Motherhood

[Ishmael]

Perhaps arguement is too strong of a word choice. Debate then. You can posit this to the board and get lots of responses none of which know the context of which the comment was made, why it was made, who you were talking to, etc. etc.

Therefore, you just invited an arguement to be started among the ENTIRE posting community to prove your point, whatever point it was to whomever.

Ish, If you disapprove of someone calling their daughter a bitch, then say it to them. The rest of us have no foundation in which to judge, and in fact, should not be judging at all.

Also, considering that you and I don't have wombs, any discussion of motherhood should be left to those who actually experience such things....just as a safety precaution if nothing else.

Context was simple Rhys, it was uttered in anger.

And what would be the proper context to call your sub-teen daughter a bitch in anger Rhys? Do you think a swat on the ass might have been kinder in the long run?

On that point you are right. So fucking sue me. <shrug> It's not like you haven't been there, done that. Differently I will admit, but the goal is much the same. Ya know?

And no one here knows who I talk to, except Spence and according to him I talk to no one. *chuckle*

What do you call your child Rhys?

Ishmael

 

[kbate]

My honest reply:

I do not find any expression of the English language unacceptable, providing that the communication is understood by both parties and is clear, concise and to the point. If the child has been reared to understand what the word means in various contexts, then I have no problem with use of any word by any person. I prefer honesty and truthfulness with children and indeed with all social interaction - not political correctness and wishy-washiness. My children have heard me and S. call each other "bitch" more than once and will hear it again. It falls to us - to teach the children what we are saying, why and when it is acceptable - not for society to thrust linguistic norms onto us as our own values.

A parent should have better options than vulgarity - but profanity and vulgarity are not synonymous and proper use of profanity can be both informative, and educational.

 

[Rhys]

Context was simple Rhys, it was uttered in anger.

And what would be the proper context to call your sub-teen daughter a bitch in anger Rhys? Do you think a swat on the ass might have been kinder in the long run?

On that point you are right. So fucking sue me. <shrug> It's not like you haven't been there, done that. Differently I will admit, but the goal is much the same. Ya know?

And no one here knows who I talk to, except Spence and according to him I talk to no one. *chuckle*

What do you call your child Rhys?

Ishmael

I don't have a child. No room to comment.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't have a child. No room to comment.

IT WAS ALL A HOAX????????

Bitch.

Ishmael

 

[Rhys]

IT WAS ALL A HOAX????????

Bitch.

Ishmael

Ishmael,

I tolerate you, and find you amusing to talk to most of the time. However, you just trod into the territory that is not your business, and never was.

I hope whatever point you were trying to prove was worth it.

 

[Ishmael]

My honest reply:

I do not find any expression of the English language unacceptable, providing that the communication is understood by both parties and is clear, concise and to the point. If the child has been reared to understand what the word means in various contexts, then I have no problem with use of any word by any person. I prefer honesty and truthfulness with children and indeed with all social interaction - not political correctness and wishy-washiness. My children have heard me and S. call each other "bitch" more than once and will hear it again. It falls to us - to teach the children what we are saying, why and when it is acceptable - not for society to thrust linguistic norms onto us as our own values.

A parent should have better options than vulgarity - but profanity and vulgarity are not synonymous and proper use of profanity can be both informative, and educational.

I would first of all suggest to you that the English language isn't all that complicated. And further, that a child may not be attuned to the nuances that you are implying here. I would further suggest that you and S get your act together on this. Under your umbrella would it be accecptable to call your sub-teen son, should you have had one, a 'little bastard' merely because you were spontaneously angry? If this is how you treat the blood of your blood, what can friends and acquaintances expect?

I learned many vulgarities in my youth. Starting from the age of 8. None of which I ever heard from my parents. Until one day, while I was driving with my father from Omaha to Minneapolis in the winter, and he let me drive, and I damn near lost it on an icy curve in Iowa, he uttered "fuck." He managed to live his entire life without the need for vulgarity. Well, except for when he thought I'd killed him. But he got over that, he even blushed.

