosexual behavior is probably innate among heterosexual males, and that most of us must make an effort not to feel that way. I make an effort not to act on my revulsion, but I acknowledge feeling it.

I think what you are doing is rationalizing a culturally based prejudice, something you were raised with and not born with. The use of the term revulsion makes me think its... something. I don't know what.

Speaking as a heterosexual male, I feel no qualms in saying I have no problem with homosexuals, nor do I care what they do. If a guy runs around acting like an asshole I'll call him on it, but because he's an asshole not because of his sexual preference. And yes, I'll call things 'gay,' but not out of a hatred for gays. Just because thats an accepted phrase in English.

I have sex with women. Lots of them, when I can. But honestly, it doesn't matter to me if someone else doesn't. In fact, I'm inclined to say let the gays grow in number, since it'll leave more pussy for the rest of us :-D

 

[John Doe]

No... I think hatred played a big part in it. Alot of Euro-Americans seem to forget that he also perpetuated genocide against the Gypsies, Slavs (parituclarly the Polish), gays, Communists, blacks, cripples, retarded, autistic... pretty much anyone who didn't fit his 'master race'.

I think hatred played a big part too, but I'm not convinced that Hitler is solely to blame for the Holocaust. I doubt he would've been able to come to power as he did without much support from the German people.

The Nazis also rounded up and murdered anyone who were considered a threat to the State, even if they were a "pure" (third generation or longer) German. It was not only about hatred and intolerance. It was about power.

 

[John Doe]

The point I am making is that revulsion against homosexual behavior is probably innate among heterosexual males, and that most of us must make an effort not to feel that way. I make an effort not to act on my revulsion, but I acknowledge feeling it.

Seriously?

 

[none2_none2]

I think hetero male responses to homosexuality run the gamut.

1) Some are very anti-gay for religious reasons.
2) Some are very anit-gay because of their sexual standards of what a penis is supposed to be used for. Some of them will even claim not to contemn homosexuality, yet you can feel their disgust about it.
3) Some aren't anti-gay, but they don't appreciate it when a gay guy won't take no for an answer.
4) Some probably wouldn't mind getting off with a guy IF a woman wasn't available -- such as prison. They don't see it as sex, but as getting off.


Sometimes for me the ones that are hardest to deal with are #2. I guess that is just me.

 

[pigdog1977]

Like it is only in Muslim countries, it is also in former Yoguslavia where a Dane has been attacked during a gay march. So bullshit, to it is only Muslim countries. And it was about a month ago the incident happened.

The Ottoman Turks conquered a good portion of the former of Yugoslavia in the 12th or 13th centuries. Many republics are still predominantly Muslim. Bosnia, for instance...
Are you not old enough to remember the Serb vs. Muslim war going on in the early 90s?

M

 

[pigdog1977]

I am fairly well read in the anthropology of American Indians. I do not remember homosexuality being mentioned. Of course, when homosexuality is not mentioned it is likely to be the case that it is so sanctioned against as to be invisible.

Comes up quite often in Plains Indian culture.

M