One more reason to vote for Obama

[rgraham666]

I can't imagine anybody on the far right voting for Obama. They might as well vote for Stalin. And if you read some of the far right's posts here and on other political forums, they think Obama is Stalin.

Personally, I think the next Presidency, or the one after that, will be the last Presidency of a coast-to-coast U.S. The divides in the U.S. are now too wide to be crossed. And politics in the States consists in large part of widening those divides.

Sad.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

. . . housing crisis is going to take a long time to heal . . .

Not really. For one thing the worst effects are concentrated in a handfull of areas where the most extreme price run-ups occurred. There are signs that housing prices in general are finding a bottom. Most homeowners aren't affected at all by this thing. At the institutional level, there are also signs that the "freezing up" of liquidity is beginning to straighten itself out. Some institutions and investors will/have take a bath, but that's the nature of capitalism and "creative destruction."

I predict that one year from today the thing will be mostly history, with the only "hangover" being that a chastened financial system will be a bit more prudent and cautious about lending money - not a bad thing.

One thing can screw up this sunny picture - Congress. God save us from politicians "fixing" the problem. Most likely event: They will pile on so many new close-barn-door-after-horse-out regulations on mortgage lenders that the home lending market will be sclerotic for decades to come. You want "red-lining?" Congress may will give it to you.

 

[Darkniciad]

I can't imagine anybody on the far right voting for Obama. They might as well vote for Stalin. And if you read some of the far right's posts here and on other political forums, they think Obama is Stalin.

Personally, I think the next Presidency, or the one after that, will be the last Presidency of a coast-to-coast U.S. The divides in the U.S. are now too wide to be crossed. And politics in the States consists in large part of widening those divides.

Sad.

Rob, it may look that way on the boob tube and the internet, but that's just not the way it is out here on the ground. Most of the Joes and Janes aren't extremists for either side, and hold positions on both sides of the fence, even if they lean more to one side than the other.

There's no civil war coming south of your border

Good thing, because the side you'd prefer to win doesn't have any guns

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I've got $20 that says McCain's running mate will be Condi Rice. There are too many "denials" to be believed, especially when she appeals to the Neo-Facists in the party for her foreign policy, whether their view of it is accurate or not. If she is politics in the US will have changed forever, especially if McCain does die in office.

 

[rgraham666]

I wish I was as sanguine about it as you, Dark. In cases like this it's the extremists that make the difference. They'll be the ones to act.

I don't believe most people wanted the last civil war either. But it happened. And most people marched off to it with a light heart.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

We are no nearer civil war than Quebec is to sovereignty. Stop reading those hysterical columnists, Rob, they live in a self-perpetuating world of invented crisis.

And remember if the Quebecois do actually secede, Alberta and Saskatchuan will become the 51st and 52nd states in the US and BC will be thinking it over seriously.

 

[Darkniciad]

Condi's been giving reporters the "Hell no!" about a VP spot or a Presidential run since 2001. It's not like this is a sudden surge of denials.

I've got $20 that says McCain's running mate will be Condi Rice. There are too many "denials" to be believed, especially when she appeals to the Neo-Facists in the party for her foreign policy, whether their view of it is accurate or not. If she is politics in the US will have changed forever, especially if McCain does die in office.

 

[Elianna]

I don't think we're approaching civil war. I agree that politics are tense, but I also agree with Dark...

The media blows things out of proportion.

"The housing crisis!" *Dramatic music playing*

Now I could be wrong but... if you're suffering in the housing crisis it's because you over invested/extended yourself financially, got a sub-prime home loan, or put your stocks in places that EVERYONE said was going to be a volatile market even four years ago. Not to say "it serves you right" but sometimes mistakes are the best way to learn. I'm not great with finances, but... when things are too good be true, they probably are.

