Never sure how to pick a category

[TheExperimentalist]

I get it if there's a central theme that a story focuses on, but good stories will often be multi-dimensional, flowing into different areas, moods, and themes. A lot of the categories that exist are not mutually exclusive (e.g. T/I and Anal are very common to see combined, though T/I usually seems to override whatever other themes a story has, so a better example might be Lesbian and First Time, or EV and Mature), and some sets of categories even have a lot of intrinsic overlap (the lines between BDSM and Fetish can be unclear sometimes, Sci-Fi/Fantasy seems like a near superset of NonHuman, and I'm never really sure what the difference between Romance and EC is.)

A lot of my works in progress are ending up somewhat ambiguous, written with the intent of being a satisfying story, rather than fitting neatly into any particular category.

So I guess my question is "if there are multiple themes that all have equal weight in a story, how do you pick a category?"

 

[iwatchus]

There is a good piece (written several years ago by Tx Tall Tales) called Love Your Readers: Categories

BTW, this link is given in my How To Be An Author on Literatica

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

There is a good piece (written several years ago by Tx Tall Tales) called Love Your Readers: Categories

BTW, this link is given in my How To Be An Author on Literatica

I have found these to be incredibly useful. 10/10 for both - they are on my writing tips reading lists.

 

[YmaOHyd]

So I guess my question is "if there are multiple themes that all have equal weight in a story, how do you pick a category?"

Hierarchy of Squick, aka, "what are the readers most likely to get mad about?". The Tx Tall Tales essay is about right here.

To touch on the two specific examples you have there: sci-fi/fantasy stories generally do not take place in this world. Non-human stories do, with the exception of the existence of the non-human element. "I am a starship pilot whose girlfriend is a catgirl" is a sci-fi story. "I am an overnight gas station attendant whose girlfriend is a catgirl" is a non-human story.

Romance stories are about how the characters get together, EC stories are about what they do when they're together. That's the simplest way to put that. Romance is about the courting and the seduction and the slow burn; EC is about fuckin'. It is the biggest catch-all category possible and if you can find a reason for your story to be in another category, it probably should be.

As long as you basically obey the trump rules, it doesn't matter that much. Categorizing your story is a lot less about getting it perfectly right and more about not getting it catastrophically wrong. Putting a story where three girls have a threesome in Lesbian Sex instead of Group Sex is basically fine, whatever. Putting a story where someone has a super thinly-disguised sexual assault fantasy into erotic couplings? Your story is going to be reported for rules violations if the site doesn't move it themselves.

 

[caleb35]

I don't know if this will help or not, but we had a related thread the other day. In that thread, some authors were arguing that there are "trump" categories that basically amount to, if your story has one of those elements (ex. Reluc/NonCon; Taboo/Incest; etc.) than readers expect your story to go in that category, regardless of other considerations or applicable possible categorizations.

Choosing categories, at least as they are currently structured on Literotica, is not a fun exercise, which somehow manages to be both restrictive and with a lot of overlap simultaneously. Quoting from the thread that @iwatchus recommended, choosing the category is likely the part of the process where authors have the least choice (paradoxically).

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/choosing-a-category-for-lesbian-reluctance.1645641/

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Lots of great advice already, but two notes of my own.

The more "basic" categories like oral and anal only come into play if that's the main focus of the story. So generally shorter stories (exceptions abound).

When in doubt between Romance and EC, go EC. EC readers will forgive a little romance as long as there is some good sex. Romance readers WANT lots of romance, and will vote accordingly if it's lacking.

 

[SimonDoom]

I also encourage you to read the TxTallTales article. It addresses this issue effectively.

It's not dogma. Most of the time, there are choices you can make.

One question you have to ask yourself is this: Which is more important to you, a high score, or more readers? Some categories get far more readers than others, but if you post your story in them you might get some hostility from those who don't think your particular kink fits there. You have to decide for yourself if you are willing to put up with that in exchange for getting more total readers.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

There is a good piece (written several years ago by Tx Tall Tales) called Love Your Readers: Categories

BTW, this link is given in my How To Be An Author on Literatica

Thanks. These are very helpful. A lot of it I had intuited already (I even sorta mentioned, in my original post, that T/I seems to override everything else, or be a "trump category", as the colloquial parlance seems to be), but a lot of the nuances between the different categories were clarified. I have a much better idea of what to do with the majority of my works in progress than I did before.

