The Economy

[ll74]

YTD stock market - 4%

Last year - 9% ytd

Just breaking even is the new soaring stock market.

Neat

 

[ChinoMoreno]

Whatever they call it, markets liked it.

Hey dude it's not a deal until it's signed. This is like making out with a chick and claiming you got laid.



And bro do you need me to DM you instructions on how to embed pictures?

 

[MajorRewrite]

Whatever they call it, markets liked it.

The markets are glad that the worst of TrumpTariffs have been averted again.

The markets would have been much more happy if Trump never had a tariff fetish at all, but unfortunately that’s not the world we live in.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

The markets are glad that the worst of TrumpTariffs have been averted again.

The markets would have been much more happy if Trump never had a tariff fetish at all, but unfortunately that’s not the world we live in.

The markets are showing comfort with the 15% range which is about 5X what the pre-“liberation day” average tariff rates were.

 

[MajorRewrite]

The markets are showing comfort with the 15% range which is about 5X what the pre-“liberation day” average tariff rates were.

Tariff taxes on American businesses and consumers are up 5x and you think that’s a good thing? But you were adamant about tax cuts in the Tax & Spend Bill. MAGA sheep are weird.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Tariff taxes on American businesses and consumers are up 5x and you think that’s a good thing? But you were adamant about tax cuts in the Tax & Spend Bill. MAGA sheep are weird.

Do you yap Apples vs Oranges all the time?

 

[MajorRewrite]

Do you yap Apples vs Oranges all the time?

I’m not surprised that you’re also a supporter of TrumpTariffs — the largest tax increase on American businesses and consumers since the 1960s.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Tariff taxes on American businesses and consumers are up 5x and you think that’s a good thing? But you were adamant about tax cuts in the Tax & Spend Bill. MAGA sheep are weird.

The markets are reacting positively to the Japan agreement and the 15% range its anticipating in a EU agreement. I do find it interesting that many of the same people who want to raise corporate income tax rates and who strenuously opposed the BBB which prevented a major tax hike on individual income are so concerned about raising taxes on imported goods.

 

[MajorRewrite]

I do find it interesting that many of the same people who want to raise corporate income tax rates and who strenuously opposed the BBB which prevented a major tax hike on individual income are so concerned about raising taxes on imported goods.

That’s because tariffs are regressive taxes but income taxes are not.

 

[heathrowinneo]

The markets are reacting positively to the Japan agreement and the 15% range its anticipating in a EU agreement. I do find it interesting that many of the same people who want to raise corporate income tax rates and who strenuously opposed the BBB which prevented a major tax hike on individual income are so concerned about raising taxes on imported goods.

If you know who pays the taxes on imported goods, the importer and the consumer, then you would understand. Tariffs tax the importing company and the end user.

 

[coati]

The Las Vegas strip.

Trump decided to outdo his great accomplishment of bankrupting a casino by bankrupting all of them, instead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/VvJsHknn47

Donald is the living embodiment of "failing upwards". He was born into wealth, he had an extremely easy life, and he inherited a portion of his dad's real estate empire. Because of the golden parachute he was born with, he could keep failing but still be seen as a success.

That dude kept failing over and over and over again, but he remained rich the whole time. He bankrupted his casinos more than once. He tried to start an airline but gave up on it after like 1-2 years. He tried to start a telecom company but gave up on it. He tried to start a travel website and gave up on it. He tried to start a magazine but gave up on it. (Do you see a pattern here?)

He created a university, but it got shut down and he had to pay a $25 million settlement due to fraud.

He tried to sell steaks at Sharper Image for some reason.

The only things Donald succeeds at are real estate, marketing, and fraud. But because he talks a big game and is a really confident liar, he's fooled many millions of people into thinking he's a gifted businessman. But in reality he's a constant failure who's been saved by his daddy's money his whole stinking life.

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/7c64CAkr6I

And, he leaves behind a wake of destruction and fiscal ruin, such as what he is doing with our National Park system.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

That’s because tariffs are regressive taxes but income taxes are not.

I am not a tariff advocate. I did not support Trump’s launching of trade wars. That said, the tariff wars are a reality and we need to be honest about how it’s playing out.

The good news is Trump’s opening demands have proven to be negotiating tactics. The actual rates, while much higher than they were at the beginning of the year, are much lower than Trump’s initial demands. The high odds of a recession that the economic consensus held a few months ago has faded. Prices and employment numbers have stayed relatively stable and the S&P 500 is up 7.54% YTD.

To your point about income taxes vs tariffs (taxes on imported goods)…Yes, to the extent that tariffs get passed on to consumers, they are regressive. However, tariffs are capped by how much consumers spend rather than how much people work and earn. There is also some degree of choice over how they spend.

Corporate income taxes are also regressive in that they get passed on to consumers and shareholders. And while US individual income tax tables are very progressive, the fact remains that average Americans would have been paying significantly higher taxes next year if the BBB had not become law.

 

[Hel_Books]

.... the fact remains that average Americans would have been paying significantly higher taxes next year if the BBB had not become law.

Possibly some confusion about "averages" here. If the millionaires and billionaires have their taxes cut, then yes, on average the people pay less in tax. But that doesn't mean the average American got a break!

 

[DeluxAuto]

I am not a tariff advocate. I did not support Trump’s launching of trade wars. That said, the tariff wars are a reality and we need to be honest about how it’s playing out.

