The 5-room dungeon in storytelling

[StillStunned]

In roleplaying games, there's a technique for designing adventures, or even campaigns: the 5-room dungeon.

Essentially, it breaks the plot down into five units: Guardian, Puzzle, Misdirection, Climax, Reward. In its most simple form, you might have a cave guarded by a pack of dogs. Inside is a puzzle or roleplaying challenge, which is about skills, for example a trap or a doorkeeper. Beyond that comes a red herring, or a fork in the tunnel. Then comes the boss fight, and after that the treasure and/or a plot hook.

It's very versatile, and it can be applied to dungeons, urban settings, social challenges, detective games or whole campaigns. The separate rooms can in fact also be broken down into smaller 5-room dungeons.

As I'm starting to plot a new story for my sword & sorcery characters Avilia and Sligh, I'm wondering whether the same setup could be used for writing fiction. Has anyone tried it before? What were the difficulties? Were there any design elements that needed changing compared with a roleplaying game?

 

[Euphony]

I went through a bunch of "systems" and all that research made me realize it's not the system it's mostly the fit.

I loathe Campbell's Hero's Journey yet know plenty who would have quit writing without it. (and more who look down on you if you don't place it on a pedestal)

If this (or some esoteric) story structuring concept clicks with you, for God's sake use it.

As far as cross-media, Save the Cat and Nutshell were screenplay systems adapted well to use in novel writing. They needed to have the reliance on "what the camera lens can see" bits shored up but big adaptations like that can be done. Just gotta be honest in strengths/weaknesses in your chosen storytelling format.

Systems are very much like the pantsers/outliners debate. Logical merits abound on both sides (hence my hybrid style) but whether they logically make sense doesn't hold water if they don't logically make sense and support you.

***

To you specific system, I'd compare/contrast a novel writing system you know well (but don't necessarily have to love) and see where they diverge.

As D&D is different media, I'd really think on what demands a D&D does/doesn't have to meet vs. a novel and shore up the light areas.

It's been forever since I D&Dd worth any salt but my gut says your characterizations will be bonkers comparatively. Plot will be heavy action regularly addressed (so balance push/pull. Give readers mental breaks/down time)

Character change/growth arc probably needs focus. The character stats/number system gets outsourced much of that labor in D&D. If you are telling a story, you'll want internal change. D&D might skew to hard on "solve this singular external problem. Ok, next problem. Ok, next problem. So, a series of plot escape rooms, light on the characters learning much of anything other than how to get out of that particular pickle if it happens again. (which, it shouldn't)

Good luck.

 

[AchtungNight]

I viewed my Rendezvous story as a D&D five room dungeon when I wrote it.

Five young actresses in their twenties and late teens I needed to guide into a lesbian poly relationship on the first day they started getting close to each other to film a movie together.

Each chapter was a structure event as you describe. The plot was the dungeon. The story scene settings- lobby, hallway, communal breakroom, the three featured dressing rooms, and the nightclub they visit at the end- were the parts of the dungeon. Keri Russell was a Rogue, Alicia Witt a Bard, Evan Rachel Wood a Fighter, and Erika Christensen a Cleric. All were proud sexual beings with secrets, adventuring together through the plot, having lustful thoughts about each other and different reactions to said thoughts. They were going to consummate their attractions, but getting there... it was a mess, to say the least.

The muses kept throwing challenges at me. And I'm honestly surprised Lit published it sometimes. I had to resolve various negative emotion traps through dialogue, parody, and the occasional monster encounter (Alicia's jerk ex and the club groper are examples of the latter, no better way to get female characters together than bonding over trashing jerks). I also had to weave in inside jokes from the film and the actresses' pasts, make each female lead a different kind of crazy... It was as much a hassle as fun. It's no wonder I named it after an Eve 6 song when I got to the final chapter. "Rendezvous, now I'm through with you!"

It got few votes when I put it out here, but the average scores on every chapter were above four before I turned off the uno-bomber trolls. Someone on AO3 called the story "the best fanfic they'd ever read, hands down." Others there also gave it praise. Critic trolls on another website aired negative views, but never mind them. Some changed their minds upon re-read.

Here's a link for interested fans- https://www.literotica.com/series/se/12984

Good luck with this structure. If you read my fic, hope you enjoy.

 

[SyleusSnow]

I've never been into D&D, but agree with @Euphony it's a different medium. Interesting it has a five-element structure because in fiction there's Freytag’s Pyramid, or the five-act structure.

