The mystery of Story Games

[AwkwardlySet]

I've been meaning to start this topic for a while now.

Story games seem to exhibit some unusual patterns compared to regular Lit stories, but also compared to some other websites that have them.

Why is that?

The first thing we notice is that there aren't really that many of them on the site - between 70 and 80 at the moment. They seem to be very unpopular with authors, and I guess that makes sense. Not many authors have coding skills (even if story games require only basic knowledge), and I guess not many are willing to write all the different paths and story threads.

But most of all, maybe the authors just don't like writing them? Out of all the active (was it 169?) AH authors, only @AlinaX, @nice90sguy, and I have written one. Yet, it's the lack of popularity among readers what seems so unusual to me. They seem pretty popular on a few other sites that are more story-game oriented.

So why is that? Is it because Lit's readership is specific, maybe more mature in general? Is it maybe because the story games we have on Lit simply aren't very good? After all, out of 70+ story games, only like five have had the red H at any point. They are clearly not being rewarded by readers.
There's logic behind that theory, as you can easily see that most of the stories are written by newish authors with almost non-existent followings.
But then again, how is it that my story game is easily my most viewed, most favorited, most voted, and most commented work, even if I didn't really do anything different compared to my other work? If anything, it's the simplest story I've written...

This has been bugging me for a while now. I like understanding stuff, and this thing eludes me...

 

[NotWise]

I spent time back in the 1990's coding for a multi-user domain. That and similar sites were essentially story games, but with a management requirement. That was then. This is now. I have no desire to do it again.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

(Rereading this, it sounds a little too blunt. But it's past midnight, so I don't really have time to re-write it. Please take it for what it is: just one guy's opinion, not targeted at anyone in particular)

This is conjecture, but I would think there's a lot of inertia involved. Story games haven't been around for that long here. They're also pitifully primitive compared to many alternatives.

As you say, not many authors write them. Even disregarding coding skills, while writing branching storylines for a game like this is certainly a related and overlapping skillset to writing stories, they are not the same. It also likely isn't what people came here for. Even the new authors. They would be attracted here by what is doing well and abundant on the site: 'normal' stories. This could maybe change over time, but it's an uphill battle for this type of content to even be a noticeable blip against the gigantic monolith of Literotica's ever expanding catalogue.

Let's take then the people who do want to specifically make story games. Why in the world would they be here? Literotica is old and primitive. For normal stories, which are after all essentially the same as they would have been a thousand years ago, this doesn't really matter much. Perhaps it is even desirable, as you don't exactly need advanced features to simply read. If you want to make a game though, there are so many much more advanced options out there, even without having to learn much more significant coding skills. You can't put pictures, animations, or sounds in here. I don't know for certain having not tried it myself, but I doubt you can even keep track of hidden variables across a scenario or give your player even the most rudimentary of inventories.

Why do the readers not care much about story games? Same reasons really. That isn't what they're here for, and if they do want story games, there are so many out there with features unavailable here.

Why is your story game popular compared to your other works? My guess is big fish in a small pond. You're much more likely to be noticed with so little competition. Doesn't mean there's a huge readership for those games, just that the ones who are there have less options. Yours seems to be popular among those, possibly for good reason.

 

[iwatchus]

Not many authors have coding skills

I've been surprised by the relatively large percentage of people here who are significantly technically experienced. I think it's much higher than the general population.

I have no desire to do so for numerous reasons:

*) it's not where I want to invest my learning. I want to learn to be a better writer.

*) I want to control the outcome of my story.

*) I know the characters in my story well enough that I don't believe there are many decision points. They may ponder a decision carefully, but theire is often only one possible outcome

*) it's not what I read, so Im not comfortable writing it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But then again, how is it that my story game is easily my most viewed, most favorited, most voted, and most commented work, even if I didn't really do anything different compared to my other work? If anything, it's the simplest story I've written...

