Wherefore art thou, Taboo-but-not-Incest?

[PennyThompson]

Earlier this year when Lit split the Transgender category off from Crossdressing (yay) they also tweaked some of the category titles, including changing Incest & Taboo to Taboo & Incest.

Ever since then, I've been pondering the possibilities that this brings. I have no interest in writing incest erotica... This is not a criticism of anyone that does, I fully understand that for some people it's a harmless and naughty fantasy. But for me personally, the real-world implications prevent me from finding it sexy in any way.

But other kinds of "taboo," stories... doctor/patient, priest/parishioner, boss/employee... Those are interesting to me. But they're also awfully vanilla and tame in comparison to siblings or parents. Plenty of these dynamics just get published in whatever category, couplings or group or whatever combination of bodies/organs/orifices are in on the action in a given story.

So my question is, could a non-incest taboo story actually find an appreciative audience in the T&I category?

Right now I'm working on a story with some established characters but a new dynamic, between new coworkers in committed relationships who start feeling some emotional heat.

Work Husband/Work Wife is a dynamic that I've personally experienced, in both positive and problematic ways, and I want to explore the erotic possibilities there... It could certainly go into a more vanilla category, and it will probably do fine there, but could it break into taboo?

A brief excerpt, still under construction...

“It’s a pretty common experience, Scout. People spend more waking hours with their coworkers in a week than with anyone else in their life. Statistically, the people in your close workplace are likely to have similar interests and values and expertise. You’re sharing goals and challenges, you’re venting frustrations and celebrating successes with each other... It’s natural for that kind of situation to turn into a strong emotional connection.”

I stare open-mouthed at my quiet, nerdy boyfriend for a moment. “What the fuck, Jeremy?”

He blushes and shrugs. “What? I read Ask A Manager. If you want to think of Victoria as your Work Wife, I’m cool with it. If it bothers you, think about her more like a… I don’t know, Work Sister. Work Mom.”

My mind goes to highly inappropriate places before I can stop it. “I don’t think that’s helping,” I mutter.

 

[DeeDeeX2]

I think there is definitely a market for taboo without incest stories. A well written and erotically engaging story is a good story no matter which of the limited choice of labels are applied.

 

[Statius]

Earlier this year when Lit split the Transgender category off from Crossdressing (yay) they also tweaked some of the category titles, including changing Incest & Taboo to Taboo & Incest.

Ever since then, I've been pondering the possibilities that this brings. I have no interest in writing incest erotica... This is not a criticism of anyone that does, I fully understand that for some people it's a harmless and naughty fantasy. But for me personally, the real-world implications prevent me from finding it sexy in any way.

But other kinds of "taboo," stories... doctor/patient, priest/parishioner, boss/employee... Those are interesting to me. But they're also awfully vanilla and tame in comparison to siblings or parents. Plenty of these dynamics just get published in whatever category, couplings or group or whatever combination of organs and orifices are in on the action in a given story.

So my question is, could a non-incest taboo story actually find an appreciative audience in the T&I category?

Right now I'm working on a story with some established characters but a new dynamic, between new coworkers in committed relationships who start feeling some emotional heat.

Work Husband/Work Wife is a dynamic that I've personally experienced, in both positive and problematic ways, and I want to explore the erotic possibilities there... It could certainly go into a more vanilla category, and it will probably do fine there, but could it break into taboo?

A brief excerpt, still under construction...

1. Ad always, well written. Like the start where the BF is 'opening' the door

2. I agree with the overall question. It does seem that incest is the only taboo anymore, at least on Lit. Power dynamics matter, but then isn't a lot of that in LW now? Where the wife is at work blah blah blah.
The preacher dynamic as well, same thing. College professor younger student? Maybe. Something to think about, definitely, the over all point that is.

 

[crookedletter]

I wonder if "taboo," divorced from incest, is almost too broad a category. Some of what makes a lot of the other categories of interest to its readers are their taboo elements: Exhibitionism/Voyeur, Loving Wives, Fetish, Group Sex -- I think at least of part of why these appeal are because they're in some way breaking the rules. You get to write and read about fantasies that would maybe push you outside of the comfortable in real life, but in fiction you do so without the uncomfortable consequences.

I don't feel strongly about the Taboo/Incest category being solely for incest. I have ventured into that category, though I never really thought I would for the same reasons you mention. But I think many things otherwise considered taboo could easily fit in another category -- ones where taboo isn't necessarily in the name but is still part of the kink.

 

[AwkwardMD]

@BelleCanzuto wrote an excellent piece about a priest that went into that category years ago. I loved it.

