Prophecies and omens

[StillStunned]

{I rewrote the bit that disappeared. Sorry for the confusion.]

Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells.

Recently I've been listening to the audiobooks of The Lord of the Rings, and it struck me just how accommodating this prophecy is. None of that cryptic "Cross the border and a great empire will be destroyed" - but we're not saying which one. Or even "I fear the Greeks, even when they bear gifts", when you could just as easily say, "Honestly people, who trusts this wooden horse that's conveniently large enough for a score of armed soldiers and toilet facilities?"

No, Tolkien hands out a quest, and conveniently provides the solution. The fate of Middle-Earth is at stake, after all. No point inviting confusion.

Fantasy (and sci-fi sometimes too) is full of prophecies and omens. And generally they're just plot drivers to get the hero/ine off their arse. They rarely seem to be actually useful to the protagonists. Usually they look back and go, "Oh right, we did that. Yay us."

Ask, sooner, mute stone to speak and voiceless rock to speak.
Quenched will be Dyrnwyn's flame;
Vanished, its power.
Night turn to noon
And rivers burn with frozen fire
Ere Dyrnwyn be regained.
This is from The Chronicles of Prydain. All these things come true, but the protagonists only realise this after the fact. None of the signs guide them in their quest.

In Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams, there's a prophecy that sets the action in motion. But (spoiler) in the end it turns out that the good guys shouldn't be following the prophecy. There's an omen saying "Beware the false messenger!" But finding out after three massive volumes what it all meant leaves the reader (this one, at least) feeling a bit deflated.

This is a rambling introduction to my topic: prophecies, omens and other puzzles in speculative fiction. How do other SF&F writers (other writes may chime in too, obviously) deal with it? Any thoughts on how they're used in mainstream fiction, either good or bad examples? Any examples from your own writing that you're proud of, particularly clever ones or poetic ones? Did you write the prophecy and then shape the story around it, or did you write the story and then go back and tailor the prophecy to what would happen? Did you wonder about the readers' reaction?

Now your statues are standing and pouring sweat. They shiver with dread. The black blood drips from the highest rooftops. They have seen the necessity of evil. Get out, get out of my sanctum and drown your spirits in woe.

 

[THBGato]

It's not that different to the prologue at the start of Romeo & Juliet:

"From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star cross'd lovers take their life"

In the end, prophecy is just very explicit foreshadowing. In Sci fi, fantasy and romance, I don't think the majority of readers want surprises. They want the ending they expect: that's why they read those genres. Prophecy/foreshadowing helps reassure readers that the outcome of the text is going to be what they expect.

Sure, there are out-liers, but I think that's generally true.

 

[Erozetta]

{I rewrote the bit that disappeared. Sorry for the confusion.]

Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells.

Recently I've been listening to the audiobooks of The Lord of the Rings, and it struck me just how accommodating this prophecy is. None of that cryptic "Cross the border and a great empire will be destroyed" - but we're not saying which one. Or even "I fear the Greeks, even when they bear gifts", when you could just as easily say, "Honestly people, who trusts this wooden horse that's conveniently large enough for a score of armed soldiers and toilet facilities?"

No, Tolkien hands out a quest, and conveniently provides the solution. The fate of Middle-Earth is at stake, after all. No point inviting confusion.

Fantasy (and sci-fi sometimes too) is full of prophecies and omens. And generally they're just plot drivers to get the hero/ine off their arse. They rarely seem to be actually useful to the protagonists. Usually they look back and go, "Oh right, we did that. Yay us."

Ask, sooner, mute stone to speak and voiceless rock to speak.
Quenched will be Dyrnwyn's flame;
Vanished, its power.
Night turn to noon
And rivers burn with frozen fire
Ere Dyrnwyn be regained.
This is from The Chronicles of Prydain. All these things come true, but the protagonists only realise this after the fact. None of the signs guide them in their quest.

In Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams, there's a prophecy that sets the action in motion. But (spoiler) in the end it turns out that the good guys shouldn't be following the prophecy. There's an omen saying "Beware the false messenger!" But finding out after three massive volumes what it all meant leaves the reader (this one, at least) feeling a bit deflated.

This is a rambling introduction to my topic: prophecies, omens and other puzzles in speculative fiction. How do other SF&F writers (other writes may chime in too, obviously) deal with it? Any thoughts on how they're used in mainstream fiction, either good or bad examples? Any examples from your own writing that you're proud of, particularly clever ones or poetic ones? Did you write the prophecy and then shape the story around it, or did you write the story and then go back and tailor the prophecy to what would happen? Did you wonder about the readers' reaction?

