2-4% of people have Aphantasia (No visual imigery)

[OddLove]

So today, I was talking with someone and 'imagination' came up. As we were talking, I realized other people actually see what they're thinking about in their mind. If they think of an apple, they can close their eyes and legitimately vision it. The redness, the little stim with the leaf, maybe some light reflecting off it's shiny surface.

Then I went and fell down a rabbit hole trying to figure out why I can't see anything when I close my eyes, and why when I 'imagine' an apple, I just hear myself describing it with words while I see black. Turns out it's Aphantasia, and 2-4% of humans have it. Which is actually a ton, it's about 160 million to 320 million people.

Some how I made it to 34 years before realizing other people can actually see things instead of just describe it internally with words.

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

 

[mildlyaroused]

I think we have to make an important distinction between "thinking" of something and "imagining" it.

To me, imagining something involves conjuring it up in my mind and yes, I do that visually (to an extent). I dunno how much this varies, but I can't close my eyes, picture an apple, and just have that apple stay there like a photo. It shifts and morphs and disappears depending on my thoughts. The things I picture visually are very slippery and hard to maintain as static images.

But I can also "imagine" things without visualising them - I "imagine" all my characters and stories before writing them, but I don't necessarily do this visually. I think imagination more comes down to creating a mental concept of something, be that visual or otherwise.

But here's the thing: that doesn't mean I think in pictures.

Most people can think verbally too, not exclusively in pictures. We might have internal monologues, or we might simply "think" without visualising, as you do. Or we can both think and visualise. When I imagine an apple, I might picture it, but I also know it's called an apple. I still have that structure and language to my thoughts. Same goes for characters, settings, actions: I can picture them but that doesn't mean my thoughts are comprised solely of their pictures.

 

[TheRedLantern]

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

I see the scene in my head, usually complete with sound which is very important to me. I also try to engage my other senses when envisioning the scene. Usually it has to "play out" in my head at least a few dozen times from each character's perspective before I'm ready to write.

Then I write it down, and the words start to take over as the "source of truth" unless I go back to a passage and it's unclear and I need to summon that mental image again. Usually my first drafts are a mess because it's an attempt to take something sensory/emotional and capture the important parts with words, phrases, and sentences.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

So today, I was talking with someone and 'imagination' came up. As we were talking, I realized other people actually see what they're thinking about in their mind. If they think of an apple, they can close their eyes and legitimately vision it. The redness, the little stim with the leaf, maybe some light reflecting off it's shiny surface.

Then I went and fell down a rabbit hole trying to figure out why I can't see anything when I close my eyes, and why when I 'imagine' an apple, I just hear myself describing it with words while I see black. Turns out it's Aphantasia, and 2-4% of humans have it. Which is actually a ton, it's about 160 million to 320 million people.

Some how I made it to 34 years before realizing other people can actually see things instead of just describe it internally with words.

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

As mildlyaroused said above, the ability to imagine something visually doesn't automatically mean that's your primary way of thinking or imagining.

There are people who primarily think in pictures and then have to sort of translate that into words. There are also people who think almost exclusively in fully formed sentences. But most people seem to be a mix

Personally, I think mostly in concepts or connected ideas - often including a visual element - without detailing them out in sentences. Then when I need to say or write something about it, I spell things out. When I was a kid, this caused me to often think for a long time before speaking, because I needed to translate my thoughts into something which could be verbalized. Now, the translation happens automatically without me considering it. But when I got a medical treatment which affected my brain, I suddenly had to work harder on the translation again temporarily.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have a very strong visual mind, but also an uncanny knack of using words to describe what's in my imagination. I can't explain the process because it's the only way of thinking (and writing) that I've got. Readers sometimes thank me for sharing my "gift", and sometimes I think that's what it is.

But all it really is is my neurological thought process, not something that can be, nor needs to be, analysed.

 

[TheOtherTeacher]

I know I have terrible visual memory, especially for faces. If I'm not looking at you I don't know what you look like. (I memorize facts like long brown hair, but I don't remember the appearance of the hair).

Of course the moment I look at a person, I know who they are. But as soon as I look away, I go back to memorized facts.

I realised a few years ago why other people care so much about their appearance... because other people can remember what they look like!
Even right now I'm about 6 months since my last haircut because it's just the random fluff that sits on top of my head. I don't know what it's like until I find a mirror. And if I can't remember it, surely it's not important!

