any beef with the way writers treat (BDSM) gags?

[redwards_119]

curious if anyone wants to join my campaign to get writers to treat gags differently. very few gags prevent significant noise/screaming, and a great many people can speak while gagged in a mostly understandable way. this was inspired by a story that claimed a bit gag prevented all "audible" noises, and I feel like a grump complaining about it at all but I wondered if similarly minded folk also noticed this while reading.

 

[Bamagan]

curious if anyone wants to join my campaign to get writers to treat gags differently. very few gags prevent significant noise/screaming, and a great many people can speak while gagged in a mostly understandable way. this was inspired by a story that claimed a bit gag prevented all "audible" noises, and I feel like a grump complaining about it at all but I wondered if similarly minded folk also noticed this while reading.

The next mandatory staff meeting for all Literotica authors is scheduled for February 30. I'll put it on the agenda.

In all seriousness, only a tiny fraction of the people publishing on the site interact in the forum at all, and new authors pop up basically daily. Herding cats would be a cake-walk in comparison. Even allowing for the fact that a relatively small percentage of stories contain gags in the first place, regardless of how accurately they're described, I have doubts that your campaign will find a windmill to tilt against. But good luck!

 

[PennyThompson]

And here I thought this was going to be a thread about jokes

@redwards_119 sounds like it's time for you to write the most accurate and believable story about mouth gags that Lit has ever seen, I'm sure there's an audience that would appreciate it

 

[redwards_119]

sounds like it's time for you to write the most accurate and believable story about mouth gags that Lit has ever seen, I'm sure there's an audience that would appreciate it

all I ask is credit for saying my dialogue out loud while holding to whatever tongue restriction the gag I'm describing would produce

 

[WCSGarland]

As an author, I will not write a story where the gag muffles all sound completely, so I can't see that I should treat a gag any differently than I already do. And also, I can't see any benefit to trying to convince another author who is not aware of the titillation of screaming around a gag the additional erotic benefits of treating them differently.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I am curious though... You said that people can be mostly understandable in a gag?

This is a bit from a story where someone was trying to talk around an apple.

The corners of her lips twitched as she freed up her hands by biting into her apple to hold it with her mouth. Shuffling closer she said as sternly as she could with a blocked mouth, "Oh-hen." Opening his mouth he gave her a pained look as he felt the saliva and juices dripping down his face. Clara quickly pulled most of the crushed apple out of his mouth and told him to, "Saw-wul." Mathias snapped his mouth shut and swallowed what was left in it. Then he turned his attention to cleaning his face with hands and tongue much like a cat would.

"A heh!" Clara interrupted him crossly, "Hans."

"Ah, sorry," Mathias blushed and said contritely as he held his hands out.

"Oo-heh-wur," she instructed him.

After a moment of thought Mathias slowly put his hands together side by side and palms up. "Like this?" he asked uncertainty.

"Ehs," she mumbled affirmatively. Setting the apple in his palms she mumbled out, "Hole ih." Then she used her talons to delicately pry open the partially exposed seed chambers and flick the seeds away.

"Goh ah-heh," she mumbled to him before grasping her own apple and taking a bite.

Mathias glanced between her and the apple uncertainly for a moment before tossing the apple back into his mouth and crunching happily.

How does that compare to someone speaking around a gag?

 

[redwards_119]

I am curious though... You said that people can be mostly understandable in a gag?

This is a bit from a story where someone was trying to talk around an apple.



How does that compare to someone speaking around a gag?

well notably the characters in your story understand each other, as (I posit) they would if one or the other had on your standard ball gag. a lot of apples are considerably bigger than many ball gags, though, and I would bet your average gagged person is more comprehensible than your average about-to-be-roasted pig.

 

[ChuckWolf]

I misunderstood what this thread was about.

 

[redwards_119]

I misunderstood what this thread was about.

"more smut should be funny" is something I considered posting about but I guess I went with this first. I have edited the thread title to hopefully be more clear.

 

[TheLobster]

Magical gags that prevent any noise other than desperate hum-moaning are an ubiquitous trope in media, particularly movies. It may have little to do with reality, yes, but the audience has been conditioned through that media and will expect gags to muffled most sounds (and certainly any sounds that would alert third parties to the victim’s predicament, unless plot demands otherwise).

In other, more fancy words, conformance with tropes trumps verisimilitude.

 

[Erozetta]

Sometimes it's just a personal preference. Could I speak while gagged? Yes. Do I want to? No. Will I? Only if I have to. (Which is to say, if I'm gonna die if I don't say something, I'll probably say something.)