Thanks to everyone else as well who's offered clarification.

It seems like pee play is a "trump kink", so I'm pretty sure my current work that's ready to go up belongs more in Fetish than BDSM, even though it has a fair focus on the latter as well.

On the other hand, despite the helpful guidance, I do still have a couple of WIPs that I'm entirely unsure of where to put. (I have one in particular with a LOT of romantic backstory that I would consider the story's main focus, but due to the nature of the romance, the mood calls for a pretty intense and primal mutual pain play scene, including a bonus swallow of female ejaculation.) I guess I'll ask for more specific advice on the ones I'm still unsure of once they're are ready for posting, though.

Thanks again.

 

[YmaOHyd]

It seems like pee play is a "trump kink", so I'm pretty sure my current work that's ready to go up belongs more in Fetish than BDSM, even though it has a fair focus on the latter as well.

Yep. That is a correct diagnosis.

On the other hand, despite the helpful guidance, I do still have a couple of WIPs that I'm entirely unsure of where to put. (I have one in particular with a LOT of romantic backstory that I would consider the story's main focus, but due to the nature of the romance, the mood calls for a pretty intense and primal mutual pain play scene, including a bonus swallow of female ejaculation.)

Absent a specific BDSM relationship, I'd say that's probably a Fetish story too. The prototypical romance story is something like: a hot business guy crashes his private plane into a woman's flower farm, decides she's amazing and sets out to woo her.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Absent a specific BDSM relationship, I'd say that's probably a Fetish story too. The prototypical romance story is something like: a hot business guy crashes his private plane into a woman's flower farm, decides she's amazing and sets out to woo her.

I guess my one issue with that is that I've seen a lot of comments complaining that a story was too slow/unsexy/tedious if there's a lot of not-overtly-sexual relationship buildup before getting to "the good part"... But to me, a large part of "the good part" IS the emotional context. If a story calls for that emotional context to be drawn out and not overtly sexual until it kicks into overdrive, that's how I'll write it.

I know I have a lot to offer, it's just annoying that it's so complicated to figure out how to present it.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I guess my one issue with that is that I've seen a lot of comments complaining that a story was too slow/unsexy/tedious if there's a lot of not-overtly-sexual relationship buildup before getting to "the good part"... But to me, a large part of "the good part" IS the emotional context. If a story calls for that emotional context to be drawn out and not overtly sexual until it kicks into overdrive, that's how I'll write it.

I know I have a lot to offer, it's just annoying that it's so complicated to figure out how to present it.

I think you can get away with quite a lot of it if the emotional context is interesting and the "good part" is good enough. The unforgivable sin is writing the good part bad, and the easiest way to do that is having a mismatch with reader expectations. Every category has enough readers who want emotional journeys to make writing them worthwhile, but if you put pain play in front of a romance audience, the buildup is going to have to be real frickin' good for that audience to react any way other than "ick, don't like this." People sometimes get yelled at for having butt stuff in their romance stories.

 

[Britva415]

I'm never really sure what the difference between Romance and EC is.

EC tends to be casual sex, no-strings, serendipitous, and even if repeated, low emotional stakes.

Romance is so much the opposite of that that some of those stories don't even feature sex, because the emotional stakes, the gravitas, the investment, IS the turn-on.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I guess my one issue with that is that I've seen a lot of comments complaining that a story was too slow/unsexy/tedious if there's a lot of not-overtly-sexual relationship buildup before getting to "the good part"... But to me, a large part of "the good part" IS the emotional context. If a story calls for that emotional context to be drawn out and not overtly sexual until it kicks into overdrive, that's how I'll write it.

I know I have a lot to offer, it's just annoying that it's so complicated to figure out how to present it.

