The books you hated!

[Hungry68]

Anna Karenina

 

[ShamBaLa]

Bridges of Madison County.

 

[Duleigh]

Introduction to Algebra

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Damn, I forgot about this thread.

Recently, I went through some of the books from my high school days, and I found "The Trial" by Franz Kafka and "The Stranger" by Albert Camus. I distinctly remember having positive thoughts about "The Trial", even though its absurdity could hardly have resonated with me at the time.
I also remember absolutely hating "The Stranger". The main character of the book - I remember thinking he was an absolute waste of oxygen, his blandness and lifelessness killing any sympathy one could have felt for him.
Well, I was a teenager when I read both of those books, so I wonder if I would find the books better or worse now?

Anyone else had some strong impressions about these books?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I’m not sure you'd want to know what Neil Gaiman would think of your writing.

I'd love to know.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Christopher Moore's Bite Me: A Love Story is the third novel in his Blood Sucking Fiends trilogy. It has the weakest plotting of any of Moore's work, which is saying something because he cannot write plots. It shifts the focus of the story onto a series of secondary and tertiary characters away from the two people who are the reason it has the A Love Story subtitle. The new primary narrator is arguably the most annoying character he's ever created, and her POV is delivered entirely through diary entries that read as though she's dictating to a magic pencil -- a weird combination of text-speak and teen-girl patois with the sorts of filler words you'd use in dialogue but never in writing. I'm sorry, "kayso, LOL, like, here is what I did today" is not a sentence any person, no matter how vapid, would write with paper and pen.

The series is about, essentially, a relationship between two people who tell each other they love each other every four seconds; in the back half of Bite Me this relationship breaks down so Jody, the female narrator of book 1, can run off with a tertiary character introduced in the third novel and Tommy, the male narrator of book 2, can become a partner in a poly relationship between a 22 year old genius grad student and a 16 year old high school moron. This tells the reader that every minute they spent reading the first and second book was a complete fucking waste of time, because the only thing that either book is about is the progression of the romantic relationship between Jody and Tommy and the ways they find to demonstrate love to each other.

It retroactively ruins both prequels, which is especially annoying because Blood Sucking Fiends and You Suck are complete individually and together; they don't need a sequel. The plot of the third novel only occurs, in fact, because multiple characters play catch with the Idiot Ball. I can't help but think he wrote it in an effort to say to his publishers: stop asking me to write a sequel to Blood Sucking Fiends. I hate this, I hate writing it, let me burn it all down so you'll stop asking. It reads like deliberate self-sabotage, and is the only book I've ever deleted from my Kindle library.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I didn't like Divergent. I literally thought the movie was better. It was way too much of a slog for young adult fiction. I also didn't like The Lightning Thief. I didn't like how they bullied the redhead girl and played it off like that was fine just because she was "annoying" or whatever. I was friends with the disabled kids in middle school. And not enough Medusa. So I didn't read the rest of either of those series as a teenager. They're just not as good as Hunger Games and Harry Potter for that young adult type shit.

I don't think I like young adult shit as a whole. I should have skipped to reading Cormac.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Children of time - Adrian Tchaikovsky
The Sparrow - Mary Doria Russell

 

[YmaOHyd]

I don't think I like young adult shit as a whole. I should have skipped to reading Cormac.

The thing about young adult shit is that a lot of the authors need to read their own work and think critically about it for, like, two seconds.

My single strongest pop culture opinion is that Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series, which she's been writing for like forty years, is about a fascist dystopia and she's totally ignorant of that. It's about a country... where every kid who's born with the ability to do magic either goes mad or is drafted into a paramilitary organization that works as spies, military advisors, roaming plenipotentiaries with full power of judge jury and executioner, and open and secret police. They're all educated at a single school in a single curriculum focused on honing their ability to work for the government in one of those roles. They're indoctrinated into loyalty and trained in their magic simultaneously. And, oh yeah, they're involuntarily bonded to a magical spirit that's burrowed so deeply into their psyche that un-bonding them causes massive, permanent psychological and emotional damage, and that spirit has full access to their thoughts and emotions at all times, and has the ability to twist and manipulate their thoughts and memories.