Ishmael

 

[Darktan]

So you're on the phone with some woman and you hear her call her sub-teen daughter a "bitch."

What's your reaction?

Ishmael

Totally unacceptable.

While it is acceptable to call the sub in a D/s relationship a bitch from what I understand, having your own teenage daughter as a sub might be a bit awkward.

 

[bronzeage]

I don't tell a woman how to raise their children unless she should happen to be raising mine.

 

[JBCorbell]

I would first of all suggest to you that the English language isn't all that complicated. And further, that a child may not be attuned to the nuances that you are implying here. I would further suggest that you and S get your act together on this. Under your umbrella would it be accecptable to call your sub-teen son, should you have had one, a 'little bastard' merely because you were spontaneously angry? If this is how you treat the blood of your blood, what can friends and acquaintances expect?

I learned many vulgarities in my youth. Starting from the age of 8. None of which I ever heard from my parents. Until one day, while I was driving with my father from Omaha to Minneapolis in the winter, and he let me drive, and I damn near lost it on an icy curve in Iowa, he uttered "fuck." He managed to live his entire life without the need for vulgarity. Well, except for when he thought I'd killed him. But he got over that, he even blushed.

Ishmael

Ish, I agree totally on this topic. My experiences were similar when I was growing up. My parents seldom swore and then never at people but at situations. i've tried to follow their example over the years, albeit not entirely successfully.

There is no excuse for abusing children, physically, verbally or any other way.

 

[Ishmael]

Ish, I agree totally on this topic. My experiences were similar when I was growing up. My parents seldom swore and then never at people but at situations. i've tried to follow their example over the years, albeit not entirely successfully.

There is no excuse for abusing children, physically, verbally or any other way.

This is true.

Ishmael

 

[Redatlit]

Unacceptable.

 

[Lavared]

If she called her daughter that to her face: bad. If she was venting on the phone with a friend and her daughter was in another room and couldn't hear her: much more understandable.

 

[Curvybeauty]

I think it sounds vulgar and shows a lack of respect.

 

[Mrs.H]

Unacceptable, no matter WHAT!!

Guess I'm one of those "old fashioned" parents who loves and nutures my children. I'd NEVER call them a name.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

There is a time and place to swear at your daughters. While talking on the phone to someone else would NOT be the place.

I have called my daughters a bitch before - right after they called ME a bitch and said they hated me. We would scream for a few more minutes and then it would be over. Later we would laugh about it. Sometimes you just gotta vent.

 

[Peregrinator]

I understand what kbate is saying, but I can think of no circumstance under which I would call my child a name like that. It's poor modeling, disrespectful, and based on the feelings in that moment of the person using the word.

 

[kbate]

I would first of all suggest to you that the English language isn't all that complicated. And further, that a child may not be attuned to the nuances that you are implying here. I would further suggest that you and S get your act together on this. Under your umbrella would it be accecptable to call your sub-teen son, should you have had one, a 'little bastard' merely because you were spontaneously angry? If this is how you treat the blood of your blood, what can friends and acquaintances expect?

I learned many vulgarities in my youth. Starting from the age of 8. None of which I ever heard from my parents. Until one day, while I was driving with my father from Omaha to Minneapolis in the winter, and he let me drive, and I damn near lost it on an icy curve in Iowa, he uttered "fuck." He managed to live his entire life without the need for vulgarity. Well, except for when he thought I'd killed him. But he got over that, he even blushed.

I would suggest that you lose the imperious tone - it is unwarranted and unseemly. I also suggest that you do not instruct me on the rearing of my children - my children will know when I am angry and when I am using a profanity for the sake of swearing - that is education.

Your story about learning the word "fuck" is cute but irrelevant. That your parents did not educate you as to the meaning and usages of that word, and other words considered to be 'profane' - and the proper times to use them - is your loss and their failing.

