Trump fucks up again. Ukraine negotiation goes sideways
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Cat
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Yup... This is pretty unbelievable.
If it was not because it is actually happening, no one would have believed it.
But, who is the advisors to the American president? Why is no one stopping him?
Can people not see, that this means trouble for the civil American as well?
- - Tarifs, who is going to pay for a trade war... Not the president.
- How is this going to make the world buy more American? Put tarifs on European goods, and we have the Anti coercion instrument.
- - Halting military aid for Ukraine, even threatening with "closing down their Starlink access (which is paid and bought by Poland!) If Ukraine did not fall in line.
- So, when Europe is going to buy military material for thousands of billions of dollars the next many years.. Each year! The American president is giving us every reason why not to buy American.
- - Make America Great Again.
- And lose the status as The leader of the free world.
- - Remove Russian sanctions.
- The best way to show USA's soon to be former allies that:
- With friends like us, who needs..
How is this going to make the daily day-to-day living in the States better, cheaper.. enabling the citizens to feel prouder and more respected in the rest of the world?
Or, does the American president really think, that he does not need the rest of the world? That his bullying and ruling by fear works in these times?
It is like he took a page from Machiavelli and said: guys! This is what we are going to do!
Cogan
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My guess is as good as yours.
But Trumps ego is a bit dented because he miss calculated the reactions from Europe. So he takes the strongest weapon he has and demand that President Zelenskyj comes back and kiss his feet. That what Trump thinks you do to a King that you have "offended".
And if President Zelenskyj doesn't do that because he didn't think he was wrong (and I and the rest of Europe agrees) Trump can always point a finger at President Zelenskyj and say "It was he who started it all! He's the troublemaker!" and then blame President Zelenskyj for the rest of the war.
Trump is a big child who think this is a game of Risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_(game)
Cat
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And as First Buddy, the dear American president got his sidekick to spread misinformation and try to destabilise Ukraine..
It is, if it were not because of the severity of this situation, scary and interesting to see this setup:
The former Leader of the Free World, spewing more misinformation than a Russian Troll Fabric, apparently walking in too small shoes..
So easily offended.
Having a very problematic need for praise and worship from the rest of the world.
... I just do not get it.
It is as if the president forgot something very important: Geo politic is not about his own personal feelings and emotions.
Also, they would lose so much if they played Risk.. it is not even interesting to play with them!!
Cogan
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I can only agree 100% with you.
Look at the map on the board game. I'm sure Trump has it on his desk as a tablet.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Risk_game_board.svg/2560px-Risk_game_board.svg.png
When I think of Trump, Vance and Musk my mind always picture this trio.
And it's no fun at all if you think about it......https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj-vjXbzmlZ9R3C1PBrsNpixJ-J-Ty4iLya2qsbeOPQb8yFoXDDQQZUuSyDMPbk2Hh-0ppYK-VBRYicYlNG2U-bTXH35dtTkcsJhSyDLrgPmzvMpO_YOcB6PnYqo0leO0GZ6Gw_R4omcu8/s1600/princejohnhisssheriffcels.jpg
Cat
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I can only agree 100% with you.
Look at the map on the board game. I'm sure Trump has it on his desk as a tablet.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Risk_game_board.svg/2560px-Risk_game_board.svg.png
When I think of Trump, Vance and Musk my mind always picture this trio.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj-vjXbzmlZ9R3C1PBrsNpixJ-J-Ty4iLya2qsbeOPQb8yFoXDDQQZUuSyDMPbk2Hh-0ppYK-VBRYicYlNG2U-bTXH35dtTkcsJhSyDLrgPmzvMpO_YOcB6PnYqo0leO0GZ6Gw_R4omcu8/s1600/princejohnhisssheriffcels.jpg
(Okay lidt sjovt er det!! Jeg grinte højt i hvert fald!
)Ahem... Not laughing.. nope..
But, if it were not because it is reality.. It would be unbelievable.. Even as slapstick comedy!
Cogan
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Skratt är bästa försvar för tillfället när risken är så överhängande för ett eskalerande av situationen.(Okay lidt sjovt er det!! Jeg grinte højt i hvert fald!