Sorry, this is supposed to describe a utopia? Just because it's a place where boy-children are allowed to like cleaning and girl-children are allowed to like riding horses and playing with swords? Just because it's Nice doesn't mean it's not totalitarian! The Stasi being dedicated to upholding pluralism doesn't make them not the frickin' Stasi!

 

[Audiflex]

Christopher Moore's Bite Me: A Love Story is the third novel in his Blood Sucking Fiends trilogy. It has the weakest plotting of any of Moore's work, which is saying something because he cannot write plots. It shifts the focus of the story onto a series of secondary and tertiary characters away from the two people who are the reason it has the A Love Story subtitle. The new primary narrator is arguably the most annoying character he's ever created, and her POV is delivered entirely through diary entries that read as though she's dictating to a magic pencil -- a weird combination of text-speak and teen-girl patois with the sorts of filler words you'd use in dialogue but never in writing. I'm sorry, "kayso, LOL, like, here is what I did today" is not a sentence any person, no matter how vapid, would write with paper and pen.

The series is about, essentially, a relationship between two people who tell each other they love each other every four seconds; in the back half of Bite Me this relationship breaks down so Jody, the female narrator of book 1, can run off with a tertiary character introduced in the third novel and Tommy, the male narrator of book 2, can become a partner in a poly relationship between a 22 year old genius grad student and a 16 year old high school moron. This tells the reader that every minute they spent reading the first and second book was a complete fucking waste of time, because the only thing that either book is about is the progression of the romantic relationship between Jody and Tommy and the ways they find to demonstrate love to each other.

It retroactively ruins both prequels, which is especially annoying because Blood Sucking Fiends and You Suck are complete individually and together; they don't need a sequel. The plot of the third novel only occurs, in fact, because multiple characters play catch with the Idiot Ball. I can't help but think he wrote it in an effort to say to his publishers: stop asking me to write a sequel to Blood Sucking Fiends. I hate this, I hate writing it, let me burn it all down so you'll stop asking. It reads like deliberate self-sabotage, and is the only book I've ever deleted from my Kindle library.

Oof, this is brutal but honestly, valid. It sounds like the third book completely derailed what made the first two so enjoyable. The shift in focus and the weird character arcs would be frustrating for any fan who was invested in Jody and Tommy's relationship. Totally get why you'd want to pretend it never happened.

 

[Audiflex]

I didn't like Divergent. I literally thought the movie was better. It was way too much of a slog for young adult fiction. I also didn't like The Lightning Thief. I didn't like how they bullied the redhead girl and played it off like that was fine just because she was "annoying" or whatever. I was friends with the disabled kids in middle school. And not enough Medusa. So I didn't read the rest of either of those series as a teenager. They're just not as good as Hunger Games and Harry Potter for that young adult type shit.

I don't think I like young adult shit as a whole. I should have skipped to reading Cormac.

Divergent did feel like a slog, and The Lightning Thief had some questionable moments, especially with how they treated characters like the redhead girl. It’s hard to compete with Hunger Game or Harry Potter, which set the bar pretty high.

If YA isn’t your thing, diving into Cormac McCarthy or other more mature authors might be the move. Sometimes you just outgrow the tropes and need something with more depth. What’s your favourite Cormac book so far?

 

[Audiflex]

The thing about young adult shit is that a lot of the authors need to read their own work and think critically about it for, like, two seconds.

My single strongest pop culture opinion is that Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series, which she's been writing for like forty years, is about a fascist dystopia and she's totally ignorant of that. It's about a country... where every kid who's born with the ability to do magic either goes mad or is drafted into a paramilitary organization that works as spies, military advisors, roaming plenipotentiaries with full power of judge jury and executioner, and open and secret police. They're all educated at a single school in a single curriculum focused on honing their ability to work for the government in one of those roles. They're indoctrinated into loyalty and trained in their magic simultaneously. And, oh yeah, they're involuntarily bonded to a magical spirit that's burrowed so deeply into their psyche that un-bonding them causes massive, permanent psychological and emotional damage, and that spirit has full access to their thoughts and emotions at all times, and has the ability to twist and manipulate their thoughts and memories.