 

[Statius]

Or maybe it's just a matter of emphasis? What is the emphasis of the story? The power dynamics? Age gap? How do these things affect the MC? Perhaps the MC has to have a moral dilemma to make it taboo. Do the employee/ employer both find themselves in a moral quandary?

 

[THBGato]

@PennyThompson not really relevant, but I am so nervous about what you are potentially going to do with Scout, Vic, Rosa and Jeremy. I am waaaaay too invested in those characters.

 

[PennyThompson]

@PennyThompson not really relevant, but I am so nervous about what you are potentially going to do with Scout, Vic, Rosa and Jeremy. I am waaaaay too invested in those characters.

Oh no now I'M nervous

I think I have a plan! I think it's going to be okay!

 

[EmilyMiller]

So my question is, could a non-incest taboo story actually find an appreciative audience in the T&I category?

I wrote a taboo story about a family. The mother and son were both killed in the same car crash leaving the father in law and daughter in law bereaved. They aren’t blood relatives so no incest, and there wasn’t an overt power dynamic either. Just two damaged people. I tried to come up with a realistic scenario in which they get together (emotionally and practically). To judge by the comments, I succeeded.

 

[crookedletter]

Or maybe it's just a matter of emphasis? What is the emphasis of the story? The power dynamics? Age gap? How do these things affect the MC? Perhaps the MC has to have a moral dilemma to make it taboo. Do the employee/ employer both find themselves in a moral quandary?

This rings true for me.

I think incest is really just a handy shortcut to taboo. If two characters are step siblings or whatever, you don't have to spend a lot of time developing that -- and why -- they should not be together.

A work husband/wife, for example, does not on its face come with that same shorthand. I think for it to accomplish that level of taboo some work is needed to convince the reader that this cannot, will not happen. And then, you know... it happens.

 

[PennyThompson]

I think incest is really just a handy shortcut to taboo. If two characters are step siblings or whatever, you don't have to spend a lot of time developing that -- and why -- they should not be together.

A work husband/wife, for example, does not on its face come with that same shorthand. I think for it to accomplish that level of taboo some work is needed to convince the reader that this cannot, will not happen. And then, you know... it happens.

Ooh that's a super helpful way to think about "taboo or not taboo"

 

[Statius]

This rings true for me.

I think incest is really just a handy shortcut to taboo. If two characters are step siblings or whatever, you don't have to spend a lot of time developing that -- and why -- they should not be together.

A work husband/wife, for example, does not on its face come with that same shorthand. I think for it to accomplish that level of taboo some work is needed to convince the reader that this cannot, will not happen. And then, you know... it happens.

Glad I could help

 

[NaughteeDragon]

But other kinds of "taboo," stories... doctor/patient, priest/parishioner, boss/employee... Those are interesting to me. But they're also awfully vanilla and tame in comparison to siblings or parents. Plenty of these dynamics just get published in whatever category, couplings or group or whatever combination of bodies/organs/orifices are in on the action in a given story.

So my question is, could a non-incest taboo story actually find an appreciative audience in the T&I category?

I would love to stumble into something like that. Especially if the focus was on the taboo nature the relationship. I think if you did a leading author’s note indicating it was taboo and not incest that it would find its audience. Particularly because it’s you.

 

[nice90sguy]

I didn't know about that subtle switching of words in the I/T category.

So now my story "Shmuel and the Ham Sandwich" can be posted.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Where we as writers would all agree, Penny's idea would definitely be taboo, I would be doubtful that the average Lit T/I reader would be appreciative. You'd get a whole flurry of 'wrong category' comments.

T/I readers on the average, expect blood relations getting it on. Even step family isn't appreciated, even though it's a much more likely real-life scenario.

I, for one, will read it regardless.

 

[crookedletter]

Even step family isn't appreciated

I wondered about this. My sole venture into T/I was step siblings -- and not terribly close step siblings at that -- but I didn't get any "wrong category" or "not real T/I" blowback. Some comments were legit criticisms of the story, but none with that angle. And if you navigate to any of the "step"-oriented tags in the category you see some pretty well-received stories.

It might be a matter of making the nature of the taboo clear from the outset. In the story's description, in the tags, maybe even an author's note at the top -- though I didn't bother with that last.

 

[SimonDoom]

My interpretation is that people are overthinking the term "taboo." "Taboo" in the context of this category is not intended to encompass all taboos. It has nothing to do with the concept of taboo, generally. If it did, it would overlap with and conflict with other categories, many of which encompass elements we might call "taboo."