Ahem... Not laughing.. nope..
But, if it were not because it is reality.. It would be unbelievable.. Even as slapstick comedy!
But the similarities are too many to ignore. One "King", one Sheriff that barks when the "King" says so and one sneaky advisor that tickles the"Kings" ear with "the truth" or alternative facts. All for their own benefits.
UltraChad
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Nope, he was betting on it. He just gave them the opportunity to stick their noses up in the air at us like he knew they would.
Then fuck him and the rest of Europe.
Yup....Zelensky and Europe want WW3, and they have actively refused diplomacy.
So fuck them.
In a sense it is the realest game of Risk there is.
Europeans are just mad they aren't able to Smug him into fighting/financing their WW3.
Stay mad warmongers.
Cogan
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You are so wrong on every point.
But since you are made of Teflon and don't take fact as the truth I'll leave it there.
ChloeTzang
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At this point there's no real doubt that whatever Trump does or says, he's allied with Putin for whatever reason. Literally everything he is saying and doing is guaranteed to help Putin.
It's best for Europe and Zelensky to just recognize this and accept that they need to go it alone. It's going to make it longer and tougher, but the EU can do it, with sufficient political well (which is the BIG question). Do Merx, Macron and Starmer have the balls to dramatically increase defense spending and cut through the red tape and bureacuracy to do whats needed to be done - and accept that the relationship with the USA has changed to adverserial for the moment, and that it will never be what it was after Biden and Trump.
Actually, the below is not completely true, Trump did ask Putin to accept the lifting of US sanctions against Russia.
And after Trump's recent decision to suspend military aid for Ukraine, many civilians will die without the support of Ukrainian air defense, which was provided by long-term contracts with American factories. Trump has turned himself from an obstacle to peace into a murderer who is complicit with Putin.
It's best for Europe and Zelensky to just recognize this and accept that they need to go it alone. It's going to make it longer and tougher, but the EU can do it, with sufficient political well (which is the BIG question). Do Merx, Macron and Starmer have the balls to dramatically increase defense spending and cut through the red tape and bureacuracy to do whats needed to be done - and accept that the relationship with the USA has changed to adverserial for the moment, and that it will never be what it was after Biden and Trump.
Actually, the below is not completely true, Trump did ask Putin to accept the lifting of US sanctions against Russia.
And after Trump's recent decision to suspend military aid for Ukraine, many civilians will die without the support of Ukrainian air defense, which was provided by long-term contracts with American factories. Trump has turned himself from an obstacle to peace into a murderer who is complicit with Putin.
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ChloeTzang
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The Roman's have quotes for everything.....
Cat
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Not going to lie - this is not fun over here in Europe right now.
That tension we have been feeling up until now, just seems to tighten even more.
So, are we going to step up?
Naturally!
- how big is the hole that we need to fill in?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
More numbers:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
It is big, extremely.. but not impossible.
(I would like to stress : look at Denmarks contribution.. we are 5 million people. That should put some perspective to the amount of aid the US have given.)
But the biggest problem are the anti missiles.. The system Ukraine is using is American.. we are going to have to figure out a solution on that problem really fast!!
It is going to take time to produce all the military material that is needed..
One thing is for sure: Europe is not going to buy "made in America" material.
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Cat
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And yet.. They fell.
What is happening is the US.. with the foolish trio.. It feels like a bad repetition of the history.
Hopefully the next generation is better at learning these things.
Cogan
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We have a lot of both knowledge and technology in Europe. And best of all, both SAAB and Bofors has all their production and development here.
If they stop delivering to USA both them and Israel will have a shortage of supply. But they don't see that yet.
But yes you are right as usual.
Anti missiles is one of the deals we made with the USA. We deliver anti tank guns to you and you deliver anti missile system to us. As allies do......
Cogan
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That would be interesting to look at.
The only thing we have in Sweden, that I can think of now, is the missile system on our fighter jets. And the engines in the fighter jets. The engine is easy to replace but the missile system is another thing.
eric_erosfan
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Maybe just shut off power to the red states.