Sorry, this is supposed to describe a utopia? Just because it's a place where boy-children are allowed to like cleaning and girl-children are allowed to like riding horses and playing with swords? Just because it's Nice doesn't mean it's not totalitarian! The Stasi being dedicated to upholding pluralism doesn't make them not the frickin' Stasi!

Wow, you’re not wrong, when you break it down like that, Valdemar sounds super dystopian. It’s wild how something can be framed as a utopia just because it’s progressive in some areas, but the underlying system is, like, full-on authoritarian. The whole “magic police with mind-reading spirit animals” thing is not the vibe of a free society.

It’s funny how some authors don’t seem to realize the implications of their own world-building. Like, did Mercedes Lackey intend to write a fascist dystopia, or did she just not think it through? Either way, you’ve got a solid point.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Children of time - Adrian Tchaikovsky

I didn't read that one, but I did read Shards of Earth and a part of its sequel before giving up. I don't understand what's the big fuss about this author. I found his writing dull as fuck in so many ways.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I didn't read that one, but I did read Shards of Earth and a part of its sequel before giving up. I don't understand what's the big fuss about this author. I found his writing dull as fuck in so many ways.

I did not finish Tchaikovsky either. The writing was awful and the plot boring.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Divergent did feel like a slog, and The Lightning Thief had some questionable moments, especially with how they treated characters like the redhead girl. It’s hard to compete with Hunger Game or Harry Potter, which set the bar pretty high.

If YA isn’t your thing, diving into Cormac McCarthy or other more mature authors might be the move. Sometimes you just outgrow the tropes and need something with more depth. What’s your favourite Cormac book so far?

So far it's The Road because I haven't read the other ones yet except for Child of God and some of Blood Meridian and Stella Maris, and I'm just getting started

 

[MillieDynamite]

Gadsby is a novel by Ernest Vincent Wright, and there is not one E or e in the entire book. Ulysses by James Joyce, it is very strange and, at points, incomprehensible. A lot of it is written in stream of conscienceness. I tried to read the first book in the Twilight series, vampires that twinkle aren't my thing.

 

[AlexBailey]

Damn, I forgot about this thread.

Recently, I went through some of the books from my high school days, and I found "The Trial" by Franz Kafka and "The Stranger" by Albert Camus. I distinctly remember having positive thoughts about "The Trial", even though its absurdity could hardly have resonated with me at the time.
I also remember absolutely hating "The Stranger". The main character of the book - I remember thinking he was an absolute waste of oxygen, his blandness and lifelessness killing any sympathy one could have felt for him.
Well, I was a teenager when I read both of those books, so I wonder if I would find the books better or worse now?

Anyone else had some strong impressions about these books?

I remember reading The Stranger back in high school.

To me at the time it was a valuable lesson in how you can get so caught up in your own perspective and biases that you can commit atrocities while thinking you’re in the right, but later when cooler heads and more knowledge is available you can come to realize you were wrong.

Now I’ve got The Cure’s ‘Killing an Arab’ playing in my head.

Killing an Arab - The Cure

Standing on a beach
With a gun in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring down the barrel
At the Arab on the ground
To see his open mouth
But I hear no sound
I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an Arab
I can turn and walk away, or I can fire the gun
Staring at the sky, staring at the sun
Whichever I choose, it amounts to the same
Absolutely nothing
I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an Arab
I feel the steel butt jump
Smooth in my hand
Staring at the sea, staring at the sand
Staring at myself
Reflected in the eyes of
The dead man on the beach (the dead man on the beach)
I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an Arab

Earlier in this thread many people were bashing Catcher in the Rye, especially the protagonist, Holden Caufield. A recent forum conversations prompted me to re read it and I still consider it to be a socially impactful work. Like the protagonist of The Stranger, Holden Caufield is an unreliable narrator. The story is told through their perspectives which is severely limited by their own views and biases. The books explore universal ideas in particular settings.