What kind of story stats are you talking about? "Most" doesn't mean much without context.

I suspect it would be a very different approach compared to writing linear stories - thinking into all possible story threads, choices and options. You'd have to be the king or queen of all plotter writers. A pantser like me would say, fuck that for a game of soldiers, and not even start. Just the notion of that first story divide would do my head in, let alone hundreds more.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but maybe it just comes down to why "Choose your own adventure" books aren't as popular as "normal" books?

It seems like a lot more work for very little value as a writer.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Why is your story game popular compared to your other works? My guess is big fish in a small pond. You're much more likely to be noticed with so little competition. Doesn't mean there's a huge readership for those games, just that the ones who are there have less options. Yours seems to be popular among those, possibly for good reason.

Maybe, but it feels like too simple an answer. I'm a guy who likes complicated answers...

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but maybe it just comes down to why "Choose your own adventure" books aren't as popular as "normal" books?

It seems like a lot more work for very little value as a writer.

But there are sites where story games are popular, just not here. Is it the "maturity" of readership here? Seems possible, IDK.

What kind of story stats are you talking about? "Most" doesn't mean much without context.

Significantly more when it comes to views, votes, and favorites. Funnily, it's also my lowest-rated work.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Maybe, but it feels like too simple an answer. I'm a guy who likes complicated answers...

Always err on the side of stupidity simplicity would be my suggestion. Suspicions of complexity are rarely justified, in my experience.

But there are sites where story games are popular, just not here. Is it the "maturity" of readership here? Seems possible, IDK.

Significantly more when it comes to views, votes, and favorites. Funnily, it's also my lowest-rated work.

What's the consensus of the comments though, if the punters are giving you low scores?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

What's the consensus of the comments though, if the punters are giving you low scores?

Comments are all positive. And when I say lowest rated, that's kinda relative. The score is 4.58.

 

[Bamagan]

I've been meaning to start this topic for a while now.

Story games seem to exhibit some unusual patterns compared to regular Lit stories, but also compared to some other websites that have them.

Why is that?

The first thing we notice is that there aren't really that many of them on the site - between 70 and 80 at the moment. They seem to be very unpopular with authors, and I guess that makes sense. Not many authors have coding skills (even if story games require only basic knowledge), and I guess not many are willing to write all the different paths and story threads.

But most of all, maybe the authors just don't like writing them? Out of all the active (was it 169?) AH authors, only @AlinaX, @nice90sguy, and I have written one. Yet, it's the lack of popularity among readers what seems so unusual to me. They seem pretty popular on a few other sites that are more story-game oriented.

So why is that? Is it because Lit's readership is specific, maybe more mature in general? Is it maybe because the story games we have on Lit simply aren't very good? After all, out of 70+ story games, only like five have had the red H at any point. They are clearly not being rewarded by readers.
There's logic behind that theory, as you can easily see that most of the stories are written by newish authors with almost non-existent followings.
But then again, how is it that my story game is easily my most viewed, most favorited, most voted, and most commented work, even if I didn't really do anything different compared to my other work? If anything, it's the simplest story I've written...

This has been bugging me for a while now. I like understanding stuff, and this thing eludes me...

I have a Story Game as well. Or at least, I put a story with branching paths in the category. It's not a game, per se.
I mostly agree with Z. I don't think their relative scarcity and reception here has much to do with maturity, unless you want to suggest that sites which specialize in that type of content, like CHOYA, have more mature 'technology' for dealing with it. Many of the stories at that site involve multiple contributors, and collaboration is really the key to making a 'game' large enough to be a major draw. Lit isn't really set up with collaborative works in mind, so I think that puts kind of a soft cap on just how 'big' the category can get.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I mostly agree with Z. I don't think their relative scarcity and reception here has much to do with maturity, unless you want to suggest that sites which specialize in that type of content, like CHOYA, have more mature 'technology' for dealing with it.