I think "taboo" is meant to encompass quasi-incest and pseudo-incest. Sex between step-relatives or in laws, for example. Adopted brothers and sisters having sex. Some people don't regard this as real "incest," so it makes sense for the site to add the word "taboo" to give the category some wiggle room.

My theory is backed up by the category description "Keeping it in the Family." It is backed up by a perusal of the stories actually written to this category.

To answer Penny's question, No, I don't think most readers of this category would appreciate the inclusion of stories about completely different kinds of relationships, like doctors and patients, that have an element of taboo. That's not what they are looking for.

 

[PennyThompson]

I think "taboo" is meant to encompass quasi-incest and pseudo-incest. Sex between step-relatives or in laws, for example. Adopted brothers and sisters having sex. Some people don't regard this as real "incest," so it makes sense for the site to add the word "taboo" to give the category some wiggle room.

My theory is backed up by the category description "Keeping it in the Family." It is backed up by a perusal of the stories actually written to this category.

You make a good point about the category description...

I guess a counterpoint might be that some other categories have description sentences that no longer align with the current "category culture," but to take that kind of gamble probably requires more umm... content area expertise than I have in this case

 

[SimonDoom]

You make a good point about the category description...

I guess a counterpoint might be that some other categories have description sentences that no longer align with the current "category culture," but to take that kind of gamble probably requires more umm... content area expertise than I have in this case

You're right about other categories, but with respect to T&I, I think the culture very much conforms to the description. I've been reading stories in this category for many years, and I see no drift, unlike what's happened in Loving Wives.

 

[PennyThompson]

with respect to T&I, I think the culture very much conforms to the description. I've been reading stories in this category for many years, and I see no drift, unlike what's happened in Loving Wives.

Ok but hear me out, what if two coworkers are stuck in the cramped back seat of a company car while their hearing impaired boss drives them to a conference...

 

[SimonDoom]

Ok but hear me out, what if two coworkers are stuck in the cramped back seat of a company car while their hearing impaired boss drives them to a conference...

You better quit, or you're going to enter SimonDoom-Bamagan levels of ridiculousness.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

This is easy. Just write a story about someone talking about politics on the AH forum. Would go straight into the taboo category.

But seriously, I can't really think of a non-incest taboo that wouldn't fit easily into another category. Unless you write something historical and adopt the taboos of those times? Might be funny to submit a story to T/I where the most scandalous act is a flash of ankle...that's practically fetish stuff now.

 

[SimonDoom]

But seriously, I can't really think of a non-incest taboo that wouldn't fit easily into another category. Unless you write something historical and adopt the taboos of those times? Might be funny to submit a story to T/I where the most scandalous act is a flash of ankle...that's practically fetish stuff now.

My feeling, too. Like a kinky story about a doctor-patient could go in Erotic Couplings, or Fetish, or something else if another element were introduced. It would fit much better there than in T&I.

 

[Erozetta]

I wondered about this. My sole venture into T/I was step siblings -- and not terribly close step siblings at that -- but I didn't get any "wrong category" or "not real T/I" blowback. Some comments were legit criticisms of the story, but none with that angle. And if you navigate to any of the "step"-oriented tags in the category you see some pretty well-received stories.

It might be a matter of making the nature of the taboo clear from the outset. In the story's description, in the tags, maybe even an author's note at the top -- though I didn't bother with that last.

I ventured down the step-sibling path and they took it much better than I expected. Story was sitting around a 4.75 or so before I deleted my account.

I got one wrong category comment and it was quickly followed up with a few comments pointing out the taboo side of the category (even though I agreed with the person who complained. I'd originally asked for it to go in fetish due to a budding lactation fetish at play.)

 

[SimonDoom]

I ventured down the step-sibling path and they took it much better than I expected. Story was sitting around a 4.75 or so before I deleted my account.

I got one wrong category comment and it was quickly followed up with a few comments pointing out the taboo side of the category (even though I agreed with the person who complained. I'd originally asked for it to go in fetish due to a budding lactation fetish at play.)

Some readers are extremely picky. You can't do anything about them, and it makes no sense to cater one's story to them, because the chances are good that if you do you'll just piss off some other person with different picky tastes.

Most incest readers, I think, aren't too picky as long as the relationship is "close enough" and the incestuous angle is played up as a key part of the story. That's what they're looking for. If you write a story about first cousins and everything's hunky dory, it will disappoint, but if you write a story about first cousins and play up the taboo and tortured conscience angle it might do quite well.

It's the difference between:

Cousin 1: Hey cousin, let's have sex.
Cousin 2: Sounds great!

versus:

Cousin 1: I want to touch you.
Cousin 2: We really shouldn't do that. But I guess if you put your hand on my leg and don't move it it's OK.