To me the point of both of these stories is how an individual’s perspective is limited. In Holden’s case he is an asshole but there is reason behind it. The story may not work for some readers because of its 1940-50s setting. The world was very different then but the story is about a sensitive person coming of age in that setting. Holden is very sensitive about all kinds of things, especially the death of his older brother. He’s a young person struggling with emotions in a time when mainstream men weren’t supposed to show emotion and ‘emotional intelligence’ was almost unheard of. He’s a deep and tragic character who’s absolutely coming apart at the seams.


I think pert of my connection with the story is that my stepfather was from Holden’s generation. I see his social conditioning reflected in the times of Catcher. I suspect that the further we get from that era the fewer readers will connect with Holden’s struggles.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I remember reading The Stranger back in high school.

To me at the time it was a valuable lesson in how you can get so caught up in your own perspective and biases that you can commit atrocities while thinking you’re in the right, but later when cooler heads and more knowledge is available you can come to realize you were wrong.

Now I’ve got The Cure’s ‘Killing an Arab’ playing in my head.




Earlier in this thread many people were bashing Catcher in the Rye, especially the protagonist, Holden Caufield. A recent forum conversations prompted me to re read it and I still consider it to be a socially impactful work. Like the protagonist of The Stranger, Holden Caufield is an unreliable narrator. The story is told through their perspectives which is severely limited by their own views and biases. The books explore universal ideas in particular settings.

To me the point of both of these stories is how an individual’s perspective is limited. In Holden’s case he is an asshole but there is reason behind it. The story may not work for some readers because of its late 1950s setting. The world was very different then but the story is about a sensitive person coming of age in that setting. Holden is very sensitive about all kinds of things, especially the death of his older brother. He’s a young person struggling with emotions in a time when mainstream men weren’t supposed to show emotion and ‘emotional intelligence’ was almost unheard of. He’s a deep and tragic character who’s absolutely coming apart at the seams.


I think pert of my connection with the story is that my stepfather was from Holden’s generation. I see his social conditioning reflected in the times of Catcher. I suspect that the further we get from that era the fewer readers will connect with Holden’s struggles.

I didn't read Catcher in the Rye partly due to all the comparisons with The Stranger. I've always thought there was no way I would like anything that compares to that book.
The Stranger achieved such high acclaim, but it never resonated with me. It's not about the MC being good or bad, it's about being relatable. And Meursault was such a robot that it was impossible for me to feel any connection to him. I think that the extremeness of his blandness was detrimental to the book as a whole.

 

[SimonDoom]

Divergent did feel like a slog, and The Lightning Thief had some questionable moments, especially with how they treated characters like the redhead girl. It’s hard to compete with Hunger Game or Harry Potter, which set the bar pretty high.

If YA isn’t your thing, diving into Cormac McCarthy or other more mature authors might be the move. Sometimes you just outgrow the tropes and need something with more depth. What’s your favourite Cormac book so far?

I thought Blood Meridian was a masterpiece. One of the best novels of the last 50 years. It's twisted and perverse and dark as hell, but the prose and the creative vision are amazing. I also liked All The Pretty Horses. I haven't read The Road yet.

 

[RoperTrace]

I may have weighed in on this thread a long time ago, not sure. Mine is/was Waiting for Godot, by Samuel Beckett. My niece's husband, who is from Scotland loves that play/story.

 

[Duleigh]

The Shepherd's Crown by Terry Pratchett.

The Shepherd's Crown was published seven months after Sir Terry's death in March of 2015. It is the 41st novel in the Discworld series, and the fifth based on the character Tiffany Aching, my least favorite of his leading characters. It sits there on my bookshelf daring me to open it, but I can't. The moment I complete that book, it's over. I was introduced to Terry Pratchett a thousand or so years ago, give or take a few centuries here and there. Sir Terry and I were introduced by the Science Fiction Book Club in 1981 through the book Strata, a delightfully silly book about a flat earth. I still have the book, I just checked it for the copyright date. Then I looked up the Science Fiction Book Club, and it is gone too. It shuttered its doors on February 1, 2025 after 80 years of enlightening the world of the possibilities that lay out there.

