Israel/Hamas PB Tribal Fight

[Lazaran]

i don't personally know any Palestinians OR Israelis

but can all those defending Israel's ongoing civilian-negligent attacks support the enormous numbers of Palestinian deaths compared to Israeli ones?

i don't purport to know how Israel can root out hamas without such casualties when so many civilians are herded into such small areas that then get bombed, and i do want to see the end of hamas... but i cannot turn a blind eye to the massively uneven ratio of palestinian to israeli civilians. Even if the figures provided by the health ministry cannot be trusted (they produced lists with names that can be verified or not and these are mainly from hospitals' recordings of death counts though there are also outside sources), as far as i'm aware that count is incomplete, not taking into account bodies still buried beneath buildings. There are multiple blocks of collapsed apartments, for example, with no way yet of reaching anyone who lost their lives in the bombings.

even if you halve that health ministry number, when you add in all the unaccounted for still lost because there's no chance of recovering them yet when the populations are being herded one place to another, it's wildly disproportionate.

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...ilitary-offensive-gaza-since-oct7-2024-04-09/

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234159514/gaza-death-toll-30000-palestinians-israel-hamas-war

Sadly (and tragically), Hamas is counting / preying on your humanity to help them achieve their goals.



I am general the most peace loving / conflict resolution type person you will ever meet: Then something like 10/7 happens, and I steel myself and harden my heart to support the difficult work that must be done to address such evil and barbaric behavior.



I hate Hamas for putting me in this position. And my anger toward Hamas fuels my determination that their plan not succeed - even at the cost of some innocent lives among the population that purportedly supports them.



Ask yourself this:

If, after all of the death and suffering brought about by the Hamas terrorists’ October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation, (and the subsequent Israeli response), the Hamas terrorists are allowed to not only remain in power, but have their ranks swelled by the release of murderers from Israeli prisons, will that be an acceptable outcome???



Because, short of the intrusive rooting out of the Hamas terrorists from Gaza (and the inevitable and unavoidable accompanying death and destruction), that WILL be the outcome.



As tragic and painful as this conflict is proving to be, the Hamas reign of terror must end now (imho).

I can only hope that this taste of real death and suffering is enough to get the Palestinian people to choose a different path than Hanas, etc.

 

[Rightguide]

There’s growing concern on the left that the blatant antisemitism of the university encampments wasn’t just harmful to the Jews who were directly affected, it did serious damage to the cause of social justice in general.

When bigotry and intolerance are allowed to flourish among the radicals, it makes it harder for the rest of us to push back against white supremacy and misogyny.

The bigger problem is the institutions themselves have created propaganda centers that can turn out discord and terror forces that threaten the national security of the United States.

 

[Rightguide]

Random intentional destruction with zero regard for civilians is genocide, whether it is 25,000 casualties or 35,000 casualties. I don't understand why people here are jumping for joy that there are fewer casualties when the collective punishment ratio is still in excess of 10:1 (at least) for each Gazan death to each Israeli death. 7000+ documented child deaths by the UN. Does 7000 child deaths make you happy?

Bonus points if you can give an answer without shrugging your shoulders or spluttering "but...but..human shields!".

The simple answer is Gaza is basically an urban warfare zone. Most armies plan accordingly for this, they don't indiscriminately use artillery to level buildings. Only two armies in history have chosen a "raze by artillery" strategy, surprisingly, Nazi Germany is NOT one of those armies. Only the Soviet army (and their Russian descendants) and the Israeli army have adopted this amoral "civilian casualties be damned" approach.

Yet your grandfather's generation flattened 69 Japanese cities killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people without batting an eye.

 

[Lazaran]

i don't think anyone here has argued against that; rather, we all agree on that point

I hope you know that I’m being purposefully extreme in response to those who, imho, glossed right over 10/7 and went straight back into “blame Israel for everything” mode.



Also:

I can honestly say, than never in my entire lifetime have I seen the details of an event as horrific as 10/7 be so quickly forgotten / ignored / abandoned in favor of a demented counter-narrative that saddles Israel with the lion’s share of the blame for the current situation in Gaza.



The Hamas propaganda is working like a charm. - (I blame the 24/7 news cycle and social media, for the rise in the effectiveness of propaganda.)

 

[Lazaran]

The bigger problem is the institutions themselves have created propaganda centers that can turn out discord and terror forces that threaten the national security of the United States.

You’re a traitor and a threat to national security.

You and the far left have a lot in common.

STFU

 

[snailspace]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1791181279712477470

 

[Rightguide]

Netanyahu: Israel 'Not a Vassal State of the United States​

By Theodore Bunker | Wednesday, 15 May 2024 12:05 PM

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this week pushed back against President Joe Biden's warnings that an attack on the city of Rafah would be crossing a "red line" for the United States.

Israel and the U.S. are currently at odds over how to approach the city of Rafah in southern Gaza, where an estimated one million Palestinians have taken shelter. Netanyahu has said that Israel must enter Rafah, while Biden has described this as a "red line" for the U.S.

Netanyahu told his security Cabinet that Israel is "not a vassal state of the United States," in a heated exchange last week, Axios reported.

Netanyahu reportedly compared his situation with Biden to that of Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben Gurion when he declared Israel's independence despite the protests of the Secretary of State at the time, George Marshall.

More here: https://www.newsmax.com/us/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-rafah/2024/05/15/id/1164826/

So it looks like the war goes on to the last terrorist is killed.

 

[snailspace]

Dead civilians

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...e-killed-on-oct-7-bodies-being-held-by-hamas/

 

[snailspace]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1791096983417172417