Now your statues are standing and pouring sweat. They shiver with dread. The black blood drips from the highest rooftops. They have seen the necessity of evil. Get out, get out of my sanctum and drown your spirits in woe.

I wrote the prophecy as I wrote the story, and kept it vague enough to fit the main characters as well as their daughter. (The prophecy is ultimately about their daughter.)

 

[yowser]

Not a prophecy, but in the same categorical location, a curse:

To those persons with Literotica authorly ambitions, writers past, present and potential, scurrilous scribblers of sex, with vast unreasonable expectations of writerly recognition and wanton wishes for immortal fame, yet whose grandiose visions exceed their meager talents by immense margins, who find new and imaginative ways to violate time-honored literary conventions of the language, who recklessly run rampant through natural and normal rules of grammar, employ both clichés with impunity and plots rife with logical inconsistencies, develop character motivations of the flimsiest fabric, sodden prose of the most execrable flavour, stories of repulsive depravity - may you be cursed.

Luckily, and nearly unprecedented in the long history of curses, in this case an antidote is offered:

May this curse be countered and lifted with the production of a single substance-worthy story.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I've only done one. It's for my City of Scum story(still in the works). For that, I scoped out the story and wrote the prophecy to fit. being a panster, the story may morph and change, but it will keep the prophecy in mind as it does.

Like the one in harry Potter, i think prophecies need to be cryptic adding confusion and letting the characters infer what they want. Only in retrospection can the true meaning be known.

Under the light of a moonless sky,
A voice unheard will weave the why.
The crown shall gleam, yet veins run dry,
Undone by whispers, a bastard’s cry.

The branch unclaimed - in silence grown,
Shall mark the fault in every stone.
Not by sword, nor open flame;
But truth’s slow drip shall hollow name.

Ailuros knows but does not strike.
She turns the key. She rides the night.
And when the masks at last are shed,
The crown shall kneel to that it bred.​

 

[StillStunned]

From a long-abandoned WIP:

“As your essence mingles with my three presences, it reveals hints. Only you know what they are, and only you can interpret them. They might remain a mystery, though, if your life takes a different path.”

“Hints?” He furrowed his brow, thinking. “Things that will come to pass?”

“No.” She took another sip and handed him the bottle. “Hints. Your first vision revealed elements from your past that could affect you now. The second vision showed things from the present. The last vision held your possible future. But it’s more abstract than that.”

Izan drank from the bottle. “Of course.”

“What you saw could be a clue, or a warning. Things from the past, the present and the future that could either benefit you or harm you.”

He frowned. “How do I know which?”

She gave a laugh. “Ha! Now that would be a useful trick! No, usually all you can do is be alert. Prepared to seize an opportunity or defend yourself.”

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

I wrote a fantasy novel that uses bits of "scripture" at the beginning of each chapter. It sets the tone for what the chapter is about and also, when the bits are put together, it gives the reader an idea of what came before the story started.

I think Dune may have used a similar technique from the Bene Gesserit bible. Been a while since I read it. Anyway, it's kind of fun making up your own religion and it can be a good way to incorporate those prophesies.

Here's a sample:

During the end of days, when the waters ran dry and the only clouds on the horizon were thick and choking, the wise queen gathered her people under the shelter of the Great Tree. There they remained, hands joined, encircling the broad trunk and looking ever skyward. And until the end, singing songs of hope to the young queens aloft, high above the gathering storm.

—Selected passages from the Book of the Origin, by Bella Aurelius Nobilis. Modern Language Translation.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's not that different to the prologue at the start of Romeo & Juliet:

"From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star cross'd lovers take their life"

In the end, prophecy is just very explicit foreshadowing.

In that particular example yes. It's a non-diegetic prophecy (meaning that it's heard only by the audience, not the characters).

But fantasy often uses diegetic prophecy - prophecy that some of the characters are explicitly aware of - and that's not merely foreshadowing, because it often influences them to do things they might not otherwise have done. For another Shakespearean example, Macbeth might not have killed Duncan and almost certainly wouldn't have killed Banquo without the witches' prophecy.

That's not merely foreshadowing; that's a plot device. As a plot device, it has its place but I find that in modern fantasy it often ends up being a lazy short-cut for authors who can't otherwise answer the question "why is this dude so special that he deserves to be the main character of everything?"