Often it's best to keep it simple and just stick with the ol' Three-act structure. A more complex system is Story Grid (which has an excellent storywriting Youtube channel even if you don't subscribe to the story grid method).

 

[EmilyMiller]

I write outlines for more complicated stories. But I’ve never subscribed to any paint by numbers approach to plot. Of course naturally I reflect the structure found in many stories, but I don’t do this consciously,

Em

 

[StillStunned]

Here's a link for interested fans- https://www.literotica.com/series/se/12984

Good luck with this structure. If you read my fic, hope you enjoy.

Thanks, I'll take a look!

 

[AchtungNight]

Thanks, I'll take a look!

Heads up, it’s one of my longer projects. Early work too, so I was still learning a lot. Feedback appreciated.

The Passion series is the sequel slash flashback series concentrating on Erika’s past and ongoing conflicts with sexual development. My AO3 site (same username) has author’s notes.

 

[StillStunned]

Heads up, it’s one of my longer projects. Early work too, so I was still learning a lot. Feedback appreciated.

Then it will need to wait until I've finished the job I'm working on, I'm afraid.

 

[AchtungNight]

Then it will need to wait until I've finished the job I'm working on, I'm afraid.

Okay, well, your decision. But take your time and good luck.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This sounds like it'd work well for writing stories which feel like D&D adventures, and for some others too. But not all stories fit well into this particular structure.

Borrowed from this Tumblr post, this comic illustrates a common storytelling structure:



That maps to the 5-room dungeon structure reasonably well: panel #1 corresponds to Guardian (in this case the vending machine guarding drinks) and maybe Puzzle, #2 is Misdirection, #3 is Puzzle again and Climax, #4 is Reward.

This approach tends to be defined by conflicts: there is a dragon that must be defeated, the heroes defeat it.

But here's a different storytelling structure (kishōtenketsu, discussed further here and in the Tumblr linked above):


This four-act approach starts by introducing characters/etc., then develops them along the lines one might expect from the beginning, then introduces a new element that couldn't have been anticipated from the first two acts, and then brings that together with the first two acts. It focusses less on conflict and more on growth and change.

For instance, a romance I read recently used something like this structure for the heroine's character arc:

- Heroine doesn't get along with her over-protective mother, who she sees as having settled for a loveless marriage.
- She vows that she's not going to settle for that. She gets engaged to somebody her mother doesn't approve of, and eventually tells her mother "just because you're not loved doesn't mean it has to be the same for me"
- Instead of getting mad, mother tells her: actually, your father and I figured out early on that neither of us finds sex interesting, and he snores, so we sleep in separate rooms but that doesn't mean we don't love one another!
- Heroine realises that she's been reacting to somebody who tried to make her feel small and worthless by telling her "you're just like your mother", and comes to understand that this is something to be proud of, not something to fight.

Just about any story can be shoehorned into any narrative structure if we work hard enough. There's conflict in this storyline - heroine vs. mother, heroine vs. manipulative guy, heroine vs. her own self-image, and we could retroactively map those onto elements of the 5-room dungeon, or the first four-act structure shown above. But I don't think those would be a natural fit for planning this kind of story, where the real journey is less about "defeating" something and more about coming to understand the world in a new way that allows her to fit into it better. If we start from a mindset of "what must she defeat and how does she fight it?" we're probably not going to end up with that story where she triumphs by realising her mother doesn't need to be defeated.

In hindsight, I guess a couple of my later stories here are influenced by this kishōtenketsu structure, though it's not something I was conscious of when I wrote them. I don't think I'd have been able to write them if I'd been trying to fit them into the 5-room structure, or if I did it would've been despite that structure.

(And of course it's possible to write stories that use both kinds of structure in different places.)

 

[AchtungNight]

My story went like this- click for spoilers.