Regarding images in my head, I'd say I see the concept of something. If you ask me to imagine an apple, I'll imagine the concept of an apple. It will be apple shaped, both green and red at the same time unless specified to think of a 'red' apple. It won't be a specific apple. It will be every apple I've ever seen.

How does this affect my writing? Simple - I never describe my characters! Other than stock facts like tall, green eyed, long brown hair, well endowed etc, I don't describe them. I leave that to the reader.

It more affects me is as a reader. If you spend more than one paragraph telling me in minute detail about a character's face, you've lost me.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

Oh I still think with words. If I see something real I can describe it, write it down. If I see something in my head, I can describe it, write it down just the same. The other thing to do is to see something real, keep that picture in your head and edit it. Give that old lady a mohawk and dye it pink, etc. Then describe it and write it down.

I can also imagine sounds in my head just as easily or even easier. I don't really need an mp3 player to listen to music when I work. I can play songs (that I know well enough) in my head as if I'm listening to them. I can also edit those too.

My older cousin was a songwriter and my aunt (her Mom) told me, "You know, she hears those songs in her head before she writes them!" and I said, "Yep, m-hm," because I could do the same. And my aunt said, "but no she actually hears the songs in her head! In her head!" And I was like, "Yep, m-hm."

 

[Z_TheWriter]

I know I have terrible visual memory, especially for faces. If I'm not looking at you I don't know what you look like. (I memorize facts like long brown hair, but I don't remember the appearance of the hair).

Of course the moment I look at a person, I know who they are. But as soon as I look away, I go back to memorized facts.

I'm so fascinated by face-blindness, because I have it, but only temporarily. When I meet someone new, ~30 seconds after separating I no longer remember what they look like and often not their name either - even someone I talked to for an hour or more. I can remember all sorts of things they told me, but not their name or appearance. Once I've learned them, however, I remember both pretty well - for a long time even if I no longer see that person. Usually, this happens already the second time I meet them.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

Here's a question. How did you think before you learned to speak?

I have memories from very very early ages. I remember them in English but I know that I couldn't understand English yet. My brain translates the memories into English today.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Here's a question. How did you think before you learned to speak?

I have memories from very very early ages. I remember them in English but I know that I couldn't understand English yet. My brain translates the memories into English today.

Interesting. My very early memories are entirely wordless. A picture of a scene, an emotion I felt, the feeling or sound of the wind. I never considered someone might retroactively have translated those into words.

 

[mildlyaroused]

Here's a question. How did you think before you learned to speak?

I have memories from very very early ages. I remember them in English but I know that I couldn't understand English yet. My brain translates the memories into English today.

This is a great way to capture the fact that thought "just is", regardless of whether or not we have aphantasia - thinking isn't constrained by any form or method or language of thought. It justs exists! I can't not think, but I can choose not to picture something visually. So I think a large portion of life is the same for people who can't visualise things as for people who can.

If I had to sum my thoughts up (haha), I'd say picturing things takes effort and intention... whereas thoughts just ARE. They are my consciousness, and my consciousness is thought. Visualising something for me takes conscious effort, whereas thinking is just what my existence looks like.

 

[ColtonWrites]

I can picture things in my mind if I want to. If you say "picture an apple" I can picture an apple. I generally don't if not specifically asked to do so, but I can.

Conversely, though, I'm pretty close to face-blind. Like I will recognize my wife when she walks into a room, but my method of recognizing people is not by what their face looks like. Its more about....vibes? The way someone walks, the way they dress, their haircut, the sound of their voice.

I used to think that people being able to recognize someone they only met briefly was a thing made up for crime dramas on TV.

When I write, the scenes definitely unfold in written words as a first draft. Once it exists I can run through it like a video of the scene - but only after I have written it.
As far as pre-speech memory: I simply dont have any. My earliest memories start around kindergarten/1st grade and remain very sketchy for years. Even my recent memory isn't made up of, like, scenes I can walk through- its single flat images like a photograph with an attached description and maybe an emotional component.

 

[crookedletter]

I think I think in language -- images too, though maybe less than some -- until I go to write my thoughts and it turns out I still need to find the words. It's frustrating and fascinating all at once.

For me, at least, and I assume most people, thought is a nebulous thing, it's like a sensory experience all its own. Externally we believe we perceive the world primarily in images, and many of us do, but if you become cut off from hearing or smell that experience flattens, changes. I feel suddenly claustrophobic if I can't hear what's going on around me, though I can see fine.

Internal thoughts are the same. They're not one thing. People who can conjure images in their mind don't think only in images, any more than a person with all their external senses doesn't only perceive color. And when we think in language -- or at least when I do -- I don't think it's as explicitly so as it can seem.