Bn2f
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Ok. Help me out here PB cos maybe I missed it, but Liz Cheney is still anti choice. She would vote for furthering voter suppression and against the LGBTQ community. More assault weapons? Lower taxes for the 1%? Deporting immigrants? Yes! Yes! And yes! She is still a conservative but she gets 1 very big damn thing right - that donald trump is a threat to democracy and she then worked her ass off to stop him from being elected.
What in da fuck has Chloe done?
Oh, I get that he’s always been for Ukrainian sovereignty and that their tone has become sharper in criticizing trump but this member, IMO, is still the same racist, anti American, shithead agitator as before. Few posted as many lies and propaganda in the service of getting trump elected as this member. Look, I’m not wanting any MAGA apologies but this is now the 3rd election with the orange asshole - some acknowledgment of a mistake is needed. Have I missed the Liz Cheney legwork and desire to fix the problem by this member??? I’ll apologize if so. No? Then I’ll be over here in my little corner still saying fuck this foreign agent troll to fuckin Hell.
What in da fuck has Chloe done?
Oh, I get that he’s always been for Ukrainian sovereignty and that their tone has become sharper in criticizing trump but this member, IMO, is still the same racist, anti American, shithead agitator as before. Few posted as many lies and propaganda in the service of getting trump elected as this member. Look, I’m not wanting any MAGA apologies but this is now the 3rd election with the orange asshole - some acknowledgment of a mistake is needed. Have I missed the Liz Cheney legwork and desire to fix the problem by this member??? I’ll apologize if so. No? Then I’ll be over here in my little corner still saying fuck this foreign agent troll to fuckin Hell.
UltraChad
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Those are all blue states LOL
DeluxAuto
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In 1994, we promised Ukraine that if they gave up their nukes, we would protect them against all invaders - ESPECIALLY RUSSIA. In 2025, we cut them off and partnered with Russia to rape their land of precious minerals. We are no longer trusted by our allies. You people made a *yuge* mistake.
DeluxAuto
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I've said that this is how Dems will destroy the MAGATs in a civil war.
Mrtenant
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Michigan polls are showing a majority of people wanting to become part of Canada.
Much like how Russia took Crimea, Canada is interested in adding Michigan to it's borders for the sake of those people who show that they are really Canadians at heart.
In time, Canada may decide that the U.S. current climate of fascist leanings and rhetoric is a threat and then, much like Russia, decide to invade and liberate the U.S. from the fascist regime.
Whole populations would be relocated to Canada during the skirmishes while the world is aghast with the war.
With recent alienation and trade wars, the U.S. stands alone and finds itself accepting trade partners and energy supplements from Russia while Canada continues to receive aid and trade from it's new European partners. Britain even accuses the U.S. for starting the war as it escalates beyond reason.
Canadian Military Marches on Michigan
Much like how Russia took Crimea, Canada is interested in adding Michigan to it's borders for the sake of those people who show that they are really Canadians at heart.
In time, Canada may decide that the U.S. current climate of fascist leanings and rhetoric is a threat and then, much like Russia, decide to invade and liberate the U.S. from the fascist regime.
Whole populations would be relocated to Canada during the skirmishes while the world is aghast with the war.
With recent alienation and trade wars, the U.S. stands alone and finds itself accepting trade partners and energy supplements from Russia while Canada continues to receive aid and trade from it's new European partners. Britain even accuses the U.S. for starting the war as it escalates beyond reason.
Canadian Military Marches on Michigan
Pad_Foot
Wife knows I’m here
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Repeating History?
No one will know because Trump shut off any investigations of those who are foreign agents. Hmmm like Flynn was getting paid by Erdogan???
Prove Rachael wrong on her history
https://www.rawstory.com/amp/trump-ukraine-2671256219-2671256219
Are some Reps being paid off?? That would explain a LOT!! But? We will never know!
As a Californian? I’m singing “Oh Canada” loudly!!
No one will know because Trump shut off any investigations of those who are foreign agents. Hmmm like Flynn was getting paid by Erdogan???
Prove Rachael wrong on her history
https://www.rawstory.com/amp/trump-ukraine-2671256219-2671256219
Are some Reps being paid off?? That would explain a LOT!! But? We will never know!
As a Californian? I’m singing “Oh Canada” loudly!!
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