Not sure if I'm understanding you well here. When I mentioned maturity, I meant that maybe Lit's readership is more mature on average and thus less interested in games.

Edit: Sorry for missing your story game. I see it now.

 

[Bamagan]

Not sure if I'm understanding you well here. When I mentioned maturity, I meant that maybe Lit's readership is more mature on average and thus less interested in games.

I have no real data, but my impression of the readership from the stories that seem to get the most engagement here is not one of maturity. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, either; there's nothing wrong with having simple tastes.

I suppose the mean age of the authors that frequent the AH, however, might indicate that we, as a group, are too 'mature' to have much interest in making games.

 

[Voboy]

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but maybe it just comes down to why "Choose your own adventure" books aren't as popular as "normal" books?

It seems like a lot more work for very little value as a writer.

This.

I'm not really all that sure what story games are, but the closest analogue anyone's been able to provide me is "choose your own adventure." That's nowhere NEAR enough of an endorsement to grab my interest as a reader, and certainly not as a writer.

I'm well satisfied here with the lower-tech stories. I don't need bells and whistles of that sort. I would have to imagine there is a not-insignificant number of other folks here who think similarly.

Might be that simple. It's not something people are into, so they don't care to invest in it. As for the ratings, I doubt they can be compared to "traditional" stories for the same reason that apples aren't all that comparable to oranges.

 

[Britva415]

As a gamemaster for face to face tabletop RPGs (think D&D but much more heavily focused on roleplaying and on storytelling, and less on game mechanics and tactics), I follow a philosophy of never making a player roll the dice unless the stakes are meaningful and both success and failure can be made into interesting story consequences.

Playing through, you wind up telling one story, even though there may have been many spots where the adventure could have gone a different way - and still have been a good story.

This takes plenty of effort all by itself.

I can't imagine completing that story in addition to all of the other ones which could have resulted from all of those forks - especially while expecting most of them to never even be read by any given reader.

And doing it for low-stakes forks which don't really affect the story very much just seems like busywork - which, again, is going to mostly go unseen and unappreciated by the audience.

That's what I think writing a story game or a CHYOO must be like.

Mystery solved?

 

[Britva415]

there are sites where story games are popular, just not here. Is it the "maturity" of readership here?

Readers aren't the ones creating them, so, popularity among readers is completely moot.

This place attracts writers. CHYOO creators are exercising a different craft. I'm not saying it "isn't writing," but people who are motivated to write those are attracted to places which cater to them.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

I wanted to write one. I didn't for one reason: I didn't rant to be forced to download a software onto my laptop to do it. So, I gave up the idea.

 

[Katie_Mae]

Playing through, you wind up telling one story, even though there may have been many spots where the adventure could have gone a different way - and still have been a good story.

This takes plenty of effort all by itself.

I can't imagine completing that story in addition to all of the other ones which could have resulted from all of those forks - especially while expecting most of them to never even be read by any given reader.

This.
I started working on a story game. I realised quite early on that either it was going to be just one story with a bunch of 'side quests' or I was going to expend a lot of words completing a lot of other stories and I was much too lazy for that.

 

[PennyThompson]

I've tried a few of them, here and elsewhere, but mostly i didn't enjoy them. They tend to be a "collect them all" type of experience where you make a choice and get to see a sex scene with one character, then you go back and make a different choice to see a different sex scene with a different character. Take Path A to see the redhead with the big boobs, take Path B to see the blonde with the big booty, etc.

I love computer games, but once i start to figure out the confines of the gameplay loops, i usually lose interest. I don't think i've ever 100%'d a game, because once I know what the collectible sets are, or whatever, I don't feel the need to actually fill up the collection window.

The story games i've tried feel that way to me, it's just systematically collecting a set of fucks

if I were to try making a story game, my inclination would be to attempt something different, not a traditional choose-your-own-adventure "does he approach the redhead or the brunette" story. Create some sort of mystery or memory or uncertain narrative where each branch illuminates a different aspect of the story. Different perspectives on the same sequence of events, for example. Blind monks describing an elephant.