Chapter 1- Alicia is a Moral Guardian, shaming her boyfriend for flirting with Keri and Keri for being a bimbo simultaneously in the opening scene, without cause for the latter behavior. She has a lot of anger issues fueled by alcohol abuse and failed relationships. Keri decides to try being in the film with her anyway, hoping she can improve. It's an emotional drama with a lot of sex jokes directed by Mike Binder, there's bound to be a bit of chaos. Keri is also worried about being in the movie with Erika since she follows a controversial religion and it's easy to imagine such people being holier than thou types. But she puts her fears aside for the same reasons. She's getting back into acting, maybe it can go okay. Both girls are nice to her, Alicia at their second meeting and Erika at their first. Things calm down a little as they chat in the breakroom. But Erika is into crazy sex talk, Alicia tolerates it from her, and that excites Keri, who has a secret bisexual promiscuous past with several of her co-stars on Felicity and other acting projects. But of course she won't just jump into bed with girls she's just met who bother her a bit. Evan then joins the party and she's a blatant charmer, coming on to both Erika and Alicia. They give her a confused rejection and a shameful "you're a teenager and I'm straight" response respectively. Evan calms both reactions with "never mind, just kidding", then returns Erika's sex talk. Keri's fires are stoked further, and she has to go to her dressing room and masturbate to climax just to calm herself. This was my first masturbation scene and it got a lot of praise. Of course Keri ends up thinking about the other three girls and is enticed by a Felicity doppelganger in the mirror parody. Keri decides to try seducing her three co-leads if she can, see what happens.

Ch. 2- Keri returns to the breakroom. She learns Alicia stormed out a few minutes ago, angry at her boyfriend's breakup call. She talks to Evan and Erika a bit about their feelings regarding the movie. Erika reveals that she is bothered by having to confess to being an orgasm faker in the film. Evan also has mixed feelings regarding her sex life. Alicia's feelings are the biggest Puzzle, though. Erika reveals that she's known Alicia for a few years and seen her undergo a lot of failed relationships. She has played a lesbian in multiple films, but always rejects offscreen sexual relations with women with anger. Erika is bothered by it. Keri thinks Alicia just needs a better friend and leaves the breakroom to see if Alicia's in her dressing room. She is, and they chat. Keri learns that, like many geniuses, Alicia has volatile emotions and mood swings. But she appreciates people reaching out to her. Keri naturally offers sex, Alicia accepts because she decides she likes Keri. They hook up, Alicia enjoys her first full-on lesbian experience and returns to the breakroom with Keri afterwards.

Ch. 3- Misdirection time. Alicia enjoyed being with Keri, but she's not willing to reveal their relationship to the other two girls yet. Keri lets it slide, understanding she still has emotional issues in play. Then they break for lunch and Evan comes on to Keri strong, says she figured out Keri and Alicia slept together and she wants in on things. She reveals a past sexual history of her own- she's a hetero virgin who has rejected guys but not girls. Even though she's pretty sure she's into guys too, just needs to find the right one. Keri is attracted to Evan enough to share her own polyamorous past, she subsequently hooks up with Evan in her dressing room. They become allies and decide to seduce Erika and Alicia into the polyamory play.

Ch.4- Climax. Director Mike Binder almost catches on to Keri and Evan hooking up. He ultimately ignores his misgivings, he told them to get close, they are getting close, good. He has no evidence of sex and his suspicions are surely a joke. Keri and Evan are bothered, but still decide to move their plan forward. Alicia has left the set to think about things, Erika's in her dressing room, they go for Erika and blurt out their plan after they catch her doing nudist method acting. Erika reveals she's already heard Keri and Evan getting it on in the room next door to her dressing room. She's actually a secret swinger with a promiscuous past very similar to Keri's, including some even more shocking affairs. Including sexual harassment towards the actress Keri replaced- that actress quit the film over it. Erika was warned but allowed to stay because the director is playing the guy for whom she's supposed to fake affection and Mike's not sure he can find another actress willing to play the role. Erika has agreed to drop her nympho tendencies, but if Keri and Evan can welcome her attentions, hey, that works too! The religion is not a mask, but she also takes seriously the whole Scientologist "you ultimately regulate your own life" bit and doesn't let fanatics shame or control her. Keri is shocked by this in a good way, Evan likes it too. Erika reveals she hasn't gotten with Alicia, but is interested in Keri and Evan's plan to create a four way among them. The three girls end up in a sapphic triangle to consummate their feelings. It goes well. Then of course Alicia knocks on the door and learns what's going on, reacts with shame to everyone again- she's not into Erika's promiscuity, thinks Keri betrayed her with polyamory, and oh my, Evan is too young for this. The other three girls offer her happiness, but Alicia storms off even though she seems to recognize their earnestness. How to recover? Well, Erika has a cunning plan...