 

[Britva415]

Prophecy/foreshadowing helps reassure readers that the outcome of the text is going to be what they expect.

Maybe that can be said of foreshadowing. Prophecy on the other hand has such a history of being consistently ambiguous and misunderstood that I wouldn't even call it a trope. That simply is the canon of prophecy, at least in Western literature since classical times.

The outliers are the ones where the prophecy was unambiguous, straightforward, complete and fulfilled without surprises, twists, ironies and gotchas.

 

[Bramblethorn]

{I rewrote the bit that disappeared. Sorry for the confusion.]

Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells.

Recently I've been listening to the audiobooks of The Lord of the Rings, and it struck me just how accommodating this prophecy is. None of that cryptic "Cross the border and a great empire will be destroyed" - but we're not saying which one. Or even "I fear the Greeks, even when they bear gifts", when you could just as easily say, "Honestly people, who trusts this wooden horse that's conveniently large enough for a score of armed soldiers and toilet facilities?"

No, Tolkien hands out a quest, and conveniently provides the solution. The fate of Middle-Earth is at stake, after all. No point inviting confusion.

Although Tolkien wasn't above a bit of misunderstood prophecy...

 

[Bramblethorn]

{I rewrote the bit that disappeared. Sorry for the confusion.]

Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells.

Recently I've been listening to the audiobooks of The Lord of the Rings, and it struck me just how accommodating this prophecy is. None of that cryptic "Cross the border and a great empire will be destroyed" - but we're not saying which one. Or even "I fear the Greeks, even when they bear gifts", when you could just as easily say, "Honestly people, who trusts this wooden horse that's conveniently large enough for a score of armed soldiers and toilet facilities?"

But in that case there were some very specific warnings. Don't just read the last line:

Some were amazed at virgin Minerva’s fatal gift,
and marvel at the horse’s size: and at first Thymoetes,
whether through treachery, or because Troy’s fate was certain,
urged that it be dragged inside the walls and placed on the citadel.
But Capys, and those of wiser judgement, commanded us
to either hurl this deceit of the Greeks, this suspect gift,
into the sea, or set fire to it from beneath,
or pierce its hollow belly, and probe for hiding places.
The crowd, uncertain, was split by opposing opinions.
Then Laocoön rushes down eagerly from the heights
of the citadel, to confront them all, a large crowd with him,
and shouts from far off: ‘O unhappy citizens, what madness?
Do you think the enemy’s sailed away? Or do you think
any Greek gift’s free of treachery? Is that Ulysses’s reputation?
Either there are Greeks in hiding, concealed by the wood,
or it’s been built as a machine to use against our walls,
or spy on our homes, or fall on the city from above,
or it hides some other trick: Trojans, don’t trust this horse.
Whatever it is, I’m afraid of Greeks even those bearing gifts.’

https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/VirgilAeneidII.php#anchor_Toc536009309

I did enjoy this modern take:

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I personally don't like the way prophecies or omens are done. To me they feel like a magic trick that's done over and over and over again, with no twist or change on its presentation whatsoever. They're played too straight. I'm thinking things like Skyrim where it's already told from the trailer that the player must face Alduin. Sure, learning the lore was nice in the game, but it's just too on the nose already. If I'm told that the hero will succeed straight up, what is even the point of being told that right away? I already know the hero is likely to win by the end of the story; I don't need some prophecy to reassure me of it. What I want is the hero to stumble upon rocks, to face odds, to even be near death, or even die on their mission.

It doesn't mean I'm against prophecies or omens though. They can be used to highlight a theme on a story. I remember this from Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. The old man? He told the Prince that he must die because he reverted the timeline back at the end of the first videogame, and no one can change their fate. When the Prince defeated Kaileena for the first time he realized he was the only one to blame for his own fate: killing Kaileena created the sands of time, which the release of them and the destruction such release caused was the whole plot of the previous game. Cue the true ending of the game when he managed to revert back in time, save Kaileena and defeat the Dahaka... only to fuck with a woman literally made of sand* on their journey back to Babylon to see her kidnapped, and later murdered by the same bad guy from the previous game because... not killing Kaileena effectively prevented the events of the first game ever happening. Once again, that same line the old man said played at the end of Warrior Within's true ending: no one can change their fate... except that he obviously did by the end of The Two Thrones because he's the hero, yet you can still feel the conflict throughout Warrior Within, especially during the chases, and how there was an omen halfway through the game, right before the first fight against Kaileena, where the Prince saw a sand spectre dying at the hands of the Dahaka and didn't know what was that about, until he became that very same sand spectre and realized that, unless he is faster, he is going to die as he is reverting time to avoid the creation of the sands of time.