It's not that the story would branch into diverging paths, but that each branch would return back into the trunk and make it feel more full and complete. Let the reader/player unveil each section in whichever order they choose, and maybe their order choice could create a different sense of revealing from someone else's experience.

that's a story game that I would want to try playing. I don't know if I have the plotting chops to write it, though

 

[YmaOHyd]

I guess, speaking purely as a consumer, I've never considered them because when I want a story, I want a story. Take me to church, author, I'll worship at the shrine of your lies. When I want a game, there's a ton of options from super-modded Skyrim to Dungeon Boyfriend to Ladykiller in a Bind to Memoirs of a Battle-Brothel. The space in between, for a CYOO story, just doesn't really appeal.

 

[AlinaX]

I occasionally dip into the Story Games category for a read. It can be quite a frustrating experience for a variety of reasons.

Calling them ‘games’ is perhaps a problem. Yes you can write them as games, but that would be a huge undertaking for an author and there are limitations in Lit’s implementation that make it a headache. (I tried chyoa.com a few years ago and found the editor there extremely painful and the stories themselves abysmal.)

So, yes, they are choose-your-own stories. Choice is a problem. Choice can get in the way of a story, because is it the reader or the character making the choices? It’s up to the author to make the choices feel believable. External events that impact the story (I missed the bus). Random selections (Box No. 3, please). Coin-toss moments where the character could realistically choose any option.

If you don’t build the story up to and around the choices, you effectively stop being the author and give control and power to the reader. The story stops being immersive. The reader becomes increasingly frustrated rather than engaged.

 

[Jorunn]

A really good story game needs to be not just a single good story but rather a whole collection of interesting stories. Choice needs to be more than blonde or brunette.

Imagine you are planning a Christmas trip. A good story game is not choosing between a Christmas market in Berlin or one in Bremen. Rather the choice needs to be as grand as skiing in Switzerland, looking at Pyramids in Egypt, or seeing the Great Barrier reef. Thus you have to put enough effort into writing not one, but three stories. All the background, emotion, dialogue, etc.

 

[AlinaX]

Ah, but you see, there’s this girl in Berlin…

 

[PennyThompson]

Okay thinking a little more about this because I can't sleep, I think the challenge is using the medium in the ways in which it is unique from other mediums.

It reminds me of Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics, where he argues that comic books and graphic novels are different from other mediums because of their focus on static-but-sequential images in a way that is different from both text and film. Comics are best when they understand this and use it to its full potential. They're not as good when they try to be more like text or more like film.

So @AlinaX when you say that you need to write three good complete stories to make a good story game, I wonder if that's a misuse of the medium, and is really just better off being a collection of three stories?

And on the flip side, if you make a really elaborately coded game with a ton of variable strings, at a certain point it just becomes a video game.

So what is the thing that makes a story game or interactive text a distinct medium?

 

[AlinaX]

So @AlinaX when you say that you need to write three good complete stories to make a good story game, I wonder if that's a misuse of the medium, and is really just better off being a collection of three stories?

I… said that? I’ve said in the past that three scenes make a story, but I doubt I said that.

In MMAFHS, the first half of the story branches three ways to give three very different days for the MC, and the second half of the story has only a slight dependence on which of the three branches was chosen. The second half has a sequence of choices, and leads to a number of endings, most of which are too abrupt and probably unsatisfying… but as an author, writing multiple endings is utterly exhausting.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'd love to write one but I just can't settle on a plot idea since I can't figure out who is playing it. Should I write one for a woman to play or for a man to play? What would be the game's objective, to get laid? To shag your way up the corporate ladder? To rescue and shag a princess (or get rescued and shag the rescuer)? Something more generic like an Indiana Jones jungle hunt, but then how to work in the sex?