Ch. 5. Reward. Erika calls Alica as a friend, offers to discuss things with her, Keri, and Evan at a Soho nightclub they've visited. They've both enjoyed it, they can relax there and remind Alicia they're her friends as well, maybe lure her into the private meeting rooms above the club- she knows they exist, if they can just get through her mood swings... Keri, Evan, and Erika all are interested enough to try. Alicia is hesitant at first, even though she makes apologies for her past behavior. Then a club groper attacks Erika and makes things worse. Evan beats off the groper with taekwondo, her future boyfriend/husband Jamie Bell witnesses the altercation and tells the bouncer Alicia summons who the bad guy was. The bouncer gets rid of the groper and tells the girls to cool off. They do. Evan is attracted to Jamie, but of course they won't get with each other at their first meeting. She is asked by Erika to concentrate on the situation with her girlfriends over the newcomer, she agrees. Alicia is still hesitant, but ultimately agrees to be part of the polyamory once the other girls make clear they're doing it with or without her and "with" is more attractive to Alicia, who no longer wants to be alone. Swap orgy in a private room above the club is the final scene. All four leads have fun.



Feedback still appreciated on full story of course. Your choice when to read.

 

[GrushaVashnadze]

Here is my take on the five-room "arc":
1. Harmony exists.
2. Harmony is disrupted.
3. Struggle
4. Harmony is re-established, but things are not exactly the same as before.
5. Therefore, the world is transformed and redeemed.
This template can be re-cast in many ways, and has many possible variations; but it speaks deeply to the human condition, because it embodies both restoration and transformation – the two aspects of existence which all humanity, though in differing proportions, craves: that good things, when damaged, get restored; and that bad things get corrected, or made better. That is why we can call this sort of journey an “arc”: like a rainbow, it ends in a different place from where it begins, but on the same horizon.

This type of “arc” is evident in various different genres. Many of the greatest myths, legends and fairy tales take this form. Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, Rapunzel, Beauty and the Beast – the list goes on and on. This is perhaps why they get told over and over again through different media: theatre, ballet, opera and film.

There is no reason why smut cannot fit into this general definition of art. At a very basic level, the crudest stroke story can meet the above criterion of a well-balanced story arc, a journey of transformation:
1. Character likes fucking.
2. Character is dying for a fuck.
3. Character tries to get someone to fuck them.
4. They fuck.
5. They are happy at having fucked. End of story.

Does that mean that every stroke story is a “work of art”? Well, potentially, and in a limited sense, yes – because a good wank is also, though in a superficial and transient way, a multi-stage journey of self-transformation:
1. I like to come.
2. I’m feeling horny.
3. I stroke off.
4. I come.
5. That was fucking brilliant.

 

[Duleigh]

In roleplaying games, there's a technique for designing adventures, or even campaigns: the 5-room dungeon.

Essentially, it breaks the plot down into five units: Guardian, Puzzle, Misdirection, Climax, Reward. In its most simple form, you might have a cave guarded by a pack of dogs. Inside is a puzzle or roleplaying challenge, which is about skills, for example a trap or a doorkeeper. Beyond that comes a red herring, or a fork in the tunnel. Then comes the boss fight, and after that the treasure and/or a plot hook.

It's very versatile, and it can be applied to dungeons, urban settings, social challenges, detective games or whole campaigns. The separate rooms can in fact also be broken down into smaller 5-room dungeons.

As I'm starting to plot a new story for my sword & sorcery characters Avilia and Sligh, I'm wondering whether the same setup could be used for writing fiction. Has anyone tried it before? What were the difficulties? Were there any design elements that needed changing compared with a roleplaying game?

There already is a "five room dungeon" in storytelling. The rooms are named:
1. Exposition
2. Rising Action
3. Climax
4. Falling Action
5. Resolution

They work every time they're tried.

 

[SimonDoom]

Human brains gravitate toward schemes. We instinctively seem to want to believe that there's one particular, structured approach to getting where we want to go, whether it's losing weight, achieving mental health, getting into heaven, having better relationships, making more money, or writing better erotic stories.

I think the reality is that different methods work differently for different people. The best diet is the one you stick to. Whatever motivates you to write and to work at improving your craft is probably the best scheme for you.

 

[samhasstories]

I'm not a good plotter or outliner. I just write until I hit a wall, then I either go back and write down a different path, or I write my way over or through the wall. That's what I enjoy, but I wouldn't recommend it. So I tend to blanch at these sorts of structures. In reality I could probably benefit from their use, and I can certainly see how it would help to plan out a story, particularly a longer one.

 

[Duleigh]

I'm not a good plotter or outliner. I just write until I hit a wall, then I either go back and write down a different path, or I write my way over or through the wall. That's what I enjoy, but I wouldn't recommend it. So I tend to blanch at these sorts of structures. In reality I could probably benefit from their use, and I can certainly see how it would help to plan out a story, particularly a longer one.