My bad. Spoilers for a series of videogames that is 20 years old.

Now, I've used prophecies in my D&D campaign. The first time was... pretty much a copout I gave myself to explain an NPC death because his role was over. Again, this was my first time DMing. Nevertheless, I later fixed it by revealing something to the players that highlighted my inspiration on how things like fate and chance work in my universe, which if you're curious, look up the Norns/Nornir, and the concepts of Wyrd and Orlog from Norse mythology. I pretty much dropped breadcrumbs that say that the characters; any character that the player is playing with (because there was one character death mid-through) has been fated to fight a God due to their heritage, and the roles their ancestors played on fighting this same God thousands of years before, and through theology from the land I explained that this armageddon cycle was something that the world must endure every few thousand years to change and become stronger. Now, what I gave them is the chance to stop the cycle, and they succeeded with it, but they created a vacuum within the powers of the universe that there's no way to fix it, unless a God steps in that place. Plus, I also explained that the God they destroyed was actually protecting the land they were at from a much more destructive God who is seeking to conquer the entire universe, so they pretty much screwed up destiny, and with it screwed up the status quo of the world, which in my view, it's far much better than something going right all the time.

I do want to see prophecies not being fulfilled, and heavy consequences for it more often. Not the prophecies of underdog saving the world, but actual prophecies of mythical proportions, things like... well, what I mentioned: bloodlines being doomed to be part of fate one way or another, and if they don't, or play their role too well... things will end up dire.

Using these examples because I don't really write high fantasy unless it's for D&D, and Discworld pretty much put my standards for consuming fantasy way too high, so it feels like anything fantasy that I read is downhill from there... kinda like how I feel with urban fantasy after World of Darkness.

*To this day I'm still wondering how that must have felt. I don't blame him though; I'd also have sex with high fantasy sand Monica Bellucci too if I had the chance.

 

[SmilingLez]

I don't think the majority of readers want surprises. They want the ending they expect: that's why they read those genres.

Using your logic, every story on literotica would be a words only porno hallmark "movie" in the reader's head. How boring and unimaginative.

 

[Bamagan]

Like the ferrous feline above, I find that prophecies are more interesting in things like role-playing games than in fiction. Partly because the players are going to do everything in their power to derail a plot anyway (and not always intentionally), so it becomes a game of wits to see if you can reinterpret the lore to explain whatever shenanigans ensued. But as a trope to drive the action in certain genres, it often feels like it's included because it's expected, rather than being a necessary part of the story.

 

[THBGato]

Using your logic, every story on literotica would be a words only porno hallmark "movie" in the reader's head. How boring and unimaginative.

Well, no: I only mentioned two lit categories. Besides it's not the destination, it's the journey that interests us. We know the WHAT (that good will triumph over evil, that the couple we are shipping will get together; that R&J kill themselves); it's the HOW and WHY we read for.

Cast a look at the Lesbian Sex top twenty. For around half those entries the short summary effectively gives away the ending, foreshadowing events explicitly. Yet they are popular as, among other reasons, they deliver on the WHY and HOW in interesting ways.

In that particular example yes. It's a non-diegetic prophecy (meaning that it's heard only by the audience, not the characters).

True. I was thinking in terms of the audience/readers' experience, rather than as a plot device. I'm a reader first...

 

[HordHolm]

There are three things that turn me off Fantasy a lot of the time. The first is a biggie, but it's magic. Too often it's a cheat code, allowing the author to do things that would otherwise need the characters to work hard. I like the way Pratchett addressed magic - by creating a magical world where people generally didn't use magic.

The second thing is dragons. It's like introducing an ICBM into proceedings. Dragons done right are too powerful (though again, I like the way Pratchett dealt with his dragon. Very inventive).