If I should call my son "bastard" or my daughter "bitch" they will know exactly what I am saying and why. I did not say anywhere that I would do such - but I do not intend to hide the language from them. You are too busy trying to push your morality onto me and others as concerns this issue. You could be writing hate-crimes law for the democrats from the posts you have made in this thread.

 

[kbate]

I understand what kbate is saying, but I can think of no circumstance under which I would call my child a name like that. It's poor modeling, disrespectful, and based on the feelings in that moment of the person using the word.

If you repress your feelings in order to present a politically correct model of a parent - you are doing a disservice to your child greater than if you express your feelings and explain why you feel that way.

Nobody ever learned from repression.

 

[Never]

It depends on the household.

My own use of language is so pure that butter would have trouble melting in my mouth. If I called someone a bitch to their face, they've probably done something truly hideous.

On the other hand, it's possible obscenities are tossed around like flapjacks in other houses.

"You borrowed my sweater? Bitch!" says mom.
"Don't sweat it, cuntface," replies the daughter.

Then they join hands and sing Our House.

 

[ksmybuttons]

The son was out of school yesterday because he was sick -- pre-teen.

We were sitting on the couch watching a movie and we were covered up with a blanket. He pulled the blanket off of me with a devilish smile on his face. I called him a "little shit." He cracked up laughing.

Like kbate, I think it's important for children to learn about profanity...it's use is totally different from when I was a child to its use today. Profanity can be used to inflame a situation or defuse it. He's learning both. He's also learning how to use it infrequently so that it has impact...we discuss it's role in the language AND I have always told him that it is best learned wisely with me than unwisely with his friends.

And Ish, your father must have been born before the turn of the century and what in the hell was he doing letting a child drive a car? Sounds like he had poor judgment in many areas...shit, he raised you...

 

[glo33]

If you repress your feelings in order to present a politically correct model of a parent - you are doing a disservice to your child greater than if you express your feelings and explain why you feel that way.

Nobody ever learned from repression.

It is not about repressing your feelings...if my children are disrespectful to me or hurt me i let them know, immediately..even now that they are still very young...and i tend to kneel down to their eye level ...i find it easier to talk to them that way...and being on their same *hight*, in a situation of equality, helps me controlling the urge to yell at them so i can talk to them calmly and very effectively....and they really listen and understand and believe it...they remember because i made sense to them that way...but i dont do that using profanities or bad words....you can argue and explain your point very effectively without calling your kids names.....

it takes a lot of effort, but it is very important to me.

but of course this is just what i do and that doesn't make it right to everybody's eyes..and i am not saying others methods are wrong...this is just what i am conformable with

...of course i yell with my hubby....*and i call him names*

 

[Guest]

Actions speak louder than words. She should have just smacked the little bitch. Problem solved.

 

[Sean]

In anger and the discussion wasn't about dogs (or bitches in that context).

Ishmael

Being on the phone to you would cause anyone to lose control of their vocabulary.

 

[ksmybuttons]

It depends on the household.

My own use of language is so pure that butter would have trouble melting in my mouth. If I called someone a bitch to their face, they've probably done something truly hideous.

On the other hand, it's possible obscenities are tossed around like flapjacks in other houses.

"You borrowed my sweater? Bitch!" says mom.
"Don't sweat it, cuntface," replies the daughter.

Then they join hands and sing Our House.

We rarely use profanity in our house, but the son knows what it is. When I called him a little shit, he was totally delighted.

I'm not surprised about the behavior of the person on the phone with Ish. She was talking to Ish.

 

[Never]

We rarely use profanity in our house, but the son knows what it is. When I called him a little shit, he was totally delighted.

I'm not surprised about the behavior of the person on the phone with Ish. She was talking to Ish.

You don't need to explain. I don't consider swearing inherently bad. It just something I don't do.

I imagine Ish is rather pleasant on the phone.