Slow burn does quite well in romance. I've got several highly rated stories where there is no sex until 10k or 20k words into the story.
As you get into the more kink specific categories then the tolerance for that typically goes down.
You can get away with quite a bit of kink in romance IF you build up to it. If your characters are going on a journey to establish that aspect of your relationship, then it can work. If the first time they get together it turns into a kinkfest... the viewers will grade accordingly.
Tags help in those cases as well.

 

[Britva415]

I've seen a lot of comments complaining that a story was too slow/unsexy/tedious if there's a lot of not-overtly-sexual relationship buildup

In what category?

You wouldn't get these complaints in the Romance category.

Unless it IS tedious. As long as stuff is happening, slow-burn is good. It does have to burn (smolder, simmer, absorb and/or release heat). Pages and pages of no-burn is tedious, so, "context" has to be created through events, not just descriptions/explanations of feelings.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

(I'm a new author, so this mostly comes from reading myself, and looking at the comments, just fyi.)

I guess my one issue with that is that I've seen a lot of comments complaining that a story was too slow/unsexy/tedious if there's a lot of not-overtly-sexual relationship buildup before getting to "the good part"... But to me, a large part of "the good part" IS the emotional context. If a story calls for that emotional context to be drawn out and not overtly sexual until it kicks into overdrive, that's how I'll write it.

In addition to what @Britva415 said above, there's also a matter of setting expectations within the story itself. If two young students meet in the middle of a university filled to the brim with hormones and sex, and then you watch them essentially get married and develop into a comfortable married couple before anything sexual. I'm not saying it can't be done, but you'll have to work harder to justify it to your readers than if it's a previously divorced elderly couple in a bingo club. Same for many other things, context and presentation can save you many complaints, but it can also prompt them.

Additionally, you will always get detractors who are annoyed at this particular story for deeply personal or sometimes absurd reasons. "It's too slow" is a very easy stand-in for tons of other issues which may or may not be valid.

Edit: Also tags. Not everyone will look at them beforehand, or at all. But some will have a complaint and then go "oh that's in the tags, that's on me then."

 

[TheExperimentalist]

In what category?

You wouldn't get these complaints in the Romance category.

Unless it IS tedious. As long as stuff is happening, slow-burn is good. It does have to burn (smolder, simmer, absorb and/or release heat). Pages and pages of no-burn is tedious, so, "context" has to be created through events, not just descriptions/explanations of feelings.

Yes, in categories other than Romance, that's what I mean, I was complaining about the apparent catch-22. @YmaOHyd was saying that the story I mentioned still sounded like it belonged in Fetish, rather than Romance, due to the nature of the sex once they finally get to it. I was saying that the main focus of that story is the buildup, and I've seen a lot of comments complaining about stories with a long buildup, unless they're in Romance. Basically, I'm annoyed that it seems like it'll have trouble in Fetish for being too romantic, it'll have trouble in Romance for being too kinky, and never the twain shall meet.

I do use as many tags as I can, and I also tend to include a note ahead of the story letting people know that there may be more than the category would have them expect. In addition, I include a more detailed "spoiler description" of what to expect after the main body of the story, so that people who want to screen what they read more specifically can jump to that first (and the pre-story note says so and encourages them to do so).

Though, now that I'm understanding more about categories, I think I should probably amend my policy of giving as little specifics as possible in the pre-story note, and instead have it list any and all site categories that the story could fall into other than one it's in, while also still including the tags and more detailed spoiler description at the end.

Thanks all.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Yes, in categories other than Romance, that's what I mean, I was complaining about the apparent catch-22. @YmaOHyd was saying that the story I mentioned still sounded like it belonged in Fetish, rather than Romance, due to the nature of the sex once they finally get to it. I was saying that the main focus of that story is the buildup, and I've seen a lot of comments complaining about stories with a long buildup, unless they're in Romance. Basically, I'm annoyed that it seems like it'll have trouble in Fetish for being too romantic, it'll have trouble in Romance for being too kinky, and never the twain shall meet.

I do use as many tags as I can, and I also tend to include a note ahead of the story letting people know that there may be more than the category would have them expect. In addition, I include a more detailed "spoiler description" of what to expect after the main body of the story, so that people who want to screen what they read more specifically can jump to that first (and the pre-story note says so and encourages them to do so).