And lastly, prophecy. Because it's never done as well as 'real' prophecy from the Ancient world. So, when Croesus is told that if he went to war with the Persians a great kingdom would fall, only the end result revealed that it was his own kingdom that was at risk. The prophecy 'tricked' him (of course, it was his own hubris, really). Or when Athens was at war with Persia, and Xerxes' army had already defeated the 300 Spartans (and 8,000 other Greeks) at Thermoplylae, the Athenians asked the Oracle at Delphi what to do. It advised, "put your faith in wooden walls." Cue a massive disagreement amongst the Athenians, with some erecting a wooden wall around the summit of the Acropolis and barricading themselves in (they died when the Persians occupied Athens), but Themistocles convincing the other Athenians to build a fleet instead. Their fleet won the battle of Salamis and turned the tide of the war. These prophecies were ambiguous. I don't think that that kind of ambiguity is welcomed these days.

 

[SmilingLez]

Well, no: I only mentioned two lit categories. Besides it's not the destination, it's the journey that interests us. We know the WHAT (that good will triumph over evil, that the couple we are shipping will get together; that R&J kill themselves); it's the HOW and WHY we read for.

Cast a look at the Lesbian Sex top twenty. For around half those entries the short summary effectively gives away the ending, foreshadowing events explicitly. Yet they are popular as, among other reasons, they deliver on the WHY and HOW in interesting ways.

True. I was thinking in terms of the audience/readers' experience, rather than as a plot device. I'm a reader first...

You're right, the short summary is like a TV guide of the 1980s (parents' generation), enticing the reader to read that story. Basically a sales pitch.

 

[StillStunned]

I was inspired to write a snippet about a prophecy.

 

[onehitwanda]

The first is a biggie, but it's magic. Too often it's a cheat code, allowing the author to do things that would otherwise need the characters to work hard.

Amusingly enough, the Tales from Earthsea have all of your offenders in them. Magic is inherent in the balance of Creation that was set in place when Segoy named the islands and raised them, Dragons feature prominently, and prophecy dogs Sparrowhawk's steps pretty much all the way.

That said, Earthsea remains one of the most thoughtful and fair depictions of magic in any fantasy series.

 

[StillStunned]

Amusingly enough, the Tales from Earthsea have all of your offenders in them. Magic is inherent in the balance of Creation that was set in place when Segoy named the islands and raised them, Dragons feature prominently, and prophecy dogs Sparrowhawk's steps pretty much all the way.

That said, Earthsea remains one of the most thoughtful and fair depictions of magic in any fantasy series.

That's because Ursula Le Guin is an amazing writer, and few authors nowadays can build a world, or a believable character, or a mood, in just a few words the way she does. She implies rather than stating out loud, and trusts the reader to fill in the rest of the picture.

She also does an excellent job of explaining why, in a world where magic is a tool, it hasn't shaped society like technology has transformed our world.

 

[onehitwanda]

That's because Ursula Le Guin is an amazing writer, and few authors nowadays can build a world, or a believable character, or a mood, in just a few words the way she does. She implies rather than stating out loud, and trusts the reader to fill in the rest of the picture.

She also does an excellent job of explaining why, in a world where magic is a tool, it hasn't shaped society like technology has transformed our world.

She is a massive influence on my own writing. I love her way of just casually alluding to earth-shattering things, like a certain conversation that Tehanu has with Kalessin

 

[iwatchus]

She is a massive influence on my own writing. I love her way of just casually alluding to earth-shattering things, like a certain conversation that Tehanu has with Kalessin

That is pretty obvious if you read your writing. I was not at all surprised when you were rhapsodizing about her above.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

And lastly, prophecy. Because it's never done as well as 'real' prophecy from the Ancient world. So, when Croesus is told that if he went to war with the Persians a great kingdom would fall, only the end result revealed that it was his own kingdom that was at risk. The prophecy 'tricked' him (of course, it was his own hubris, really). Or when Athens was at war with Persia, and Xerxes' army had already defeated the 300 Spartans (and 8,000 other Greeks) at Thermoplylae, the Athenians asked the Oracle at Delphi what to do. It advised, "put your faith in wooden walls." Cue a massive disagreement amongst the Athenians, with some erecting a wooden wall around the summit of the Acropolis and barricading themselves in (they died when the Persians occupied Athens), but Themistocles convincing the other Athenians to build a fleet instead. Their fleet won the battle of Salamis and turned the tide of the war. These prophecies were ambiguous. I don't think that that kind of ambiguity is welcomed these days.

Which reminds me...

Are there still people who see one of Nostradamus' prophecies as a prediction for 9/11? I remember that was a whole thing during the 00s, and how the Mayan calendar ending on the 21st of December of 2012 was an omen for the end of the world.

I wonder if there's someone who's teaching their kids that 2012 was a documentary.