It's also uncomfortable as hell and I've cut the corner of my lip trying to speak with a gag that was a little too tight.

 

[redwards_119]

Magical gags that prevent any noise other than desperate hum-moaning are an ubiquitous trope in media, particularly movies. It may have little to do with reality, yes, but the audience has been conditioned through that media and will expect gags to muffled most sounds (and certainly any sounds that would alert third parties to the victim’s predicament, unless plot demands otherwise).

In other, more fancy words, conformance with tropes trumps verisimilitude.

I appreciate the thoughtful response! this makes sense to me but it makes more sense if writing a kidnapped protagonist scene for basic cable, rather than the kind of thing I write around here. as others have noted, the kind of sounds that make it past a gag have their own uses in plot and dramatic tension.

But the more I think about your other, more fancy words, the more I think it's actually pointing to a more fundamental set of choices writers make, and should be aware they're making. Namely, adherence to tropes might annoy people knowledgeable about whatever your subject is, so be careful and deliberate about when you're doing it.

I've read a hundred stories on here that feature chastity and still have someone in the comments who needs to tell the author that actually, chastity locks are flimsy and really easy to remove. I always think this tedious, but it also makes me think there's clearly a segment of the audience that appreciates these kinds of tropes and their associated details being addressed without breaking them out of the story, and I strive to find that balance.

 

[redwards_119]

Sometimes it's just a personal preference. Could I speak while gagged? Yes. Do I want to? No. Will I? Only if I have to. (Which is to say, if I'm gonna die if I don't say something, I'll probably say something.)

It's also uncomfortable as hell and I've cut the corner of my lip trying to speak with a gag that was a little too tight.

any author who addressed sound while gagged in this manner (does the character want to? are they aware of or experiencing the hazards of doing so?) would get my appreciation, rather than spurring me to make a whiny thread

 

[Bramblethorn]

I sympathise, but I doubt you'll get far with shifting the preferences of other writers or readers.

Good news is there's an audience for just about everything here. If you post more realistic BDSM stories, you'll likely build up a readership of people who prefer that.

 

[lovecraft68]

What passes for BDSM in the majority of stories and people in the forums is on par with the accuracy of 50 shades of gray. BDSM here is often not much more than bitch gets hers and just using terms and devices with no research other than spending time reading the aforementioned inaccurate stories.

I've been involved in it to various degrees since my late teens and when I first popped in here was excited to get into the stories here as well as the forums. I learned quickly neither were worth much and they've devolved as time has gone on. There's a handful of authors and posters who get it beyond the "bondage is hawt" crowd, but the majority ranges from annoying wannabes to disturbing stalkers and sadists and people who don't know the difference and become victims. There was a time when a few people like the sorely missed Stellaomega kept that sort out or in line when they showed up. That was a long time ago.

If I sound like a snob, sue me. Its a lifestyle built on respect and trust, not tying people up and beating them.

Your point is valid, and as Bramble said, there is an audience for everything, including realistic BDSM(note she used that term which agrees with what I'm basically saying) but that crowd is becoming fewer and fewer as they get run off by posers. Write it the way it should be written and don't worry about the response. Just know at the end of the day its worth it to portray it the way it should be.

 

[redwards_119]

@lovecraft68 I won't call you a snob and I feel you, frustration with the level of things written is what got me writing. I've tried my hand at depicting relationships with trust and respect (and puppy play), as well as more straight sadistic fantasy.

But now I'm curious, does a "this is not a depiction of a healthy BDSM relationship" sort of disclaimer at the top of a story do anything for you? I sort of think the point of written erotica is to explore unrealistic spaces in an honest way, so I don't mind that stories don't portray the most realistic (or healthy) dynamics.

 

[lovecraft68]

@lovecraft68 I won't call you a snob and I feel you, frustration with the level of things written is what got me writing. I've tried my hand at depicting relationships with trust and respect (and puppy play), as well as more straight sadistic fantasy.

But now I'm curious, does a "this is not a depiction of a healthy BDSM relationship" sort of disclaimer at the top of a story do anything for you? I sort of think the point of written erotica is to explore unrealistic spaces in an honest way, so I don't mind that stories don't portray the most realistic (or healthy) dynamics.

We're all different, and we can all just roll with different things while other things not so much. I get this is fiction and fiction has to fiction. I think what gets me is because BDSM already has a lot of negative light around it that it doesn't help when a lot of authors here are dumping what is really non con and abuse into that category to circumvent the possibly closer screening it would get in the category meant for it. Some stuff isn't along those lines but more or less its almost all men on top and I will claw my eyes out if I see one more "Strong women discovers her submissive side" which of course exists, but here its to sooth and stroke the weak make ego that can't handle a strong woman.