Though, now that I'm understanding more about categories, I think I should probably amend my policy of giving as little specifics as possible in the pre-story note, and instead have it list any and all site categories that the story could fall into other than one it's in, while also still including the tags and more detailed spoiler description at the end.

Thanks all.

I think you may indeed just be in a shitty spot through no fault of your own. Some content combinations and styles simply aren't possible to get to the right audience without a lot of the wrong audience as well. You seem to already be doing everything possible to mitigate the problem, but it will probably remain.

It hits the limited granularity of categories, limited reader pre-vetting of what they're going to read, and the duality between people writing/reading serious and deep pieces on one hand, and reading/writing quality stuff to get off to on the other. Neither is invalid, they are also not mutually exclusive, but they bash heads a lot.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

I think you may indeed just be in a shitty spot through no fault of your own. Some content combinations and styles simply aren't possible to get to the right audience without a lot of the wrong audience as well. You seem to already be doing everything possible to mitigate the problem, but it will probably remain.

It hits the limited granularity of categories, limited reader pre-vetting of what they're going to read, and the duality between people writing/reading serious and interesting quality pieces on one hand, and reading/writing quality stuff to get off to on the other. Neither is invalid, they are also not mutually exclusive, but they bash heads a lot.

Not to sound elitist, but I guess I'm just more sophisticated than the majority of the reader base (and I say this as someone who was a reader for nearly two decades before writing a single erotic word). Personally, I have times when I just want a quick release, and times when I really want to feel something, and if I encounter one kind of story when I'm in the mood for the other, I think "okay, this is good, but not what I want right now". Heck, even if I encounter something that's not my kink at all (stories propelled by smoking and drug use, for instance), I just go "alright, not my thing" and move on. I never downvote or criticize based on my preferences, and I can recognize quality writing even if the content isn't what I enjoy. It's a shame that it sounds like most of the reader base is not like that.

Then again, I'm a weirdo who likes variety to the extreme and writes and reads in nearly all the categories. (Hence my name.) I can be into a gentle, loving incest story one day, then writing a hardcore lesbian pain play, fisting, watersports kinkfest scene the next, then suddenly get really obsessed with a long drawn out buildup to a young woman's first time and focus on that for a week and a half, before getting a new story idea about an alien species with an entirely different biology than ours and what sex and taboos are like in their world. Point is, I don't really have a single type of story that appeals to me as much as I just have certain things that really don't.

 

[TheRedLantern]

I don't have any great insights about categories beyond what's posted because I usually pick the category before I start writing or as the first draft is taking shape.

But I have to say that writing a Romance that features some heavy fetish elements sounds like an interesting challenge, although I imagine you'd have to start the story with that intention

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Not to sound elitist, but I guess I'm just more sophisticated than the majority of the reader base (and I say this as someone who was a reader for nearly two decades before writing a single erotic word). Personally, I have times when I just want a quick release, and times when I really want to feel something, and if I encounter one kind of story when I'm in the mood for the other, I think "okay, this is good, but not what I want right now". Heck, even if I encounter something that's not my kink at all (stories propelled by smoking and drug use, for instance), I just go "alright, not my thing" and move on. I never downvote or criticize based on my preferences, and I can recognize quality writing even if the content isn't what I enjoy. It's a shame that it sounds like most of the reader base is not like that.

Then again, I'm a weirdo who likes variety to the extreme and writes and reads in nearly all the categories. (Hence my name.) I can be into a gentle, loving incest story one day, then writing a hardcore lesbian pain play, fisting, watersports kinkfest scene the next, then suddenly get really obsessed with a long drawn out buildup to a young woman's first time and focus on that for a week and a half, before getting a new story idea about an alien species with an entirely different biology than ours and what sex and taboos are like in their world. Point is, I don't really have a single type of story that appeals to me as much as I just have certain things that really don't.

I can't speak to 'sophistication', nor do I have data on what a majority of readers do in these cases. But you do not need a very large number of vocal detractors before it starts to feel like a lot, especially when those who behave like you wrote about yourself are invisible.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

I can't speak to 'sophistication', nor do I have data on what a majority of readers do in these cases. But you do not need a very large number of vocal detractors before it starts to feel like a lot, especially when those who behave like you wrote about yourself are invisible.