Try this: Start with the end. Imagine where you want your characters to end up, try to picture everything about it. Maybe even write it out. Maybe it's two characters in bed making love. Now picture a starting point. Maybe he's a divorced cross country trucker and she's a sexually frustrated librarian.

Now let your imagination fly, your only requirement is to land with your two characters in bed making love. It could be a thoughtful drama, it could be a murder mystery. The trucker might have to travel through a world of wizards and dragons that she conjured up to rescue her - anything! It works for me when I slam into a wall.

 

[samhasstories]

Try this: Start with the end. Imagine where you want your characters to end up, try to picture everything about it. Maybe even write it out. Maybe it's two characters in bed making love. Now picture a starting point. Maybe he's a divorced cross country trucker and she's a sexually frustrated librarian.

Now let your imagination fly, your only requirement is to land with your two characters in bed making love. It could be a thoughtful drama, it could be a murder mystery. The trucker might have to travel through a world of wizards and dragons that she conjured up to rescue her - anything! It works for me when I slam into a wall.

That's a good exercise. It definitely will get the wheels moving, at least. The trouble with me is I tend to let my plan follow my writing, and not the other way around. Which is okay, I enjoy the process, and I enjoy seeing where it will go. But it's unlikely to go where I plan, if I plan. So I just tend not to plan.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Here is my take on the five-room "arc":
1. Harmony exists.
2. Harmony is disrupted.
3. Struggle
4. Harmony is re-established, but things are not exactly the same as before.
5. Therefore, the world is transformed and redeemed.
This template can be re-cast in many ways, and has many possible variations; but it speaks deeply to the human condition, because it embodies both restoration and transformation – the two aspects of existence which all humanity, though in differing proportions, craves: that good things, when damaged, get restored; and that bad things get corrected, or made better. That is why we can call this sort of journey an “arc”: like a rainbow, it ends in a different place from where it begins, but on the same horizon.

This type of “arc” is evident in various different genres. Many of the greatest myths, legends and fairy tales take this form. Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, Rapunzel, Beauty and the Beast – the list goes on and on. This is perhaps why they get told over and over again through different media: theatre, ballet, opera and film.

There is no reason why smut cannot fit into this general definition of art. At a very basic level, the crudest stroke story can meet the above criterion of a well-balanced story arc, a journey of transformation:
1. Character likes fucking.
2. Character is dying for a fuck.
3. Character tries to get someone to fuck them.
4. They fuck.
5. They are happy at having fucked. End of story.

Does that mean that every stroke story is a “work of art”? Well, potentially, and in a limited sense, yes – because a good wank is also, though in a superficial and transient way, a multi-stage journey of self-transformation:
1. I like to come.
2. I’m feeling horny.
3. I stroke off.
4. I come.
5. That was fucking brilliant.

That's how it's often done.

But I think reversing the order of the first two is often a good idea.

So instead of your:

1. Long, boring introduction where I explain I'm a pathetic wanker.
2. I’m feeling horny.
3. I stroke off.
4. I come.
5. That was fucking brilliant.

one can do:

1. I’m feeling horny as fuck.
3+2. I stroke off, noting what a loser I am.
4. I cum.
5. I bask in the afterglow.

 

[Duleigh]

That's a good exercise. It definitely will get the wheels moving, at least. The trouble with me is I tend to let my plan follow my writing, and not the other way around. Which is okay, I enjoy the process, and I enjoy seeing where it will go. But it's unlikely to go where I plan, if I plan. So I just tend not to plan.

There's nothing wrong with having fun and letting the story explore itself. I did that with Enchantress (8 stories, 413,886 words) I would just start writing and having fun with my characters and somehow the goal would reveal itself. It was great fun, and the stories are incredible. That's called being a "panzer" (flying by the seat of your pants)

 

[8letters]

Here are the parts to my stories:
1. Getting on the roller coaster

The characters meet in the situation that's going to bring them together.

2. The big climb

The characters are introduced, and their flaws and needs are presented. Together, they struggle through the situation.

3. Small drops and twists

The characters begin to have feelings towards each other, but things are not going smoothly. Lots of "three steps forward, one step back". The situation keeps throwing monkey wrenches into their plans.

4. The big drop

The big sex scene with the characters declaring their unending love for each other.

5. The end of the ride

The main characters start their life together as a couple.

 

[intim8]

My writing gets worse every time I look at another system. Don't even get me started on save the cat.