We all know that the reality is the sub is the shotcaller. But not in stories on a site like this. So, I guess my answer is a disclaimer wouldn't really make a difference because I swore off even clicking on that category some time ago. Once in a while if someone looking for feedback has a short story in BDSM I might look but generally the title/tag and first paragraph will tell the tale.

This is a bit of an exaggeration, but a comparison that makes sense. Imagine you're someone who is of a certain religious belief and you go somewhere and all you hear is the perversion of your faith. Would you continue to go there? I don't. I don't fault anyone who does in the sense of write whatever you want, but when the "No, this is how it is," starts, that's another story.

 

[NuclearFairy]

@lovecraft68 Yeah, sadly I've run into more healthy bdsm relationships in erotic horror, sci-fy/fantasy and non-human than I have in BDSM.

Although sometimes in erotic horror the sub turns out to be some sort of spirit that is slowly draining the guy while trapping him into a fantasy... But ya know up until the horror reveal.

 

[TheLobster]

Namely, adherence to tropes might annoy people knowledgeable about whatever your subject is, so be careful and deliberate about when you're doing it.

People who are knowledgeable about a particular domain are usually also aware how ignorant and misguided the general public is about it. The more savvy ones realize how fiction needs to reflect those ubiquitous misconceptions to be believable to its audience.

I’m sure you know that feeling of second-hand embarrassment from experience, when you see a movie getting something wrong in the area you’re the expert in. Knowing a thing or two about IT security, for example, I always cringe when I see that scene in Skyfall where the chief geek of MI:6 plugs an unknown USB stick straight into their mainframe. But that’s just me, and I get over it quickly, and it doesn’t impede my enjoyment of the movie as a whole.

 

[countdowntolov3]

In my experience understandability with a gag in is less about how big the gag is and more about where it sits in your mouth. Gags that are set far back on the tongue--because of their shape, or because of where the strap tensions--can make articulating really hard.

That being said, magic total silencing gags are an immersion breaker for me too. I can express quite a variety of opinions just using my nose and throat!

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's something that many people in the "BDSM community" do not understand or appreciate: most people who enjoy BDSM stories are not part of this community. They're just ordinary people who get off on reading stories about bondage/control/sadomasochism/etc. They know nothing about the "rules" that the members of the community follow, and they don't care. These are 98% of the people who read the 50 Shades of Grey series (I was one, back in the day, and knew nothing about this community when I read the books).

If you feel you need to write stories that conform to the "rules" that the responsible and knowledgeable BDSM practitioners preach, then by all means do so. But others with no knowledge of those rules or the subtle realities of BDSM practice are also free to write BDSM stories for no reason other than to give pleasure to the many (and mostly unschooled) readers who get pleasure from the stories. Their fantasy ball gags may be different from yours.

In the erotic fantasy world, ball gags can have whatever properties you want them to have, and most readers will ride that wagon as long as you make it SEEM, kinda sorta, believable, whether it is or not.

 

[redwards_119]

In the erotic fantasy world, ball gags can have whatever properties you want them to have, and most readers will ride that wagon as long as you make it SEEM, kinda sorta, believable, whether it is or not.

this is undoubtedly true and I readily acknowledge that my frustration has little to do with other's writing/enjoyment of stories. I regret my "influencing authors" framing when all I was looking for was to grouse to sympathetic folk and talk writing, both of which I got. thanks folks!

 

[StillStunned]

Here's something that many people in the "BDSM community" do not understand or appreciate: most people who enjoy BDSM stories are not part of this community. They're just ordinary people who get off on reading stories about bondage/control/sadomasochism/etc. They know nothing about the "rules" that the members of the community follow, and they don't care. These are 98% of the people who read the 50 Shades of Grey series (I was one, back in the day, and knew nothing about this community when I read the books).

I totally agree. To the vast majority of people, the notion of BDSM is handcuffs in the bedroom, some black latex and perhaps a riding crop.

 

[Britva415]

Next on the agenda, spy novels and hit-man movies which inaccurately portray the effectiveness of “silencers” on guns.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I wouldn't really consider myself part of the BDSM community, since my knowledge of it is only a bit more than passing and I've never really hung out with anyone (aside from my SO) who would consider themselves part of it. But I personally find it more arousing to read realistic healthy depictions of it than not.

Which I personally do not think contradicts with my enjoyment of noncon fantasies. Although fun fact, I've found better aftercare descriptions in cnc that're posted in NC/R than when they're posted in BDSM.