"It could be war" *more music*
The political climate is tense. I'm an Arizonan and I don't know if I'd vote for McCain, but I don't have the facts and frankly, until the Democratic nomination is over, I'm going to hold out, then make an educated decision. I'm not sure where America is going, but I remember that when we were in the "Cold War" the big fear was we'd all turn into dust (or radioactive mutants) and the fear, apprehension, and distrust was just as rampant then as it is today.

I think things like this are cyclic. Hold on for a few years and climate will change again.

 

[Belegon]

Rob, no civil war is coming.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Condi's been giving reporters the "Hell no!" about a VP spot or a Presidential run since 2001. It's not like this is a sudden surge of denials.

People's minds constantly change. And McCain is making "overature" noises, so don't write her off.

 

[Darkniciad]

I just think she's too intelligent to wade into that mud pit *laugh*

It would be seriously bad news for the Dem victor, though. Most VP choices are almost irrelevant except in one or two states, but all the people who think McCain is going to keel over in the next four years will put his VP choice a lot more front and center.

People's minds constantly change. And McCain is making "overature" noises, so don't write her off.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And having a classical pianist in the White House would just be good for the country, no?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Rob Paul 4 Life.

Peace.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I can't imagine anybody on the far right voting for Obama. They might as well vote for Stalin. And if you read some of the far right's posts here and on other political forums, they think Obama is Stalin.

Personally, I think the next Presidency, or the one after that, will be the last Presidency of a coast-to-coast U.S. The divides in the U.S. are now too wide to be crossed. And politics in the States consists in large part of widening those divides.

Sad.

No, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. That was just an acorn that fell from a tree and hit you. They fall all the time. It would take far more than that to present any long-term problem.

 

[rgraham666]

Box, was it really necessary to insult me?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I entirely want to make a snyde comment about insulting people. But, I'm not that guy. Needless to say, its not right, its not necessary.

(I'm not saying you did, Box, I'm actually restraining myself from going on a tangent)

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box, was it really necessary to insult me?

I'm sorry if I insulted you, Rob. I really didn't mean to. I was just saying your comments seemed to be going off the deep end. You must know that the USA has been through much more divisive times than right now. The Sixties and Seventies and Nineties, to name some recent ones, and there were others, even worse, many years ago.

 

[S-Des]

I can't imagine anybody on the far right voting for Obama. They might as well vote for Stalin. And if you read some of the far right's posts here and on other political forums, they think Obama is Stalin.

Personally, I think the next Presidency, or the one after that, will be the last Presidency of a coast-to-coast U.S. The divides in the U.S. are now too wide to be crossed. And politics in the States consists in large part of widening those divides.

Sad.

There is no one from the Far-Right (that I'm aware of) here at Lit. I don't know how many people here just assume what the Right thinks, and how many actually take the time to find out (although all the Fox news comments give me a pretty good idea). Brooks from the Times had been supporting Obama, although he's gotten more negative on him lately. A couple of the talk radio guys have expressed support for him (not the idiots like Limbaugh & Hannity, but the real Conservatives) and have had a number of guests on who've agreed with them. The thing is, McCain isn't Conservative, so they aren't going to get their way, no matter what. Once they start from that perspective, supporting the guy who proposes the idea of helping to heal the long-standing racial wounds of the country sounds very appealing. Personally, I don't believe it for a second. No man can "fix" anything like that, and many people have no interest in having it fixed (it kind of ruins their whole cottage industry ).

 

[S-Des]

I predict that one year from today the thing will be mostly history, with the only "hangover" being that a chastened financial system will be a bit more prudent and cautious about lending money - not a bad thing.

There was a very long interview on To The Point a week ago with a Conservative economist from Bear Stearns, a Liberal economist, and someone to address the situation from a world-view. The most rosy appraisal was nowhere near as rosy as what you just said. I can't say you're wrong (and I'm not an economist so I won't even try), but when housing value drops, everyone is affected. I have a friend trying to sell his house (for a year now) and even dropping his price $20k hasn't helped. By trapping him there, he's bleeding money and will not get his money back, no matter how long he waits. A year is going to do nothing for people in that situation. It's not going to help the ones who had to declare bankruptcy either.