The good news is Trump’s opening demands have proven to be negotiating tactics. The actual rates, while much higher than they were at the beginning of the year, are much lower than Trump’s initial demands. The high odds of a recession that the economic consensus held a few months ago has faded. Prices and employment numbers have stayed relatively stable and the S&P 500 is up 7.54% YTD.

To your point about income taxes vs tariffs (taxes on imported goods)…Yes, to the extent that tariffs get passed on to consumers, they are regressive. However, tariffs are capped by how much consumers spend rather than how much people work and earn. There is also some degree of choice over how they spend.

Corporate income taxes are also regressive in that they get passed on to consumers and shareholders. And while US individual income tax tables are very progressive, the fact remains that average Americans would have been paying significantly higher taxes next year if the BBB had not become law.

We agree that trump's tariffs are working against Americans.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Possibly some confusion about "averages" here. If the millionaires and billionaires have their taxes cut, then yes, on average the people pay less in tax. But that doesn't mean the average American got a break!

I encourage you to compare before and after tax tables for middle class taxpayers, and educate yourself on other tax advantages in the bill, including AMT thresholds, standard deduction, child care tax credits, social security deduction (on top of standard deduction), tax exemptions for tips and OT, and other provisions.

Per analysis by the Tax Policy Center, filers with income between $67K and $119K will save on average $1,780. Filers between $119K and $217K will save $3,460. Those are not rich people, and those are meaningful savings.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

We agree that trump's tariffs are working against Americans.

There was broad agreement that the tariffs would work against Americans, but the predictions have not materialized so far. From the WSJ 3 days ago.

The U.S. Economy Is Regaining Its Swagger

When President Trump slapped tariffs on nations across the globe this spring, many economists feared higher prices and spending cuts would flatten the economy.
Consumer sentiment collapsed. The S&P 500 stock index fell by 19% between February and April. The world held its breath and waited for the bottom to drop out.
But that didn’t happen. Now businesses and consumers are regaining their swagger, and evidence is mounting that those who held back are starting to splurge again.
The stock market is reaching record highs. The University of Michigan’s consumer sentiment index, which tumbled in April to its lowest reading in almost three years, has begun climbing again. Retail sales are up more than economists had forecast, and sky-high inflation hasn’t materialized—at least not yet.

On the other hand, the tax code changes are not debatable. Your 2025 tax brackets will not go up thanks to the BBB.

 

[DeluxAuto]

There was broad agreement that the tariffs would work against Americans, but the predictions have not materialized so far. From the WSJ 3 days ago.

The U.S. Economy Is Regaining Its Swagger

When President Trump slapped tariffs on nations across the globe this spring, many economists feared higher prices and spending cuts would flatten the economy.
Consumer sentiment collapsed. The S&P 500 stock index fell by 19% between February and April. The world held its breath and waited for the bottom to drop out.
But that didn’t happen. Now businesses and consumers are regaining their swagger, and evidence is mounting that those who held back are starting to splurge again.
The stock market is reaching record highs. The University of Michigan’s consumer sentiment index, which tumbled in April to its lowest reading in almost three years, has begun climbing again. Retail sales are up more than economists had forecast, and sky-high inflation hasn’t materialized—at least not yet.

On the other hand, the tax code changes are not debatable. Your 2025 tax brackets will not go up thanks to the BBB.

Do you or don't you believe the WSJ?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Do you or don't you believe the WSJ?

Like all media reports, I look at the sources and other points of corroboration. The stock market indexes, retail sales data, inflation data, etc. are verifiable and support validate the article.

 

[ll74]

The stock market is breaking even

 

[ll74]

Lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948345547070341362

 

[DeluxAuto]

Like all media reports, I look at the sources and other points of corroboration. The stock market indexes, retail sales data, inflation data, etc. are verifiable and support validate the article.

Funny, your president doesn't believe them and you obviously didn't look at the criteria that showed consumers aren't making out well with your president's tariffs.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Funny, your president doesn't believe them and you obviously didn't look at the criteria that showed consumers aren't making out well with your president's tariffs.

I really don’t care what articles the president believes or disbelieves. It’s no secret that the WSJ editorial board is staunchly free trade and anti-tariff, and it’s no secret the news division prints stories that infuriate him. Two of them in particular this week.

I also don’t care if the tariffs are hurting you. Hope they are actually. They have had no significant impact on me and I’m delighted that I’ll be saving thousands on my income tax bill this year thanks to the BBB.

 

[DeluxAuto]

I really don’t care what articles the president believes or disbelieves. It’s no secret that the WSJ editorial board is staunchly free trade and anti-tariff, and it’s no secret the news division prints stories that infuriate him. Two of them in particular this week.

I also don’t care if the tariffs are hurting you. Hope they are actually. They have had no significant impact on me and I’m delighted that I’ll be saving thousands on my income tax bill this year thanks to the BBB.

L0L

Here's the thing, I'm well enough off that nothing this idiot does effects my bank accounts. The fact that it has an impact on you one proves that you suck at handling your finances.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

L0L

Here's the thing, I'm well enough off that nothing this idiot does affects my bank accounts. The fact that it has an impact on you one proves that you suck at handling your finances.

Tariffs have had no discernible impact on me but my income tax bill will be lower than it would have been if the BBB hadn’t passed is because I have income. You probably don’t because you’re a loser.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Tariffs have had no discernible impact on me but my income tax bill will be lower than it would have been if the BBB hadn’t passed is because I have income. You probably don’t because you’re a loser.

You had to move out of your home State because you couldn't afford it anymore. Hush, poboy.