Terry and I traveled all over his disc shaped world, a world that rests on the backs of four elephants that stand on the back of a great sea turtle. We traveled from Ankh Morpork to so many wonderful places. He introduced me to wizards and witches, of invisible dragons that live in an upside down mountain and the continent of XXXX that was based on @Rustyoznail 's neighborhood. To the empire of Agatea where tin and Aluminum are more valuable than gold, and the Unseen University where wizards try to kill their superiors without the aid of the Assassin's Guild. Such delightful nuttiness inspired me to write The Enchantress Octalogy which readers said had captured the spirit, the humor, and the insanity of Sir Terry's Discworld.

In 2018 I almost read The Shepherd's Crown. Doctor Gloom at National Jewish Health in Denver gave me five years to live back in 2013. Fuck. So when The Shepherd's Crown became available I decided to read it in 2018 before I went to join Terry. In 2017 the doc said, "Let's try Adempas" a nasty, horrible drug that you have to titrate up to your prescribed level I started at 1/2 a milligram 3 times a day for 6 weeks then bumped up to 1 milligram 3 times a day. At a dose of 2.5 milligrams (maximum safe dose) my symptoms eased and breathing was no longer a struggle. I moved to sea level and I don't need the oxygen tank constantly. Adempas is $300 a pill but it's keeping me going so I put The Shepherd's Crown back on the bookshelf and went back to Strata, followed by The Color of Magic...

I go back and reread those 40 novels every so often, but when I get to The Shepherd's Crown, I go back to #1, Strata, because when I read The Shepherd's Crown, it's over.

 

[AlexBailey]

I didn't read Catcher in the Rye partly due to all the comparisons with The Stranger. I've always thought there was no way I would like anything that compares to that book.
The Stranger achieved such high acclaim, but it never resonated with me. It's not about the MC being good or bad, it's about being relatable. And Meursault was such a robot that it was impossible for me to feel any connection to him. I think that the extremeness of his blandness was detrimental to the book as a whole.

As I said, it’s been a long time since I read The Stranger but as I remember, Meursault has a very different voice, more self-assured and conceited compared to Holden’s deprecating self-analysis and inner turmoil.

The books are similar in that they’re both set in the same time period (though Stranger is in Algiers and Catcher is in New York and surrounding areas) they both have unreliable first person narrators who gain perspective throughout the story, otherwise they are very different.

Both books have been widely assigned and widely banned for use in high school, so both have had a significant influence on popular literature.

Catcher has been credited with being a major influence for young adult writings, especially in using first person self reflection as a means for personal development. I think it may have helped broader society to become more emotionally self aware.

The Stranger has a very stiff MC, who only reflects on his own biases after being subjected to legal consequences. To me it serves more as a warning to people about believing blindly in their own thoughts.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

It’s funny how some authors don’t seem to realize the implications of their own world-building.

Yes and I'm a stickler for these types of things. I was going to write a sci-fi roleplay on another forum with this guy and I told him that we needed to get all the tech down first so that it all made sense and so that we didn't get blind-sided whipping out some magic tech pill that ruins the plausibility of the plot. He agreed, but when I asked him his ideas for how things should work he said, "we should just come up with whatever is convenient for the scene," and I said, "that's the exact opposite of what you just agreed to."

Lazy, LAZY world building.

Do your fucking homework. If you're writing sci-fi tech or magic or mythical beasts, get your world straight before you lay out your plot. I have zero tolerance for this. I don't need to get invested into your world for 5k, 10k, 20k words and then get eyerollingly sucked right out of the story by implausible tech or magic that ruins the motives of the entire society.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Pretty much everything I've read from Dean Koontz. But not until the end of the book! Gods help me, but that man cannot end a story to save his life! It's such a shame too, because he can spin a decent yarn.

I once sent him a DM through his website after a particularly disappointing story. I called his work 'ejaculation without orgasm'. Surpringly, I didn't hear back from him.

 

[Audiflex]

So far it's The Road because I haven't read the other ones yet except for Child of God and some of Blood Meridian and Stella Maris, and I'm just getting started

Great, so you've got a lot to catch up on.