 

[S-Des]

I just think she's too intelligent to wade into that mud pit *laugh*

It would be seriously bad news for the Dem victor, though. Most VP choices are almost irrelevant except in one or two states, but all the people who think McCain is going to keel over in the next four years will put his VP choice a lot more front and center.

I just don't see what she brings to the ticket. People on the Left despise her, she hasn't been elected to anything so has no base of support (besides Conservatives), and has no political operation to help raise money. On top of that, if Obama gets nominated, then suddenly there is a black candidate on the Republican ticket, you'll hear howls of "token black" from the Left (which kind of defeats the whole intent of trying to heal). While she's very intelligent and has good experience, it's mostly gained under Bush. That's far from a ringing endorsement in most people's book.

I'm still pulling for Jindal.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm sorry if I insulted you, Rob. I really didn't mean to. I was just saying your comments seemed to be going off the deep end. You must know that the USA has been through much more divisive times than right now. The Sixties and Seventies and Nineties, to name some recent ones, and there were others, even worse, many years ago.

I do think, though, that these times are as divisive as anything we've ever been through. How we deal with it might-- I hope-- be a bit different, but this is pretty bad. really.

It's common for the right to dismiss liberal carpings on things like fair justice, and point at things like porkbarrelling instead. But we have become the bad guys in the eyes of the world. Bad guys, like the USSR of the sixties. Ultimately, I do not want to be a citizen of that kind of country. If we can't begin to get back on track, I and my family will pull up stakes-- In poverty if necessary, our money-thinkers might want to know. If enough people think that way I do--- well.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

For those of us old enough to remember (boy, do we remember!) Viet Nam, the current kerfuffle is nothing more than reruns. We were "hated" just as badly then, were just as "divided" then, were just as name-calling and stupid labeling then.

Maybe I remember better than those who are only a few years younger than I am because I was in the UC in the '60's and the Army during the war but please take my word for it. This is nothing new. It isn't even as violent, so let those whose bank accounts enlarge every time they publish another jeremiad go fuck themselves. The world isn't going to end, the republic won't fall and there will still be someone telling you to eat your vegetables in the morning.

 

[S-Des]

I do think, though, that these times are as divisive as anything we've ever been through.

Not even remotely close.

But we have become the bad guys in the eyes of the world. Bad guys, like the USSR of the sixties.

I'm just flabbergasted that with everything going on in the world, this matters to anyone. I stopped worrying about being popular in Junior High. Personally, I'm more worried about us finding ways to fight hunger and support struggling nations then in what some poll says.

BTW, if you're honestly that concerned about our world image, then I'm sure you were furious when the press completely ignored George Bush's African trip (when Bob Geldoff said he had done more for the African nations than any President in our history).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not even remotely close.


I'm just flabbergasted that with everything going on in the world, this matters to anyone. I stopped worrying about being popular in Junior High. Personally, I'm more worried about us finding ways to fight hunger and support struggling nations then in what some poll says.

BTW, if you're honestly that concerned about our world image, then I'm sure you were furious when the press completely ignored George Bush's African trip (when Bob Geldoff said he had done more for the African nations than any President in our history).

A poll?

High school?

WTF-- are you seriously comparing the cold war to your highschool days?

Take any Russian citizen who was trapped into the situation his country's government had created.

ASk them if it reminds them of High School

Bear, i remember Vietnam, I was there too. America was hated somewhat, then. Nothing like now-- nothing. You know why? because we've done it again.

 

[S-Des]

A poll?

High school?

WTF-- are you seriously comparing the cold war to your highschool days?

No, I'm saying that living your life wondering what other people think about you is a complete waste of time. If you believe that Russian, China, Iran, Pakistan, or India are vastly more popular places, in terms of goodwill, vacation spots, or places people would like to live, then I would disagree. But a poll where somebody can say, "Yeah, America sucks!"? If that's what you want to worry about, it's your right. I won't. I certainly hope no leader of the country does.