Ain't that the truth. I've been in other content creation spaces in the past and boy howdy if those one or two persistent trolls don't getcha down.

I guess I should try to be the change I want to see on this site and start commenting ESPECIALLY on stories that aren't my thing to let them know that they're well written and that I'm giving them 5 stars anyway...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Not to sound elitist, but I guess I'm just more sophisticated than the majority of the reader base (and I say this as someone who was a reader for nearly two decades before writing a single erotic word). Personally, I have times when I just want a quick release, and times when I really want to feel something, and if I encounter one kind of story when I'm in the mood for the other, I think "okay, this is good, but not what I want right now". Heck, even if I encounter something that's not my kink at all (stories propelled by smoking and drug use, for instance), I just go "alright, not my thing" and move on. I never downvote or criticize based on my preferences, and I can recognize quality writing even if the content isn't what I enjoy. It's a shame that it sounds like most of the reader base is not like that.

Then again, I'm a weirdo who likes variety to the extreme and writes and reads in nearly all the categories. (Hence my name.) I can be into a gentle, loving incest story one day, then writing a hardcore lesbian pain play, fisting, watersports kinkfest scene the next, then suddenly get really obsessed with a long drawn out buildup to a young woman's first time and focus on that for a week and a half, before getting a new story idea about an alien species with an entirely different biology than ours and what sex and taboos are like in their world. Point is, I don't really have a single type of story that appeals to me as much as I just have certain things that really don't.

Write what you want and let the chips fall where they may.
There is a place here for darn near everything.
Tag it, put in an author's note at the beginning if you think it's really pushing the edge of the category, and see what happens.

Another option is to split it into parts and categorize the parts differently.

If you have a slow build up ending in more vanilla sex for part 1, drop it in Romance. As their relationship moves forward and they get into a particular kink, drop it into that kink's section.

 

[cw5523729]

Another option is to split it into parts and categorize the parts differently.

I tried to avoid that myself. I have a story categorized as BDSM and I put all parts of the story in it even though technically certain parts aren't in that category and some parts don't even contain any sexual content period. I tagged the individual parts correctly but it felt misleading at best to put part #14 in "romance" even if that one part falls into that category when the rest of them don't.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Write what you want and let the chips fall where they may.
There is a place here for darn near everything.
Tag it, put in an author's note at the beginning if you think it's really pushing the edge of the category, and see what happens.

Another option is to split it into parts and categorize the parts differently.

If you have a slow build up ending in more vanilla sex for part 1, drop it in Romance. As their relationship moves forward and they get into a particular kink, drop it into that kink's section.

Yeah, I agree with @cw5523729. I'd been debating doing this, but after reading the category guide, I realized that if you put a first part into romance when you know the later parts are going to end up kinky, people are going to get upset that they invested time in a story that led somewhere they didn't want, possibly even more so than in a one-off.

It's something I've thought about a lot, because I have a multipart T/I work in progress that I'm writing with the intent of having at least one sex scene in each part, but where the first couple of chapters are primarily masturbation, with the character not even actively thinking about their sibling (or, later on, trying and only mostly succeeding to AVOID thinking about them) during the act. Further, later chapters are going to involve some pretty fetishey stuff, which I've noticed is always difficult to mix with T/I, since it seems like most people who want T/I want family love, not kinky exploration and experimentation. My plan is to include very little plot development in the more fetishey chapters and note them as skippable, so that people who just want to follow the siblings' journey can still enjoy it, but I don't know if that's just shooting myself in the foot by trying too hard to play both sides of a mutually unresolvable conflict.

All of these things contribute to the reasons why I've really been hoping to find a writing buddy through this site who shares similar interests and style to me so that I have someone to bounce ideas off and share my excitement with as I create, but sadly, that seems very hard to find.

 

[cw5523729]

always difficult to mix with T/I, since it seems like most people who want T/I want family love, not kinky exploration and experimentation.

Is this true? I know nothing about T/I and that sounds 180 degrees apart from what I would have guessed.