Think of holding an idea in your mind, with all its nuance and complexity. It's not an image, maybe there are words swirling around the idea. But sometimes I think I've got a real solid epiphany going on, I've cracked it, then I open my mouth to let it out and something like Yeah, trees are cool comes spilling out.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

As far as pre-speech memory: I simply dont have any.

Oh I look through Mom's old photo album of me when I'm three or four months old I clearly remember her taking the pictures. I absolutely remember the moment. Not all of them, but a few of them.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Here's a question. How did you think before you learned to speak?

I have memories from very very early ages. I remember them in English but I know that I couldn't understand English yet. My brain translates the memories into English today.

I think you have hit on the crux of it. Language is the means by which we organize the pictures (or sounds) in our heads into abstractions that can be organized into complex thoughts and communicated to others.

 

[Bramblethorn]

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...ing-your-story-with-your-‘minds-eye’.1572811/

 

[cw5523729]

Here's a question. How did you think before you learned to speak?

I have memories from very very early ages. I remember them in English but I know that I couldn't understand English yet. My brain translates the memories into English today.

Richard Feynman said in one of his books: Picture the funky shape of an engine crankshaft in your head. Now, what words did you use in your head to visualize it?

Totally unrelated - I read somewhere than whenever some starts a joke "A man walks into a bar", you always picture the exact same bar in your mind's eye.

 

[redgarters]

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

That is so interesting. Made me think about my process. When I'm writing I usually imagine/think of the scenes like a movie. I 'see' them like that, sometimes even with music and sounds.

 

[IWroteThis]

So now I'm wondering, how do people even write if they're thinking in pictures? How do you think of something visually then write it down if you don't think with words?

I've mentioned it on several occasions in comments and my bio, but I compare it to writing the novelization of a movie. I create the characters, give them the basic scenario, turn them loose in my head, and write down what they do and say.

That's not how all of my stories come to me, and I'm working on being more proactive in my writing, but certain stories still play out in my head like a movie as I write them.

 

[AG31]

This has been discussed before, but it's always fun.

they can close their eyes

People who are not aphantasic don't need to close their eyes to think in visual terms.

Some how I made it to 34 years before realizing other people can actually see things instead of just describe it internally with words.

Both my son and I didn't realize we had no visual imagery until we were in our thirties.

If I'm not looking at you I don't know what you look like.

I don't know what I look like. I recognize me in pictures... but that's it.

If I'm not looking at you I don't know what you look like. (I memorize facts like long brown hair, but I don't remember the appearance of the hair).

Yes take mental note.

 

[Off_base]

So, those of you who can't visualize things, what are your memories like?
Do you only recall words, not faces or people? How do you remember things you've seen?

I don't think I'd read at all, if I couldn't imagine what anything or anyone looked like. That would just be passing my eyes over words.

 

[AG31]

Even some academic publications have taken the position that people who say they have no (or little) visual imagery just don't understand what is meant by the term.

Three or four times in my 80 years I have had visual images. Fleeting, some in dreams (can't remember), but I absolutely know they were different from my normal experience.

A useful term is "constructs." People with aphantasia think in constructs. You can't process words fast enough to think that people without visual imagery think in terms of words.

I've come up with this strategy to explain to people with visual imagery what it's like for us aphantasics.

Ask them what is in their mind when they think of the following things. Point out that you're looking for what's in their mind BEFORE they cast about for an appropriate image for xxxxxxxxx. Xxxxxxx is in their mind, with no picture, at that point.

ambiguity
conundrum
harmony
integrity
ambiguity
Possibility
Identity
Meaning
Continuity
Paradox

 

[AG31]

So, those of you who can't visualize things, what are your memories like?
Do you only recall words, not faces or people? How do you remember things you've seen?

I don't think I'd read at all, if I couldn't imagine what anything or anyone looked like. That would just be passing my eyes over words.

See post #22

 

[Off_base]

See post #22

You have no visual memory?
How do you remember how to get home?

 

[AG31]

You have no visual memory?
How do you remember how to get home?

Yes, that's where it's very visible. Hubby now understands that he can't say "turn left after the bridge." I say, "What bridge?" (Bridges you drive over a river, not big, big bridges... those warrant a mental note.)

I still have to stop and think hard about various complicated turns in our neighborhood. East coast, where cows laid out the streets.

We joke that if I get lost I'd just drive until I hit the circumference road around our city, and then I'd find a familiar exit and go from there.